Ask a Gnostic Anything

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Parables are stories. I doubt that any of the parables Christ told were thought to be literal events, in the sense that they actually happened. They might of happened, but the point is the story, and what the story points to, not if it actually happened.Christi pax,

Lucretius
Hi Lucretius ,

Thanks for your response.

Yes, of course the parables were stories. However, my thoughts were that they have different interpretations depending upon whether or not one read them in Gnostic terms or catholic/Catholic terms. Perhaps I should have said the parables and sayings of Christ. I can’t think of a good example off top of my head ( I need to get to work!) . However, I can remember reading the story of the man who found treasure in a field etc. I suppose one could say that a catholic could say this represents hearing the word of the Lord and orientating their life around catholic beliefs and that a Gnostic would see a message representing union with the Divine in this life and consequently shunning the world. probably not a great explanation but I am in a bit of hurry 😃 I shall ponder more over this during the day 🙂

This , rather neatly, brings me to ( what is for me) the other salient point of Gnosticism: That the death and resurrection is in this life; that the passion of Christ represents being born anew in this life with a new understanding (Gnosis). In fact, many Gnostics mocked the Martyrs; they believed that they had completely misunderstood the meaning of the death and resurrection.
This is a major deviation from catholic beliefs which would be interesting to explore…
 
Have you read the first three books of the Old Testament? Third chapter, fifteenth verse, God curses Lucifer and his minions with the wrath of the Woman & Seed? The Proto-Evangelium. Pre-Good News.

Does your brand of Gnosticism have a tome?
 
Hi Lucretius ,

Thanks for your response.

Yes, of course the parables were stories. However, my thoughts were that they have different interpretations depending upon whether or not one read them in Gnostic terms or catholic/Catholic terms. Perhaps I should have said the parables and sayings of Christ. I can’t think of a good example off top of my head ( I need to get to work!) . However, I can remember reading the story of the man who found treasure in a field etc. I suppose one could say that a catholic could say this represents hearing the word of the Lord and orientating their life around catholic beliefs and that a Gnostic would see a message representing union with the Divine in this life and consequently shunning the world. probably not a great explanation but I am in a bit of hurry 😃 I shall ponder more over this during the day 🙂

This , rather neatly, brings me to ( what is for me) the other salient point of Gnosticism: That the death and resurrection is in this life; that the passion of Christ represents being born anew in this life with a new understanding (Gnosis). In fact, many Gnostics mocked the Martyrs; they believed that they had completely misunderstood the meaning of the death and resurrection.
This is a major deviation from catholic beliefs which would be interesting to explore…
This is an interesting interpretation (albeit heresy no doubt according to the Church) of the death and resurrection of Jesus.
 
This is an interesting interpretation (albeit heresy no doubt according to the Church) of the death and resurrection of Jesus.
You mean the interpretation of the resurrection? Yes, that it full on heresy.

I stand to be corrected by Thomas and Sophia, but I am quite certain of that. Well, at least as far as relying on the works of people like Elaine Pagels and Hans Jonas, as I recall.

It relates to what T & S say about achieving union with the divine through their own experiences. So, if they achieve said union, they have metaphorically died and been resurrected.
 
Hi Lucretius ,

Thanks for your response.

Yes, of course the parables were stories. However, my thoughts were that they have different interpretations depending upon whether or not one read them in Gnostic terms or catholic/Catholic terms. Perhaps I should have said the parables and sayings of Christ. I can’t think of a good example off top of my head ( I need to get to work!) . However, I can remember reading the story of the man who found treasure in a field etc. I suppose one could say that a catholic could say this represents hearing the word of the Lord and orientating their life around catholic beliefs and that a Gnostic would see a message representing union with the Divine in this life and consequently shunning the world. probably not a great explanation but I am in a bit of hurry 😃 I shall ponder more over this during the day 🙂

This , rather neatly, brings me to ( what is for me) the other salient point of Gnosticism: That the death and resurrection is in this life; that the passion of Christ represents being born anew in this life with a new understanding (Gnosis). In fact, many Gnostics mocked the Martyrs; they believed that they had completely misunderstood the meaning of the death and resurrection.
This is a major deviation from catholic beliefs which would be interesting to explore…
See, you just reminded me again why I will never be a Protestant. Sola Scriptura just doesn’t turn out right for people so far removed from the context in which the text was written. It is Tradition that “hands down” the context and interpretation of the text. Of course, this is less of a problem for Gnostics, because their way of interpretation began probably right before the end of the Apostolic era (St. Peter refutes some proto-Gnostic beliefs in his second (?) letter), when the Gentiles in the Church started to outnumber the Jews.

However, as I constantly point out on this thread, Jesus and his disciples were Jews, and would have used a Jewish worldview to understand the parables, NOT the neo-platonic views that the Gnostics use. The neo-platonic views didn’t pop up until there was a lot more Gentiles in the Church, who would bring such Greek views with them. An emphasis on knowledge is an aspect of the Greek worldview, which is why the Apostle writes:
Take care not to let anyone cheat you with his philosophizings, with empty phantasies drawn from human tradition, from worldly principles; they were never Christ’s teaching. (Colossians 2:8)
As you can see in the Colossian letter’s text, St. Paul is actually writing about two extremes: the Greeks going to the extremes with an emphasis on knowledge and philosophy, or Gnosticism, and the Jews going to the extremes with an emphasis on “worldly principles”, or the Mitzvot (these are the Judizers). St. Paul was trying to let the Greeks have a little bit different view (or emphasis) on things, as well as the Jews, but both sides ended up taking such views too far. You can see this attempt to compromise when he writes:
Here are the Jews asking for signs and wonders, here are the Greeks intent on their philosophy; but what we preach is Christ crucified; to the Jews, a discouragement, to the Gentiles, mere folly; but to us who have been called, Jew and Gentile alike, Christ the power of God, Christ the wisdom of God. So much wiser than men is God’s foolishness; so much stronger than men is God’s weakness. (1 Corinthians 1:22-25)
Christi pax,

Lucretius
 
Yes, of course the parables were stories. However, my thoughts were that they have different interpretations depending upon whether or not one read them in Gnostic terms or catholic/Catholic terms. Perhaps I should have said the parables and sayings of Christ. I can’t think of a good example off top of my head ( I need to get to work!) . However, I can remember reading the story of the man who found treasure in a field etc. I suppose one could say that a catholic could say this represents hearing the word of the Lord and orientating their life around catholic beliefs and that a Gnostic would see a message representing union with the Divine in this life and consequently shunning the world. probably not a great explanation but I am in a bit of hurry 😃 I shall ponder more over this during the day 🙂
Scripture certainly has many different levels of interpretation, and interpreting something symbolically doesn’t necessarily mean that it can’t be taken literally either. Gnostics would agree with Catholics on the four ways of interpreting scripture: literally, spiritually, allegorically, and anagogically. Of course, with the parables, they can’t really be taken literally because they’re told to illustrate a point Jesus wished to convey. But even the parables can have deeper and deeper meanings to them, the more you ponder them.

One way of looking at the parable of the treasure in the field, which Jesus says represents the kingdom of heaven, is to see it as that hidden treasure within each one of us that connects us to God. There’s a similar story in the Gospel of Thomas, where Jesus says: “The Father’s kingdom is like a person who had a treasure hidden in his field but did not know it. When he died, he left it to his son. The son did not know about it either. He took over the field and sold it. The buyer went plowing, discovered the treasure, and began to lend money at interest to whomever he wished.”

The GoT also says that the “kingdom is spread out upon the earth, but men don’t see it.” The fact that both the father and the son in this parable were ignorant of the treasure they possessed illustrates the ignorance that most people are happy to live in, and they missed out on receiving salvation. Whereas the buy not only discovered the treasure, but was able to spread that to others and also increase his own – helping others grow spiritually also helps us grow spiritually. “For he who shall give life to a single soul and liberate it, besides the Light that is in his own soul, he shall receive other glory in return for the soul he has liberated.”

By the way, I can’t emphasize enough, shunning the world isn’t a Gnostic concept. We’re to be in the world, but not of it… There is a lot in Gnostic scripture that seems to imply that we should hate the world, but there are also similar statements in the Bible – and Catholics don’t take that literally either. 😉
This, rather neatly, brings me to ( what is for me) the other salient point of Gnosticism: That the death and resurrection is in this life; that the passion of Christ represents being born anew in this life with a new understanding (Gnosis). In fact, many Gnostics mocked the Martyrs; they believed that they had completely misunderstood the meaning of the death and resurrection.
This is a major deviation from catholic beliefs which would be interesting to explore…
To Gnostics, the Passion of Christ was His incarnation, but here I think you’re talking about the crucifixion. That represents being liberated from the body, and existing in our true spiritual nature. We do have to receive the resurrection in this life – similar, I think, to how Catholics believe if you die in mortal sin you cannot enter heaven. The work must be done here on earth. The Gnostics did dislike martyrdom, but in context, that was because many early Christians were seeking out martyrdom so that they could die for their faith and go to heaven. Gnostics felt that that was pointless, and reduced salvation to nothing more than depending on your own murder to save you. But they also saw the persecution and execution of Christians as evidence of the archons fighting against Christian Truth. So while martyrs are to be honored, true martyrdom can’t come by seeking it out – *trying *to die for your faith is at best stupid, and and worst suicide.

On a side note, in my own tradition, we hold Requiem Masses every year to honor both the Cathar martyrs and the Knights Templar, as well as for the holy Tau Harmonius, a Gnostic bishop who was murdered by Nazis after saying Mass, and is considered the last of the Gnostic martyrs. So martyrs are still revered, Gnostic or otherwise, but the Cathars, Knights Templar, and Tau Harmonius didn’t seek out martyrdom – it found them. (Sorry for the long response! I tend to be wordy. :p)
 
For me, one of the interesting questions that Gnosticism poses is that of the nature of the parables. Gnostics will always interpret the parables as allegorical; the understanding of them demands esoteric knowledge. Righty or wrongly, my perception is that most non-Gnostic Christians interpret the parables in a literal sense.

I have been away from Christianity for a decade or two so I am eager to hear what others think on this matter.
This website presents the parables, and gives some commentary on each one from the Fathers, often St. Augustine or St. John Chrysostom: fisheaters.com/parables.html

Christi pax,

Lucretius
 
This website presents the parables, and gives some commentary on each one from the Fathers, often St. Augustine or St. John Chrysostom: fisheaters.com/parables.html

Christi pax,

Lucretius
Oh great! Thank-you very much 🙂

I am reading Jesus of Nazareth by pope Benedict XVI. It is an excellent book and he makes a very strong case for the need to see the NT within the context of the OT. In fact, as you also say, he claims that it is essential.
His book is providing me a great deal of confidence as I head back to my RC roots after many years as a practicing Theravadan Buddhist (preceded by years of interest in Gnosticism).
🙂
 
To Gnostics, the Passion of Christ was His incarnation, but here I think you’re talking about the crucifixion. That represents being liberated from the body, and existing in our true spiritual nature. We do have to receive the resurrection in this life – similar, I think, to how Catholics believe if you die in mortal sin you cannot enter heaven. The work must be done here on earth. The Gnostics did dislike martyrdom, but in context, that was because many early Christians were seeking out martyrdom so that they could die for their faith and go to heaven. Gnostics felt that that was pointless, and reduced salvation to nothing more than depending on your own murder to save you. But they also saw the persecution and execution of Christians as evidence of the archons fighting against Christian Truth. So while martyrs are to be honored, true martyrdom can’t come by seeking it out – *trying *to die for your faith is at best stupid, and and worst suicide.

(Sorry for the long response! I tend to be wordy. :p)
No need to apologise! It is fascinating to hear from a practicing Gnostic 🙂 Actually, that reminds me of an earlier question of mine: Can you provide an outline of the path to Gnosis; the practice? Is it guided meditation?

Regarding the resurrection: Yes, I take your point but I am not exactly sure what you mean about liberation from the body within the context of ‘dying’ and ‘resurrection’ in this life.

BTW did you have any comments n my previous comments re the journey through different spheres and being faced by terrifying archons along the way? I am not sure if that was part of the experience of Gnosis or occurred after death.
 
Oh great! Thank-you very much 🙂
You’re welcome 🙂
am reading Jesus of Nazareth by pope Benedict XVI. It is an excellent book and he makes a very strong case for the need to see the NT within the context of the OT. In fact, as you also say, he claims that it is essential.
I am reading Pope Benedict as well. He and N. T Wright, both scholars, have emphasis the Jewishness of Jesus and the New Testament (although I disagree with some of Wright’s interpretations).
His book is providing me a great deal of confidence as I head back to my RC roots after many years as a practicing Theravadan Buddhist (preceded by years of interest in Gnosticism).
🙂
Theravada Buddhism is the Buddhism I’m most knowledgeable about, since it is the type of Buddhism that directly traces back to the Buddha, and follows the closest to his teachings.

Since Buddhism puts an emphasis on meditation, I’m sure you are used to meditating quite a bit. Have you thought of looking into Christian meditation? It’s completely different then Buddhist meditation in aim. The Western Tradition uses the Rosary, and the Eastern Tradition uses the Jesus Prayer, for example.

Christi pax,

Lucretius
 
Since Buddhism puts an emphasis on meditation, I’m sure you are used to meditating quite a bit. Have you thought of looking into Christian meditation? It’s completely different then Buddhist meditation in aim. The Western Tradition uses the Rosary, and the Eastern Tradition uses the Jesus Prayer, for example.

Christi pax,

Lucretius
Yes, I have a daily practice and have been on many silent retreats lasting from 5 - 10 days at a time - tough going at times!

Regarding Christian meditation - I don’t really know much about it. I have been investigating contemplative/centering prayer a la Thomas Keating and am very interested in it. I didn’t know that the Western tradition was different from the Eastern when it came to meditation. In fact, I didn’t realise that mediation featured in Christianity until I started spending time in Cistercian monasteries (as one does !) last year. It seems to be a well kept secret 🙂
 
Yes, I have a daily practice and have been on many silent retreats lasting from 5 - 10 days at a time - tough going at times!

Regarding Christian meditation - I don’t really know much about it. I have been investigating contemplative/centering prayer a la Thomas Keating and am very interested in it. I didn’t know that the Western tradition was different from the Eastern when it came to meditation. In fact, I didn’t realise that mediation featured in Christianity until I started spending time in Cistercian monasteries (as one does !) last year. It seems to be a well kept secret 🙂
I blame the influence of Protestantism and the Culture it produced. Protestantism in general is almost completely devoid of contemplative prayer, while it makes up for it in hard work. The Eastern Christians still have a strong contemplative lifestyle, but very few Westerners know much about Eastern Christianity. In the West, the Rosary is the most obvious meditation: rosary-center.org/howto.htm#loaded . While praying the words (sort of like mantras in Buddhism), one is supposed to mediate on the Mysteries, which basically are the sum of the Gospels.

St. Teresa of Ávila (The Interior Castle: sacred-texts.com/chr/tic/) and St. John of the Cross (The Ascent of Mt. Carmel: ewtn.com/library/SOURCES/ASCENT-J.TXT) are some of the best Western Saints to read on contemplation (St. Teresa is the easiest to read). I personally try and meditate while reading the Desert Fathers as well. The Desert Fathers were hermits and monks who left to pray and live in the deserts in the east, copying Jesus’s 40 days in the desert (only they lived most of their lives there). They became wise and Holy as a result: www.copticbook.net/books/20101029002.pdf

I also would stay away from Centering prayers and the like, because 1) they might be a banned topic here on the forums, and 2) they are relatively new, and are based on eastern thought. If you want to know about Christian Spirituality, you should stick with the traditional.

Christi pax,

Lucretius
 
I also would stay away from Centering prayers and the like, because 1) they might be a banned topic here on the forums, and 2) they are relatively new, and are based on eastern thought. If you want to know about Christian Spirituality, you should stick with the traditional.

Christi pax,

Lucretius
Why is Centering Prayer a banned topic?
 
Yes, I have a daily practice and have been on many silent retreats lasting from 5 - 10 days at a time - tough going at times!

Regarding Christian meditation - I don’t really know much about it. I have been investigating contemplative/centering prayer a la Thomas Keating and am very interested in it. I didn’t know that the Western tradition was different from the Eastern when it came to meditation. In fact, I didn’t realise that mediation featured in Christianity until I started spending time in Cistercian monasteries (as one does !) last year. It seems to be a well kept secret 🙂
Have you ever heard of John Main’s Christian meditation? It may be a nice transition for you from Buddhism back into Catholicism.
 
Have you ever heard of John Main’s Christian meditation? It may be a nice transition for you from Buddhism back into Catholicism.
Thank-you for that information. I have heard of him; he has been mentioned in a meditation group I have attended at the local cathedral. I shall have to investigate further.

Re Gnosticism
I should be interested too hear your thoughts on this chap’s interpretation of the Gospel of Thomas (and his other writings as well). I have been perusing this over the last month or so and have found it to be quite fascinating. He doesn’t claim to be Gnostic but, since Gnosticism is a broad church, I suspect that much of what he has to say falls within the bounds of Gnosticism.

gospelofthomasfullyinterpreted.com/logia-1-to-10
 
Why is Centering Prayer a banned topic?
Here’s the stick (it’s in the “Spirituality” section): forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=434589
Klara Collins:
I want to remind our participants of Content Rule 6:

Do not post material from unapproved private revelations.

Material from unapproved private revelations includes:
Personally experienced ‘visions’
Messages God asked you to transmit
Messages from Bayside
Messages from Medjugorje, etc.

If you post material from unapproved private revelations, your account will be subject to the Enforcement Rules, which could include immediate suspension or banning of your account.

ALSO

The topic of centering prayer has become a disruption in the forums and is no longer permitted.

Any questions about centering prayer should be directed to our apologists. Before contacting them, please review these answers, articles, and programs from Catholic Answers about centering prayer:

What does the Pope think about centering prayer?
Is seeking contemplative prayer wrong?
Is Lectio Divina considered Centering Prayer?
Can Catholics engage in Centering Prayer?
Is Centering Prayer an authentic spirituality?
Is Centering Prayer Catholic meditation?

The Danger of Centering Prayer (This Rock: November 1997)
Letters in response (This Rock: February 1998)

What’s Wrong with Centering Prayer? by Clare Merkle
(Catholic Answers Live: Nov 6, 2006)
Learn to Discern: Christian or New Age? by Susan Brinkmann
(Catholic Answers Live: Oct 29, 2007)

Thanks for your cooperation!
Klara
I’m not sure if this ban applies to the non-Spirituality forums or not. I’m new here, I don’t know how things work yet 🙂

Christi pax,

Lucretius
 
Thank-you for that information. I have heard of him; he has been mentioned in a meditation group I have attended at the local cathedral. I shall have to investigate further.

Re Gnosticism
I should be interested too hear your thoughts on this chap’s interpretation of the Gospel of Thomas (and his other writings as well). I have been perusing this over the last month or so and have found it to be quite fascinating. He doesn’t claim to be Gnostic but, since Gnosticism is a broad church, I suspect that much of what he has to say falls within the bounds of Gnosticism.

gospelofthomasfullyinterpreted.com/logia-1-to-10
The problem with a lot of Gnostic texts is that we don’t know how to interpret it. They are usual highly symbolic, with hidden meanings all over the place. But you see, the Gnostics would often transmit the way of interpreting these texts in secret meetings (some texts more so then others). So when they died out, and when much of their writings were lost to the shipwrecks of time, the interpretation has been largely loss.

Now, using information that we know about Gnosticism, which often comes from the Church Father’s critiques, we can make “educated guesses” on some things in these texts. However, some texts, like the “Gospel of Judas” are just so strange and bizarre that, although there is meaning hidden there, the interpretation has been loss.

Furthermore, the “Gospel of Thomas” takes some text from the Four Gospels, and often attempts to “reword” it. For example:
Whereupon Jesus answered them, Give back to Caesar what is Caesar’s, and to God what is God’s. And they were lost in admiration of him.
vs.
He said to them, “Give the emperor what belongs to the emperor, give God what belongs to God, and give me what is mine.”
The first is from the Gospel of Mark, the second is from the “Gospel of Thomas.” Do you see how the Gnostics added on “and give me what is mine”?

The Gnostic believed that “God” is a second rate deity, that Jesus came to free them from (Sophia Christ has explained this earlier in the thread). Therefore, the text creates a difference between Jehovah and Jesus.

Also to note is that the “Gospel of Thomas” and the like were never considered Scripture by Christian groups, while text such as Didache and the Shepard of the Hermes were, even if they didn’t ultimately make it into the New Testament. To ask why the “Gospel of Thomas” was not put in the NT is like asking why the Aquarian Gospel of Jesus the Christ was not put into the NT 🤷

Christi pax,

Lucretius
 
I don’t believe that the Church as an institution received its authority from God. I believe that God reveals Himself in personal revelation not an authoritative body.
Do you think that God can reveal himself in ways that contradict?
 
Speaking of magicians aka illusionist: have you ever heard of this guy - David Blaine? This guy blows my mind. All of his illusions are performed out in the open with no props or sets, and I have no idea how he does many of them: youtube.com/watch?v=zr3R1D7GUU8
Well, not everything he does IS a trick. He revealed that when he pushes a large needle through his hand, he actually pushes a large needle through his hand. He just practiced over many years to avoid bleeding. He is just that -]devoted/-] crazy.
 
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