Ask A Buddhist

[notself]

Simple why would you send a Christian or Catholic to Buddhsim meditation since it is not centered on Christ?

I fail to see how someone who is searching for a stronger way to be closer to Christ would be told to do a meditation that is not centered on Christ.

Thats what I don’t get.

I understand that the perfect prayer is in Matthew 6, but Catholics pray more than just the “Our Father”. So in this spirit, I have modified the Metta Sutta into a Jesus centered prayer. (The first time I posted it, you thought it sounded like a prayer.) Then I changed the meditation phrases I use to a Jesus centered prayer that is short enough to be used as a meditation object.
Here is the re-written sutta. This is the basis for the meditation object that follows.

Dear Jesus,
Let me be able and upright,
Straightforward and gentle in speech,
Humble and not conceited,
Contented and easily satisfied,
Unburdened with duties and frugal in my ways.

Peaceful and calm and wise and skillful,
Not proud nor demanding in nature.
Let me not do the slightest thing
That You would later reprove.

Let me not deceive another,
Nor despise any being in any state.
Let me not through anger or ill-will
Wish harm upon another.
Even as a mother protects with her life
Her child, her only child,
So with a boundless heart
Teach me to cherish all living beings.

Help me to radiate kindness over the entire world:
Spreading upwards to the skies,
And downwards to the depths;
Outwards and unbounded,
Free me from hatred and ill-will,
Whether standing or walking, seated or lying down
Sustain me in Your love.

This is the shorter prayer that can be used as a meditation object/meditative prayer. The section in parenthesis is and explanation of the phrase.

Dear Jesus through You:
May I be well and happy (spiritually well and happy because of it)
May I be free from anger and ill will (both your own anger and that which is directed at you)
May I be at peace (be able to face ups and downs with equanimity)
May my heart be filled with Your loving kindness. (so you may show kindness to yourself and to others)

Repeat the above substituting a name in place of “I” in each phrase. You could substitute family, friends, acquaintances and don’t forget those who have injured or angered you.

Now that we have removed the Buddhishness, let me explain how I have used this type of meditation. I uses this in formal meditation when I sit. I repeat it first for myself, then for others and I focus on family members that are having a difficult time or people that I find upsetting or irritating - usually politicians. I also use it this shorter phrase when ever I even start to get upset. It cuts off anger like a knife through butter. I could be driving, watching TV, talking to a difficult person. Wherever and whenever.

I even “prayed” for the happiness of my breast cancer tumor while waiting for surgery. I figured if the cancer was free from anger and ill will, perhaps it wouldn’t kill me. Actually, saying metta calmed my fear. I didn’t expect it to shrink my tumor or make it go away. I was interested in calming my mind.

What Bakmoon is saying is anyone can modify various techniques to fit specific situations. Metta meditation is a technique to bring peace to the individual saying it. If one changes it to include Jesus, the technique becomes Jesus centered prayer.

This type of meditation is similar to Lectio Divina but with the object of increasing kindness and reducing anger or irritation or fear.

 

[Michael19682]

rinnie, bakmoon, et al.,

In my opinion, there are many passages in the NT in which we find Jesus depersonalizing his message, focusing on “WHAT” he is saying, and not the fact that he is Son of Man, Master, prophet, etc.

Does anyone agree?

 

[Bakmoon]

rinnie, bakmoon, et al.,

In my opinion, there are many passages in the NT in which we find Jesus depersonalizing his message, focusing on “WHAT” he is saying, and not the fact that he is Son of Man, Master, prophet, etc.

Does anyone agree?

Sure. I don’t object to that.

 

[Michael19682]

You still haven’t addressed my central argument. Here it is again, somewhat shortened.

Once you address this point, I will move on to addressing your point.

Part of the difficulty you are having Bakmoon in your pursuit of an answer to your ‘central argument’ is that it really isn’t an argument as you state it in the quoted post, but an inquiry into a facet of the mystery of Catholic Christianity.

I would answer what I think is your question by stressing the importance of Name in worship (of any kind). When we are praying, centering, meditating, etc. what are we really trying to focus on. One could argue that as a spiritual exercise a Catholic could imagine a sacred prayer coming from the mouth of a demon, and try to “generate” compassion for the demon, whom may then ask us to follow him to the gates of heaven, or to some place on earth where a great prize will await – except that in our tradition we know that the advice of a demon is never to be heeded, no matter with what he may sprinkle the corpus of his rherotic. For a demon there is hellish centering on evil, so compassion is wasted and (therefore) in that case highly suspect. In a certain sense, that particular compassion could lead us to ruin. The only name we know is safe, the only image our eyes can ever trust is Christ Jesus.

So when you say that there are pursuits that are not Christ centered, you speak the truth in that context because in a very radical sense we know Paul writes in 2 Cor 2::

For we are the aroma of Christ for God among those who are being saved and among those who are perishing,16 to the latter an odor of death that leads to death, to the former an odor of life that leads to life. Who is qualified for this? 17 For we are not like the many who trade on the word of God; but as out of sincerity, indeed as from God and in the presence of God, we speak in Christ.

IOW, the same body of Christ can trip up or lift up, in Paul’s gospel here. Therefore, an action such as viewing entertainment, matters little; what matters is WHY the person is doing it: as that will Dictate or Speak to what the person is truly centering on: Virtue or it’s opposite, Vice! One may innocently claim that inserting “Buddha” for “Christ” or “Christ” for “Buddha” in a prayer is itself innocuous, but from one point of view the reality remains that though the name Jesus is safe, it is only completely safe when said fully (confessed), “Jesus is Lord”.

Hence, though it may seem ridiculous and the idiot’s delight to many, if playing Lacrosse is the ultimate Joy in life for you, and if you see imitation of Christ in it, then you are probably ok even if dull and drunk spiritually. If you know, on the other hand, that Buddha and Christ taught vastly different things about the afterlife, and you go ahead practicing Buddhist meditation and make it your greatest joy – then you are denying Christ’s teachings and that kind of nullifies your status as Christian for a bit (though of course you may always come back, so the story of the Prodigal Son illustrates). If you argue that you are in mere inquiry, and not denying anything, then you have made inquiry your joy, which is odd since if you profess belief in Jesus, why would you question his teaching on Heaven? Why would you seek to improve your rebirth? Why do you question God? Answer, it all depends on what you mean by “inquiry”! The only instance of inquiry I can reason from the gospel is the fasting and tempting in the desert that Jesus underwent before the Devil. He was young, inexperienced young man: but oh was he ever decisive and oh did he give good answers.

I wonder how many Catholics go to Buddhism out of guilt: perhaps feeling they haven’t been tempted enough, and hence feel their faith is insecure or was too easily formed. Perhaps that is why that passage is there in the New Testament. In any case, we know the answer he gave…“Jesus said to him in reply, “It is written: ‘You shall worship the Lord, your God, and him alone shall you serve.’”

A Catholic sister, a nun, once broke open the word at a mass when all the priest were gone somewhere. Her main message was “Who is this Jesus we worship?” And that is the central answer to your question, bakmoon. It really does matter who the person is, and, importantly, here on earth that is majorly determined by WHAT the person said…

 

[Bakmoon]

If you know, on the other hand, that Buddha and Christ taught vastly different things about the afterlife, and you go ahead practicing Buddhist meditation and make it your greatest joy – then you are denying Christ’s teachings and that kind of nullifies your status as Christian for a bit…

I am not talking about a Catholic who makes Buddhist meditation their greatest joy and nor am I talking about a Catholic who attempts to believe both Buddhist and Catholic Doctrine. I am talking about the possibility of a Catholic who rejects Buddhist doctrine and accepts Catholic teaching using meditation to supplement their happiness. For example, let’s say that a Catholic suffers from anxiety disorders, and hears that Buddhist meditation may help, and tries it to find that it works for them. Would it be wrong for such a Catholic to continue to use Buddhist meditation to help them? Or what about to help with depression? Is this wrong? And if so, why?

 

[Eric_Hilbert]

Oops, went over 1000 and wasn’t paying attention.
I’ll let it go 'till tonight.

 

[Bakmoon]

Oops, went over 1000 and wasn’t paying attention.
I’ll let it go 'till tonight.

Wow. I never would have imagined that this thread would end up generating so much interest. If this thread is closed before I can say anything else, I would like to tell everyone that I have had a great time discussing and debating with everyone here. It has been a very nice way to welcome me to the site. Thank you everybody!

 

[notself]

Wow. I never would have imagined that this thread would end up generating so much interest. If this thread is closed before I can say anything else, I would like to tell everyone that I have had a great time discussing and debating with everyone here. It has been a very nice way to welcome me to the site. Thank you everybody!

Can we open a new thread?

 

[Vouthon]

I want the last word!

This has been - BY FAR - one of the best threads on CAF, I just want to thank brother Bakmoon for creating it, and for his, sister Notself, brother/sister Rossum and all our other friends contributions.

By all means open up a new thread and keep the discussion going!

God Bless you all!

 

[patrick457]

Can we open a new thread?

YES.