Ask A Buddhist

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I don’t understand the manifold argument because I’m not so learned but I don’t think the number line is a perfect anologue. Causality of events depend on prior events so I think recursion is an analogue that demonstrates that an intial state is needed for the infinite cycle to ever take place.
But your recursion analogy commits the fallacy of begging the question because such functions are only defined with a starting point anyways, which is what you are trying to prove to be true (through analogy) of causality. The argument assumes its conclusion as part of its premise.
 
Read my post one more time. I said there didn’t appear to be a conflict in two distinct areas, morality and concentration. After that I I started a new sentence listing all the areas where I did see a conflict. Would it have helped you if I had put a line brake between the two sentences? I realize that sometimes people find it difficult to read from a computer screen.

I hope this clears things up.
Yes thats what I felt was amusing. Sorry for the laughing, sometimes thinks just hit me funny.

The concentration for sure. When as a Christian all of our concentration should be on Christ. How could there not be a conflict there, when in buddism there is no God?
 
How can you follow the ten commandments when you never made it past the first one?:confused:

I AM the LORD YOUR GOD.
He never said to abandon the Ten commandments, but to use Buddhist ethics to help understand how to live a better life.

Just as it says in Nostra Aetate paragraph 2:

“The Catholic Church rejects nothing that is true and holy in these religions. She regards with sincere reverence those ways of conduct and of life, those precepts and teachings which, though differing in many aspects from the ones she holds and sets forth, nonetheless often reflect a ray of that Truth which enlightens all men.”

Is it so much of a stretch to hold that some of the ethical principles found in Buddhism which are compatible with the Catholic Church’s moral theology could be helpful in developing a better understanding of ethics?

And no, you are not the Lord Our God.

(Sorry. I couldn’t resist making a little joke :p)
 
Okay, I was wrong. I’m going to ask a lot more questions. 😊
I’m afraid you are mistaken here. The more usual translation of sukhavati is “Pure Land”, and it is not located on the planet Earth, which is an impure land. It is situated on a different planet many light years away. The mention of the Amitabha Buddha in your text is a marker of a Pure Land text. You do not say, but I suspect it is taken from one or other of the Pure Land sutras. See Pure Land Buddhism for a fuller description.
Is “Pure Land” and “Nirvana” the same thing?
To avoid all evil: Basically follow the Ten Commandments. There are only five points for lay Buddhists:
  • to avoid injury to living things.
  • to avoid taking what is not given.
  • to avoid sensual misconduct.
  • to avoid false and malicious speech.
  • to avoid intoxicants.
to cultivate good: “Love others as you love yourself.” – Bhadramayakaravyakarana sutra, 91
According, the one I just bolded in purple, does “Sensual misconduct” entail “sexual immorality”? What would be example of this in Buddhism? I can already tell rape is a form of breaking this and probably adultery.

But what are Buddhism’s stance on pre-martial sex, masturbation, sex involving more than 2 people, homosexuality, and certain types of sex (i.e anal, oral)?
 
Lets see, no God, no forgiveness, no prayer, no grace from God, no eternal life. No salvation. whats left?
There is no sin in Buddhism, so there is no need for forgiveness of sin. In Buddhism, if you do the crime then you do the time:

Neither in the sky nor in mid-ocean,
nor in a cave in the mountains,
is there a place where a man
can escape his evil deed.

– Dhammapada 9:12

Prayer does exist in Buddhism: you can pray to a god if you want to win the lottery, or something material. Prayer to a god will not gain you enlightenment. That is something you have to do yourself.

Grace from God will not get you into nirvana. How can it? God has not yet attained nirvana for Himself.

Eternal life is precisely what Buddhists want to avoid. Eternal life is eternal suffering, even in the heavens. Remember that the heavens, like the hells, are of finite duration, so even there death is present. The point of Buddhism is to escape from the eternal round of rebirths and enter into nirvana. See my post #214 in this thread for the Assu sutta – ‘The Ocean of Tears’.

Salvation is a Christian concept. The nearest thing Buddhism has is enlightenment. Judging by His actions, Jesus was close to enlightenment, hence his status as a likely Bodhisattva. Unfortunately, judging by His actions, YHWH is a long way from enlightenment. Just count up the number of people and animals He kills, directly or indirectly.

What is left is the diagnosis of our problem and the way for us to resolve it:
  • The problem is suffering.
  • The cause of the problem is selfish desire.
  • If we eliminate selfish desire then we eliminate the problem of suffering.
  • The way to eliminate selfish desire is to follow the Path.
And how can tips help you into leading a moral life?
They helped the Buddha, and all those after him who have also attained enlightenment. Buddhism works.

Buddhism is not Christianity. To a Buddhist the Bible is grossly insufficient because it does not mention nirvana even once. It is not useful to judge one religion by the criteria of a different religion.

rossum
 
Yes thats what I felt was amusing. Sorry for the laughing, sometimes thinks just hit me funny.

The concentration for sure. When as a Christian all of our concentration should be on Christ. How could there not be a conflict there, when in buddism there is no God?
He is talking about certain meditative practices which are aimed solely at calming down the mind. They really aren’t substantially different from various stress relief techniques, and modified forms of Buddhist meditation have been used to significant benefit in Psychiatry as a treatment for depression and anxiety disorders. I don’t think using them for this purpose would violate the teachings of the Catholic Church.
 
How can you follow the ten commandments when you never made it past the first one?:confused:

I AM the LORD YOUR GOD.
The first three commandments cover your relationship with your supreme being. They are not about morality.
 
Okay, I was wrong. I’m going to ask a lot more questions. 😊

Is “Pure Land” and “Nirvana” the same thing?

According, the one I just bolded in purple, does “Sensual misconduct” entail “sexual immorality”? What would be example of this in Buddhism? I can already tell rape is a form of breaking this and probably adultery.

But what are Buddhism’s stance on pre-martial sex, masturbation, sex involving more than 2 people, homosexuality, and certain types of sex (i.e anal, oral)?
Sensual misconduct is just a fancy term for sexual morality, yes. An example of this would be having adultery, yes.

There are sectarian differences in interpretation, but according to the Theravada scriptures, these things (pre-marital sex, oral and anal intercourse, etc…) probably don’t fit into sexual misconduct because they aren’t inherently harmful, which is the gold standard of Theravadin morality.

That doesn’t mean that you would need to accept these things as moral in order to accept some principles of Buddhist morality however. Just learn about the things that are compatable.

Here is a good example. Read this link.

accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.061.than.html

This passage from the Buddhist scriptures seems to me to be in perfect harmony with Catholic moral theology. I don’t see the problem with a Catholic reading and reflecting on this text personally.
 
The first three commandments cover your relationship with your supreme being. They are not about morality.
To be fair, they are considered to be about morality in Catholicism. Saying that they aren’t about morality between human beings would be a better way of putting it.
 
Is “Pure Land” and “Nirvana” the same thing?
No. The Pure Land is not nirvana itself, but is a place from where it is particularly easy to attain nirvana. Lots of Buddhas and Bodhisattvas are waiting there to teach you. The birds sing the words of the scriptures etc. Rather than trying to go straight to nirvana, some people try for the Pure Land instead, hoping for nirvana in one more step.
According, the one I just bolded in purple, does “Sensual misconduct” entail “sexual immorality”? What would be example of this in Buddhism? I can already tell rape is a form of breaking this and probably adultery.
Sexual immorality is included – sex is a form of touch. But it also includes other senses, for example gluttony is a misuse of the sense of taste.
But what are Buddhism’s stance on pre-martial sex, masturbation, sex involving more than 2 people, homosexuality, and certain types of sex (i.e anal, oral)?
Just like Christianity, Buddhism has its liberal wing and its conservative wing. For both wings, consenting adults are an absolute requirement. They differ on what those adults are allowed to consent to. In general Buddhists are far more relaxed about what is allowed than Christians. Buddhism originally had no marriage service, so it tended to follow what the local custom allowed. Marriage is seen much more as a civil, rather than a religious institution.

rossum
 
Is “Pure Land” and “Nirvana” the same thing?
Generally they are considered to be different except by some who hold that all the talk about the pure land is just part of an allegorical rendering of the Buddha’s teachings. The pure land is held to be a place where one is able to attain Nirvana easily.

I think I should note that the teaching of the Pure Land is not universal. The Theravada sect completely rejects it for example. To my knowlege, only Tibetean Buddhism and Pure Land Buddhism explicitly accept this teaching, along with some Zen/Chan, and other Zen/Chan interpret it as being metaphorical, while others reject it entirely.
 
Jesus hardly mentioned sex. The Buddha is about as brief. Monks and nuns are celibate. No sex of any kind for them.

For laypeople:
One must not be under the control of a parent or guardian. (Today we call it being of age).
One must not be pledged to another or have sex with someone pledged to another. (no adultery).
One must be able to support oneself. (This is so any children produced by sex will be financially cared for)

There are no sacraments in Buddhism so marriage was seen as a cultural institution and is not specifically mentioned although the terms husband and wife appear in other suttas.

Not all sex was in marriage since at the time there was a tradition of an exceptionally beautiful women taking lovers of many unmarried men so they wouldn’t fight over her. One of the most beautiful took the robes of a nun much to the upset of the men. Her name was Ambapali and she reached enlightenment. She wrote one of the most descriptive poems about aging of beauty that has ever been written.

accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/kn/thig/thig.13.01.than.html
 
He never said to abandon the Ten commandments, but to use Buddhist ethics to help understand how to live a better life.

Just as it says in Nostra Aetate paragraph 2:

“The Catholic Church rejects nothing that is true and holy in these religions. She regards with sincere reverence those ways of conduct and of life, those precepts and teachings which, though differing in many aspects from the ones she holds and sets forth, nonetheless often reflect a ray of that Truth which enlightens all men.”

Is it so much of a stretch to hold that some of the ethical principles found in Buddhism which are compatible with the Catholic Church’s moral theology could be helpful in developing a better understanding of ethics?

And no, you are not the Lord Our God.

(Sorry. I couldn’t resist making a little joke :p)
Good one:rotfl:
And I agree, I am not!

Now lets get back to the lst commandment I am the Lord your God, there shall be no false gods before me. How can you possibly use Buddhist ethics when they use Mantra to achieve mind emptying in order to go into pure consciousness to find the true self??

Now why would you need buddhist ethics when you have the true word of God. In the BEGINNING was the WORD and the WORD was God. He was in the beginning WITH GOD all thing come to be through him and without him nothing came to be!!
 
There is no sin in Buddhism, so there is no need for forgiveness of sin. In Buddhism, if you do the crime then you do the time:

Neither in the sky nor in mid-ocean,
nor in a cave in the mountains,
is there a place where a man
can escape his evil deed.

– Dhammapada 9:12

Prayer does exist in Buddhism: you can pray to a god if you want to win the lottery, or something material. Prayer to a god will not gain you enlightenment. That is something you have to do yourself.

Grace from God will not get you into nirvana. How can it? God has not yet attained nirvana for Himself.

Eternal life is precisely what Buddhists want to avoid. Eternal life is eternal suffering, even in the heavens. Remember that the heavens, like the hells, are of finite duration, so even there death is present. The point of Buddhism is to escape from the eternal round of rebirths and enter into nirvana. See my post #214 in this thread for the Assu sutta – ‘The Ocean of Tears’.

Salvation is a Christian concept. The nearest thing Buddhism has is enlightenment. Judging by His actions, Jesus was close to enlightenment, hence his status as a likely Bodhisattva. Unfortunately, judging by His actions, YHWH is a long way from enlightenment. Just count up the number of people and animals He kills, directly or indirectly.

What is left is the diagnosis of our problem and the way for us to resolve it:
  • The problem is suffering.
  • The cause of the problem is selfish desire.
  • If we eliminate selfish desire then we eliminate the problem of suffering.
  • The way to eliminate selfish desire is to follow the Path.
They helped the Buddha, and all those after him who have also attained enlightenment. Buddhism works.

Buddhism is not Christianity. To a Buddhist the Bible is grossly insufficient because it does not mention nirvana even once. It is not useful to judge one religion by the criteria of a different religion.

rossum
There you go, another big problem. In Christianity its all about sin. And we need the forgiveness of Christ and grace of Christ to forgive and help us rid ourself of sin. As you state there is no sin.

Explain this to me. Again can’t get off the 1st commandment. Now you have Transcendental Meditation correct? Now No you claim you have no god, but in TM the mantra calls on a Hindu god.:eek: Mortal sin, 1st commandment!!
 
Good one:rotfl:
And I agree, I am not!

Now lets get back to the lst commandment I am the Lord your God, there shall be no false gods before me. How can you possibly use Buddhist ethics when they use Mantra to achieve mind emptying in order to go into pure consciousness to find the true self??

Now why would you need buddhist ethics when you have the true word of God. In the BEGINNING was the WORD and the WORD was God. He was in the beginning WITH GOD all thing come to be through him and without him nothing came to be!!
Not all Buddhists use mantras. I don’t, for example.

I’m not saying that a Catholic would need to learn Buddhist ethics. I am only pointing out that a Catholic could study certain parts of Buddhist ethics and find parts of it helpful.
 
There you go, another big problem. In Christianity its all about sin. And we need the forgiveness of Christ and grace of Christ to forgive and help us rid ourself of sin. As you state there is no sin.

Explain this to me. Again can’t get off the 1st commandment. Now you have Transcendental Meditation correct? Now No you claim you have no god, but in TM the mantra calls on a Hindu god.:eek: Mortal sin, 1st commandment!!
What does Trancendental meditation have to do with anything? TM has nothing to do with Buddhism at all.
 
And again WRONG GO. Eternal life is not death. Eternal life is a wonderful painless, beautiful life after death that God has ready for those that love him.

Another big difference why we could never agree. Jesus died on the cross for our sins, which you yourself claim you deny, It is our sins that make us dead, it is the blood of Jesus that paid the price for our sins, died rose again and brought us to eternal life.

Complete happiness in him, with him!!

Your beliefs are contrary to the Christian faith.
 
And again WRONG GO. Eternal life is not death. Eternal life is a wonderful painless, beautiful life after death that God has ready for those that love him.

Another big difference why we could never agree. Jesus died on the cross for our sins, which you yourself claim you deny, It is our sins that make us dead, it is the blood of Jesus that paid the price for our sins, died rose again and brought us to eternal life.

Complete happiness in him, with him!!

Your beliefs are contrary to the Christian faith.
You act surprised that Buddhism conflicts with Christianity. That’s what we’ve been saying for some pages now.
 
Not all Buddhists use mantras. I don’t, for example.

I’m not saying that a Catholic would need to learn Buddhist ethics. I am only pointing out that a Catholic could study certain parts of Buddhist ethics and find parts of it helpful.
But what could they find helpful that Christ forgot to teach us?:confused:
 
Good one:rotfl:
And I agree, I am not!

Now lets get back to the lst commandment I am the Lord your God, there shall be no false gods before me. How can you possibly use Buddhist ethics when they use Mantra to achieve mind emptying in order to go into pure consciousness to find the true self??
Ethics and meditation are separate issues, though I think Christians can use both.

You appear to be confusing TM–which is an allegedly “non-religious” (a dubious, if not ludicrous claim) Westernization of Hindu meditation–with Buddhist meditation. I understand why, since many of the same Westerners are interested in both. But it’s like confusing Sufism with Christian monastic spirituality. Related but clearly distinct things.

Tibetan Buddhists and certain other Mahayana/Vajrayana traditions use mantras and other practices that look fairly close to “idolatry” from a Christian perspective–these are the forms of Buddhism closest to Hinduism.

Other Buddhists don’t do this.

One of the questions that needs raising is whether it is idolatry to pay “dulia” to the historical Buddha, for instance. I don’t see how it can be. Dulia doesn’t become latria just because the object is non-Christian. And as I’ve pointed out on this forum before, the liturgical trappings of patriotism clearly constitute a form of dulia directed toward a non-Christian object.
Now why would you need buddhist ethics when you have the true word of God. In the BEGINNING was the WORD and the WORD was God. He was in the beginning WITH GOD all thing come to be through him and without him nothing came to be!!
Precisely. Hence, anything good in Buddhism comes from the Logos, and appropriating it is in no way an act of disloyalty to the Logos! This is the argument Justin Martyr used with regard to classical Greco-Roman philosophy–if he hadn’t, Catholicism would look very different.

Edwin
 
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