Ask a Pagan

[mek42]

Why is it that most pagans are of the attitude, ‘‘This is what I believe, you believe as you will,’’ while most Christians are more like, ‘‘I’m right, you’re wrong.’’?

 

[Brendan_64]

You’re not describing anything differently than what Christians and Catholics do - “this is what the/“our” Church says (the Bible says)…” and then there will be discourse and debate with individuals taking “conservative” or “liberal” stances both within a denomination and among multiple ones.

In the Catholic Church there is only one version of the Truth and that si decided by the Magisterium of our Church.

Noting different sects within Heathenry is no different than noting sects of another religion, including Christianity. And Traditional Wicca (again, not the same thing as eclectic/solitary) is specifically a priesthood of specific deities.

I’m not talking about differences of opinions between different sect, unless every single pagan is his own sect. I really have never come across two pagans that believed the same things.

Well you’re missing the point which is as much as you deny selectivity is part of ALL religions, it is and you’re demonstrating just that. Nothing has proven that one Christian denomination has the one sole correct version of Truth.

Apart from the fact that there is only one Church that was established by Jesus Christ himself, and He established a hierarchy for that Church. That Church is the Catholic Church, with apostolic succession from St Peter and the Apostles through to our current Pope Francis and our bishops.

Either way, ultimately, there is no one version of the Truth. There’s just yours and every other denominations’ interpretations.

There may be many interpretations, but only one interpretation is truly valid. That interpretation is the one made by the Magisterium of the Church that can trace it’s Apostolic succession back to St Peter and the Apostles, in whom God gave his authority and through which Grace is transmitted.

 

[Brendan_64]

Why is it that most pagans are of the attitude, ‘‘This is what I believe, you believe as you will,’’ while most Christians are more like, ‘‘I’m right, you’re wrong.’’?

Because there can only be one Truth. If two views of the truth contradict each other, then it follows that one version must be wrong. When you then put the concepts of eternal salvation into the equation, and if we care about our fellow man and see him as our brother, it is our duty to try to spread the Truth to him.

 

[Kallisto]

In the Catholic Church there is only one version of the Truth and that si decided by the Magisterium of our Church.

I appreciate that. However the key element of that sentence is “in the CC”, which means it’s utterly irrelevant to other religions what its adherents view as Truth.

I’m not talking about differences of opinions between different sect, unless every single pagan is his own sect. I really have never come across two pagans that believed the same things.

Then YMMV. I’ve found many polytheists who belong to the same traditions who adhere to much the same and come to the same conclusions (among fellow adherents), and it’s finding those conclusions recurring among one practitioner after the next which tends to convince them what they found is not simply personal want or whim.

Apart from the fact that there is only one Church that was established by Jesus Christ himself, and He established a hierarchy for that Church. That Church is the Catholic Church, with apostolic succession from St Peter and the Apostles through to our current Pope Francis and our bishops.

Now, did he write this down himself, or is it reported through others? That’s certainly your belief but, again, it doesn’t hold water outside of your religion. This will continue to be the case. The beliefs of one religion do not and have not proven to supersede those of another. So while I respect that’s what you believe, it doesn’t necessarily make it so, just as you have no acceptance of any beliefs outside your own.

There may be many interpretations, but only one interpretation is truly valid…

Please see above. You’re not likely to convince anyone no more than another will persuade you to accept theirs. And it effectively puts blinders on you when you attempt to approach multi faith dialog while maintaining a stance of “i’m right, you’re wrong”. It only convinces people that they have in fact not been on the wrong path after all. So, that being the case, carry on!

 

[Kallisto]

Why is it that most pagans are of the attitude, ‘‘This is what I believe, you believe as you will,’’ while most Christians are more like, ‘‘I’m right, you’re wrong.’’?

It is a curious thing, the only way to assert being “correct” is by constantly denigrating others.

 

[joe371]

So what are you saying, basically any religion, including other Christian denominations are “random beliefs” but, somehow, only Catholicism emphasizes faith + reason?

Really? Isn’t that playing a numbers game as well? 3.85% isn’t a big enough difference to change the gist of the comment which was over 80% of the world population is not Catholic (and 66% of the world population is not Christian). So are you implying 80-plus percent of the world’s population is ignorant because only Catholicism emphasizes faith + reason?

People who practice non-Abrahamic religions are still discriminated against and persecuted. And, certainly in the case of Pagans, continue not to disclose their religious affiliations publicly or even to family. In other countries, folk and pagan practices still suffer under the threat of physical violence and vigilante death including being burnt alive for witchcraft. So numbers regarding such practices are going to fall rather short on accuracy.

It’s not measured by religious bias and conceit either. You seem to be implying that people are only opening their mind and being honest when they buy your religion’s brand of truth.

I think he is merely pointing out the believability of the Jesus story, and the fact that the eventual change of heart the apostles experienced during Pentecost is very persuasive, in terms of belief. I respect all religious beliefs but am drawn to Christ for the very same reasons. Surely you would admit that Jesus could be who he claims to be? You cannot know for sure that he is not…

In other countries, folk and pagan practices still suffer under the threat of physical violence and vigilante death including being burnt alive for witchcraft. So numbers regarding such practices are going to fall rather short on accuracy.

I did not know that. Who is doing the persecuting?

 

[joe371]

It is a curious thing, the only way to assert being “correct” is by constantly denigrating others.

Who is denigrating…?

 

[joe371]

Kallisto;10878529]I appreciate that. However the key element of that sentence is “in the CC”, which means it’s utterly irrelevant to other religions what its adherents view as Truth.

Yup…:yup:

Now, did he write this down himself, or is it reported through others? That’s certainly your belief but, again, it doesn’t hold water outside of your religion. This will continue to be the case. The beliefs of one religion do not and have not proven to supersede those of another. So while I respect that’s what you believe, it doesn’t necessarily make it so, just as you have no acceptance of any beliefs outside your own.

Free will…Everyone has a right to believe whatever they want to believe…We will all know the truth eventually…

Please see above. You’re not likely to convince anyone no more than another will persuade you to accept theirs. And it effectively puts blinders on you when you attempt to approach multi faith dialog while maintaining a stance of "i’m right, you’re wrong". It only convinces people that they have in fact not been on the wrong path after all. So, that being the case, carry on!

:yup: Sometimes I wonder: what’s the point of discussing anything, if it cannot be 100 % proven… An impasse is inevitable…

 

[mlamg]

I wouldn’t necessarily call them random, but they are misguided beliefs. As to other Christian denomination, the fullness of Truth lies within the Catholic Church (as the only Church established by God on Earth). The faiths of our separated Christian brothers and sisters of other Christian denominations contain elements of the Truth, but not the fullness of Truth.

Playing the pagan ‘victim card’? Pagans are no more discriminated against than any other religious group. Christians face persecution and death in many parts of the world. pagans are certainly not discriminated against in the West at least.

There are no ‘brands’ of Truth. You don’t roll up to the supermarket and choose a brand of Truth, like you’d choose a brand of cereal. There is only one Truth.

Not everybody is right. To hold a view which is counter to the truth is to hold a view that is false. There cannot be any other logical conclusion.

Here we are talking about religious truth again. There is no way to win either side of the argument. We’ve covered this one already.

 

[mlamg]

Why is it that most pagans are of the attitude, ‘‘This is what I believe, you believe as you will,’’ while most Christians are more like, ‘‘I’m right, you’re wrong.’’?

Well, in my own experience, it’s because I base my beliefs on a direct experience of the Divine. I don’t follow dogma, I follow God and the experience of God in my own personal life. How can I possibly tell anyone else that their experience of God is wrong?

 

[mlamg]

I did not know that. Who is doing the persecuting?

Humans persecute each other, especially in Africa. Surely you remember your very own Benedict warning people against witchcraft?

ncronline.org/news/vatican/condemned-pope-witchcraft-reality-africa

As if they needed warning. They murder people who they think are witches all the time. See the article: “In Angola, children suffering from diseases such as malaria and AIDS, or street children, are sometimes accused of practicing witchcraft and subjected to abuse. In 2006, a three-year-old HIV-positive child was suspected of placing a curse on his parents, so neighbors abandoned the child in a coop, where chickens pecked out one of his eyes. Between 2001tand 2005, 423 children accused of witchcraft sought refuge at the Santa Child Centre run by the Catholic Church in M’banza Congo, the capital of Zaire Province, on the border with the Democratic Republic of Congo.”

Maybe Benedict should have mentioned something about compassion and love for your neighbor. Seems like these people need to hear it pretty badly.

 

[joe371]

Humans persecute each other, especially in Africa. Surely you remember your very own Benedict warning people against witchcraft?

ncronline.org/news/vatican/condemned-pope-witchcraft-reality-africa

As if they needed warning. They murder people who they think are witches all the time. See the article: “In Angola, children suffering from diseases such as malaria and AIDS, or street children, are sometimes accused of practicing witchcraft and subjected to abuse. In 2006, a three-year-old HIV-positive child was suspected of placing a curse on his parents, so neighbors abandoned the child in a coop, where chickens pecked out one of his eyes. Between 2001tand 2005, 423 children accused of witchcraft sought refuge at the Santa Child Centre run by the Catholic Church in M’banza Congo, the capital of Zaire Province, on the border with the Democratic Republic of Congo.”

Maybe Benedict should have mentioned something about compassion and love for your neighbor. Seems like these people need to hear it pretty badly.

Excerpt from that article:
“Witchcraft is a reality; it is not a superstition. Many communities know these powers exist.”

Do these powers ever lead to people getting hurt or worse killed? In other words, is this type of witchcraft benevolent or malevolent, or a combination of the two?

 

[Skadi]

Why is it that most pagans are of the attitude, ‘‘This is what I believe, you believe as you will,’’ while most Christians are more like, ‘‘I’m right, you’re wrong.’’?

Christians have a mandate in the bible to go out and spread the word of God, and the bible is full of passages decrying the falseness of other faiths. Also I think part of it is just some (And just some) peoples desire to satisfy their egos, I mean what would all those screaming, hating ministers down south do with themselves of everyone thought as they did?

Various pagan faiths however are of a totally different structure. The Celts didnt send missionary’s to Germania to try and get those people to abandon Odin and worship say, Lugus. Their religions didn’t have names, it was simply, “our way” or “our Gods”. Religion was totally inseparable from culture. Even in ancient times when the majority of people (mostly the peasantry) were “Hard” polytheists, there dosnt seem to be a whole lot of mutual exclusivity in their lines of thought.

Ive spent alot of this thread talking about how the bible isnt exactly a history book, but there is one part ive alwase found very interesting about it which illustrates my point very well, accurate or not.

When Moses visited the Pharaoh, why did he not reject the existence of Moses god? He belittles his power compared to the gods of Egypt, but why does he not simply say “This is a false deity because he is not part of the Egyptian pantheon.” Until Christianity came to Europe, there isnt much evidence that Europeans persecuted each other for religious reasons or tried to convert each other. In fact the great pagan empires of history, Persia, Rome, and Alexanders conquests, offered quite a degree of religious freedom that was not found in the Christian and Muslim empires that succeed them.

 

[Skadi]

Excerpt from that article:
“Witchcraft is a reality; it is not a superstition. Many communities know these powers exist.”

Do these powers ever lead to people getting hurt or worse killed? In other words, is this type of witchcraft benevolent or malevolent, or a combination of the two?

Today the vast majority of magical practitioners are very against using magic to harm others. there are of course those Satanists out there who would try to so otherwise, and others, but they are outliers. Damm Warlocks giving new age folks a bad name.

 

[Brendan_64]

The Celts didnt send missionary’s to Germania to try and get those people to abandon Odin and worship say, Lugus. Their religions didn’t have names, it was simply, “our way” or “our Gods”. Religion was totally inseparable from culture.

The reason for that is that your gods were for your own people. They prayed in battle that their gods would protect their people and prevail over the gods of the other people that were protecting them. There was no reason for them to spread their faith.

With Christianity there was now a belief in one God who exists for all people, regardless or race, tribe or ethnicity. No longer could you expect God to simply protect your people, God was here for the whole of humanity. His Church was a Church for all men, a universal church, a catholic Church. It is therefore the duty of this Church to spread across the globe and be a Church made up of all men.

 

[Brendan_64]

Here we are talking about religious truth again. There is no way to win either side of the argument. We’ve covered this one already.

Then why keep bringing it up? I’m not trying to ‘win’ any argument, I’m just pointing out our Church’s position. I thought that that’s what you were interesting in finding out about.

 

[Micosil]

I think he is merely pointing out the believability of the Jesus story, and the fact that the eventual change of heart the apostles experienced during Pentecost is very persuasive, in terms of belief. I respect all religious beliefs but am drawn to Christ for the very same reasons. Surely you would admit that Jesus could be who he claims to be? You cannot know for sure that he is not…

I did not know that. Who is doing the persecuting?

So what are you saying, basically any religion, including other Christian denominations are “random beliefs” but, somehow, only Catholicism emphasizes faith + reason?

I am not aware of any other (mainstream) religion that emphasizes the important relationship between faith and reason, no.

Take, for instance, some Protestant Christianity - Martin Luther was known to have said "Reason is the greatest enemy that faith has: it never comes to the aid of spiritual things, but–more frequently than not --struggles against the divine Word, treating with contempt all that emanates from God. "

As you can see, Martin Luther, one of the fathers of Protestant Christianity, was very much against the use of reason, for instance.

Really? Isn’t that playing a numbers game as well? 3.85% isn’t a big enough difference to change the gist of the comment which was over 80% of the world population is not Catholic (and 66% of the world population is not Christian). So are you implying 80-plus percent of the world’s population is ignorant because only Catholicism emphasizes faith + reason?

The “number game” wasn’t my idea, as you’d notice; I was only politely pointing out that if figures are to be quoted, they should atleast be the right figures.

In any case, there are many reasons people are in different faiths in different parts of the world; most people, you’ll notice, are brought up in the religion of their household, of their parents or their guardians. Not only that, but many “cradle Catholics” themselves are very “meh” and indifferent about their faith; this is something I’ve noticed from a lot of my friends here in Spain.

People who practice non-Abrahamic religions are still discriminated against and persecuted. And, certainly in the case of Pagans, continue not to disclose their religious affiliations publicly or even to family. In other countries, folk and pagan practices still suffer under the threat of physical violence and vigilante death including being burnt alive for witchcraft. So numbers regarding such practices are going to fall rather short on accuracy.

Those are unfortunate circumstances.

It’s not measured by religious bias and conceit either. You seem to be implying that people are only opening their mind and being honest when they buy your religion’s brand of truth.

As I said, no bias and conceit involved either. Study and look for the evidence in all of the world’s religions, and if you’re honest with yourself, the truth should be evident.

 

[jerry_joseph]

Not so. In Greek religion there is no original sin, however there is Virtue or Areté, which in short means striving for spiritual excellence. That in itself fosters morality, as it eschews baneful practices which pollutes one’s self and causes a distance between the person and the gods.

By the term Sin, we Christians also believes that only. Bad things ( by thought, word,deeds and omission) which pollutes one’s Soul , there by causing a distance between person and God.

So you accepts sin and virtues exists but under another name Good deeds and Bad deeds…

If there is no Sin or Virtue then how one’s self is polluted? How it cause a distance between person and the gods?.If there is no particular sin or virtue and if your deeds are justified by circumstances , how a persons self is polluted?. Also if one’s self is part of God, does it mean God is polluted by one person’s sin? Then how distance is created between God and Persons?.

 

[rinnie]

…said a book. I’ve read lots of books, too, but I don’t believe them all.

Wrong Not a book. This teaching was around long before the Holy Bible came into print.

This was taught to us by Jesus Christ. The RCC is not a book. The RCC is led by the Power of the Holy Spirit and is still leading us today.

Rather you accept or deny our truth is as many have stated free will. We all have it given to us by God.

But please do not tell untruth about our faith. It is not led by a book.

 

[rinnie]

Today the vast majority of magical practitioners are very against using magic to harm others. there are of course those Satanists out there who would try to so otherwise, and others, but they are outliers. Damm Warlocks giving new age folks a bad name.

Sorcery is condemned in the bible. Lev. 19:26