Ask a Pagan

[Skadi]

Yes. It’s an analogy, Skadi.

Take this very simple analogy:

Christmas tree : ornament :: Earlobe : earring.

Someone who has an inability to think in the abstract might take offense to the above analogy and state, “How dare you compare a majestic, splendid Christmas tree with a fleshy piece of cartilage!” but that would only demonstrate his inability to grasp analogies.

So you do understand how a 5 year old would think that his daddy was not very loving for giving him 5 shots, while the daddy is indeed loving him, right?

I’m not offended. I’m just pointing out that the christian God orders some stuff the seems very contrary to his stated nature.

I use analogies more than anyone I know, but would you be offended if I said “The Holocaust was just like stubbing your toe, sure it hurts for a while, but its bound to happen sooner or later.”? Belittling murder isn’t something thats generally considered good analogical material.

I understand that such things were a common part of ancient warfare but this is something that the judeo-christian god commanded to happen. The same guy who says “love thy neighbor as thyself” ordering a town put to the sword because its people had the misfortune of being born into a pagan society that was living in the land the jews formerly inhabited.

 

[joe371]

Personally i believe that there was some trickery preformed in Jesus’s “resurection” preformed either before or after the crucifixion. And men have gone to their deaths for other faiths as well, men of other faiths have preformed miracles. While I respect a martyr of any faith (and no I don’t consider suicide bombers martyrs) I don’t believe martyrdom makes ones faith any more believable.

What kind of trickery? Example? Which men of other faiths have preformed miracles? Could you be specific? I would like to investigate any genuine miracles worked by men of other faiths. Sounds interesting. By the way, do you believe that the children in Fatima were seeing Mary or someone else? If someone else then why?

 

[Fairwinds]

Im sorry but are you comparing the murder of the women and children of Jericho to a child getting a shot? because those people are dead, and the dead have a tough time learning lessons.

you raise and extremely good point and I hope you’re not satisfied with the answers you’ve been getting.

God commanded the killing Canaanite men, women, children, even dogs, cats and other animals by the Israelite conquerors; conduct we would damn as war crimes today. this should be a concern to anyone reading about the sack of Jericho and the other Canaanite cities.

But there was a good reason for it, at the time, and I hope someone will give you the satisfactory answer.

 

[joe371]

I’m not offended. I’m just pointing out that the christian God orders some stuff the seems very contrary to his stated nature.

Not if Jesus is who he says he is. Now, if he is not, then you would have a valid point. For example, picking up your cross, as per scripture, and following Jesus, would be idiotic if Jesus is who you believe him to be i.e. not God.

 

[Skadi]

What kind of trickery? Example? Which men of other faiths have preformed miracles? Could you be specific? I would like to investigate any genuine miracles worked by men of other faiths. Sounds interesting. By the way, do you believe that the children in Fatima were seeing Mary or someone else? If someone else then why?

Every time a Christian asks me this i tell them to google “the Buddha”.

And that either someone died in Jesus’s place or that someone impersonated him afterwards. Its even possible he may have been a ghost or was never a man but some form of spirit whom had taken a physical form. I don’t know, because I wasn’t there.

 

[Skadi]

Not if Jesus is who he says he is. Now, if he is not, then you would have a valid point. For example, picking up your cross, as per scripture, and following Jesus, would be idiotic if Jesus is who you believe him to be i.e. not God.

Jesus lived hundreds of years after the torching of Jericho, so i’m not seeing the connection between Jesus and the Jewish reconquest of Isreal after the Exodus.

 

[joe371]

you raise and extremely good point and I hope you’re not satisfied with the answers you’ve been getting.

God commanded the killing Canaanite men, women, children, even dogs, cats and other animals by the Israelite conquerors; conduct we would damn as war crimes today. this should be a concern to anyone reading about the sack of Jericho and the other Canaanite cities.

But there was a good reason for it, at the time, and I hope someone will give you the satisfactory answer.

In the case of certain cities, God even commanded that children be killed (Deut 20:16-18). Always confused me. Perhaps I will start another thread, and ask…They must have been a threat to the chosen people, from where the Messiah would come…

 

[ChurchSoldier]

Personally I believe all religions besides those that are obviously man made lead to the ultimate divine, the “Is All”. The difference is the cultural context in which each religion reveals universal truth.

I think this is where the difficulty of these types of discussions lead. You seem sincere in what you believe, but ultimately it is your belief. Christianity is not about “our belief” it is about “God’s belief” and as such Christians and and all other faith traditions are diametrically opposed. Christ made sure through both His teachings and Scripture that people could not be wishy washy. It’s why on the first page I asked what you belief about John 3:36. We either believe that Jesus is “The Way Truth and Life” and that those who do not have Him will experience God’s Wrath or we don’t. If we don’t believe it we should have pretty strong support for why the belief system we are adhering to is better than Christ because the consequences are too great if it is incorrect.

That’s all. As I said, you seem to be pretty sincere about what you believe, but I would encourage you to re-read the Gospel According to John.

 

[joe371]

Every time a Christian asks me this i tell them to google “the Buddha”.

And that either someone died in Jesus’s place or that someone impersonated him afterwards. Its even possible he may have been a ghost or was never a man but some form of spirit whom had taken a physical form. I don’t know, because I wasn’t there.

So Jesus could have been a ghost or some other spirit, but not who he says he is? Interesting…I asked: Which men of other faiths have preformed miracles? Your answer is Buddha? Which other men? Could you be specific? I would like to investigate any genuine miracles worked by men of other faiths.

Do you believe that the children in Fatima were seeing Mary or someone else? If someone else then why?

 

[joe371]

Jesus lived hundreds of years after the torching of Jericho, so i’m not seeing the connection between Jesus and the Jewish reconquest of Isreal after the Exodus.

I was responding to this:

I would agree with everything said. Although I do think alot of Catholic/Orthodox doctrine is a bit older than you give it credit for. Still, the longer I learned about Christianity the less I believed it. Especially the doctrines of the church on things such as animals and sex which have alwase struck me as… not making a whole lot of logical or realistic sense.

Which Christian doctrines on animals…?

 

[Fairwinds]

In the case of certain cities, God even commanded that children be killed (Deut 20:16-18). Always confused me. Perhaps I will start another thread, and ask…They must have been a threat to the chosen people, from where the Messiah would come…

its something specific to that place and time. hint: their failure to obey causes huge problems and ends with the deportations. I’m hoping the pagan will trade answers to a question I’ve always wanted to ask them.

 

[joe371]

its something specific to that place and time. hint: their failure to obey causes huge problems and ends with the deportations. I’m hoping the pagan will trade answers to a question I’ve always wanted to ask them.

What question, if you don’t mind me asking?

 

[Fairwinds]

What question, if you don’t mind me asking?

I’ll PM.

 

[Skadi]

I think this is where the difficulty of these types of discussions lead. You seem sincere in what you believe, but ultimately it is your belief. Christianity is not about “our belief” it is about “God’s belief” and as such Christians and and all other faith traditions are diametrically opposed. Christ made sure through both His teachings and Scripture that people could not be wishy washy. It’s why on the first page I asked what you belief about John 3:36. We either believe that Jesus is “The Way Truth and Life” and that those who do not have Him will experience God’s Wrath or we don’t. If we don’t believe it we should have pretty strong support for why the belief system we are adhering to is better than Christ because the consequences are too great if it is incorrect.

That’s all. As I said, you seem to be pretty sincere about what you believe, but I would encourage you to re-read the Gospel According to John.

Im on a catholic forum, what should is do? come on here and say “Your all wrong! this is how it is!”. Im here to answer questions. My beliefs are different from your beliefs which is why i phrased it the way I did.

 

[PRmerger]

I’m not offended. I’m just pointing out that the christian God orders some stuff the seems very contrary to his stated nature.

And, again, from a 5 yr old’s point of view a daddy who allows a person to stick her with 5 needles seems to be contrary to his stated nature, too.

But you and I both know that the 5 yr old doesn’t see the bigger picture, and wouldn’t understand it even if we tried to explain it.

I use analogies more than anyone I know, but would you be offended if I said “The Holocaust was just like stubbing your toe, sure it hurts for a while, but its bound to happen sooner or later.”? Belittling murder isn’t something thats generally considered good analogical material.

Yes. Some analogies are offensive. I’ve been in a discussion with someone who made an analogy of an unborn baby to a parasite. Clearly offensive.

However, this analogy of a loving father allowing something painful to his child is not one of those cases.

 

[PRmerger]

Skadi, could you please answer the question I asked you in post #84? Thanks.

 

[joe371]

I’ll PM.

 

[Skadi]

And, again, from a 5 yr old’s point of view a daddy who allows a person to stick her with 5 needles seems to be contrary to his stated nature, too.

But you and I both know that the 5 yr old doesn’t see the bigger picture, and wouldn’t understand it even if we tried to explain it.

Yes. Some analogies are offensive. I’ve been in a discussion with someone who made an analogy of an unborn baby to a parasite. Clearly offensive.

However, this analogy of a loving father allowing something painful to his child is not one of those cases.

But the child needs these shots in order to improve its future life, whereas those people are dead and not going to learn a thing. I don’t really see the analogy

 

[joe371]

Im on a catholic forum, what should is do? come on here and say “Your all wrong! this is how it is!”. Im here to answer questions. My beliefs are different from your beliefs which is why i phrased it the way I did.

Seems reasonable…

 

[PRmerger]

Im here to answer questions

Skadi, could you please answer the question I asked you in post #84? Thanks.