Ask A Baptist Pastor

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reformissionary said:
Good question. Only if my interpretation is the correct one. I know by studying the Scripture, being open question my answers, etc. I don’t just read things I agree with, for example. Right now I’m reading more about RCism than things I believe. I’m working through things I’ve never had to as a Protestant. That’s good for me, and helps me to see what the Scriptures teach rather than taking it for granted. I encourage you as Catholics to do the same.
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Actually I have - to some extent - And that is why I am Catholic.
It is also why I am here to learn more about Catholicism as well as other faiths.

By the by - I know you are getting hammered but I like you style in many cases.

The thing is that in the end, all of these questions come down to “Authority” and whether that Authority is in the hands of the individual independently or in the hands of “The church” collectively.

I honestly believe that as you study more about Catholicism, not just the doctrines, but how these doctrines developed, how the Church evolved from the “Mustard seed” of Apostolic times, you will begin to see that our obedience to The Church, is not some sort of “cop-out”. Rather it is the most fulfilling way to Follow Christ in the Unity that he prayed for in John:
John 17:20-21
20 "I do not pray for these only, but also for those who believe in me through their word, 21 that they may all be one; even as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

Peace
James
 
reformissionary said:
That’s a great question and I appreciate you asking it. I’ll answer, and I’d like you to answer your own question for me too. What would it take for you to convert to Protestantism?

There are many hangups for me. I imagine a number of those would have to be dealt with sufficiently.

It’s Scripture that keeps Protestants from Catholicism. So I’d have to see the entire system of Popes and Catholic leadership from one brief passage in Mt 16. I’d have to see Scripture pointing to an equal authority outside itself. I’d have to see praying to Saints from Scripture. I’d have to see baptizing infants in Scripture. I’d have to see real presence from Scripture. Etc.
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Many Protestant ministers (including Baptists) have been able to get over those same hangups, Rev. Steve. This might help you see why one such came to the Catholic conclusion:

saintjoe.com/prodinfo.asp?number=8500
 
mrclm said:
It is inconsistent. If it was good enough for 1500ish years there was no need to codify it at that point because everybody already knew about it. Or there is the alternative, which I believe is more likely.
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It was codified in response to Protestant error.
To say that by my thinking the Bible is infallible therefore the church must be infallible is a false dichotomy.
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Sorry? :confused:

No - the Bible proceeds from the Church - the Church and the Bible are not opposed to one another. If the Bible is “infallible” (actually, it’s inerrant - the adjective “infallible” can only refer to living persons) then its source must also be without error - and since its source is the Holy Tradition of the Apostles (which also includes everything that we know about Mary, and everything that we know about the authority of the Church and of the Pope) then we either have to conclude that the Holy Tradition is without error, or else that the Bible may contain errors.

We can’t have it both ways.
 
I feel I should say publicly that my other thread on John 6 was shut down because the moderator said I lacked time to respond. That is a ridiculous claim that I never made. I said I couldn’t respond to EVERYTHING. I comment three times there this morning! I spent a lot of time and was working on more responses when the thread was closed. I was working backwards one comment at a time to be as complete as I had time to be. Yet it was closed.

Are Catholics not open on their own forums to engage with folks who don’t live every moment here? I guess you have a strategy to overload the Protestant with so much they can’t respond to everything and then shut them down for not doing so?

Ironically the moderator also punished me for saying people were being rude to me. How is shutting down my thread for my inability to respond to dozens and dozens of comments not rude? If you all don’t want to be called rude, stop being rude. There have been a few of you who have gone out of your way to be friendly to me and even send me private messages apologizing for how I’ve been treated. I deeply appreciate that.

Catholics, if you think that is fine…whatever. That would be a real pity. It sounds like the hawks are already circling over me and my time here is limited. That isn’t what I want or intended to happen. Hopefully some of you will realize this injustice and message the moderators and tell them that is unacceptable. Thanks.
 
reformissionary said:
Profitable doesn’t mean sufficient or insufficient. It means profitable. Useful. It’s not a word intended to point one way or another. “God-breathed” on the other hand, is crucial. Whatever isn’t God-breathed is inferior and fallible. You would agree, no?
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Seems to me that Jesus breathed on the Apostles when He stated:

21 He said therefore to them again: Peace be to you. As the Father hath sent me, I also send you. 22 When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them: Receive ye the Holy Ghost. 23 Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.

Sound pretty God-breathed to me. Notice how Jesus says “as the Father has sent me. I also send you”? Notice the passing on of Authority from the Father, to Jesus, to the Apostles?
 
reformissionary said:
I feel I should say publicly that my other thread on John 6 was shut down because the moderator said I lacked time to respond. That is a ridiculous claim that I never made. I said I couldn’t respond to EVERYTHING. I comment three times there this morning! I spent a lot of time and was working on more responses when the thread was closed. I was working backwards one comment at a time to be as complete as I had time to be. Yet it was closed.

Are Catholics not open on their own forums to engage with folks who don’t live every moment here? I guess you have a strategy to overload the Protestant with so much they can’t respond to everything and then shut them down for not doing so?

Ironically the moderator also punished me for saying people were being rude to me. How is shutting down my thread for my inability to respond to dozens and dozens of comments not rude? If you all don’t want to be called rude, stop being rude. There have been a few of you who have gone out of your way to be friendly to me and even send me private messages apologizing for how I’ve been treated. I deeply appreciate that.

Catholics, if you think that is fine…whatever. That would be a real pity. It sounds like the hawks are already circling over me and my time here is limited. That isn’t what I want or intended to happen. Hopefully some of you will realize this injustice and message the moderators and tell them that is unacceptable. Thanks.
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Dancelittleewok said:
ENFORCEMENT

  1. *]Reports of infractions of these rules should be submitted to the moderators by the “Report Post” feature. Just click the http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_cak/report.gif image in the problematic post. Use of the private messaging system for problem reports is discouraged.
    *]Material that violates the rules may be edited or deleted without prior notice.
    *]Judgments by the Moderators can be discussed with the Moderators via private messaging but not on the board itself. Decisions of the Moderators may be appealed to the Super Moderators and Admins.
    *]Users who persistently violate the rules will be banned.

    Source

    Please discuss how you feel about the mod’s decision privately as per Forum Rules.
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  1. Fair enough.
 
reformissionary said:
I feel I should say publicly that my other thread on John 6 was shut down because the moderator said I lacked time to respond. That is a ridiculous claim that I never made. I said I couldn’t respond to EVERYTHING. I comment three times there this morning! I spent a lot of time and was working on more responses when the thread was closed. I was working backwards one comment at a time to be as complete as I had time to be. Yet it was closed.

Are Catholics not open on their own forums to engage with folks who don’t live every moment here? I guess you have a strategy to overload the Protestant with so much they can’t respond to everything and then shut them down for not doing so?

Ironically the moderator also punished me for saying people were being rude to me. How is shutting down my thread for my inability to respond to dozens and dozens of comments not rude? If you all don’t want to be called rude, stop being rude. There have been a few of you who have gone out of your way to be friendly to me and even send me private messages apologizing for how I’ve been treated. I deeply appreciate that.

Catholics, if you think that is fine…whatever. That would be a real pity. It sounds like the hawks are already circling over me and my time here is limited. That isn’t what I want or intended to happen. Hopefully some of you will realize this injustice and message the moderators and tell them that is unacceptable. Thanks.
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Has it ever crossed your mind that what you’ve held as True, was taught, could possibly be wrong? I’m not trying to be rude. This is an honest question. When are you gonna let that guard down Steve and let the Holy Spirit lead you to the fullness of Truth?
 
jam070406 said:
Has it ever crossed your mind that what you’ve held as True, was taught, could possibly be wrong? I’m not trying to be rude. This is an honest question. When are you gonna let that guard down Steve and and learn to believe that what I have held as True, what has taught to me, can not possibly be wrong?
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That is how someone who disagrees with you is going to read what you wrote.
 
tjm190 said:
That is how someone who disagrees with you is going to read what you wrote.
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Maybe, if we weren’t on a Catholic forum. And we weren’t speaking specifically to one person. And there weren’t many others who have witnessed to this one person that they were once where he was.
 
Loboto-Me said:
Seems to me that Jesus breathed on the Apostles when He stated:

21 He said therefore to them again: Peace be to you. As the Father hath sent me, I also send you. 22 When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them: Receive ye the Holy Ghost. 23 Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.

Sound pretty God-breathed to me. Notice how Jesus says “as the Father has sent me. I also send you”? Notice the passing on of Authority from the Father, to Jesus, to the Apostles?
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  1. There’s no such thing as “pretty God-breathed.” It is or it isn’t, and the distinction is crucial to being the church or falsely assume you are the church.
  2. With that you could say you or I would be just as authoritative as the Pope. We all have the Ghost, if we are His.
  3. This is more directly to and about the Apostles. They had the authority through their role and in the power of the Spirit as Apostles (eyewitnesses) to give us Scripture. The church after the Apostles does not have the same sense of authority to write Scripture or something equal. And Scripture doesn’t say they/we do.
  4. Forgiving/Retaining sins are perfect-tense verbs – past completed action with continuing results. So I we don’t go about saying, God has given us the authority to forgive sins! We instead say to non-Christians, If you believe in Jesus your sins are forgiven. If not they are retained. The Scriptures defines forgiveness, we now have the authority to proclaim it.
 
jam070406 said:
Has it ever crossed your mind that what you’ve held as True, was taught, could possibly be wrong? I’m not trying to be rude. This is an honest question. When are you gonna let that guard down Steve and let the Holy Spirit lead you to the fullness of Truth?
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Sure. But the testimony of Scripture through His church and His Word answer my questions. How about you? That question is just as valid for Catholics, and doesn’t really get our conversation anywhere.
 
Betterave said:
lol… good point!
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Not really. Because that’s not at all what I wrote. And it also seems to imply that you and your friend don’t believe in absolute Truth and that the Holy Spirit is not capable of leading one to it if they are open to it.
 
mrclm said:
You haven’t answered the question Bob. Where in Scripture do the Apostles venerate Mary for instance? You list a bunch of people who support your argument, I can do the same who don’t. That’s why I went back to the Bible - you know, the Word of God.
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The Angel Gabriel greeted Mary with a greeting that in those days was reserved for divine royalty - “Hail, Caesar!” (Caesar was believed to be the first-born son of the god Zeus, and thus, himself semi-divine) – which is why Mary was confused and searched her mind to understand how it was that she had received such a greeting as this.

“Hail” was not the first-century equivalent of “Hi, there!” 😉
 
jam070406 said:
Maybe, if we weren’t on a Catholic forum. And we weren’t speaking specifically to one person. And there weren’t many others who have witnessed to this one person that they were once where he was.
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We could be in Saint Peter’s Basilica, telling people that they should abandon their preconceptions and just believe what you believe never gets you anywhere. And there are more then a few Catholics who ‘saw the light’ and joined up with other sects- should they be able to tell all of us to ‘to open ourselves’ to the light of other faiths? Should we respect those calls?

He probably believes as strongly as you do that he has been brought to where he is by God.
 
tjm190 said:
We could be in Saint Peter’s Basilica, telling people that they should abandon their preconceptions and just believe what you believe never gets you anywhere. And there are more then a few Catholics who ‘saw the light’ and joined up with other sects- should they be able to tell all of us to ‘to open ourselves’ to the light of other faiths? Should we respect those calls?
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I didn’t say “believe what I believe” I said allow the Holy Spirit to guide him to the FULLNESS OF TRUTH. Which, if you are Catholic, you know resides in the Catholic Church. Truth is not relative and the Holy Spirit is not the author of chaos.
 
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