Ask a pagan

[Randy_Carson]

The following was posted by a former pagan in another thread very recently:

As an ex pagan who came into the Roman Catholic Church this past Easter vigil, I will vouch for the fact that the entities which pagans worship are not gods in even the small g sense, but are agents of the enemy working to corrupt souls and bar them from going to heaven. Nowadays, save for those buying into the pagan/wiccan/new age mindset, they don’t actually come out and say I am a god, worship me. Mainly they are far more subtle causing people to focus on creatures and creations ahead of God as has already been stated on this thread.

For those who have been into pagan belief systems, who find the truth and repent in a conversion to Catholicism, sometimes you discover that the Enemy and his minions aren’t so happy about losing you. Kinda makes you feel all nice and wanted… NOT. Entertaining ideas that there may be other gods even with a lower cased g and not “the” ultimate Godhead, is precarious ground. I’ve heard that Satan likes to begin a conquest by first inspiring doubt and when you lend credence to anything being a god of any sort other than the Holy Trinity, then you’ve put sand under your feet instead of a rock and he sure loves digging shifting sands out from under you so that you will fall. But seriously, those gods that pagans worship are neither holy nor divine and their main purpose as it has been since the beginning is to tempt and trick people into going to hell. Bottom line. How they do it is up to the individual that they are working with and as the Screwtape Letters say, they have a plan, experience and flexibility and knowledge enough to go after each of us on that individual basis and trust me they are.

Let him who has ears hear.

 

[Skadi]

The following was posted by a former pagan in another thread very recently:

As an ex pagan who came into the Roman Catholic Church this past Easter vigil, I will vouch for the fact that the entities which pagans worship are not gods in even the small g sense, but are agents of the enemy working to corrupt souls and bar them from going to heaven. Nowadays, save for those buying into the pagan/wiccan/new age mindset, they don’t actually come out and say I am a god, worship me. Mainly they are far more subtle causing people to focus on creatures and creations ahead of God as has already been stated on this thread.

For those who have been into pagan belief systems, who find the truth and repent in a conversion to Catholicism, sometimes you discover that the Enemy and his minions aren’t so happy about losing you. Kinda makes you feel all nice and wanted… NOT. Entertaining ideas that there may be other gods even with a lower cased g and not “the” ultimate Godhead, is precarious ground. I’ve heard that Satan likes to begin a conquest by first inspiring doubt and when you lend credence to anything being a god of any sort other than the Holy Trinity, then you’ve put sand under your feet instead of a rock and he sure loves digging shifting sands out from under you so that you will fall. But seriously, those gods that pagans worship are neither holy nor divine and their main purpose as it has been since the beginning is to tempt and trick people into going to hell. Bottom line. How they do it is up to the individual that they are working with and as the Screwtape Letters say, they have a plan, experience and flexibility and knowledge enough to go after each of us on that individual basis and trust me they are.

Let him who has ears hear.

The internet is full of this kind of stuff. Now I would like to say this…

As an ex-Catholic who came to paganism officially on Beltane in 2011, I can say that I have full faith in the Gods and their existence and honor. In my most dire hour, it was my gods who rescued me from the darkest corners of my own heart and literally SAVED MY LIFE. I am eternally grateful, and cannot agree with the above posted statement by a former pagan. While i will not resort to calling other deities instruments of evil as they do I must defend the honor of the gods of my people, whom have given me so much.

 

[Randy_Carson]

The internet is full of this kind of stuff. Now I would like to say this…

As an ex-Catholic who came to paganism officially on Beltane in 2011, I can say that I have full faith in the Gods and their existence and honor. In my most dire hour, it was my gods who rescued me from the darkest corners of my own heart and literally SAVED MY LIFE. I am eternally grateful, and cannot agree with the above posted statement by a former pagan. While i will not resort to calling other deities instruments of evil as they do I must defend the honor of the gods of my people, whom have given me so much.

2 Corinthians 11:14-15
14 Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. 15 It is not surprising, then, if his servants also masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.

 

[Skadi]

2 Corinthians 11:14-15
14 Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. 15 It is not surprising, then, if his servants also masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.

So then how do you know Jesus was not actually an agent of Satan, seeking to draw jews into apostasy? After all, the 10 commandments say to keep noone equal to god, and yet Christians hold both Jesus and the Holy Spirit as divine

 

[Randy_Carson]

So then how do you know Jesus was not actually an agent of Satan, seeking to draw jews into apostasy? After all, the 10 commandments say to keep noone equal to god, and yet Christians hold both Jesus and the Holy Spirit as divine

I’ve participated in some “Ask a Pagan” threads, and I’ve lurked a bit more. I understand how they go.

So, let me answer your question with a question: Are you really interested in knowing the answer to your question because you understand how that information can change your life?

Or did you simply need some sort of rejoinder to my post, and that was the best you could come up with?

 

[Skadi]

I’ve participated in some “Ask a Pagan” threads, and I’ve lurked a bit more. I understand how they go.

So, let me answer your question with a question: Are you really interested in knowing the answer to your question because you understand how that information can change your life?

Or did you simply need some sort of rejoinder to my post, and that was the best you could come up with?

i intended the question to be more for you than me. I know what i believe and where I stand, Im simply attempting to respond to the prior quote you gave which seems to allude to my deities being malicious demonic entity’s. The prior accusations go both ways.

 

[Randy_Carson]

i intended the question to be more for you than me. I know what i believe and where I stand, Im simply attempting to respond to the prior quote you gave which seems to allude to my deities being malicious demonic entity’s. The prior accusations go both ways.

Thank you for being honest.

Of course, Jesus was accused of being an agent of the evil one by the Jewish authorities, and he gave some very good answers in reply.

As an ex-Catholic, you may be somewhat familiar with these.

 

[Gullveig]

I think it’s unfortunate that the cited person had a bad experience, but one should keep in mind that we know practically nothing about his or her experience and how they may have interpreted it. The majority of the pagans I’ve known have not had comparable experiences to what this person seems to be talking about. I have known a few people who for various reasons decided to work with rather chaotic entities like Loki and the jotunn to bad ends, and of those people I say “Lay down with dogs, get up with fleas.” The gods gave us reason and wisdom so that we could discern for ourselves and our honor and morality is our shield against all harm. Any being who requests dishonor from you is not to be trusted for any reason and working with them is foolish.

I’ve always heard people talk about knowing the tree by its fruit. As a life-long Asatruar, I feel that my gods have always exhorted me to honorable behavior, courageous action, and concern/compassion for my fellow human beings. My parents, both converts to Asatru from Christianity, are two of the bravest and most moral people I know. If the fruit of the tree is good, the tree itself cannot be all that rotten.

 

[Lokadottir]

I think it’s unfortunate that the cited person had a bad experience, but one should keep in mind that we know practically nothing about his or her experience and how they may have interpreted it. The majority of the pagans I’ve known have not had comparable experiences to what this person seems to be talking about. I have known a few people who for various reasons decided to work with rather chaotic entities like Loki and the jotunn to bad ends, and of those people I say “Lay down with dogs, get up with fleas.” The gods gave us reason and wisdom so that we could discern for ourselves and our honor and morality is our shield against all harm. Any being who requests dishonor from you is not to be trusted for any reason and working with them is foolish.

I’ve always heard people talk about knowing the tree by its fruit. As a life-long Asatruar, I feel that my gods have always exhorted me to honorable behavior, courageous action, and concern/compassion for my fellow human beings. My parents, both converts to Asatru from Christianity, are two of the bravest and most moral people I know. If the fruit of the tree is good, the tree itself cannot be all that rotten.

Easy there! I’m Lokadottir for a reason. I have never been moved by Loki or the Jotun to act dishonorably quite the opposite actually. Just wanted to say that real quick!

 

[Randy_Carson]

Why do I always feel like I need polyhedral dice and a bag of glass beads when I’m reading these threads?

 

[Credo_in_Deum]

Have any Pagan gods sacrificed themselves for mankind?

 

[Skadi]

Why do I always feel like I need polyhedral dice and a bag of glass beads when I’m reading these threads?

If thats a dungeons and dragons reference you need to give yourself a high five.

Neutral-Chaotic Rouges FTW!

 

[Lokadottir]

I’ve participated in some “Ask a Pagan” threads, and I’ve lurked a bit more. I understand how they go.

So, let me answer your question with a question: Are you really interested in knowing the answer to your question because you understand how that information can change your life?

Or did you simply need some sort of rejoinder to my post, and that was the best you could come up with?

Well you did use your own religious text for the argument so it applies better to your religion than to Skadi’s.

 

[Randy_Carson]

Well you did use your own religious text for the argument so it applies better to your religion than to Skadi’s.

Are you really interested in learning the arguments for the divinity of Jesus?

 

[Lokadottir]

Are you really interested in learning the arguments for the divinity of Jesus?

I may already have, but I love philosophy so let me have it! I’ve been in Catholic schooling since Kindergarden.
I have no issue with you religion. I’d have no issue if you believed in flying purple unicorns who fart cheeseburgers as long as you didn’t harm anyone.
The benefit of reflecting an accusation back on the asker, especially when someone else’s religious texts are used, is that weak arguments are revealed as such by the defensive behavior of the primary accuser.
Simply put, your belief that my Gods are demons does not make them so. In a similar matter the claim that Christ was a devil in disguise does not make it so. Now I do think that things with malevolent intent pretend to be allies. I knew a girl like that in middle school.

 

[alexandratm]

Have any Pagan gods sacrificed themselves for mankind?

The dying and returning god was a recurring archetype in many myths. The circumstances of each death and its parallelism to Christianity can be debated - for many, I think it’s a stretch. However, you have myths of Persephone, for example. who dies and then returns, bringing life-giving food back to people each year. Dionysus also has the death and rebirth motif, along with the water/wine symbolism.

Just my own personal noodling (I’m no theologian), but I think a lot of parallelism you see between Jesus and other mythological figures (or gods, if you worship them), was intentional and intended to show Jesus’ superiority at a time when many of these gods were still being contemporaneously worshiped.

ETA: There are probably a lot more gods who would fit this whole sacrifice and rebirth archetype, but I’m only recalling Roman gods right now. I know that it was a big thing in Middle Eastern mythology (Osiris too, maybe?), and I don’t know enough about eastern or Scandinavian gods to say for sure. But I’m sure some of the other pagans could weigh in with better info.

 

[Lokadottir]

The dying and returning god was a recurring archetype in many myths. The circumstances of each death and its parallelism to Christianity can be debated - for many, I think it’s a stretch. However, you have myths of Persephone, for example. who dies and then returns, bringing life-giving food back to people each year. Dionysus also has the death and rebirth motif, along with the water/wine symbolism.

Just my own personal noodling (I’m no theologian), but I think a lot of parallelism you see between Jesus and other mythological figures (or gods, if you worship them), was intentional and intended to show Jesus’ superiority at a time when many of these gods were still being contemporaneously worshiped.

ETA: There are probably a lot more gods who would fit this whole sacrifice and rebirth archetype, but I’m only recalling Roman gods right now. I know that it was a big thing in Middle Eastern mythology (Osiris too, maybe?), and I don’t know enough about eastern or Scandinavian gods to say for sure. But I’m sure some of the other pagans could weigh in with better info.

Don’t forget Prometheus! He didn’t DIE for mankind but I think he would have preferred that.
And for Scandinavians the argument could be made for Baldur who was killed by Loki (here is not the place for a Loki debate though) and will therefore survive Ragnarok and be part of the new world order.

 

[Credo_in_Deum]

The dying and returning god was a recurring archetype in many myths. The circumstances of each death and its parallelism to Christianity can be debated - for many, I think it’s a stretch. However, you have myths of Persephone, for example. who dies and then returns, bringing life-giving food back to people each year. Dionysus also has the death and rebirth motif, along with the water/wine symbolism.

Just my own personal noodling (I’m no theologian), but I think a lot of parallelism you see between Jesus and other mythological figures (or gods, if you worship them), was intentional and intended to show Jesus’ superiority at a time when many of these gods were still being contemporaneously worshiped.

ETA: There are probably a lot more gods who would fit this whole sacrifice and rebirth archetype, but I’m only recalling Roman gods right now. I know that it was a big thing in Middle Eastern mythology (Osiris too, maybe?), and I don’t know enough about eastern or Scandinavian gods to say for sure. But I’m sure some of the other pagans could weigh in with better info.

Thank you for your time in responding but this didn’t really answer my question since neither of these gods sacrificed themselves for the sake of mankind.

 

[Lokadottir]

Thank you for your time in responding but this didn’t really answer my question since neither of these gods sacrificed themselves for the sake of mankind.

Mine did!
Prometheus stole fire from Olympus for humanity and endured torment for it. That was for humanity!

 

[Credo_in_Deum]

Mine did!
Prometheus stole fire from Olympus for humanity and endured torment for it. That was for humanity!

Close but not the same my friend and I apologize for the confusion my wording has caused you. Has there been a pagan god who has sacrificed their life for the sake of mankind? Prometheus was being nice to mankind but not saving mankind out of a spirit of sacrifice. Prometheus stole the fire which shows he didn’t intended to get caught which means his actions were not one of sacrifice. If Prometheus had sacrificed himself he would have went to Zeus and said I will exchange my life so that humanity may have the fire from Olympus.