Ask A Mormon

[Stephen168]

I thought the “gospel” of the New Testament was the “good news,” and the “good news” was the beatific vision. Mormons reject the beatific vision therefore they reject the gospel of the New Testament.
So it seems that Mormons must have some completely different understanding of the “gospel.”

 

[RebeccaJ]

I thought the “gospel” of the New Testament was the “good news,” and the “good news” was the beatific vision. Mormons reject the beatific vision therefore they reject the gospel of the New Testament.
So it seems that Mormons must have some completely different understanding of the “gospel.”

When my daughter was 3 or 4 years old, she spent a day at my LDS mom’s house. Something she really enjoyed. But one day, while driving her home from my mom’s she asks, 'What’s the gospel?" Considering we were an atheist family, and had never brought up “gospel” in our home, ever, I knew my mom had been teaching my daughter about Mormonism (well intentioned of course). So I said, “It is what your grandma believes about God.”

YEARS later, I was thinking about this and was wondering how a Mormon would answer this question. lds.org answers it like this:

The gospel is our Heavenly Father’s plan of happiness. The central doctrine of the gospel is the Atonement of Jesus Christ. The Prophet Joseph Smith said, “The first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost” (Articles of Faith 1:4).

Additional Information
In its fulness, the gospel includes all the doctrines, principles, laws, ordinances, and covenants necessary for us to be exalted in the celestial kingdom. The Savior has promised that if we endure to the end, faithfully living the gospel, He will hold us guiltless before the Father at the Final Judgment (see 3 Nephi 27:16).

The fulness of the gospel has been preached in all ages when God’s children have been prepared to receive it. In the latter days, or the dispensation of the fulness of times, the gospel has been restored through the Prophet Joseph Smith.

So, I translate this as, for Mormonism, “gospel” = itself. I don’t think I’ve met a Mormon who has understood what the word “Gospel” means. ie, Good News, which isn’t Joseph Smith!

So much easier to preach the Good News of Jesus Christ:

Christ has died.
Christ has risen.
Christ will come again.

 

[kimg901]

Sharp eye Kim. “My gospel” refers to gospel of Jesus Chirst, as this is a revelation of Jesus Christ to Joseph Smith.

The churches had it right while the apostles were living. Therefore the Bible is right and should be used in teaching the gospel as verified in the D&C. I like all translations of the Bible except for the JWs.

While the apostles were living? Dont the mormons believe John is still walking the earth? So if thats the case, no apostacy

On a side note, I thought this was quite funny, does he really need more money,
ksl.com/?sid=24906725&nid=757&title=utahns-give-92m-to-romneys-presidential-campaign&fm=home_page&s_cid=queue-8

 

[twopekinguys]

Sharp eye Kim. “My gospel” refers to gospel of Jesus Chirst, as this is a revelation of Jesus Christ to Joseph Smith.

I thought you were going to say that Smith was channeling Jesus, like a flim flam medium.

You know, like Whoopi Goldberg’s character in “Ghost”

 

[Strevel]

I make this thread in the hopes that as a whole, we can better understand someone’s religion who is still affiliated with them. I’ve noticed a lot of threads about the Mormon Church and so I wanted to start this thread to answer any questions that someone might have about the faith.

I am a return missionary currently attending BYU, was born and raised in the covenant and attend church every week. I will do my best to answer any question to the best ability of a typical mormon. I’ll be truthful with my answers and won’t sugar coat anything. If I don’t know the answer, I’ll tell you. You can know what the church is teaching now, what it taught, and why the changes.

The only thing i do ask however, is that you refrain from questions regarding sacred promises and acts within the temple. We believe we have made a promise not to indulge what goes on purely out of respect for God and His Holy Temple.

Also, HUGE reason we believe things that we do is because we have first gained a testimony in the Book of Mormon, that Joseph Smith is a true prophet and has restored Christ’s church on the earth.

Also, i apologize if i can’t get to everyone’s questions, hopefully there are other LDS here who are willing to provide answers for you also.

Great to have you here. Don’t be concerned about the Temple Ceremonies as anyone can google for videos of the old ways of doing it and the new ways of doing it as well. So, there is no need whatsoever to ask anything aout that here. Its not secret, and sacred to you.
I was a Missionary as quite a few of us were. I seved my mission honorably, and got so full of the internal politics of the Prez running for GA, the DL running for ZL. To further the point of silliness, I read the documents themself on the Mountain Meadows Massacre, and Brigham did send them out to kill the people leaving the UT Valley into CA. The historical documents, the personal journals, the many wives of Joseph Smith, the …the list goes on… all contributed to me telling Salt Lake to go jump in the lake.
Keep in mind, clearly, that there are MANY returned Missionaries of all different ages here that are now Catholics. I am one of them. I went home after my Mission, to the Catholic faith. If you are seen proselytizing you will loose credibility and dumped on by a lot of people. A lot of us are friends here and have “back channel communication” as friends. So, if you are not sure of the way the Church teaches eternal progression, Kolob or Man becoming a God …some of us will look you right in the eye and correct you.

We welcome your participation in this Catholic group. We do not welcome the Mormon missionary spirit tho. If this disturbs you, learn to deal with it as it will make life and participation in this Catholic group easier.

On a friendly note, where did you serve your mission? just curious.

Pax Vobiscum, partia deo!

Don, dstrevel@gmail.com

 

[Strevel]

The Gospel can be defined as anything, any idea that has anything remotely related to Mormon teachings or iconography that makes you feel good. That good feeling is called a testimony. It is not based upon facts, just others group feelings and what you believe as an individual, aka “group psicosis”.
It is an emotion, also called a warm feeling in your chest. That warm feeling has such an etherial definition that anything from any emotion is “the Spirit bearing witness” to the truthfulness of my missionary message. Look at that from a psychological viewpoint.

Don, was a great Mormon, served Mission, EQ Teaches, Ward Clerk, and returned to the Catholic faith.

When my daughter was 3 or 4 years old, she spent a day at my LDS mom’s house. Something she really enjoyed. But one day, while driving her home from my mom’s she asks, 'What’s the gospel?" Considering we were an atheist family, and had never brought up “gospel” in our home, ever, I knew my mom had been teaching my daughter about Mormonism (well intentioned of course). So I said, “It is what your grandma believes about God.”

YEARS later, I was thinking about this and was wondering how a Mormon would answer this question. lds.org answers it like this:

So, I translate this as, for Mormonism, “gospel” = itself. I don’t think I’ve met a Mormon who has understood what the word “Gospel” means. ie, Good News, which isn’t Joseph Smith!

So much easier to preach the Good News of Jesus Christ:

Christ has died.
Christ has risen.
Christ will come again.

 

[twopekinguys]

Great to have you here. Don’t be concerned about the Temple Ceremonies as anyone can google for videos of the old ways of doing it and the new ways of doing it as well. So, there is no need whatsoever to ask anything aout that here. Its not secret, and sacred to you.
I was a Missionary as quite a few of us were. I seved my mission honorably, and got so full of the internal politics of the Prez running for GA, the DL running for ZL. To further the point of silliness, I read the documents themself on the Mountain Meadows Massacre, and Brigham did send them out to kill the people leaving the UT Valley into CA. The historical documents, the personal journals, the many wives of Joseph Smith, the …the list goes on… all contributed to me telling Salt Lake to go jump in the lake.
Keep in mind, clearly, that there are MANY returned Missionaries of all different ages here that are now Catholics. I am one of them. I went home after my Mission, to the Catholic faith. If you are seen proselytizing you will loose credibility and dumped on by a lot of people. A lot of us are friends here and have “back channel communication” as friends. So, if you are not sure of the way the Church teaches eternal progression, Kolob or Man becoming a God …some of us will look you right in the eye and correct you.

We welcome your participation in this Catholic group. We do not welcome the Mormon missionary spirit tho. If this disturbs you, learn to deal with it as it will make life and participation in this Catholic group easier.

On a friendly note, where did you serve your mission? just curious.

Pax Vobiscum, partia deo!

Don, dstrevel@gmail.com

I think the OP realized pretty early on that he bit off more than he could chew. Especially when he realized there were several very knowledgeable exmormons here.

I don’t see him coming back any time soon.

 

[Strevel]

H! Very valid point you make. Operating under the LDS incorrect view that everyone with the Priesthood died off, killed, …whatever… then the actual teaching that Jon from the Bible still walks the earth would negate that point. Now, if there was no apostasy due to John being on the earth, …then there was no need, and this is the LDS logic I am using, there was no apostasy and no need for Josephs several conflicting versions of his First Vision.
We, as Catholics knew that we hold a documentable like of Priesthood Authority from Jesus Christ himself. Jesus formed the Church.
I am prepared to share out views openly if required. The big difference is that I do not expect to argue scripture, but use common sense. I can, but when you have to people arguing it is hard to tell who the darned fool is, right. …common sense.

Don No longer Mormon, Proud Catholic!

While the apostles were living? Dont the mormons believe John is still walking the earth? So if thats the case, no apostacy

On a side note, I thought this was quite funny, does he really need more money,
ksl.com/?sid=24906725&nid=757&title=utahns-give-92m-to-romneys-presidential-campaign&fm=home_page&s_cid=queue-8

 

[Strevel]

The Christian understanding of the teachings of Jesus Christ and the Mormon (They are not considered Christian) views are not anywhere near the same.

Mormons say that they are Christians and believe in Christ. Someone materially correct me if I get this wrong. They created a view of Christ where he has a material body just like you do at this moment. His father, God, comes from a planet near Kolob. Both God and Christ have countless wives (more than umpteen quadrillions because we can count that far) that they have sex with to produce Spirits. How a physical ~body produces ~spirits makes no sense. High School biology teaches us better. But the say they believe in Christ, yea, I guess they do if you allow them to create something and call it Christ. Our Muslim brothers that do not claim to be Christians, believe in Christ as well, but they are not Christians and they know it…and will tell it to you.
When we go to Mass and the Priest holds up the Eucharist, …this is not what the Mormons believe in any form. They do not believe in the traditional understood Christ. They use the words, but the meanings are different. Like two, to, too, and in Spanish “tu”. They sound alike but the mental purpose and meaning are different.
Don

I thought the “gospel” of the New Testament was the “good news,” and the “good news” was the beatific vision. Mormons reject the beatific vision therefore they reject the gospel of the New Testament.
So it seems that Mormons must have some completely different understanding of the “gospel.”

 

[Strevel]

Yes, one post in a journal makes it all different.

In a Machiavellian world, and especially when dealing with Mormon theology, …there are two stories to every side. A person that follows someone will attest to their greatness. The followers of Mussolini, Hitler and Jim Jones will all sing their praises. That praising is expected from them, and has no bearing n reality. They are expected to say that.

Don

Do you know Joseph Smith? My great-great grandfather did. Here is quote from his journal (1840):

“after a year and a half’s careful investigation, becoming acquanted with Joseph Smith and the Mormon people, finding them an honest, industrious people, and most wickedly misrepresented, I presented myself for baptism.”

Please be aware there are two sides to the story.

 

[Strevel]

I think the OP realized pretty early on that he bit off more than he could chew. Especially when he realized there were several very knowledgeable exmormons here.

I don’t see him coming back any time soon.

It seems to me that he is having a bit if an issue disconnecting from his Mission. Sadly, the view that woulod cause someone to set themselves in a chair, on a stage or a forum, and invite people to ask questions is a bit, and I use this word with uncomfortability, arrogant. It operates on a premise that we re wild and untrained, uneducated and need someone that believes everything hie is told at such a young age.
I am Catholic because I have made an informed decision to be so. I am not unsure of myself or my beliefs. I thank the Lord for his loving mercies for me, a most unworthy sinner.

If he comes back,l we are well informed (moreso than he) on issues, history that he does not know of, and we can take him on in loving deft conversation / peaceful exchange of ideas. There are many people that left the Mormons here, and we are well informed.

Pax vobiscum,
Don in Vegas

 

[Strevel]

, they will gore your ox but hide theirs in the barn.

When the LDS change something they say that iti s done via revelation from Gods on mouth. I respond, “what then, he changed his mind”? They pull that inoperative ace out of their sleeve when they get backed into a corner. Which is often.

Don …

Here is a question I just thought of (forgive me if I’ve asked this before, but it’s a really important question and point to me):

LDS believe that one of the signs of the Great Apostasy is the changing of ordinances/sacraments. For example, LDS point to baptism as performed in the New Testament, and say that it was immersion. When pouring was introduced as a method for baptism, this is viewed as a sign of apostasy. There are multiple sources by LDS apologists and scholars, as well as official sources, that point to this as an important evidence of the restoration, since LDS allegedly restored the true original practice of baptism by full immersion (ignoring of course that Catholics/Orthodox have always practiced baptism by immersion, allowing pouring to be an additional mode, as we see in the East baptism are practically all practiced by immersion, so it was never lost).

The problem with this is that the LDS Church itself has had various evolutions in ordinances throughout its short history. For example, the Initiatory washing and anointing is not performed in the same manner today as it was performed prior to 2005. There is a clear change in the form or mode of performing the washing and anointing (I won’t get into it in this thread since some LDS may view that as too much info, however I’m sure the LDS and ex-LDS posters know what I’m talking about), just like the alleged change from baptism by immersion to pouring. So, how do you view that comparison in changing of an ordinance? Is this a sign of the LDS Church being in apostasy since it has changed various ordinances, ordinances believed to have been revealed by God?

If the answer is, the LDS Church has the authority to make those changes, and that presumably they were revealed changes, then why can’t the Catholics similarly claim that they had/have the authority to make changes to the ordinances/sacraments in the same way?

 

[Strevel]

Eh Texano,

felicidades por su bilidades!

Don, Las Vegies

I appreciate your willingness to jump into the arena. Just be prepared. Many of us will be making sure your answers are true and reflect ALL the teaching of the LDS Church.

I, too, am a returned missionary. I also served in EQ presidency and bishopric. I have attended many temples and was originally sealed in the Guatemala Temple after my Honduras mission and took out my endowments in the Idaho Falls Temple.

 

[Strevel]

For the help of us poor “ignunt fokes”, what are those numbers as questions? I thought it was Canon for a moment, hahahaha

Don, Las Vegies

Greetings mtolympus,

Glad to see that a Mormon has responded to this thread. There are several questions that have been asked of the Mormons that started this thread that are left unanswered. For example, I have several, including the ones at #126, #127, and #154. Could you please answer them?

thanks

fredystairs

 

[mtolympus]

Yes, one post in a journal makes it all different.

In a Machiavellian world, and especially when dealing with Mormon theology, …there are two stories to every side. A person that follows someone will attest to their greatness. The followers of Mussolini, Hitler and Jim Jones will all sing their praises. That praising is expected from them, and has no bearing n reality. They are expected to say that.

Don

OK, but where are the followers of Mussolini, Hitler and Jim Jones today?

Since the death of Joseph Smith those who believe he is a prophet of God have increased 100 fold. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has continued to grow, even against great opposition. Yes, one post in a jounral does make a difference.

 

[EdGraveline]

If Brigham Young was a true prophet, how come one of your later prophets overturned his declaration which stated that the black man could never hold the priesthood in the LDS Church until after the resurrection of all other races (Journal of Discourses, Dec. 12, 1854, 2:142-143)?

 

[lynnettejane]

Do you know Joseph Smith? My great-great grandfather did. Here is quote from his journal (1840):

“after a year and a half’s careful investigation, becoming acquanted with Joseph Smith and the Mormon people, finding them an honest, industrious people, and most wickedly misrepresented, I presented myself for baptism.”

Please be aware there are two sides to the story.

May I respectfully say that you did not become acquainted with JS, no-one who has joined your church has. In fact he once boasted that no-one knew his history, well Fawn Brodie found that his history could easily be pieced together using evidence from his own time, that was buried in the church historian’s office. The result was her excommunication. Since her seminal work in 1945, many more have gone on to describe him from sources other than the LDS church, a very different picture emerges than the one that the church puts forward, and it has proved to be and will continue to be the cause of many a destroyed testimony

 

[lynnettejane]

If Brigham Young was a true prophet, how come one of your later prophets overturned his declaration which stated that the black man could never hold the priesthood in the LDS Church until after the resurrection of all other races (Journal of Discourses, Dec. 12, 1854, 2:142-143)?

mormon doctrinal evolution

 

[lynnettejane]

OK, but where are the followers of Mussolini, Hitler and Jim Jones today?

Since the death of Joseph Smith those who believe he is a prophet of God have increased 100 fold. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has continued to grow, even against great opposition. Yes, one post in a jounral does make a difference.

The wheat has to grow up with the tares, the LDS church is a tree with a rotten root, that it has grown only demonstrates the strength of Satan and the ravening wolves that were predicted. A bad tree cannot bring forth good fruit, no matter how many temples, chapels and welfare programmes it may have. When presented to God he will say I never knew you. BTW what are the figures for those who have formally left the church. I read somewhere around 1.5 million…enough said

 

[Stephen168]

I was thinking the same thing tons of good questions and points but no Mormon response

The name of this thread is “Ask A Mormon.” It does say anything about giving answers.
The beauty of the Catholic Church is we have answers; a whole forum of answers.