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Portofino
Guest
Yes – the Catholic tradition does not believe in non-violence as an absolute. Those who disagreed with Tradition became Quakers, Amish, and other Christian pacifists. They took turning the cheek – and the disarming of Peter (“those who live by the sword will die by the sword”) – in full earnest, to the best of their understanding. They refused to shed blood. Like the apostles, they chose martyrdom over self-defense.
There are worse ways of breaking from Tradition, in my mind, seeing that they broke from tradition not in the name of violence, but in the name of non-violence.
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josh987654321
Guest
The Catholic Church may not believe in non-violence as an absolute, but I’m sure it believes in thou shalt not kill as an absolute, I can’t imagine someone could kill another person under any circumstance and yet the Catholic Church could be okay with that.
Like I said, sometimes it is necessary to “take a life to save a life” however you cannot just wash your hands of it, because God’s word is “Thou shalt not kill” there are no exceptions.
Anyway, I’ll try and find it in the CCC.
God Bless
Thank you for reading
Josh
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PRmerger
Guest
Actually, the correct way to express it is that the Church has an absolute that murder is always wrong, in all cases, in all times, in all cultures.
Killing, however, may indeed be justifiable (thus, the just war doctrine, and the concept of self defense for oneself or one’s family).
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Porknpie
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Interesting that the Pagan God’s point people to the Christian God.
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mlamg
Guest
The OP’s conception of the pagan gods is not every pagan’s conception of the pagan gods.
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rinnie
Guest
Why sorry buddy but sometimes in this world you have to go on faith, Some things just cannot be proved.I did not intend to imply that anyone who wrote about the resurrection of Christ is, because of that fact alone, rendered a Christian. But I think we all agree that Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John *were *Christians.
On reflection, I would also say that one could have testified to Jesus’ appearance, without necessarily believing in his resurrection. Pilate, for example, could have written a letter to his wife, something like, “I thought I crucified that guy!”(granted, that would have caused chaos and confusion, with people trying to apprehend Jesus a second time).
A resistant non-Christian could have argued, “we saw Jesus walking around, which led us to the obvious conclusion that he survived the crucifixion.” Then again, a resistant non-Christian – as you seem to be saying – could have seen the resurrected Christ walking around, and immediately believed (from what I remember, the crucifixion account has immediate converts, from the time that Christ dies and the earth quakes). But that still leaves room for non-Christians to have argued, “okay, Jesus appeared; but that doesn’t mean he rose from the dead!”
It may be that Jesus chose not to appear in public, deliberately. Indeed, there are no accounts in the gospels of new converts as people who saw the risen Jesus (even Thomas was already a disciple). It would be plausible to say that the appearance of the risen Jesus in the temple would have shaken things up quite a bit!
But, to get back to my point, I wouldn’t account any written testimonies of the appearance of Jesus after death to involve Christians, by definition. Scared, confused Jews could have grasped at straws and maintained that Jesus obviously survived, never having died in the first place.
I’m not saying this proves it never happened, just that it makes it more difficult to maintain that one has proven that it did happen. And, as I understand it, there are Christians who believe that the relatively private nature of the resurrection was deliberate, so that it would not eliminate the need for faith. The equivalent of a local newspaper report, or video eyewitnesses, would have taken away the need for faith.
Just so, if the bread obviously became flesh, and the wine obviously became blood, there would be no need for faith. But we’re talking here not about faith, but about reasonable historical proof.
My husband just told me yesterday how much he loves me, and has loved me from the day he set eyes on me.
Now you prove to me that he is lying, or that he is telling me the truth.
You cannot do so, Not all truth can be proved no matter how much science there is.
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Kallisto
Guest
Much like anyone of another religion, I came to Hellenismos from a desire to better understand the deities I’ve had a connection with and to strengthen my relationship with the divine. Have I had profound personal experiences? Yes. However, I don’t intend to discuss them on a public forum (no offense offered, I wouldn’t if this was a Hellenist forum either).
I would say my view on other gods is akin to that of kathenotheism or henotheism.
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mlamg
Guest
In my opinion, in order to judge whether something is probable or definite (truth), then there must be some observed event. Otherwise, it is indefinite or simply possible.
A religion is based on faith, not truth. Didn’t Jesus say blessed are those who believe without seeing? I don’t really understand why anyone feels the need to prove any religion is true.
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rinnie
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Well Jesus did. God himself by the power of the Holy Spirit became man.
He came and walked on this earth and said I AM the way the truth and the light whoever believes in me shall never die.
The reason Jesus needed to prove his way was the truth, was because in order to have eternal life after death you must follow, you must believe. You must confess and repent your sin. You must follow the commandments.
And he told us to GO and make disciples of ALL NATIONS.
That my friend is WHY my the way of Jesus IS based on not only faith but truth.
It is the TRUTH that will sent you free. It is the TRUTH that will give you eternal life in Christ.
That is why Christ is the TRUTH the light and the way!
It is the TRUTH that will sent your free, Not your faith in the truth.
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Skadi
Guest
The gods are just faces of the “Is All”, a pantheistic entity composed of all life which is transcendent and beyond time.
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Skadi
Guest
where have I ever said that? people keep implying that I think Fatima is the work of the pagan gods and I do not, there are no one knows how many other “supernatural” entitys beyond the gods that exist.
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PRmerger
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No, mlamg. That is not the Catholic position. We proclaim that our religion is based on Truth, and this Truth is so important it became Incarnate.
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Skadi
Guest
Well hes not catholic so thats not a problem for him.
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mlamg
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It’s certainly not the Catholic position and I never said it was. I do wonder, though, where faith comes into play for you, if you believe that the whole bible is completely true and the word of God. Why did Paul talk about having faith in the risen Christ, and why did Jesus stress how important faith is? It’s simple to follow a fact. Facts are indisputable. Where is your faith?
Obviously, if you are following a 100% truth, you need 0% faith.
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mlamg
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I’m a girl. 
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mlamg
Guest
Something can’t be based on both faith and truth at the same time. Either something is true, which requires no faith, or something is unknown, which requires faith.
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rinnie
Guest
Huh? So you are saying that we believe that God is truth, but just because we believe he is truth we do not need faith to follow that truth?
By the way what St Paul said faith without works is fruitless. Anotherwards if you have faith but refuse to use that faith and do good works your faith is worthless.
But that has nothing to do with truth and faith.
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rinnie
Guest
Sure it can. Christ is truth and it is believing in that truth and his grace that we gain faith.
Believing in Christ is not only true but requires faith. Because we cannot see Christ still does not make him unknown.
Jesus said it best. You believe in me because you see me, but blessed are those who do not see me but still believe.
There you have it truth that Christ exists, and faith believing the truth that Christ exists.
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mlamg
Guest
Wow, complete circular reasoning and word salad. I just don’t have time for this forum anymore. Not one answer here ever makes sense. It’s like trying to hit a target that keeps moving and moving…
Take care, all.
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