Ask A Buddhist

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Why do some Buddhists worship the fat buddha and some worship the skinny one?

Was there a Feast Day or something yesterday? I visited the local Buddhist temple, of the fat buddha, on our way home from Church because my exchange student from France had never seen one. The sanctuary was empty, but there was something going all in the hall below with lots of food laid out in a way that would be impossible for people to get to to get it and the people were standing facing the food and chanting. What did we witness?
I’m not a Buddhist but I’d like to answer this one.

The so-called ‘Fat Buddha’ many Westerners are familiar with is actually Budai (Chinese) or Hotei (Japanese), a semi-legendary medieval Chinese monk who was later venerated as a deity (he is one of the so-called Seven Lucky Gods here in Japan) or bodhisattva (often conflated with Maitreya) or even a buddha - although IMHO mostly on the popular level. And no, buddhas and bodhisattvas aren’t technically ‘worshipped’, although there is that Mahayana interpretation of dharmakaya and the idea of the Eternal Buddha which could ostensibly give the impression of the Buddha being a god (in the Western Christian sense of an almighty and everliving being), and folk beliefs tending to not make a clear distinction between buddhas and gods.

And as for the temple: was it East Asian in milieu? I don’t know about Theravada but I have the impression (could be wrong though) that food offerings are common in Mahayana temples, especially East Asian ones. For some reason I suspect (again I’m not totally sure) that it might be a segaki (施餓鬼, as it is called in Japanese), a ceremonial offer of food to the pretas or ‘hungry ghosts’ to alleviate their insatiable hunger.
 
Will Buddhists accept it if he says “Now you will be told the truth because you are prepared for it: The creator of all this is beyond change!”
The creator cannot be beyond change. The creator has to change from “I will create in the future,” to “I am creating now,” to “I have created.”

An unchanging creator is not possible, because then the creation could not change, and we can see that creation changes. An unchanging creator would be something like: On the first day, God said, “Let there be light,” and on the second day, God said, “Let there be light,” and on the third day, God said, “Let there be light,” and on the fourth day …

An unchanging creator has always been creating and cannot stop creating. That means that if the creator is eternal, then the creation is also eternal. The unchanging creator could never start creating, because the change from not creating to creating is impossible for an unchanging creator.

An unchanging creator can only create an unchanging creation, and that creation has to exist for as long as the creator.

rossum
 
Just for a little illustration:

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

http://huntingtonarchive.osu.edu/studypages/internal/dl/SouthAsia/Buddhist/jpgs/u5/DL0210m.jpg

Siddhattha Gotama (aka Śākyamuni)

http://www1.fhnews.com.cn/gb/node2/node472/node975/node983/images/00012088.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bd/Buddha_Beipu.jpg/240px-Buddha_Beipu.jpg

Budai

Trivia: the second Budai pic actually has the caption (from right-to-left) 彌勒佛 ‘Maitreya [the] buddha’ on the pedestal. 😉
 
Another question (sorry if I get so annoying): is there any analogous idea to the Mahayana concept of trikāya in Theravada?

Also, what do you make of this passage from the Lotus Sutra?

At that time the Buddha told Shariputra, "Have I not said before that all the Buddhas, World Honored Ones, speak the Dharma by means of various causes and conditions, parables, and phrases, and expedient devices, all for the sake of Anuttarasamyaksambodhi? All of these teachings are for the sake of transforming the Bodhisattvas. However, Shariputra, I shall now again make use of a parable in order to further clarify the principle, for all those who are wise gain understanding through parables.

"Shariputra, suppose that in a country, a city, or a village, there is a great elder, aged and worn, of limitless wealth, possessing many fields, houses, and servants. His house is spacious and large, having only one door, but with a great many people–one hundred, two hundred, even five hundred of them–dwelling within it. Its halls and chambers are decaying and old; its walls are crumbling. The pillars are rotting at their baes; the beams and ridge-poles are toppling dangerously. All at once, throughout the house, a fire breaks out, setting the house ablaze. The elder’s sons, ten, twenty, even thirty of them are inside the house. The elder, seeing the fire arise from the four sides, is greatly alarmed and makes the following reflection: ‘Although I have been able to escape safely through this burning doorway, all my children remain inside the burning house, happily attached to their amusements, unaware, unknowing, not alarmed and not afraid. The fire presses upon them and the pain will sear them, but at heart they do not mind it, nor have they any thought to escape.’

"Shariputra, the elder then reflects, ‘I have a strong body and arms. I might gather them in a cloth pouch or on a table and take them from the house.’ He further reflects, ‘This house has only one door and it is narrow and small. My sons are young and immature and as yet know nothing. Attached to their place of play, they may fall and be burnt in the fire. I must tell them of this frightful matter, that the house has caught fire, and they must hurry and come out so as not to be burned.’ So thinking, he speaks to his sons, saying, ‘Come out, all of you, quickly!’ Although the father, in his pity, induces them with good words, still all the sons are happily attached to their amusements and play and refuse to believe him. They are not frightend or afraid and have not the slightest intention of leaving. What is more, they don’t know what is meant by ‘fire,’ what is meant by ‘house’ or what is meant by ‘being lost.’ They merely run from east to west in play, staring at their father.

Then the elder has this thought, ‘The house is already ablaze with a great fire. If my sons and I do not get out in time we certainly shall be burned. I shall now devise an expedient device so that my sons can avoid this disaster.’ The father, knowing both the predispositions of his sons and the preferences each has for various precious toys and unusual playthings to which they happily responded, speaks to them saying, ‘The things you will love to play with are rare and hard to get. If you do not take them you will certainly regret it later. Things such as these: a variety of sheep carts, deer carts, and ox carts, are now outside the door for you to play with. All of you should quickly come out of this burning house and I shall give you whatever you want.’ Then the children, hearing their father speak of these precious playthings which suited their wishes exactly, eagerly push and shove one another aside in a mad scramble, all fighting to get out of the burning house. At that time, the elder, seeing that all his sons have gotten out safely and are seated on the ground at the crossroads, is without further obstruction; his mind is at peace and he is filled with joy. Then the children all speak to their father saying, ‘Father, the fine playthings you promised us a while ago, the sheep carts, the deer carts, and the ox carts, please give them to us now.’

"O Shariputra, at that time the elder gives to all of his sons equally a great cart. The cart is high and wide, adorned with a multitude of intertwining jewels, surrounded by railings, and hung with bells on its four sides. Further, it is covered with canopies, adorned with various rare and precious jewels, strung with jeweled cords and hung with flowered tassels. The cart is heaped with beautiful mats and set about with rosy cushions. It is yoked to an ox, plump and white and of fine appearance, of great muscular strength, who walks with even tread, as fleet as the wind, having also many servants who follow and guard it. And why is this? That great elder has limitless wealth and all manner of storehouses full to overflowing. So he reflects thus: ‘My possessions are boundless. I should not give my children small or inferior carts. All of these younsters are my children whom I love without partiality. Having such great carts made of the seven jewels, infinite in number, I should give them to each one equally. Why? If I gave them to an entire country, they would not run short; how much the less if I gave them to my children!’ Meanwhile, all of the children are riding around on the great carts, having got what they never expected to have, beyond their original hopes.

“Shariputra, what do you think? When that elder gives equally to all of his children the great jeweled carriages, is he guilty of falsehood or not?”

Shariputra replied, "No, World Honored One. The elder is not guilty of falsehood, for he has only enabled his children to avoid the calamity of fire, and has thereby saved their lives. Why is this? In saving their lives he has already given them a fine plaything. How much the more so his setting up of expedients to save them from the burning house.
“World Honored One, if that elder had not given them even so much as a single small cart, he still would not have been speaking falsely. Why? Because the elder previously had this thought, ‘I shall use expedients to lead my children out.’ For this reason he is not guilty of falsehood. He is even less guilty since, knowing his own wealth to be limitless and wishing to benefit all his children, he gives to them equally a great cart.”
 
Which is then explained thus:

The Buddha told Shariputra, "Good indeed, good indeed! It is just as you say.

"Shariputra, the Thus Come One is also like this in that he is a father to all in the world. He has forever ended all fear, weakness, worry, ignorance and obscurity. He has completely realized the limitless knowledge and vision, powers, and fearlessnesses. He has great spiritual might and the power of wisdom. He has perfected the Paramitas of Expedients and wisdom. He is greatly kind and compassionate. Never tiring, he ever seeks the good, benefitting all. And thus he is born in the Three Realms which are like a burning house. In order to save living beings from the fires of birth, old age, sickness, death, grief, misery, stupidity, dullness, and the Three Poisons. He teaches and transforms them, leading them to the attainment of Anuttarasamyaksambodhi.

"He sees all living beings are scorched by birth, old age, sickness, death, grief, and misery. They undergo various sufferings because of the Five Desires, wealth and profit. Further, because of their clinging and grasping, they presently undergo a mass of suffering and in the future will undergo suffering in the hells, among the animals, or hungry ghosts. If born in the heavens or among human beings, they will suffer poverty and distress, the suffering of being separated from what one loves, the suffering of being joined together with what one hates, and all the various sufferings such as these. However, living beings sunk in this morass, joyfully sport, unaware, unknowing, unalarmed and unafraid. They do not grow satiated nor do they seek liberation. In the burning house of the Three Realms they run about from east to west. Although they encounter tremendous suffering, they are not concerned.

"Shariuputra, having seen this, the Buddha further thinks, ‘I am the father of living beings. I should rescue them from this suffering and difficulty, and give them the limitless, boundless joy of the Buddha-wisdom to play with.’

"Shariputra, the Thus Come One further thinks, ‘If I merely use spiritual power and the power of wisdom, and cast aside expedients, praising for all living beings the power of the Thus Come One’s knowledge and vision, powers, and fearlessnesses, living beings will not be able to be saved in this way. Why is this? All of these living beings have not yet escaped birth, old age, sickness, death, grief and misery. They are being scorched in the burning house of the Three Realms. How could they understand the wisdom of the Buddha?’

"Shariputra, just as that elder, although he had a powerful body and arms, did not use them, but merely applied expedients with diligence to save all the children from disaster in the burning house, and afterwards gave to each of them a great cart adorned with precious jewels. In the same way, the Thus Come One, although he has powers and fearlessnesses, doe not use them. He merely uses wisdom and expedients to rescue living beings from the burning house of the Three Realms, speaking to them of Three Vehicles; that of Sound Hearer (声聞, Śrāvaka), Pratyeka Buddha (辟支佛), and Buddha Vehicle (佛乘, Buddhayāna).

"And he says to them, ‘All of you should take no pleasure in dwelling in the burning house of the Three Realms. Do not lust after vulgar and evil forms, sounds, smells, tastes and tangible objects. If you attach to them greedily and give rise to love for them you will be burnt. You should quickly escape the Three Realms and obtain the Three Vehicles; the Sound Hearer, Pratyeka Buddha, and Buddha Vehicles. I now give my pledge for this and it shall never be proved false. You need only diligently and vigorously cultivate.’ The Thus Come One using these expedient means leads all creatures.

"He further says, ‘You should all know that the Dharmas of the Three Vehicles have been praised by the sages. They will make you free, unbound, and self-reliant. Riding on these Three Vehicles, by means of non-outflow roots, powers, enlightenments, ways, Dhyanas, concentrations, liberations, Samadhis, and so on, you shall amuse yourselves and attain limitless peace and joy.’

"Shariputra, if there are living beings who inwardly possess the wisdom-nature, and hearing the Dharma from the Buddha, the World Honored One, believed and accepted it, diligently making progress, wishing quickly to escape the Three Realms and seeking Nirvana for themselves. They are called those of the Sound Hearer Vehicle. They are like the children who sought the sheep cart and thereby escaped from the burning house.

"If there are living beings who hearing the Dharma from the Buddha, the World Honored One, believed and accepted it, diligently making progress, and who seek for themselves spontaneous wisdom, delighting in solitude and fond of stillness, deeply understanding the causal conditions of all Dharmas, they are called those of the Pratyeka Buddha Vehicle. They are like the children who sought the deer cart and so escaped the burning house.

"If there are living beings who hearing the Dharma from the Buddha, the World Honored One, believed and accepted it, earnestly cultivating with vigor, seeking all-wisdom, untutored wisdom, the knowledge and vision fo the Thus Come One, his powers and fearlessnesses, pitying and comforting limitless living beings, benefitting gods and humans, saving all, they are called those of the Great Vehicle. Because the Bodhisattvas seek this vehicle, they are called Mahasattvas. They are like the children who sought the ox cart and so escaped the burning house.

"Shariputra, just as that elder, seeing all his children safely escape the burning house to a place of fearlessness, and considering his own unlimited wealth, gives to all of his children a great cart. Just so the Thus Come One, in the same way is the father of all living beings. When he sees limitless millions of living beings using the gateway of the Buddha’s teaching to get off the fearsome and dangerous path of the suffering of the Three Realms and attain the bliss of Nirvana, he has this thought, ‘I have limitless, boundless wisdom, powers, fearlessnesses and so on – the complete storehouse of the Buddhadharmas. All of these living beings are my children. I should give to all of them a great cart, not allowing them to gain individual extinction, but crossing them over to extinction by means of the Thus Come One’s extinction. Having escaped the Three Realms, all these living beings are given as playthings the Buddha’s Dhyana concentrations, liberations, and so forth, all of one mark and one kind, praised by the sages and productive of pure, wondrous, and foremost bliss.’

“Shariputra, just as that elder first having used the three carts to entice his children and then later having giventhem a great cart adorned with jewels and supremely comfortable, is not guilty of falsehood. Just so is the Thus Come One likewise not guilty of falsehoold in first speaking of the Three Vehicles to entice living beings and then afterwards delivering them only by means of Great Vehicle. What is the reason? The Thus Come One has limitless wisdom, powers and fearlessnesses, a storehouse of Dharmas, and is able to give to all living beings the Great Vehicle Dharma. Not all living beings, however, are able to accept it. Shariputra, because of these causes and conditions you should know that the Buddhas, using the power of expedient devices, in the One Buddha Vehicle, discriminate and speak of three.”
 
Also this, from the same:

At that time the World Honored One, knowing that the Bodhisattvas would not stop with three requests, spoke to them, saying, "You should listen attentively. The Thus Come One’s power of spiritual penetrations is acknowledged by all gods, humans, and asuras in the world. They say that Shakyamuni Buddha, having left the palace of the Shakyan clan and having gone to a place not far from the city of Gaya to sit in the Bodhimanda, has now attained anuttarā-samyak-saṃbodhi. However, good men, I actually realized Buddhahood limitless, boundless, hundreds of thousands of myriads of kotis of nayutas of eons ago.

“Suppose a person were to grind into fine motes of dust five hundred thousand myriads of kotis of nayutas of asamkhyeyas of three thousand great thousand world systems. Then, suppose he traveled to the east across five hundred thousand myriads of kotis of nayutas of asamkhyeyas of lands, and there he deposited one mote of dust. Suppose he continued in this way, traveling to the east, until all the motes of dust were gone. Good men, what do you think? Could the number of worlds he passed through be reckoned or counted?”

Maitreya Bodhisattva and the others all said to the Buddha, “World Honored One, those world systems would be limitless, boundless, beyond calculation, and beyond the power of the mind to know. All the Hearers and Pratyekabuddhas, using their nonoutflow wisdom, could not conceive of them or know their limit or number. We now dwell on the ground of avaivartika, but we cannot comprehend this matter, World Honored One, and so such world systems would be limitless and boundless.”

At that time the Buddha spoke to the great hosts of Bodhisattvas, saying, "Good men, I shall now explain this clearly for you. If all these world systems whether a dust mote was deposited in them or not were reduced to dust motes, and if each dust mote were an eon, the time that has passed since I became a Buddha would exceed even that by hundreds of thousands of myriads of kotis of nayutas of asamkhyeyas of eons. From that time on, I have always remained in the Saha World, speaking the Dharma to teach and transform beings. Also, in other places, in hundreds of thousands of myriads of kotis of nayutas of asamkhyeyas of lands, I have guided and benefited living beings.

"Good men, in that interval, I spoke of the Buddha Dipankara and others, and I further spoke of them as entering Nirvana, but those were just discriminations made expediently. Good men, if a living being comes before me, I observe with my Buddha eye his faith and other qualities, as well as the keenness or dullness of his faculties, and I take him across in an appropriate manner. In all places, although the names by which I refer to myself are different and I may be older or younger, I also appear and announce that I am about to enter Nirvana. I also employ various expedient devices, speaking the subtle and wonderful Dharma and enabling living beings to bring forth happiness in their minds. Good men, the Thus Come One, seeing living beings delighting in lesser dharmas, beings of scanty virtue and heavy defilements, speaks for these people, saying, ‘When young, I left the home-life and attained anuttarā-samyak-saṃbodhi.’ In truth, however, I became a Buddha a long time before that. I speak in this way merely as an expedient to teach and transform living beings and to cause them to enter the Buddha Way.

"Good men, the Sutras proclaimed by the Thus Come One are all for the purpose of saving and liberating living beings. He may speak of his own body, or he may speak of someone else’s body. He may manifest in his own body, or he may manifest in someone else’s body. He may manifest his own affairs, or he may manifest the affairs of others, but all that he says is true and not false. What is the reason for this? The Thus Come One knows and sees the triple realm as it really is. There is no birth or death, no retreating or advancing, no existence in the world or passage into quiescence. There is no reality or unreality, no likenesses or differences. He views the triple realm as not being the triple realm. Matters such as these, the Thus Come One clearly sees, without mistake or error. Living beings have various natures, various desires, various modes of conduct, and various ideas, thoughts, and discriminations. Wishing to lead them to produce the roots of goodness, he employs diverse causes and conditions, analogies, and expressions to explain the various dharmas, carrying out the Buddha’s work without respite.

"Thus since I realized Buddhahood in the very remote past, my life span has been limitless asamkhyeyas of eons, eternal and never extinguished. Good men, the life span I realized when formerly practicing the Bodhisattva path has not yet been exhausted and is twice that of the above number. As I now proclaim that I am about to enter quiescence, I am not really passing into quiescence. The Thus Come One uses this passing only as an expedient to teach and transform living beings.

"For what reason? If the Buddha were to stay in the world a long time, those of scanty virtue who do not plant good roots, who are poor and lowly, who covet the objects of the five desires, and who are caught in the net of schemes and false views, seeing the Thus Come One constantly present and not entering stillness, would become arrogant, lax, and indifferent. They would not consider how difficult it is to encounter him, nor would their hearts be reverent.

"For these reasons, the Thus Come One expediently says, ‘Bhikshus, you should know that it is difficult to meet with a Buddha appearing in the world.’ What is the reason? Those of scant virtue may pass through limitless hundreds of thousands of myriads of kotis of eons, during which time they may or may not see a Buddha. Because of that, I tell them, ‘Bhikshus, the Thus Come One is difficult to get to see.’ These living beings, hearing such words, will necessarily realize how difficult it is to get to encounter the Buddha and will cherish a longing for him. They will then plant good roots. That is why the Thus Come One, although he does not enter stillness, speaks of quiescence.
 
I am merely making a distinction between natural revelation and supernatural revelation (I think they are sometimes also referred to as general and special revelation.)

Here is a quote I found online about it:

“As the name implies, general revelation is the information and truths which God has revealed via ordinary means. Because human beings have a spiritual soul made in the image of God, we are capable of love, understanding and choice. With this, we are able to determine certain things about God by observing the world around us and contemplating the natural law which all men are endowed with.”

Source:
catholicbasictraining.com/apologetics/coursetexts/1i.htm

I am only saying that a Catholic may find parts of Buddhism to be natural truths (i.e. part of general revelation, or natural revelation.)

Do you accept such a distinction?
Yes but I still have to go back to my original question, What natural truth do you feel Buddhism has given us that was not revealed to us by God himself in the second person of the Trinity.

What I am saying is Buddha has not showed me anything that Jesus has not revealed to me.

He told us when we pray to go alone and spend our time with God. We learned how to pray from Jesus.

Jesus taught us to love one another as he has loved us.

I guess what I saying is although there are certain truths that Yes are revealed in Buddhism without God they would not even be truths.
 
(Continued)

"Further, good men, the Dharma of all Buddhas, Thus Come Ones, is like this and is used to save living beings. It is entirely true and not false. It is as if there were a good physician, wise and well versed in the medical arts and intelligent, who is skillful at healing the multitude of sicknesses. The man also has many sons ten, twenty or even a hundred. Then, called away on business, he travels to a far-off country. Meanwhile, the children drink some poison, which causes them to roll on the ground in delirium.

"Just then their father returns home. Because they drank the poison, some of the sons have lost their senses, while others have not. Seeing their father at a distance, they are all greatly happy. They bow to him, kneel, and inquire after him. ‘Welcome back in peace and safety. In our foolishness, we took some poison by mistake. We pray that you will rescue and heal us, and will restore our lives to us.’

"Seeing his children in such agony, the father consults his medical texts and then searches for fine herbs of good color, aroma, and flavor. He then grinds, sifts, and mixes them together, and gives the compound to his sons to take. And he says to them, ‘This is an excellent medicine of good, color, aroma, and flavor. Take it. Your agony will be relieved, and you will suffer no further torment.’

"Some among the children have not lost their senses. Seeing the fine medicine with its good color and aroma, they immediately take it and their sickness is completely cured. Although the others who have lost their senses rejoice in their father’s arrival, have inquired after his well-being, and have sought to be cured of their illnesses, they refuse to take the medicine. What is the reason? The poisonous vapors have entered them so deeply that they have lost their senses, and so they say that the medicine of good color and aroma is not good. The father then thinks, ‘How pitiful these children are! The poison has confused their minds. Although they rejoice to see me and ask me to rescue and cure them, still they refuse such good medicine as this. I should now set up an expedient device to induce them to take this medicine.’

"Immediately he says, ‘You should know that I am now old and weak, and my time of death has arrived. I will now leave this good medicine here for you to take. Have no worries about not recovering.’ Having instructed them in this way, he then returns to the far-off country and sends a messenger back to announce, ‘Your father is dead.’

"When the children hear that their father is dead, their hearts are struck with grief, and they think, ‘If our father were here, he would be compassionate and pity us, and we would have a savior and protector. Now he has forsaken us to die in another country, leaving us orphaned, with no one to rely upon.’ Constantly grieving, their minds then become awakened. They understand that the medicine has good color, aroma, and flavor. They take it immediately, and their poisonous sickness is completely cured. The father, hearing that his sons have been completely cured, then comes back, and they all see him.

“Good men, what do you think, could anyone say that this good physician has committed the offense of false speech?”

“No, World Honored One.”

The Buddha said, “I, too, am like that. I realized Buddhahood limitless, boundless, hundreds of thousands of myriads of kotis of nayutas of asamkhyeyas of eons ago. For the sake of living beings, I employ the power of expedients and say that I am about to enter quiescence. There is no one who can rightly say that I have committed the offense of false speech.”
 
rinnie,

What are your thoughts on all of this. In post #417 you said to me:
Okay I am glad you asked,😃 Now remember you asked me MY thoughts now.

My thoughts are I don’t believe you truly understand the Catholic faith at all or you do and turned you back on it completely.

I am hoping it is you truly do not understand the Catholic faith. It doesn’t bother me as much for people who never had the truth. They can’t be held accountable for what they don’t know or have.

But when you said (I hope it was you who said this, and I am not getting you mixed up again with another) that the nuns were very nice, etc. (By the way why did I get the mean ones and you get the nice ones:p) but you walked away from Jesus and the truth was revealed to you, Yes that bothered me.

What bothered me the most is you walked away from CHRIST the living bread from heaven in the Eucharist. Do you realize what you did. That honor and gift given to you from God. There is no practice in Buddha that you can ever do to replace the gift that God gave to you.

I wish you would go back, do a good confession, confess the crossroad you are in right now, sit at the Church, then be able to go back to communion and receive that wonderful food that is given to your soul (soul food :D) and truly see what you threw away.

And yes it does bother me, not in an angry way or stressed out way, it makes me sad. Not for God but for you.

Yes God gave you free will to pick and choose how you want to live your life. And if God gave it to you yes, I have no right to tell you how to live it. And I am not doing that.

But let me say this, and if it gets me thrown off of the site, I will take that chance. To say its okay to throw away your Catholic faith and teaching that was given to you for another teaching, NO its no Okay.

We all go through crossroads in our life, it usually hits older around 30’s or so, and usually something happens in our life that sends us searching. Its usually something bad, a death divorce, some kind of bad experience.

It happned to me in my early 40’s, God took my brother, and it took me ten years for God to answer my question WHY? And although I had no right to even ask I got my answer.

I said why God? Why did you not cure my brother from his brain tunor. He was 39 healthy as a horse, never sick a day in his life. And God told me I DID, I healed his soul and I took him home. And I am okay with it now.

But God knew not to give me my answer until I was ready to hear it. Where would I be today if I walked out on God and lost my faith? I would be lost.

But I knew he had his good reasons fro what he did, he always does. Most people are not lucky enough to get the answers until they meet him.

But what could Buddha have done for me?

But if you are asking me if your soul is in mortal danger? Do you reject God? Thats for you to answer. Can you get into heaven if you reject God? You went to a Catholic school what did they tell you?

You have until the last day to turn back to him. I pray you don’t wait that long.
 
Okay I am glad you asked,😃 Now remember you asked me MY thoughts now.

My thoughts are I don’t believe you truly understand the Catholic faith at all or you do and turned you back on it completely.

I am hoping it is you truly do not understand the Catholic faith. It doesn’t bother me as much for people who never had the truth. They can’t be held accountable for what they don’t know or have.

But when you said (I hope it was you who said this, and I am not getting you mixed up again with another) that the nuns were very nice, etc. (By the way why did I get the mean ones and you get the nice ones:p) but you walked away from Jesus and the truth was revealed to you, Yes that bothered me.

What bothered me the most is you walked away from CHRIST the living bread from heaven in the Eucharist. Do you realize what you did. That honor and gift given to you from God. There is no practice in Buddha that you can ever do to replace the gift that God gave to you.

I wish you would go back, do a good confession, confess the crossroad you are in right now, sit at the Church, then be able to go back to communion and receive that wonderful food that is given to your soul (soul food :D) and truly see what you threw away.

And yes it does bother me, not in an angry way or stressed out way, it makes me sad. Not for God but for you.

Yes God gave you free will to pick and choose how you want to live your life. And if God gave it to you yes, I have no right to tell you how to live it. And I am not doing that.

But let me say this, and if it gets me thrown off of the site, I will take that chance. To say its okay to throw away your Catholic faith and teaching that was given to you for another teaching, NO its no Okay.

We all go through crossroads in our life, it usually hits older around 30’s or so, and usually something happens in our life that sends us searching. Its usually something bad, a death divorce, some kind of bad experience.

It happned to me in my early 40’s, God took my brother, and it took me ten years for God to answer my question WHY? And although I had no right to even ask I got my answer.

I said why God? Why did you not cure my brother from his brain tunor. He was 39 healthy as a horse, never sick a day in his life. And God told me I DID, I healed his soul and I took him home. And I am okay with it now.

But God knew not to give me my answer until I was ready to hear it. Where would I be today if I walked out on God and lost my faith? I would be lost.

But I knew he had his good reasons fro what he did, he always does. Most people are not lucky enough to get the answers until they meet him.

But what could Buddha have done for me?

But if you are asking me if your soul is in mortal danger? Do you reject God? Thats for you to answer. Can you get into heaven if you reject God? You went to a Catholic school what did they tell you?

You have until the last day to turn back to him. I pray you don’t wait that long.
Amen sister.
 
Rinnie, they don’t believe in God, a divine being who is omniprescent, omniscience, etc. Nirvana is something to attain that can be done yourself through being a good person, meditating, etc.

It’s more like perfecting your own spirit, that’s what they believe.
I understand that. But I don’t believe y ou can perfect your own spirit. That’s where we are in disagreement.

In the Catholic teaching it was Christ who died for our sins, it was Christ that gave us eternal life, etc.

So look at this antoher way, It would be me a Catholic saying oh then because it is a good, go ahead and do that. No I can’t agree.

I can’t see turning you back on Christ for any reason.

Now let me ask you this, how do you feel you can do anything YOURSELF? Do you believe you can do this Nivanna without Christ and become a good person? Just asking:D

I guess thats why I can’t agree on this. I think Christ HAS to be the center of everything GOOD! And to teach otherwise is just not the truth.

Granted it may be MY Truth, and the Truth of Christ, But its the truth that has been revealed to me.
 
Do they? In what sense?

Indeed. And thus whether Buddhists reject it depends on the same thing.

Right. This is a good example of how quickly you are jumping to conclusions and judging Buddhism based on misunderstandings that you could have avoided with very little trouble.

That is not what Buddhists mean by “unconditioned” at all–at least not Theravada Buddhists.

Unconditioned means simply that it has no limits, thus you can’t describe it.

The apparent conflict with Christianity here is in the fact that Christians understand eternal life to be personal union with God.

But it’s tricky, because traditional Christian theology also says that God is indescribable and so is eternal life. God is not one person but three, and that itself points beyond the “conditions” that we normally attach to terms like “person.”

It changes you.

Which prayer also does.

If Christianity is true, as you and I believe, then Buddhist meditation may well be connecting with God even if that’s not how they describe it.

Edwin
Are you kidding me Edwin, Eternal life is the after life that we have promised to us by Christ. He promised us where I am going you can not go, But I will prepare a place for you. My house has many mansions.

Thats eternal life Edwin.

They believe in reincarnation. Please. Jesus said you only have One Body and One Spirit.

And explain this to me Edwin, how can you say that meditation in Buddhism connects with God when God is not the center of the meditation. We are taught when we meditate we must meditate on God. We are taught we have to concentrate on him because if we do not we can be led by a false spirit.🤷
 
The first two carvings are of Siddhattha Gotama, the Buddha. The first is of him in the position of the earth touching murda. The deva Mara challenges the Buddha to prove that the Buddha is worthy of enlightenment. The Buddha touches the earth to bear witness for him. Here is something on murdas. buddhas-online.com/mudras.html

The second carving is also representing the Buddha before he reached enlightenment. It is at the time he was studying with aesthetics. He was near starvation from austerities. He left these aesthetics and went to practice on his own, declaring that such practices as starvation actually stopped one from reaching enlightenment.

The last two pictures are not of the Buddha at all but of a Bodhisattva. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budai

As to the Lotus Suttra, it is not part of the Tipitaka but a teaching of Mahayana Buddhism which is a form of Buddhism that is practiced in China and Japan. Here is something by Wiki.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotus_Sutra
 
From what I have read a mara is a demon who assulted Budda and prevented him fromattaining enlightment. mara remeids buddhist’s that these demonic forces can be tamed by controlling ones, mind, cravings, attachments.

In Christianity luke 10:18 it tells us that the Power granted by JESUS makes satan fall like lightning from heaven,

Now do you see the problem again IMO this poses for Christians.

Who makes satan fall, Jesus or ones mind. IMO ones minds seems to trump God.🤷
 
rinnie;9561828]Okay I am glad you asked,😃 Now remember you asked me MY thoughts now.
My thoughts are I don’t believe you truly understand the Catholic faith at all or you do and turned you back on it completely.
I am hoping it is you truly do not understand the Catholic faith. It doesn’t bother me as much for people who never had the truth. They can’t be held accountable for what they don’t know or have.
But when you said (I hope it was you who said this, and I am not getting you mixed up again with another) that the nuns were very nice, etc. (By the way why did I get the mean ones and you get the nice ones:p) but you walked away from Jesus and the truth was revealed to you, Yes that bothered me.
What bothered me the most is you walked away from CHRIST the living bread from heaven in the Eucharist. Do you realize what you did
.

Yes, you are correct. I was informed and then after much thought rejected the information.
I wish you would go back, do a good confession, confess the crossroad you are in right now, sit at the Church, then be able to go back to communion and receive that wonderful food that is given to your soul (soul food :D) and truly see what you threw away.
And yes it does bother me, not in an angry way or stressed out way, it makes me sad. Not for God but for you.
Thank you so much for your kind concern. I understand that you are trying to protect me and wish me well. I wish the same for you.

A mind that, when touched
by the ways of the world,
is unshaken, sorrowless, dustless, at rest:
This is the highest protection. -Spn2.4

Yes God gave you free will to pick and choose how you want to live your life. And if God gave it to you yes, I have no right to tell you how to live it. And I am not doing that.
But let me say this, and if it gets me thrown off of the site, I will take that chance. To say its okay to throw away your Catholic faith and teaching that was given to you for another teaching, NO its no Okay.
In spite of the previous posts of quotes from Doctors of the Church and great theologians, most Catholics I have met believe just as you do. In fact several years ago, I posed this question on the Ask an Apologist thread. It took me several goes before I got someone to quote actual Church teaching but finally someone quoted a several theologians and a couple of Popes who agree with you. Needless to say, the thread was closed.
We all go through crossroads in our life, it usually hits older around 30’s or so, and usually something happens in our life that sends us searching. Its usually something bad, a death divorce, some kind of bad experience.
It happned to me in my early 40’s, God took my brother, and it took me ten years for God to answer my question WHY? And although I had no right to even ask I got my answer.
I said why God? Why did you not cure my brother from his brain tunor. He was 39 healthy as a horse, never sick a day in his life. And God told me I DID, I healed his soul and I took him home. And I am okay with it now.
I am glad you have found peace. I have lost a brother from cancer.
But if you are asking me if your soul is in mortal danger? Do you reject God? Thats for you to answer. Can you get into heaven if you reject God? You went to a Catholic school what did they tell you?
You have until the last day to turn back to him. I pray you don’t wait that long.
I was taught by the nuns just as you have been saying. One who turns from the church and does not return will pay the price.

I have had cancer and am still taking medication (not chemo) because of it. I have gone through two biopsies where the doctors thought the cancer had returned. This means that I have had three occasions to contemplate, in a very real way, my own death. My practice and confidence in Buddhism deepened.

Thank you for your comments.
 
The creator cannot be beyond change. The creator has to change from “I will create in the future,” to “I am creating now,” to “I have created.”
No, that begs the question–it presupposes a creator who moves through time. It also presupposes that creation is something in the creator and not just in the created. So there are two ways in which classical Christian metaphysics (as best represented by Aquinas) answers this challenge:
  1. Creation is a relation in the created but not in the creator. This may seem contradictory, but surely no more so than the paradoxes of Nagarjuna of which you are rightfully fond:D
  2. Since God is beyond time, it’s a mistake to speak of God first existing without creating, then creating, then existing after initial creation (or after the dissolution of creation). Rather, the timeless God (in traditional Christian metaphysics) creates a time-bound creation. On God’s side this is an eternal decision–there is never a time when God did not will to create. But God wills to create a world that is itself bounded by time.
Edwin
 
The first two carvings are of Siddhattha Gotama, the Buddha. The first is of him in the position of the earth touching murda. The deva Mara challenges the Buddha to prove that the Buddha is worthy of enlightenment. The Buddha touches the earth to bear witness for him. Here is something on murdas. buddhas-online.com/mudras.html

The second carving is also representing the Buddha before he reached enlightenment. It is at the time he was studying with aesthetics. He was near starvation from austerities. He left these aesthetics and went to practice on his own, declaring that such practices as starvation actually stopped one from reaching enlightenment.

The last two pictures are not of the Buddha at all but of a Bodhisattva. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budai
Gotta love Gandharan art. That emaciated Shakyamuni there is iconic: it was the picture that was chosen for the Buddha in my high school ethics textbook.
As to the Lotus Suttra, it is not part of the Tipitaka but a teaching of Mahayana Buddhism which is a form of Buddhism that is practiced in China and Japan. Here is something by Wiki.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotus_Sutra
I know about it. (I was the one who asked about Nichiren after all. :p) I’m actually asking about how a Theravadin would view the aforementioned passages.
 
.

Yes, you are correct. I was informed and then after much thought rejected the information.

Thank you so much for your kind concern. I understand that you are trying to protect me and wish me well. I wish the same for you.

A mind that, when touched
by the ways of the world,
is unshaken, sorrowless, dustless, at rest:
This is the highest protection. -Spn2.4


In spite of the previous posts of quotes from Doctors of the Church and great theologians, most Catholics I have met believe just as you do. In fact several years ago, I posed this question on the Ask an Apologist thread. It took me several goes before I got someone to quote actual Church teaching but finally someone quoted a several theologians and a couple of Popes who agree with you. Needless to say, the thread was closed.

I am glad you have found peace. I have lost a brother from cancer.

I was taught by the nuns just as you have been saying. One who turns from the church and does not return will pay the price.

I have had cancer and am still taking medication (not chemo) because of it. I have gone through two biopsies where the doctors thought the cancer had returned. This means that I have had three occasions to contemplate, in a very real way, my own death. My practice and confidence in Buddhism deepened.

Thank you for your comments.
Thank you for your kind comments. My husband also had cancer. He unfortunatley had the chemo. He said it was horrible.

I am so glad you did not have to have it. If you don’t mind I will pray for you.
 
I thought that Heresy was a mortal sin.
Yes, but you are only a formal heretic if you know the truth and reject it.

If you reject it in good faith then you are not culpable. But “good faith” doesn’t just mean that you sincerely believe it (then a Nazi wouldn’t be culpable for killing Jews if he sincerely believed it to be right)–it means that you must have come to that belief through genuinely being open to the truth.

Only God can know whether this is true or false in a given circumstance.
 
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