Ask a Pagan

[WiccanWoman]

Please note, myself and the OP are two different kinds of pagans. You can’t put us all in one basket.

Hail and greetings, mlamg. I am here, too… a third type, I suppose. I made 2 posts awhile back, rather lengthy ones. I hope you will read them to understand where I fall in the belief system.

Blessings to you.

 

[mlamg]

And because I know where you’re going with this, and because I don’t have any more time to spare to this forum (busy in the gardens, the *real *world, LOL), I’ll also say that truth can only be determined when you have a known. You cannot determine truth with unknowns. Anything that has to do with God, whether what people say God’s laws are, or God’s proper rituals, or what God said in a book that was written by men, or what they said God told them, these things are not knowns, they are all unknowns. Therefore, truth cannot be determined regarding anything to do with God. That’s why they call belief in God “faith.” Faith is a belief that is not based on proof, it is based on an unknown.

If I say that blabolellogram has 47 sides of equal length, there MUST be a known blabolellogram in existence in order to determine the truth of this statement. To say anything at all about God is simply opinion. God is an unknown. Now I know that you almost certainly disagree with this, and that’s fine. But it’s your opinion, it’s not truth.

 

[mlamg]

Hail and greetings, mlamg. I am here, too… a third type, I suppose. I made 2 posts awhile back, rather lengthy ones. I hope you will read them to understand where I fall in the belief system.

Blessings to you.

Blessings, my dear! :hug3:

 

[joe371]

Harmony is from God, disharmony is from man. Pagans and other non-Christians don’t need books with thousands of rules for them to know what is right and what is wrong. It’s not rocket science.

Truth is in accordance with fact, so how can it be relative? Facts are facts.

Please note, myself and the OP are two different kinds of pagans. You can’t put us all in one basket.

OK… You might be oversimplifying things, but if it works for you then cool…

 

[coopnann]

While gettign in to christian heaven is based on gods mercy and your deeds and love on earth, Valhalla is home to only the brave and fierce warriors. Many good, loving people do not go to Valhalla, you dont get in on your kindness or good deeds (although that is part of honor). Odin wants only the strongest, bravest warriors, because when Ragnarok comes they will march from Valhalla and join him on the field of battle. To go to Valhalla is to train to fight the final battle of good vs. evil. As such, one must be a warrior who will fight to the death, not one who will quietly accept death.

So are you a strong, brave, fierce warrior? If you died of a heart attack in the next minute, do you see yourself as someone who would be going to Valhalla? If not, where would you go?

 

[josh987654321]

And here is where we diverge. You believe that A is the finer death, because it is what your god asks of you. I believe that B is the finer death because it is pleasing to my gods.

While I respect the dedication those martys showed, they gave up, forfeiting their lives (as the bible tells them to). To face certain death, and take as many of your enemies with you as you can is pleasing to the gods, showing you are a brave warrior who fights to the death.

While getting in to christian heaven is based on gods mercy and your deeds and love on earth, Valhalla is home to only the brave and fierce warriors. Many good, loving people do not go to Valhalla, you dont get in on your kindness or good deeds (although that is part of honor). Odin wants only the strongest, bravest warriors, because when Ragnarok comes they will march from Valhalla and join him on the field of battle. To go to Valhalla is to train to fight the final battle of good vs. evil. As such, one must be a warrior who will fight to the death, not one who will quietly accept death.

All I can say is Im glad I do not belong to Vallaha.

You are most certainly correct though, you will most likely train to fight the final battle of good vs evil. The book of Revelation in Christianity talks about your Ragnarok exactly.

But guess what, you won’t be on the side of “good” In Vallaha I can assure you that much.

Odin is the Devil, you are absolutely correct, he does want such hatred and violence, violence and hatred are the virtues of satan, those who die in such ways belong to him.

You can tell who he is by the fruits he produces. Just as we know who Christ is because of the fruits he produces.

Thank you for reading
Josh

 

[PRmerger]

Actually the German gods morality is even looser than my own on most things. Things like sex out of wedlock, which aren’t permissible in most main stream religions, arn’t even talked about.

I don’t understand your point.

Do the German gods think homosexuality is immoral and yet you think it’s moral?
Do the German gods think that sex outside of marriage is licit yet you think it’s illicit?

Please explain your Pagan views on sexual morality. Thanks. And please explain the Germanic gods’ views on sexual morality.

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

I’m guessing you reject most of what old paganism taught and replace it with something more contemporary, no appeasing gods via sacrifices or abiding by the pagan cultural practice of Infanticide?

 

[Skadi]

Skadi-

Do you believe Jesus was a historical person (and not in your opinion, the Son of God)?

I’m looking to see if we have common ground on this question.

Pork

Yes, I believe he was a real person, but that the story of his life was seriously distorted in the years after his death. There is however historical evidence from very credible sources a prophet named Jesus lived in Palestine in roughly 30 A.D. and was crucified.

 

[Skadi]

I’m guessing you reject most of what old paganism taught and replace it with something more contemporary, no appeasing gods via sacrifices or abiding by the pagan cultural practice of Infanticide?

Firstly, I do make sacrifices. If it wasn’t illegal I would make animal ones on important days.

Secondly, There have been literally hundreds of Pagan cultures throughout history across the world, and throughout all of them child sacrifice took place only in a few.

My particular type of paganism did engage in Human sacrifice on occasion, using volunteers or prisoners of war, but never killed children. Id say its safe to say It wouldnt be practiced anymore if those religions had survived, as all religions undergo change and the world has become far more liberalized in the past 1000 years. Even before christianization Human sacrifice in northern europe was dying out.

 

[Skadi]

So are you a strong, brave, fierce warrior? If you died of a heart attack in the next minute, do you see yourself as someone who would be going to Valhalla? If not, where would you go?

Although death in battle is not the exclusive way to go to Valhalla (some sources say being buried with your weapons can also be a way to be chosen) It is by far the most common. If in the next minuet I died of a heart attack I would expect to go to Helhiem, the afterlife, ruled by the goddes Hel.

When alot of christians hear “Hel” they think fire and brimstone, but in fact Hel with one L is a totally different idea. Hel is not a place for eternal punishment, its simply the next life. maybe a bit moody or dark but on some resting place for all evil things. When northern Europe was converted, christian monks chose Hell as the word to use in local languages for the realm of Satan, in an attempt to convince the locals it was a bad place of evil. In fact Christian Hel and German Helhiem are totally different and just have purposely similar names in Germanic language’s.

 

[Skadi]

All I can say is Im glad I do not belong to Vallaha.

You are most certainly correct though, you will most likely train to fight the final battle of good vs evil. The book of Revelation in Christianity talks about your Ragnarok exactly.

But guess what, you won’t be on the side of “good” In Vallaha I can assure you that much.

Odin is the Devil, you are absolutely correct, he does want such hatred and violence, violence and hatred are the virtues of satan, those who die in such ways belong to him.

You can tell who he is by the fruits he produces. Just as we know who Christ is because of the fruits he produces.

Thank you for reading
Josh

Ahh alright, one of these Christians. alright, Ill do my best to keep it respectful.

To simply claim that every other religion is the product of some evil entity to turn people away from the one true faith (yours) is simply a self serving notion that makes a person feel good about themselves.

Dispite his claims there are places in the bible the Christian god is just as warlike as any Northern Deity. Ordering the destruction of citys, the extermination of populaces, and carrying the Jews to victory on numerous occasions.

Violence and hate are a natural part of the world, and while they cause terrible things and great pain, they will alwase be present.

Valhalla is home to only the greatest warriors and they train to fight the greatest of evils, the Jotun, Fenrir, The Midgard Serpent, the fallen Loki, and Surt. So unless somehow villainous Giants, a giant wolf, a massive snake, the God of Deception and his minions, and a ancient fire demon whos goal is to kill literally everything, are the angels of god, I dont see how we wind up on the wrong side of Ragnarok.

 

[Skadi]

I don’t understand your point.

Do the German gods think homosexuality is immoral and yet you think it’s moral?
Do the German gods think that sex outside of marriage is licit yet you think it’s illicit?

Please explain your Pagan views on sexual morality. Thanks. And please explain the Germanic gods’ views on sexual morality.

Pagans as ive said before have very wide views and are not a single religion, but generally speaking they have no problem with homosexuality.

In terms of Germanic, some sources seem to indicate that “being passive in intercourse” is unmanly but homosexuality is never directly mentioned in any source. There is however some information suggesting that groups of homosexuals or effeminate priests may have worshiped Freyr.

Also there is a form of magic called “Seior” which has been lost to the ages but was forbidden for men to practice, so left only to women. Some people speculate it involved some sort of sex act as Odin is teased about it by other gods on a few occasions.

I would say I have no problem with someone being gay, but I certainly am not.

As for sex outside of marriage, the gloves come off. The Gods marry and divorce and bear children with many partners (Odin has children with atleast 3 others, including his wife Frigg). There is nothing to suggest sex is anything more than a means of pleasure or procreation. Both men and women in old North Europe were free to seek divorce if their spouse cheated on them.

 

[PRmerger]

Pagans as ive said before have very wide views and are not a single religion, but generally speaking they have no problem with homosexuality.

In terms of Germanic, some sources seem to indicate that “being passive in intercourse” is unmanly but homosexuality is never directly mentioned in any source. There is however some information suggesting that groups of homosexuals or effeminate priests may have worshiped Freyr.

Also there is a form of magic called “Seior” which has been lost to the ages but was forbidden for men to practice, so left only to women. Some people speculate it involved some sort of sex act as Odin is teased about it by other gods on a few occasions.

I would say I have no problem with someone being gay, but I certainly am not.

As for sex outside of marriage, the gloves come off. The Gods marry and divorce and bear children with many partners (Odin has children with atleast 3 others, including his wife Frigg). There is nothing to suggest sex is anything more than a means of pleasure or procreation. Both men and women in old North Europe were free to seek divorce if their spouse cheated on them.

And your personal views regarding sex–as far as morality goes? What are they?

 

[Skadi]

And your personal views regarding sex–as far as morality goes? What are they?

It is what people make of it. I have no qualms with sex between unmarried people but I do believe cheating is disgraceful as you are breaking the oath of marriage.

 

[Porknpie]

Yes, I believe he was a real person,

but that the story of his life was seriously distorted in the years after his death.

what is your evidence for this? Also, do you believe that Jesus taught his 12 apostles for three years as the bible records before his death?

There is however historical evidence from very credible sources a prophet named Jesus lived in Palestine in roughly 30 A.D. and was crucified.

which sources do you find credible and why? Which ones do you not find credible and why not?

 

[RebeccaJ]

Nothing, Im a soft polytheist, I believe that MOST (there are obvious exemptions that are man made like Mormonism and the Church of Satan) religions are just the ultimate-reality/God (who is everywhere and made up of all life) revealed in culturally relative ways.

This dosn’t mean religions cant be changed or corrupted by man, but i do believe most deities are faces of the ultimate reality and most religions reflect common theams (IE. Theft is wrong).

So there is nothing to make my beliefs “More right” than anyone else’s.

Why do you view paganism as not manmade? When I left the religion I was raised in, Mormonism, I looked at a lot of “belief systems”, including paganism and the occult. I didn’t find anything in paganism that struck me more than much of Mormonism did. Particular, imagined ideas about god(s). My infatuation with paganism ended when the pagans at the Universalist Unitarian church performed a “fairy blessing”. Seemed to me I suppose like your view of Wiccan, childish and imaginative.

Humans have a tendency to imagine a lot about god(s). In the end, Catholicism presented God as not imagined but as the ultimate reality, in Jesus Christ.

So! With all that, my questions are, who are these gods/goddesses and why do you think they aren’t anything more than the product of human imagination?

 

[josh987654321]

Ahh alright, one of these Christians. alright, Ill do my best to keep it respectful.

My apologies, I didn’t mean to be disrespectful.

To simply claim that every other religion is the product of some evil entity to turn people away from the one true faith (yours) is simply a self serving notion that makes a person feel good about themselves.

Dispite his claims there are places in the bible the Christian god is just as warlike as any Northern Deity. Ordering the destruction of citys, the extermination of populaces, and carrying the Jews to victory on numerous occasions.

Violence and hate are a natural part of the world, and while they cause terrible things and great pain, they will alwase be present.

Valhalla is home to only the greatest warriors and they train to fight the greatest of evils, the Jotun, Fenrir, The Midgard Serpent, the fallen Loki, and Surt. So unless somehow villainous Giants, a giant wolf, a massive snake, the God of Deception and his minions, and a ancient fire demon whos goal is to kill literally everything, are the angels of god, I dont see how we wind up on the wrong side of Ragnarok.

I don’t claim that every religion is the product of some evil entity to turn people away from the one true faith.

Im claiming that your religion is the product of an evil entity, you can tell by the fruits it produces.

Anyone who dies in violence and hatred will always end up on the wrong side of your “Ragnarok.” Isn’t that obvious?

Those who belong to the side of good, look for the good, why would the side of good look for the evil (hatred and violence)?

What do you think is good? is love good? is mercy good? is humility good? If these things are good, than why would the side of good be unpleased with those virtues? it wouldn’t.

Thank you for reading
Josh

 

[Skadi]

what is your evidence for this? Also, do you believe that Jesus taught his 12 apostles for three years as the bible records before his death?

which sources do you find credible and why? Which ones do you not find credible and why not?

The bible as it pertains to Jesus and his miracles was firstly written by people who did not know Jesus. The books included in the bible were decided hundreds of years afterwards, again by people who wern’t there. Lastly, as Christians are apt to point out, early Christians including the apostles went to their deaths for Jesus. These people were willing to do anything for him, and I believe that when Jesus didnt return some of them plotted to fake a resurrection (or that someone died in Jesus’s place). Just as people today continue to cry that the rapture is approaching even after multiple failed predictions by their leaders, so to was the early church lead on by someone with something to gain from the rise of Christendom.

Roman historians such as Tacitus, they are pretty secular, and record a prophet living in Judea who was put to death, and refered to y some as the king of the Jews.

 

[joe371]

Skadi;10797308]The bible* as it pertains to Jesus and his miracles *was firstly written by people who did not know Jesus.

Matthew and John did not know Jesus? And you know this how?

The books included in the bible were decided hundreds of years afterwards, again by people who wern’t there.

Jesus’ church via apostolic succession.

Lastly, as Christians are apt to point out, early Christians including the apostles went to their deaths for Jesus. These people were willing to do anything for him, and I believe that when Jesus didnt return some of them plotted to fake a resurrection (or that someone died in Jesus’s place).

Your personal theory? OK…They faked His resurrection, and then died for a lie…I am not even sure why you would say: “someone died in Jesus’s place.” I believe that is what Muslims think…

Just as people today continue to cry that the rapture is approaching even after multiple failed predictions by their leaders, so to was the early church lead on by someone with something to gain from the rise of Christendom.

What would someone (specifically those who supposedly made it all up) have to gain by inventing the Chirstian religion? Perhaps money, fame or power, in the 1st, 2nd and 3rd centuries, or something else?

Roman historians such as Tacitus, they are pretty secular, and record a prophet living in Judea who was put to death, and refered to y some as the king of the Jews.

Of course they didn’t believe that Jesus was who he, and his followers, insisted…