Ask A Buddhist

[Bakmoon]

Just a question. How does Theravada chant sound like?

Here is a link to the traditional Morning Chant in Pali, chanted in the traditional Thai style:
youtube.com/watch?v=MX2EbVYthow
I know the title says prayer, but that’s probably because the producers of this video are a Thai T.V. station and the Thai language doesn’t really distinguish between the word for chanting and praying, so it’s probably a translation error.

Here is a link to some Pali Chanting in homage to the three jewels according to the Sri Lankan style:
youtube.com/watch?v=-5BeARCgKvI&feature=plcp

 

[Contarini]

The Pope knows what these religions teach and what they do not teach.

I have no doubt that he has a basic understanding, but what makes you think that he has some kind of profound knowledge of this subject?

Neither this Pope nor his predecessor is/was deeply learned in non-Christian religions. You can see this just from looking at a list of their formidable academic credentials. JPII was primarily a philosopher, though of a kind that took Christian spirituality seriously into account. Pope Benedict is primarily a historical theologian, with a profound understanding of patristic and medieval theology.

Are you suggesting that the Pope has a charism enabling him to understand non-Christian religions? Where does the Catholic Church teach this?

It is thier job to show us what agrees and what disagrees with our faith.

It is their job to say “if Buddhists say X, then this is why they are wrong.”

It is not their job to teach people what Buddhists say.

What do you feel that they have said that is not true?

Not outright false, but inadequate and oversimplified. The suggestion that Buddhism focuses on the self does not match the impression I get from actually reading Buddhist texts and talking to Buddhists. It focuses on the self only in the sense that that’s where the trouble is. But the trouble is precisely our imprisonment in a false sense of self. I fail to see how this is egocentric in any negative sense.

Therapy for the soul is only part of Christianity, but it is an important part. And because Buddhists are, as it were, specialists in this area, we would do well to listen to them–carefully and respectfully, but not uncritically.

To cut to the chase, Yet it proclaims and is BOUND to prclaim without fail it is Christ who is the way the truth and the life.

No dispute there.

Edwin

 

[Bakmoon]

Are you going to do the one meal before midday?

Probably. I’ll see how hungry it actually makes me before committing to one meal first.

 

[notself]

Probably. I’ll see how hungry it actually makes me before committing to one meal first.

Monks eat a full day’s calories in their one meal. So if one takes the time to make a full sized noon day meal, it will be 7 or 8 o’clock before the hunger hits. Then one gets to sit and observe, hungry, hungry hungry, until hunger gives up. Around midnight the hunger seems to lessen. I do admit it is the toughest part of the day and I don’t always make it.

 

[Xuan]

Hi Bakmoon,

Thank you for starting this thread! I’ve learned a great deal here. Since you practice Thai Buddhism, I have a couple of questions that I’m just curious about.

What is the significance of spirit houses? And how does it work? I think they’re really neat, but I’ve never heard the whole story behind them.

Also, what’s the story behind “Buddha trees”?

Thanks in advance,
Xuan

 

[Bakmoon]

Hi Bakmoon,

Thank you for starting this thread! I’ve learned a great deal here. Since you practice Thai Buddhism, I have a couple of questions that I’m just curious about.

What is the significance of spirit houses? And how does it work? I think they’re really neat, but I’ve never heard the whole story behind them.

Also, what’s the story behind “Buddha trees”?

Thanks in advance,
Xuan

The spirit house things are part of Thai folk religion. Prior to the rise of Buddhism among the Thais,they practiced various forms of animism which were based on placating and making offerings to local spirits in exchange for favors. This type of animism still partially survives as part of the folk religion of the Thai people, and spirit houses are the main sign of this animistic tradition, and isn’t considered part of Buddhism.

Spirit houses are supposed to be places for local spirits to come and live inside to protect the area where they are located. There are various opinions on whether or not Buddhists should engage in these things. Some say that such practice simply invites the local Devas to reside inside and look after the place, whereas others see it simply as being harmless superstition, and yet others look on it as being dangerous stuff that can open you up to getting possessed and stuff. Personally, I don’t take an interest in that kind of stuff just in case evil spirits are involved in it.

The Buddha trees you are talking about must be a reference to the term Bodhi tree. They are one of the oldest symbols of the Buddha. In the earliest period of Buddhism, statues of the Buddha weren’t an established form of veneration, and instead, people would venerate species of the Ficus Religiosa tree, more commonly known as the sacred fig tree, which is the type of tree the Buddha sat under to attain enlightenment. Many monasteries will keep one of these trees as a symbol of the Buddha in addition to the now common use of statues of the Buddha.

 

[rinnie]

In short, you’re relying on a Jesuit priest and a lay evangelization organization.

Well, there are plenty of Jesuit priests who practice Buddhist meditation, yoga, etc. . . .

Apparently you find Fr. Hardon’s arguments more persuasive, which is certainly legitimate.

But I have to ask whether you have actually read anything written by a Catholic on the other side of the debate?

Edwin

Yes, I have. The problem to make a long story short, I think you know me well enough to know I like to get to the point.

In Yoga they use a type of music, etc. It is a way to I hate to use the word but lets say brainwashing in a way. Not for everyone. Anyway. Certain people are more open to this then others.

So long story short here it is, you go, relax, etc. next thing you know you are invited to come here and there, and you become deeper into Buddhism.

Thats the short version.

 

[rinnie]

Rinnie,

Remember that this was originally about your denial that any kind of mental discipline to avoid temptation was of any use, unless the mental discipline in question explicitly acknowledged God. At least, that seemed to be your position–if it wasn’t, I can’t make sense of what you said.

The point Bakmoon and I are making is that in Catholic theology “natural” means may be valuable in helping one live in a more virtuous and healthy way. This doesn’t take away from our total dependence on God.

You seemed to be saying that the only way one can do anything to avoid sin is simply to rely on grace, which seemed to be saying that grace canceled out free will.

Edwin

How Edwin, How can the grace of God cancel free will. Thats like saying that because God put you here and gives you a beautiful voice you have to use it and be a singer. If you don’t feel the need to sing you don’t have to be a singer. Even if you have a beautiful voice.

Did the beautful voice come from the grace of God? YES! Did you have free will to sing? According to what you are saying NO you have to, because God gave you grace and no free will to use that grace or reject that grace.

You are making no sense to me.

God has ways to reach each of us differently. If we want a deeper union with Christ it is by our need and our free will that drive us to this special union with him.

But our need and our free will does not always cut it. If Christ does not grant us this grace its not happening.

But its his love for us that shows us a way to attain this. It may be in meditation, centering prayer or it may be on a day to day basis just talking to God in our mind.

This meditation that they are speaking of all relys on one thing SELF. That is what I disagree with. When they meditate where are they teaching us it is US and GOD.

They are not. Thats my problem with it. It is not the meditation I disagree with. God always taught us to meditate. Where is this new?

God always taught us when we pray to go alone in a quiet place and spend time in prayer. We have always had comtemplative prayer.

There are dangers of blending Christan prayer and Easter methods of meditation.

The Pope teaches us when God bestows the GIFT of comtemplative prayer it is normally to more mature Christians.

Lets stop there Edwin what is the GIFT the Pope is speaking of. Just an example of the Grace we are given from God. God is sovereign and gives his graces as HE chooses but normally he reserves this gift for those who have made some progress fighting vice and growing in virtue and in the fruit of the spirit. (that should sum it up, what I am trying to say).

So lets stop here,for a moment. What are we doing when we meditate, as they are saying? Remember what we are told, its just breathing, but sure we can do the Jesus Prayer. The Jesus Prayer.

Then what are we doing Edwin, comtempltive prayer, centering prayer? Answer me this first.

And lets say we do the Jesus Prayer, do this breathing method, etc. What if we continue day in and day out and it does not work for us. Because what I am saying Edwin it won’t it God does not want it to happen.

They can reject God all they want and say they are getting peace, etc. Sorry Edwin I am not buying what they are selling. They can TRY to cut God and his Grace out all they want and deny him, But without his Grace they will receive no peace, not a truly good peace unless it comes from God. ANd that is his grace.

Then when they receive the peace, or whatever they want to call it that is the true grace given to them by God and they have free will to use it or reject it.

Its like saying after one meditates and gets true peace and love in their heart, it did not come from the grace of God, and then once the grace is there, it has to be used, because you have to use the Grace and be kind with the peace and love received. Because God gave you that grace you have to use it, and cannot refuse it, because you have no free will now. Thats what you are trying to say, or how I see what you are saying, That is why I do not see why you guys on hung up on the grace of God.

Am I saying you cannot receive peace without the Grace of God? YES I am. Rather you want to believe it or not. Am I saying you have to use the peace after it is given and be kind, and good to people. NO. You could have that peace, ten minutes later snap, throw it away and kill someone.

 

[rinnie]

And yes Edwin you cannot avoid sin without the Grace of God. If you did not have the grace and free will together you could not reject sin.

Free will is what gives us the choice to reject sin or sin, and Grace gives us the strength to reject sin. Not using the grace is what causes us to reject grace and sin. How in the world does that go against Catholic teaching?

How can we possibly reject sin without the Grace of God? You explain that to me. Because if you agree with that, you are like these people. IF God does not give you the grace to reject sin, where does it come from?

Self thats where Edwin, Self. You say I did not sin because I have the power All by myself to do anything, I don’t need the grace of God, It all comes from ME. Then guess what. Who is you God? Its You!

 

[patrick457]

Here is a link to the traditional Morning Chant in Pali, chanted in the traditional Thai style:
youtube.com/watch?v=MX2EbVYthow
I know the title says prayer, but that’s probably because the producers of this video are a Thai T.V. station and the Thai language doesn’t really distinguish between the word for chanting and praying, so it’s probably a translation error.

Here is a link to some Pali Chanting in homage to the three jewels according to the Sri Lankan style:
youtube.com/watch?v=-5BeARCgKvI&feature=plcp

Hmm, interesting.

For the record, here are East Asian Buddhist chants. These are respectively, the Chinese, Korean and Japanese versions of the Heart Sutra.

youtube.com/watch?v=foxW6869qsA (Mandarin)
youtube.com/watch?v=3yK0GjjbmV0 (Mandarin; with 南無本師釋迦牟尼佛 Namo Sakyamuni Buddha at the beginning)
youtube.com/watch?v=hYqLBkMrodg (Korean; notice the triple recitation of the final mantra: gate gate paragate… at the end)
youtube.com/watch?v=A2WZf9qP73A (Korean)
youtube.com/watch?v=apFbhDvn-FM (Japanese)
youtube.com/watch?v=9Gilg7OstyA (Japanese; with taiko accompaniment)

BTW, I found the entire morning service of Sōji-ji (Sōtō school). I just don’t get the whole thing with the running monks and the sutra leafing during and after the recitation/s of the Heart Sutra though. Based on the description it kinda seems to be a ceremony to the temple’s patron deity.

 

[Bakmoon]

And yes Edwin you cannot avoid sin without the Grace of God. If you did not have the grace and free will together you could not reject sin.

Free will is what gives us the choice to reject sin or sin, and Grace gives us the strength to reject sin. Not using the grace is what causes us to reject grace and sin. How in the world does that go against Catholic teaching?

How can we possibly reject sin without the Grace of God? You explain that to me. Because if you agree with that, you are like these people. IF God does not give you the grace to reject sin, where does it come from?

Self thats where Edwin, Self. You say I did not sin because I have the power All by myself to do anything, I don’t need the grace of God, It all comes from ME. Then guess what. Who is you God? Its You!

You are creating a false dichotomy between Grace and Free Will. We are not saying that a Catholic should rely on Buddhist techniques alone to resist sin, but that a Catholic could use such techniques in addition to Divine Grace. What is wrong with this? The Catholic Church teaches that it isn’t an either/or between Grace and Free Will, but that they should work together.

 

[rinnie]

You are creating a false dichotomy between Grace and Free Will. We are not saying that a Catholic should rely on Buddhist techniques alone to resist sin, but that a Catholic could use such techniques in addition to Divine Grace. What is wrong with this? The Catholic Church teaches that it isn’t an either/or between Grace and Free Will, but that they should work together.

How, how am I creating a fals dichotomy between grace and free will. Where did I ever say grace and free will work arpart from one another. It is you who keep insisting I am saying his.

And the reason I am against the technique is it can be dangerous. It is not for the average Catholic to practice. There are hidden dangers if you are not really informed about your faith. It can lead you away from God instead of to him.

I asked you earlier how are you to purify yourself of all desire. Is that not what this technique promises or is supposed to accomplish?

So how can I purify myself using your techinque, If I believe it is by the Grace of God that I am purified? Do you not see a problem here,

Now if the technique taught to ask God for his Grace to help us and purify us in our desires, Of course I would be with it, But your technique does not include this now does it?

 

[rinnie]

Another problem your type of meditation suggests approaches to disengage the mind.

Christian meditation is the complete opposite.

Christian meditation is to FILL the mind.

Christian meditation invlolves te Grace of the Holy Spirit, We are taught to fill our minds with scripture for meditation. How can we fill our hearts with and minds with scripture and mix with your meditation when we are to disengage our mind?

Makes no sense now does it?

 

[CatholicRoots]

I’m just curious to find out what aspects, through a Buddhist lens, seem appealing to you about Catholicism and those which on the contrary you find a little unappealing. The only reason I ask is because I don’t know many people who are of a different religion to ever pose this question to. (since the majority, if not all, of the people that constitute my town seem to be either Christian or Atheist.) Your answer doesn’t have to be comprehensive, just the basic dispositions (favorable or unfavorable) to the major doctrines of Catholicism.

Since it would be interesting to see how a Buddhist may view our religion externally and not as one who is a Christian but of another denomination; as their views towards Catholicism and vice-versa are generally predicatable.

Also a more Buddhist centered question from me would be: if you don’t believe in a deity or at least not in a deity who doesn’t need enlightenment, what caused us to be here? is there a Buddhist explanation of why we exist? Someone who knows a bit about Buddhism told me that the reason we exist is just so Karma can effect its effects on a being that’s why we exist, which didn’t seem intuitively correct to me.

 

[Bakmoon]

How, how am I creating a fals dichotomy between grace and free will. Where did I ever say grace and free will work arpart from one another. It is you who keep insisting I am saying his.

And the reason I am against the technique is it can be dangerous. It is not for the average Catholic to practice. There are hidden dangers if you are not really informed about your faith. It can lead you away from God instead of to him.

I asked you earlier how are you to purify yourself of all desire. Is that not what this technique promises or is supposed to accomplish?

So how can I purify myself using your techinque, If I believe it is by the Grace of God that I am purified? Do you not see a problem here,

Now if the technique taught to ask God for his Grace to help us and purify us in our desires, Of course I would be with it, But your technique does not include this now does it?

I will respond to you paragraph by paragraph.

1. You are creating a false dichotomy between the two because you insist that it is wrong to use these techniques to resist sin because one should rely on Grace to do so. This argument doesn’t work because it doesn’t address the possibility of praying for and receiving grace and also using such techniques to resist sin. I am proposing that a Catholic could use this technique along side divine grace and find it helpful in resisting temptation.
2. I described the technique for you already. It is just about being aware of the temptation in the mind and seeing it as distinct from the object of temptation in order to weaken it. How can this lead someone away from God?
3. The technique is not about destroying all desire, but rather overcoming the temptations of greed, anger, and lust.
4. You are assuming that one cannot rely on Divine Grace to fight sin and also resist sin using one’s own effort at the same time. Why cannot one do both?

 

[notself]

CatholicRoots;9591638]I’m just curious to find out what aspects, through a Buddhist lens, seem appealing to you about Catholicism and those which on the contrary you find a little unappealing. The only reason I ask is because I don’t know many people who are of a different religion to ever pose this question to. (since the majority, if not all, of the people that constitute my town seem to be either Christian or Atheist.) Your answer doesn’t have to be comprehensive, just the basic dispositions (favorable or unfavorable) to the major doctrines of Catholicism.

Since it would be interesting to see how a Buddhist may view our religion externally and not as one who is a Christian but of another denomination; as their views towards Catholicism and vice-versa are generally predictable

. I don’t think you will get a view of Catholicism from the “outside looking in” since most if not all posting are from Christian families and were raised Christian.

Also a more Buddhist centered question from me would be: if you don’t believe in a deity or at least not in a deity who doesn’t need enlightenment, what caused us to be here? is there a Buddhist explanation of why we exist?

The question “why do we exist”, in the way such a question is understood in the West, is not considered important therefore it was not answered by the Buddha.

Someone who knows a bit about Buddhism told me that the reason we exist is just so Karma can effect its effects on a being that’s why we exist, which didn’t seem intuitively correct to me.

I think you may have misunderstood your friend or your friend was trying to answer the question using terms out of context. Some concepts, such as dependent arising are very complex and are not meant to answer questions about creation or a creator or the reasons for existence in the way Christians think of such questions.

 

[Bakmoon]

Another problem your type of meditation suggests approaches to disengage the mind.

Christian meditation is the complete opposite.

Christian meditation is to FILL the mind.

Christian meditation invlolves te Grace of the Holy Spirit, We are taught to fill our minds with scripture for meditation. How can we fill our hearts with and minds with scripture and mix with your meditation when we are to disengage our mind?

Makes no sense now does it?

Buddhist meditation is not about emptying the mind, but about learning to observe with clarity.

Your criticism would work if I were saying that a Catholic could use Buddhist meditation to find God, but I am not. I am arguing that a Catholic could use Buddhist meditation for an increase in natural happiness.

 

[Bakmoon]

In Yoga they use a type of music, etc. It is a way to I hate to use the word but lets say brainwashing in a way. Not for everyone. Anyway. Certain people are more open to this then others.

So long story short here it is, you go, relax, etc. next thing you know you are invited to come here and there, and you become deeper into Buddhism.

Thats the short version.

Yoga as it is commonly known in the west is descended from Hinduism, not Buddhism, so I don’t see what Yoga has to do anything with Buddhism.

 

[TheAtheist]

Buddhist meditation is not about emptying the mind, but about learning to observe with clarity.

Your criticism would work if I were saying that a Catholic could use Buddhist meditation to find God, but I am not. I am arguing that a Catholic could use Buddhist meditation for an increase in natural happiness.

Very reluctant to comment on this thread, given that the majority of these “I’m a _____” threads devolve into…well…what’s it devolved into.

However, regarding the “learning to observe with clarity” bit i feel i’m on much firmer ground given that we have both neurological and cognitive psychological evidence of both.

Let me be absolutely clear - i am in no way stating anything regarding the underpinnings of the Theravada/Mahayana/Vajrayana metaphysical viewpoint.

All i’m saying is that the effects offered up by the most basic forms of meditation or rather, contemplation to divide out the difference between East and West, has been scientifically verified. Its even served as the basis of MBSR.

Conversely, there hasn’t been much fieldwork/labwork done in terms of the effects of meditation/contemplation practices for most Western traditions. Off the top of my head - i believe there was a study of Carmelite nuns who got MRI while praying the rosary - it does have some positive effects on the blood pressure (although that really isn’t the point to praying the rosary is it).

There was also this landmark study for one of those protestant sects (escapes my mind) who speak in tongues. Their Superior Parietal Lobe (portion of the brain that accounts for space/time experiences) activity drops dramatically.

There’s a general…dare i say reluctance on the part of those in the Abrahamic faiths to let us go poking around their noggins in the depths of their psychological experiences.

 

[rinnie]

Buddhist meditation is not about emptying the mind, but about learning to observe with clarity.

Your criticism would work if I were saying that a Catholic could use Buddhist meditation to find God, but I am not. I am arguing that a Catholic could use Buddhist meditation for an increase in natural happiness.

How? If you cannot find God how are you going to increase natural happiness? All happiness comes from God.

You said Buddhist meditation is not about emptying the mind, then why is it called to do this. Are you denying that emptying the mind is what Buddhist meditation is?