Ask a Pagan

[jamesjoseph72]

I felt a strong connection to the Germanic Pantheon because my ancestors are German, but I would have no problem celebrating a blot with people of any race or ethnicity.

But this is exactly what I’m trying to point out. Those of the direct ethnic group associated with a pagan practice through ethnicity feel a direct connection. Those that do not are welcome to worship, but are the others of the group. No matter how “soft” your polytheism may be, implicit in your own conection is the idea that those others would or should find a better connection with their pagan ancestors if they studied/understood their roots more. What does ancestry have to do with anything? From my perspective of being a member of a Universal church, ethnicity or ancestry has no bearing on the authenticity of worship. Again and again in this thread I’m seeing ancestry celebrated as a formative connection to the Divine.

 

[Skadi]

Thanks for participating! Questions:

So you believe that the gods are “real entities”, yet they are also “just faces of the true divine”? Could you clarify? What is “the true divine”?

Also, have you had experiences with the deities that you worship that point you to believe that they do in fact exist? Do your gods interact with humans? Where did they come from?

Perhaps related to my first question-So you being a “soft polytheist”, does that mean that you don’t believe that there is a “one true religion”? Now that I think about this, this is an interesting thought: I wonder how polytheists, “soft” or “hard”, view the existence of gods outside of their own pantheons. How does that work? Perhaps that’s a more pertinent question for a “hard polytheist”.

My opinion would be very similar to a Hindu, the gods are conscious entities, they exist, but they represent faces of the “Is all”, a pantheistic entity made up of everything, the “Ultimate God.” Some people go crazy when I use this example, but the “Ultimate God” is like the force in star wars, It surrounds us, penetrates us, binds the Galaxy together. The gods are incarnations of it. Now this is just me personal, and you will get different answers from different people on this issue. Most Germanic pagans tend to be “Hard” Polytheists while Celtic and Wiccans are usually “Soft”.

Ive never had something like a vision or a miracle from a particular diety, but then again most people on this planet will go their entire lives without that sort of thing happening to them.

I wouldn’t say there is necessarily “One true religion.” I do believe in absolute truth, but I believe various religions are simply culturally relative ways that universal truths are portrayed. For instance, unjustified murder or theft are condemned in essentially every religion and culture on earth. You could say i believe in deities outside my religion, id say they are just another cultures interpretation. Theoretically I could even claim that the Judeo-Christian god is a legitimate diety as YHWH was originally the head god of the Canaanite pantheon.

 

[Skadi]

In what ways, if any, do you run into prejudice in your life?

I don’t encounter It besides the occasional stupid comment I hear on Fox news. But those arn’t enough to make me quit watching it so I guess its not that big a deal. (Who else could I watch, MSNBC? Ha!)

I wear a Hammer of Thor necklace but I don’t wear my religion on my sleeve, I have no qualms about telling someone i’m pagan but I don’t tell people unless they ask. Most of my close friends seem to know without even asking just because when I swear involving a deity i do it in plural.

 

[joe371]

My opinion would be very similar to a Hindu, the gods are conscious entities, they exist, but they represent faces of the “Is all”, a pantheistic entity made up of everything, the “Ultimate God.” Some people go crazy when I use this example, but the “Ultimate God” is like the force in star wars, It surrounds us, penetrates us, binds the Galaxy together. The gods are incarnations of it. Now this is just me personal, and you will get different answers from different people on this issue. Most Germanic pagans tend to be “Hard” Polytheists while Celtic and Wiccans are usually “Soft”.

Ive never had something like a vision or a miracle from a particular diety, but then again most people on this planet will go their entire lives without that sort of thing happening to them.

I wouldn’t say there is necessarily “One true religion.” I do believe in absolute truth, but I believe various religions are simply culturally relative ways that universal truths are portrayed. For instance, unjustified murder or theft are condemned in essentially every religion and culture on earth. You could say i believe in deities outside my religion, id say they are just another cultures interpretation. Theoretically I could even claim that the Judeo-Christian god is a legitimate diety as YHWH was originally the head god of the Canaanite pantheon.

What are your beliefs about who Jesus is, if you don’t mind me asking?

 

[Skadi]

But this is exactly what I’m trying to point out. Those of the direct ethnic group associated with a pagan practice through ethnicity feel a direct connection. Those that do not are welcome to worship, but are the others of the group. No matter how “soft” your polytheism may be, implicit in your own conection is the idea that those others would or should find a better connection with their pagan ancestors if they studied/understood their roots more. What does ancestry have to do with anything? From my perspective of being a member of a Universal church, ethnicity or ancestry has no bearing on the authenticity of worship. Again and again in this thread I’m seeing ancestry celebrated as a formative connection to the Divine.

Well, I would say that alot of Pagans, especially the Slavic and Germanic ones, are ethnicly that of their religion. This isn’t so much in others because of their romanticized appeal in western media, and especially in Khemetic paganism because there arn’t a ton of people running around with ancient Egyptian blood in them.

I feel a loyalty, a connection, because these are the gods of my ancestors. Like I said I dont have a problem with people who arn’t German or Swedish or Danish or Dutch practicing at all, but I do feel a connection. Why do Irish people often feel a connection to St. Patrick? hes the patron saint of Ireland. Any Catholic could pray to him but Irish Catholics seem to have a special attraction to him.

 

[Skadi]

What are your beliefs about who Jesus is, if you don’t mind me asking?

Personally? Nice guy, had some good ideas, probably blown out of proportion in the years following his death by early Christians. I don’t believe he is the son of god, although miracles are possible, most pagans would say that someone magically or psychically gifted enough, and with divine aid, could do those things.

 

[joe371]

Personally? Nice guy, had some good ideas, probably blown out of proportion in the years following his death by early Christians. I don’t believe he is the son of god, although miracles are possible, most pagans would say that someone magically or psychically gifted enough, and with divine aid, could do those things.

Do you believe the following to be gods i.e. they are what Christians believe about the holy Trinity? Just making sure that I am interpreting that correctly.

God of war, single combat, Victory, and Honor, and Skadi, Goddess of Skiing and the hunt.

As a pagan, are you at all impressed with what happened in Fatima in terms of the accurate prediction by the 3 little children, and the miracle of the sun, witnessed by thousands of people, especially scoffing nonbelievers? I mean, it was a modern-day event…

 

[jamesjoseph72]

Why do Irish people often feel a connection to St. Patrick? hes the patron saint of Ireland. Any Catholic could pray to him but Irish Catholics seem to have a special attraction to him.

Touche and nicely done

In an ecumenical spirit:

So you have a special devotion to Týr, as you’ve stated. Could you describe what his sacrifice of his arm in the mouth of Fenris means to you? Do you see this in any way as an analog to Christ?

Additionally, with Odin (or Woden) sacrificing an eye to give people of Midgard a language, do you see a parellel with Christ?

Thank you for replying to my previous posts.

James

 

[TypesAndShadows]

Ive never had something like a vision or a miracle from a particular diety, but then again most people on this planet will go their entire lives without that sort of thing happening to them.

I find this a little odd. My experience has been that most Catholics who are willing to talk about it have had some sort of “encounter with the divine”, and recognise what I mean when I call it that. Only a few get what can fairly be called “visions”, but most get some sort of “feedback” from God at some point.

This has also been the case with non-Catholic religious people I’ve talked to about this sort of thing, although I haven’t really talked about this with pagans before.

Why do you think you’ve never had this sort of experience? And if you haven’t, in what way did the gods call to you?

 

[Skadi]

Do you believe the following to be gods i.e. they are what Christians believe about the holy Trinity? Just making sure that I am interpreting that correctly.

As a pagan, are you at all impressed with what happened in Fatima in terms of the accurate prediction by the 3 little children, and the miracle of the sun, witnessed by thousands of people, especially scoffing nonbelievers? I mean, it was a modern-day event…

I wouldnt qualify Jesus as a god, but a very gifted man or possibly some sort of powerful spirit assuming human form (a common theme in Hinduism).

As for Fatima, Many people have great psychic gifts or are contacted by powerful entities. The predictions are very correct so I see no reason to believe the Children weren’t psychic or in contact with some powerful entity.

 

[Skadi]

Touche and nicely done

In an ecumenical spirit:

So you have a special devotion to Týr, as you’ve stated. Could you describe what his sacrifice of his arm in the mouth of Fenris means to you? Do you see this in any way as an analog to Christ?

Additionally, with Odin (or Woden) sacrificing an eye to give people of Midgard a language, do you see a parellel with Christ?

Thank you for replying to my previous posts.

James

Well, there are some similar things between Tyrs sacrifice of his right arm to bind Fenrir and the stories of Jesus. In fact there are similar sorts of stories in many religions, Mithras, Horace, Vishnu, Thor, and Jesus are all very similar in their stories or job descriptions which I personally think speaks to the underlying similarities of human religion. For me, I see Tyrs sacrifice as a example of great self sacrifice, Tyr gave up his sword arm to save the world from destruction at the hands of Fenrir, and I think its an example of making an honorable sacrifice in the fight against evil.

Odins sacrificing of his Eye is also a very symbolic thing in my opinion. Odin gave his own eye to acquire knowledge, and I think it speaks to the significance of knowledge, that it is true power, not brute force.

 

[FrancisBenedict]

With respect,

You see parallels between Jesus’ actions and divine stories in other religions.

Christianity is the only, as far as I know, religion with such a strong historical record of an actual man who is understood to have this divine nature, walking on the earth with us.

Do you see any conclusions from that?

 

[JMJ_coder]

A couple of questions at this moment about your beliefs.

• How did we get here? That is, what is your story of creation?
• What is the purpose of our existence?
• What is your take on good and evil?
• How do you know what is right, moral, and just?
• What makes your deities worthy of your adulation?

 

[snarflemike]

So, seeing as there are a couple other threads thrown up by people of various faiths for questions on their religion i figured id do it too.

“Ask a Pagan” is a very broad term though and Paganism is not itself a religion but a blanket term for many who form a sort of community. In addition, various Pagan faiths are very eclectic and there is no Bible or Catechism to outline beliefs, but I have a good general knowledge of paganism (and the occult sense I know the questions are coming) and I’ll do my best to answer any questions.

I was raised catholic and went k-12 in the catholic school system, learned catholic doctrine and apologetics, and understand Catholicisms teachings pretty well. So I look forward to any questions you may have or discussions that may come.

Stay classy Catholics

Does today’s paganism have anything to do with true (that is, ancient) paganism? I’ve heard many people argue that there is no substantive connection. Comments?

 

[FabiusMaximus]

Well, I was raised in a nominally Catholic house, we went to church about 7-8 times a year and i went every week at school, but as I got older and began exploring (first through books and TV and then through travel) the rest of the world I sort of fell into agnosticism. Eventualy I came to the conclusion that I would leave god alone and he would leave me alone.

Senior year of High school i took a world religions class, briefly considered Islam and then Shinto-Buddhism and then wound up getting into Wicca. I did that for a few months but in the end the religion is just a little to fluffy and effeminate for me, It relay is a religion that is geared more towards 20 year old women in its practice.

So, I stepped away from the magic based elements of paganism but retained my soft polytheistic world view and chose the Germanic pantheon to follow sense I’m ethnically German. Like I said im a soft polytheist so I dont take stories like the Poetic Edas literally, but see the gods as real entities which represent elements of the supreme divine in a culturally relative context.

Paganism is a broad category that cover alot of very dissimilar religions, but my particular one (Germanic/Asatru) Basically is a reconstructed religion of ancient German speaking peoples like the Anglo-Saxons, Goths, Vandals, Alemani, Suebi, Vikings, and Swedes. Most people know Odin and his son Thor but there are two entire tribes of Gods, the Aesir and Vannir, as well as numerous Jotun (Giants) who may intermary and be considered gods (Like Loki or Skadi) or in most cases serve as the antagonists and rivals of the gods. Valhalla, Odins great hall and the equivalent of heaven, is home to the greatest warriors who have died honorably in battle, and they feast and spar all day and night in preparation for Ragnarok, the battle at the end of the world. Those who do not go to Valhalla go to Hel, which unlike the christian Hell with 2 L’s is not a place of suffering but simply the next life.

As for texts, most that was written is lost to the ages. What does remain are scattered Runestones in northern Europe and some ancient manuscripts that were translated by christian monks in the 12th and 13th century. These manuscripts usually don’t get the sort of total trust that Christians give the bible because its a general consensus they were probably altered in some form by the monks who translated them.

Hello, I’m hoping you can clarify a couple things:

• I know you stated you had a preference for Wicca in your class, and eventually moved on to ancient German paganism. But what drew you to the conclusion that there were multiple gods instead of one? After all, if you were initially interested in Islam, something must have drawn you to that conclusion.
• Additionally, you make mention that you chose German paganism over other forms because that is your heritage. But shouldn’t the choice of picking a religion be based upon what seems to be the absolute* truth*, instead of what you like best? I don’t mean to be disrespectful here, I hope that’s clear. It’s just that picking a faith is something more important than something one simply “likes.” I love my Italian heritage, and the history of Ancient Rome, but I certainly couldn’t imagine worshiping the early gods of the Roman Empire. And while Roman Catholicism has been a part of Italian culture for probably about the same amount of time (if not longer) as the traditional gods in Roman Italy, I wouldn’t consider converting to Catholicism on that point. If I find that the Roman Catholic Church is what she claims to be - the one, true, and fullest expression of the faith Jesus Christ handed to the apostles - then that’s why I would convert. If I instead find tomorrow that Coptic Orthodoxy was really it all along, I would convert to that. The same would be true for any religion.
• Also, if there are very little texts and knowledge of how to worship the ancient gods of the Germanic tribes, then how do you know you’re worshiping them properly? Shouldn’t your practices imitate those of your German ancestors?

Again, please understand I’m not attempting to be disrespectful or dismissive, I am simply trying to grasp your side.

 

[Skadi]

Does today’s paganism have anything to do with true (that is, ancient) paganism? I’ve heard many people argue that there is no substantive connection. Comments?

Yes, this is the main issue facing paganism at the moment. There are esentialy two camps here, the Reconstrutionists who seek to make as accurate a a recreation as possible, and the Modernist or Eclectics who are more relaxed in their practice. One common claim of themore relaxed pagans is that had the original faiths survived they would have undergone the same liberalization that has happened to other major religions in the past few centuries.

Sense none of these religions survived the Christianization of the West, there is no direct link, like how the Catholics and Orthodox can with their Bishops. Some however have much more information left than others. Roman, Greek, and Egyptian paganism have quite a bit to go on as many records were left by the empires that practiced them. Roman in particular is extremely well documented and thus easier to recreate. Those based on Norther European groups, the Celtic, German, Slavic, and Druid groups, have much less to go on. Stonehenge is an impressive show of ancient mathematics in its design, but it tells you alot less about their religion than say a slab of Hieroglyphics or a old Roman history book. Combine that with the fact that alot of what we do have about these religion was translated by Christian monks with who knows what agenda and the generally accepted fact that local stories were altered to ease the conversion of local people, you cant totally trust any of the old written records besides those carved in stone.

But this looks trivial compared to the succession issues of Wicca. They are a good mix of Celtic paganism with some New Age and Ceremonial and Folk Magic. Gardner claimed he learned Wicca from the last of a group of ancient witches but there is no evidence to substantiate this claim. So, despite some Wiccans claim that Wicca is some ancient religion which was persecuted in the witch hunts of the middle ages, this is wishful thinking and no evidence suggests Wicca existed before Gardner founded the New Forest Coven in the 30’s.

 

[WiccanWoman]

Yes, this is the main issue facing paganism at the moment. There are esentialy two camps here, the Reconstrutionists who seek to make as accurate a a recreation as possible, and the Modernist or Eclectics who are more relaxed in their practice. One common claim of the more relaxed pagans is that had the original faiths survived they would have undergone the same liberalization that has happened to other major religions in the past few centuries. . . .

Hail, Skadi. Following your train of thought and accepting your definitions to work with, I suppose I can be classified as a “Reconstructionist Eclectic” Pagan. How do you define “Modernist?” (I admit to being unfamiliar with these terms.)

. . . But this looks trivial compared to the succession issues of Wicca. They are a good mix of Celtic paganism with some New Age and Ceremonial and Folk Magic. Gardner claimed he learned Wicca from the last of a group of ancient witches but there is no evidence to substantiate this claim. So, despite some Wiccans claim that Wicca is some ancient religion which was persecuted in the witch hunts of the middle ages, this is wishful thinking and no evidence suggests Wicca existed before Gardner founded the New Forest Coven in the 30’s.

I believe this to be true. There is little - in any - such “evidence” re: Gardner’s claims… although I suppose it makes no difference to those who follow Gardnerian Wicca.

Blessings.

 

[Publisher]

But from your post, Ancestry is a determinate factor in who the “gods” call out to, though they accept “others” too.

I would disagree with defining a singular paganism with an authority to define the movement. There are many separate pagan tendencies, and some of these are ethnically exclusive by dint of creed or being the objects that are “called upon” by specific pantheons.

Thank you for replying from an outsiders perspective on pagan tradition regarding what pagans may or may not believe. I too have associates that are pagan, but their notions of paganism are almost exclusively ethnicity based. That, to me, is a problem.

James

I don’t believe I “defined a singular paganism”…nor did I state any “pagan authority” to define the movement.

As most Pagans believe they’ve lived multiple times…and traveled the Road with those who they now share incarnation with…it would seem a perfectly logical idea that one’s ethnicity and multiple times upon the Wheel of that ethnicity…one would be more comfortable and familiar with the Gods of their “befores”. Paganism isn’t concerned with any central authority…it derives it’s views and beliefs from Nature.

Nature is both loving and hostile…joyous and sad…it’s power is fearful as those who have survived hurricanes, tornadoes, earthquakes and volcanoes can attest to…but it is also benificent and caring, bountiful and beautiful…so are the Gods as the Gods are reflectred in Nature and Nature reflects the Gods.

 

[LivingWaters7]

My opinion would be very similar to a Hindu, the gods are conscious entities, they exist, but they represent faces of the “Is all”, a pantheistic entity made up of everything, the “Ultimate God.” Some people go crazy when I use this example, but the “Ultimate God” is like the force in star wars, It surrounds us, penetrates us, binds the Galaxy together. The gods are incarnations of it. Now this is just me personal, and you will get different answers from different people on this issue. Most Germanic pagans tend to be “Hard” Polytheists while Celtic and Wiccans are usually “Soft”.

Ah okay, that makes sense (I have Hindu relatives, so I’m familiar with the faces of the “all”/Brahman view).

So as a soft polytheist, do you believe that all deities of all cultures exist?

Ive never had something like a vision or a miracle from a particular diety, but then again most people on this planet will go their entire lives without that sort of thing happening to them.

Well, I’m not necessarily talking about a big miraculous event, divine entities appearing to you, etc. I think that many Christians believe that they have had spiritual experiences with the Divine/God that confirm their beliefs. I know that in Mormonism, the “witness of the Holy Ghost”/“confirmation by the Spirit” is highly emphasized, as is “personal revelation”, feeling God’s presence in temples, etc. It is believed that God interacts with humans in various ways, some more common than others, but He does interact with us.

So, I’m wondering if there is anything similar in your Pagan path, if the gods are believed to interact with humans these days (and not just in the mythical stories that may be part of your religious literature).

I wouldn’t say there is necessarily “One true religion.” I do believe in absolute truth, but I believe various religions are simply culturally relative ways that universal truths are portrayed. For instance, unjustified murder or theft are condemned in essentially every religion and culture on earth. You could say i believe in deities outside my religion, id say they are just another cultures interpretation. Theoretically I could even claim that the Judeo-Christian god is a legitimate diety as YHWH was originally the head god of the Canaanite pantheon.

Ok. So I guess that’s related to what I asked above, about the deities of other cultures existing as real entities.

If you already answered this, sorry: why did you, and others, leave Christianity for Paganism? I’m not asking this in an accusatory manner (I know that such questions frequently are). I guess I’m just wondering how, if someone used to believe that Christ suffered and died for us, and that it is through Him that we are saved, sin, etc, to believing in other deities and the practices and beliefs surrounding them. While Pagans may not necessarily believe in a “one true religion”, they still do believe that their gods are real, and that what they’re doing and believing isn’t just make believe. So, I’m just curious about the stories of those that make such a transition. For me, it seems easier to wrap my head around someone that goes from, for example, Catholicism to Mormonism, than Catholicism to Paganism.

 

[WiccanWoman]

If you already answered this, sorry: why did you, and others, leave Christianity for Paganism? I’m not asking this in an accusatory manner (I know that such questions frequently are). I guess I’m just wondering how, if someone used to believe that Christ suffered and died for us, and that it is through Him that we are saved, sin, etc, to believing in other deities and the practices and beliefs surrounding them. While Pagans may not necessarily believe in a “one true religion”, they still do believe that their gods are real, and that what they’re doing and believing isn’t just make believe. So, I’m just curious about the stories of those that make such a transition. For me, it seems easier to wrap my head around someone that goes from, for example, Catholicism to Mormonism, than Catholicism to Paganism.

Greetings, LivingWaters. I see that you’ve addressed your question to the O/P, but if you are interested in a response from another, please let me know and I’ll offer you my own. I am sure that it will be unlike his – I have read all the above posts, and we are different in several beliefs.

Namaste.