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SedesDomi
Guest
The goal of yoga is also to commune with the Personal God. Only Advaitans see the impersonal Brahman as the goal.
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chrisb
Guest
You will know them by their fruit… not by their practice.
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Mickey
Guest
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SedesDomi
Guest
Is monasticism a ‘Hindu’ practice?
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Mickey
Guest
There is zen and hindu and buddhist and all types of monasticism. What is your point?
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SedesDomi
Guest
You seem to be saying that yoga is evil, because Hindus practice yoga. Is that correct?
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Mickey
Guest
I never said that “yoga is evil”. Please do not put words in my mouth. I am simply saying that it is not compatible with Catholicism or Orthodoxy. I have much experience with the subject but I do not intend to go into much detail on this forum–you can chalk it up to my opinion.
If you like yoga–by all means–knock yourself out.
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chrisb
Guest
You seem to be suggesting that quieting the passions through ascesis other than the cultural expressions of Greco-Roma is not compatible with Christianity.I never said that “yoga is evil”. Please do not put words in my mouth. I am simply saying that it is not compatible with Catholicism or Orthodoxy. I have much experience with the subject but I do not intend to go into much detail on this forum–you can chalk it up to my opinion.
If you like yoga–by all means–knock yourself out.
The quotes you posted conflate hindu-metaphysics with the practice of Yoga. I find this questionable since the early Church seems to have no problem using Greek Metaphysics to explain the Trinity. Perhaps we could say that, like the early Church, we are purifying the pagan practice of yoga by recognizing it’s ascetic value.
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Mickey
Guest
I suppose you could say whatever you like. I have never seen yoga to work compatibly with Catholicism or Orthodoxy–in fact–I have always seen quite the opposite (introduction to new age or hinduistic spirituality).
And I have never seen any writings from Sacred Scripture or Sacred Tradition or the Church Fathers praising the practice of yoga in any form. But I have seen many justifications from Catholic nuns and laity.
Perhaps you are different. I hope so.
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chrisb
Guest
I know that early practices of Hesychasts included deep breathing techiques with navel-gazing very reminiscent to yogic practices of the day. By the 14th Century on Mount Athos the terms Hesychasm and Hesychast refer to the practice and to the practitioner of a method of mental ascesis that involves the use of the Jesus Prayer assisted by certain psychophysical techniques. If you really think these practices evolved outside of the influence of eastern yogic practices I think you are fooling yourself.
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LDNCatholic
Guest
Good for you. However, the Church has advised that we do not seek to add a spiritual facet to yogic exercises, that includes using the Hindu methods of meditation. I am going to obey the Church on this one, I shall continue to stretch using the yogic positions within my martial arts, I will not add spirituality on top of this.
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Mickey
Guest
I am aware of hesychasm and the practice of the Jesus Prayer. It is an ancient form of Christian prayer as it relates to apophatic theology and the nous. These Holy men experienced the uncreated light of Jesus Christ. If you really think that these practices were aped from hinduistic yogic practices, I think you are extremely deluded.
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chrisb
Guest
Tell me, how does one ‘use Hindu methods of meditation’? What are Hindu methods of meditation?
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LDNCatholic
Guest
Meditating upon the Aum is one such example. Like it or not, anybody who has practiced yoga for some time must admit that many classes have people who talk about chakras, prana, nirvana etc. These are not Christian concepts.
If one can sufficiently separate Hindu spirituality from the yogic asanas, and chooses to integrate it within a Christian prayer life, great. If however one is trying to create a syncretic Hindu-Christian spirituality, well, I don’t need to give my opinion there, we all know that the Church will frown upon such things.
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codebilly
Guest
** What is Catholic Yoga?**
Yoga is a general term as previously mentioned on the posts in this thread. While technically it means union or yoking, that is not its principle definition in practice.
The word Yoga is primarily used not in connection with Astanga Yoga, but rather in context of the 3 principle Margas (paths) described in the sacred Hindu text, the Bhagavad Gita (Song of God)
For those not familiar, the primary personages in the Bhagavad Gita are Krsna and Arjuna. The Hindus believe that Krsna is God and Arjuna represent ‘humanity’ \
Krsna/God describes Arjuna various ways in which He can be approached
He describes 3 principle Yogas. They are Jnana, Karma, and Bhakti, meaning Knowledge, Works, and Love/Devotion respectively.
Krsna tells Arjuna that Love is the highest path. These paths are in fact given in the Divine Life of Jesus Christ.
Now where are the Yogas, or Margas described in the Gospels and New Testament?
One must understand first the meaning of the Gospel of St. John, in the proclamation of “The Word was Made Flesh”. The Church fathers proclaimed again and again, the ALL TRUTH may be found in the Life of Christ. And this is a fact! And therefore, “Word Made Flesh” really summarizes the beauty of Our Lord Jesus Christ’s revelation.
He chooses not to teach so much by lofty philosophical discourse, but rather by His Divine Life AND those He chose to assist Him in His plan of salvation!
Hence "Word made Flesh MEANS that the revealed Truth is expressed as Lila … that is, personifications of philosophical expression.
In St. Peter and James, we see an emphasis on works, and hence they express the path of Karma yoga, a way of works and actions as a means to approach and serve our Lord.
And in St. Paul, we see and emphasis on Jnana, Knowledge of God. It is interesting to note that the protestants place so much emphasis on bible study, with significant influence of St. Paul/
Therefore, when we look to** Mary and St. John the Evangelist**, we see the expression of Love and Devotion, the path of Bhakti. And it is a simple and humble path not needing many words. And Hence, Our Blessed is in fact the embodiment and personification of Love and Devotion to God itself! But above bhakti is association with her person which we can freely have in the prayerful recitation of the Most Holy Rosary.
Now we are prepared to properly read the Holy Bible. Using the sloka (formula) of St. John, “the Word was made flesh”, the entire life of Jesus comes fully to light. We see that St. John the Baptist , … the forerunner, is the personification of Tapas yoga, the path of renunciation, and this path does in fact precede advancing our walk with Christ . We understand the water is the cleansing of the flesh.
We can in fact see the Bhagavad Gita 2:62-63 which says:
While contemplating the objects of the senses, a person develops attachment for them, and from such attachment lust develops, and from lust anger arises. From anger, delusion arises, and from delusion bewilderment of memory. When memory is bewildered, intelligence is lost, and from lost intelligence, comes bondage and death.
is depicted in the Passion of Christ in so many characters, such as Judas a personification of greed/lust, the pharisees as anger, pilate as clouded judgement and delusion, bewilderment and lost intelligence among torturers of Christ.
All Truth is contained in the Life of Christ Jesus, the Savior of this world and every world and beyond!
Yoga is a general term as previously mentioned on the posts in this thread. While technically it means union or yoking, that is not its principle definition in practice.
The word Yoga is primarily used not in connection with Astanga Yoga, but rather in context of the 3 principle Margas (paths) described in the sacred Hindu text, the Bhagavad Gita (Song of God)
For those not familiar, the primary personages in the Bhagavad Gita are Krsna and Arjuna. The Hindus believe that Krsna is God and Arjuna represent ‘humanity’ \
Krsna/God describes Arjuna various ways in which He can be approached
He describes 3 principle Yogas. They are Jnana, Karma, and Bhakti, meaning Knowledge, Works, and Love/Devotion respectively.
Krsna tells Arjuna that Love is the highest path. These paths are in fact given in the Divine Life of Jesus Christ.
Now where are the Yogas, or Margas described in the Gospels and New Testament?
One must understand first the meaning of the Gospel of St. John, in the proclamation of “The Word was Made Flesh”. The Church fathers proclaimed again and again, the ALL TRUTH may be found in the Life of Christ. And this is a fact! And therefore, “Word Made Flesh” really summarizes the beauty of Our Lord Jesus Christ’s revelation.
He chooses not to teach so much by lofty philosophical discourse, but rather by His Divine Life AND those He chose to assist Him in His plan of salvation!
Hence "Word made Flesh MEANS that the revealed Truth is expressed as Lila … that is, personifications of philosophical expression.
In St. Peter and James, we see an emphasis on works, and hence they express the path of Karma yoga, a way of works and actions as a means to approach and serve our Lord.
And in St. Paul, we see and emphasis on Jnana, Knowledge of God. It is interesting to note that the protestants place so much emphasis on bible study, with significant influence of St. Paul/
Therefore, when we look to** Mary and St. John the Evangelist**, we see the expression of Love and Devotion, the path of Bhakti. And it is a simple and humble path not needing many words. And Hence, Our Blessed is in fact the embodiment and personification of Love and Devotion to God itself! But above bhakti is association with her person which we can freely have in the prayerful recitation of the Most Holy Rosary.
Now we are prepared to properly read the Holy Bible. Using the sloka (formula) of St. John, “the Word was made flesh”, the entire life of Jesus comes fully to light. We see that St. John the Baptist , … the forerunner, is the personification of Tapas yoga, the path of renunciation, and this path does in fact precede advancing our walk with Christ . We understand the water is the cleansing of the flesh.
We can in fact see the Bhagavad Gita 2:62-63 which says:
While contemplating the objects of the senses, a person develops attachment for them, and from such attachment lust develops, and from lust anger arises. From anger, delusion arises, and from delusion bewilderment of memory. When memory is bewildered, intelligence is lost, and from lost intelligence, comes bondage and death.
is depicted in the Passion of Christ in so many characters, such as Judas a personification of greed/lust, the pharisees as anger, pilate as clouded judgement and delusion, bewilderment and lost intelligence among torturers of Christ.
All Truth is contained in the Life of Christ Jesus, the Savior of this world and every world and beyond!
M
Mickey
Guest
There is no such creature. Syncretism is a heresy!
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chrisb
Guest
My friend neither was Logos a Jewish term until it was used by St. John the Theologian…
Amen, Amin, and Aum are all from the same root word. When our Lord said “my yoke is easy…” he was saying “my yoga is easy…”
Chakras are a doctrine of Raja Yoga and not Ashtanga-Vinyasa so the point is moot.
Pranayama is simply breathing exercises not unlike those practiced by the Hesychasts of Mount Athos, who where Christain Monastics.
Define Nirvana… and we will know why you have trouble with this also.
Justin Martyr once claim Plato a Christian because of his reason (i.e. Logic). In the Greek Church he is still recognized as one of the Greek Divines (i.e. a Saint). I can appreciate the risks and the dangers inherent in syncretism but I must acknowledge the Christianity is far broader than many of us are willing to admit.
The frontiers of the Church are found within our heart. Her true and precise borders circumscribe only that which is good and pure in her members, both the just and sinners, leaving out all that is impure, even in the just; it is our own behavior, in our own lives, in our own hearts that the Church and the world, Christ and Belial, light and darkness, confront one another. What we find good and true in others we cannot reject but must recognize and embrace as true and thus Christian.
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Mickey
Guest
Ouch. This is terribly syncretist. So very sad.
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Mickey
Guest
“Christian Yoga.”
Hindu yoga has been known in the West for many decades, and especially in America it has given rise to innumerable cults and also to a popular form of physical therapy which is supposedly non-religious in its aims. Nearly twenty years ago a French Benedictine monk wrote of his experiences in making Yoga a “Christian” discipline; the description that follows is taken from his book.
Hindu Yoga is a discipline that presupposes a rather abstemious, disciplined life, and is composed of breath control and certain physical postures which produce a state of relaxation in which one meditates, usually with the help of a mantra or sacred utterance which aids concentration. The essence of Yoga is not the discipline itself, but the meditation which is its end. The author is correct when he writes: “The aims of Hindu Yoga are spiritual. It is tantamount to treason to forget this and retain only the purely physical side of this ancient discipline, to see in it no more than a means towards bodily health or beauty.” To this it should be added that the person who uses Yoga only for physical well-being is already disposing himself towards certain spiritual attitudes and even experiences of which he is undoubtedly unaware; of this more will be said below.
The same author then continues: “The art of the yogi is to establish himself in a complete silence, to empty himself of all thoughts and illusions, to discard and forget everything but this one idea: man’s true self is divine; it is God, and the rest is silence.”
Continued…
Hindu yoga has been known in the West for many decades, and especially in America it has given rise to innumerable cults and also to a popular form of physical therapy which is supposedly non-religious in its aims. Nearly twenty years ago a French Benedictine monk wrote of his experiences in making Yoga a “Christian” discipline; the description that follows is taken from his book.
Hindu Yoga is a discipline that presupposes a rather abstemious, disciplined life, and is composed of breath control and certain physical postures which produce a state of relaxation in which one meditates, usually with the help of a mantra or sacred utterance which aids concentration. The essence of Yoga is not the discipline itself, but the meditation which is its end. The author is correct when he writes: “The aims of Hindu Yoga are spiritual. It is tantamount to treason to forget this and retain only the purely physical side of this ancient discipline, to see in it no more than a means towards bodily health or beauty.” To this it should be added that the person who uses Yoga only for physical well-being is already disposing himself towards certain spiritual attitudes and even experiences of which he is undoubtedly unaware; of this more will be said below.
The same author then continues: “The art of the yogi is to establish himself in a complete silence, to empty himself of all thoughts and illusions, to discard and forget everything but this one idea: man’s true self is divine; it is God, and the rest is silence.”
Continued…
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Mickey
Guest
This idea, of course, is not Christian but pagan, but the aim of “Christian Yoga” is to use the technique of Yoga for a different spiritual end, for a “Christian” meditation. The object of the Yoga technique, in this view, is to make one relaxed, content unthinking, and passive or receptive to spiritual ideas and experiences. “As soon as you have taken up the posture, you will feel your body relaxing and a feeling of general well-being will establish itself in you.” The exercises produce an “extraordinary sense of calm.” “To begin with, one gets the feeling of a general unwinding, of a well-being taking hold, of a euphoria that will, and in fact does, last. If one’s nerves have been tense and overstrung, the exercises calm them, and fatigue disappears in a little time.” “The goal of all his [the yogi’s] efforts is to silence the thinking self in him by shutting his eyes to every kind of enticement.” The euphoria which Yoga brings “could well be called a ‘state of health’ that allows us to do more and do it better on the human plane to begin with, and on the Christian religious, spiritual plane afterwards. The most apt word to describe it is contentedness, a contentedness that inhabits body and soul and predisposes us… toward the spiritual life.” One’s whole personality can be changed by it: “Hatha Yoga influences character to the good. One man, after some weeks of practice, admits he no longer knows himself, and everyone notices a change in his bearing and reaction. He is gentler and more understanding. He faces experience calmly. He is content… His whole personality has been altered and he himself feels it steadying and opening out; from this there arises an almost permanent condition of euphoria, of ‘contentedness.’”
But all of this is only a preparation for a “spiritual” aim, which begins to make itself felt in a very short time: “By becoming contemplative in a matter of weeks, my prayer had been given a particular and novel cast.” Becoming extraordinarily calm, the author notices “the ease I felt in entering into prayer, in concentrating on a subject.” One becomes “more receptive to impulses and promptings from heaven.” “The practice of Yoga makes for increased suppleness and receptivity, and thus for openness to those personal exchanges between God and the soul that mark the way of the mystical life.” Even for the “apprentice yogi” prayer becomes “sweet” and “embraces the whole of man.” One is relaxed and “ready to tremble at the touch of the Holy Ghost, to receive and welcome what God in his Goodness thinks fit to let us experience.” “We shall be making our being ready to be taken, to be seized — and this is surely one of the forms, in fact the highest of Christian contemplation.” “Every day the exercises, and indeed the whole ascetic discipline of my Yoga, make it easier for the grace of Christ to flow in me. I feel my hunger for God growing, and my thirst for righteousness, and my desire to be a Christian in the full strength of the word.”
continued…
But all of this is only a preparation for a “spiritual” aim, which begins to make itself felt in a very short time: “By becoming contemplative in a matter of weeks, my prayer had been given a particular and novel cast.” Becoming extraordinarily calm, the author notices “the ease I felt in entering into prayer, in concentrating on a subject.” One becomes “more receptive to impulses and promptings from heaven.” “The practice of Yoga makes for increased suppleness and receptivity, and thus for openness to those personal exchanges between God and the soul that mark the way of the mystical life.” Even for the “apprentice yogi” prayer becomes “sweet” and “embraces the whole of man.” One is relaxed and “ready to tremble at the touch of the Holy Ghost, to receive and welcome what God in his Goodness thinks fit to let us experience.” “We shall be making our being ready to be taken, to be seized — and this is surely one of the forms, in fact the highest of Christian contemplation.” “Every day the exercises, and indeed the whole ascetic discipline of my Yoga, make it easier for the grace of Christ to flow in me. I feel my hunger for God growing, and my thirst for righteousness, and my desire to be a Christian in the full strength of the word.”
continued…
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