Ask a Pentecostal

[landon13]

I didn’t ask for the gift of tongues. I asked for more of God in my life and to be filled with His Spirit. In response, I was given a prayer language. I was not asking for any gift, I was asking for more of God.

Where is it written that spiritual gifts should not be asked for? In 1 Cor. 14:13, Paul states, “Therefore, one who speaks in a tongue should pray that he may interpret.” It is perfectly fine to pray that God would empower and equip you for your vocations and ministries.

My experience agrees with that spoken of by Paul in 1 Corinthians 14. There are different purposes for unknown languages. Some are prayer languages while some could be “missionary tongues.” We cannot throw out what Paul says in 1 Corinthians because it is inconvenient for us or does not line up with our experiences.

I have a prayer language. If that is too much for you to believe, then its a good thing that you don’t know me personally and will never have to hear me pray in tongues.

God bless you too.

This will be my last post, for now, on this thread but you mentioned that St. Paul says to ask for interpreting. Have you ever interpreted your speaking in tongues? If so what did they interpret to be?

God bless!

 

[grannymh]

yet when so called “prophesies” that were spoken through tongues with an interpreter do not come to pass they are said to have gotten a false spirit.

I know many pentacostals they all say you have to be careful and check everything with scripture because a demon can get in and cause confusion. You think it’s the holy spirit and it’s actually a demon.

Within the Catholic Church, the classical gift of Prophesy in the vernacular refers to God giving a message to the community. This message can be as simple and as powerful as “I am the Good Shepherd.” Or it can refer to actions which should be undertaken, etc. Usually, the gift of Discernment is used to determine the source of the message. I believe that Itwin referred to the pastor as having that role.

There is an old saying that if the “prophesy” commands the congregation to pay for an Olympic swimming pool in the pastor’s back yard, there is something wrong.

 

[ltwin]

1st Cor 12 ; 28 And God has placed in the church first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, of helping, of guidance, and of different kinds of tongues. 29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? 30 Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues[d]? Do all interpret? 31 Now eagerly desire the greater gifts.

He says first are Apostles then he seems to list them in order of importance and then says desire the greater gifts. Notice tongues are last.

That’s one interpretation. Yet, Paul did not explicitly say, “Tongues are the least of the gifts.” I agree though, tongues should not be overemphasized. They serve a purpose, but they should not be made the end all and be all of Christian experience.

Also 1st cor 14:5 " I would like every one of you to speak in tongues,** but I would rather have you prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues,**

You quoted the fist part and left out the part in bold. I have noticed the proponents of speaking in tongues tend to only quote The parts of 1st Corinthians favorable to it, and leave out the majority that down plays it.

I left it out because it was not directly relevant to the point I was making. Yes, the one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues because Paul is talking about public worship. The greatest thing will be that which edifies the people. Notice that he adds, “he one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues, unless someone interprets, so that the church may be built up.” The whole point is to “build up the church” and uninterpreted tongues cannot build up the church only the individual.
Steveabrous;10724224:

you said Paul would like all to speak in tongues but in Corinthians he says:

What then shall we say, brothers and sisters? When you come together, each of you has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation. Everything must be done so that the church may be built up. 27 If anyone speaks in a tongue, two—or at the most three—should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret. 28 If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and to God.

29 Two or three prophets should speak, and the others should weigh carefully what is said. 30 And if a revelation comes to someone who is sitting down, the first speaker should stop. 31

And 34*** Women[f] should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says. ***35 If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.[g]

Please don’t misunderstand me. As I said I know many Speaking in tongues types I consider better people then myself and closer to the lord. But I have been around it all my life due to my location. They all claim scripture is theirs but leave these parts out. It seems like they are cherry picking.

I’m not sure what point you are making with these scriptures? Were you trying to prove what? I’m not getting it. Paul is talking about proper order in worship. He doesn’t say anything about who can speak in tongues or not. If anything, it shows that a lot of people at Corinth had the gift of speaking in tongues and that is why Paul had to limit its use in public because everyone wanted to speak in tongues during the church service. So Paul says, “To many of yall is trying to give messages in tongues! You need to sit down and limit messages in tongues to 2 or 3 per service!”

 

[ltwin]

This will be my last post, for now, on this thread but you mentioned that St. Paul says to ask for interpreting. Have you ever interpreted your speaking in tongues? If so what did they interpret to be?

God bless!

I have never given an interpretation in tongues because I have never given a message in tongues to the congregation.

A “message in tongues” has a different purpose than a “prayer language.” As Paul said “one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God” (1 Cor. 2). When I pray in tongues in my car, for example, I am speaking to God and to no one else. God knows what I am saying, so why do I need to interpret it?

A “message in tongues” is different in purpose. When someone gives a message in tongues, what happens is that there is a burden within them to speak to the congregation a word of “upbuilding and encouragement and consolation” (v. 3). When they get this burden, they speak out loud enough for everyone in the church to hear them. After this is done, someone in the congregation has to interpret, whether it be the person who spoke the original message or someone else in the congregation with the gift of interpretation.

I do not have the gift of interpretation, and I have never asked for it.

 

[ltwin]

I was just wondering one thing if you don’t mind me asking: do you consider the Pentecostal church to be the true reformed church of Jesus Christ?

Which Pentecostal church are we talking about?

To seriously answer your question, I do not believe that any denomination or movement is by itself the “true church.” I believe that the true church is the body of Christ, whose members are those individuals who have been born again.

If so then where does that leave the Catholic church, in terms of being the true church established by God, on Pentecost, in Jerusalem circa AD 33?

Any Pentecostals, any Catholics, any Baptists, any Episcopalians, any Presbyterians, etc., etc., who have truly been born again are members of the body of Christ.

 

[kimg901]

I have a question for ya. I was listening to Catholic Answers Radio (like I always do ) and one of the apologists said something that made me wonder. Its obvious that you believe in Christ. Jesus started the Church ( you may disagree ) which He handed over to His Apostles. Now what gives men the right our authority to start a new church when Christ gave us His? These men started their own so people would listen to them and what they think Scripture says. We have people that have been and are going over Scripture for close to 1700 years. We all say that Christ is Truth and His Church is Truth, so why would He make up tens of thousands of new churches if He is the Truth and the Way? Thanks.

 

[SaintFrancis333]

A few years later I was baptized in the Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues, so I had moved beyond the typical evangelical Protestant experience.

I hope this doesn’t sound like a slight, but what makes you feel that you actually have the charism of tongues? It has always been understood as a charism by the Catholic Church but charisms are not a very common thing (in my general experience). Maybe charism isn’t the right word (if anyone wants to correct me here). But speaking in tongues was never a “common” thing in Scriptures and yet now you see these pentecostal groups where “many” seem to feel they have this gift.

I had a friend who is pentecostal and we had a few discussions about speaking in tongues but the conversation rarely stayed on topic for either of us and was a poor experience. But I “am” curious as to the thought process behind the whole speaking in tongues thing. I understand you can’t speak for anyone other than yourself, so I’ll ask you personally. Do you feel like you are closer to God when you speak in tongues? Have you spoken in other languages or is always the intangible stuff?

 

[ltwin]

I have a question for ya. I was listening to Catholic Answers Radio (like I always do ) and one of the apologists said something that made me wonder. Its obvious that you believe in Christ. Jesus started the Church ( you may disagree ) which He handed over to His Apostles. Now what gives men the right our authority to start a new church when Christ gave us His? These men started their own so people would listen to them and what they think Scripture says. We have people that have been and are going over Scripture for close to 1700 years. We all say that Christ is Truth and His Church is Truth, so why would He make up tens of thousands of new churches if He is the Truth and the Way? Thanks.

I think the problem that Catholics and Pentecostals have is that we see the church differently. Pentecostals see the many denominations and movements and independent churches that are part of the body of Christ as the church. It is not about having an institutional unity but a spiritual one.

Most Protestant movements did not begin because men wanted their own way (some of them did and do and that is how cults often start), but because there was a perceived problem within the originating body that the ecclesiastical powers that be would not reform.

The new body then emphasizes the teachings and practices that were lacking in the older church. So, we get many different churches that emphasize and stress different things and in different ways.

 

[grannymh]

Because I am a Catholic who prays in tongues, I need to add a clarification to the idea of “teaching prayer tongues.”

Pentecostal Churches have a long tradition of tongues dating to the early 1900’s.
The Catholic Charismatic Renewal within the Catholic Church dates to 1967.
Big difference in that Pentecostal members would not need as much preparation as Catholics need.

Because the Catholic Charismatic Renewal is a renewal, there first has to be a renewal of Sacramental life such as the Sacraments of Reconciliation and the Holy Eucharist. A refresher course about the graces of Baptism and Confirmation is also needed. Then, there is an explanation of the gift of prayer tongues, what it is etc. The Catholic teaching is that while the Holy Spirit Gift is available, a person has to freely “yield” to the Holy Spirit. For people immersed in a Pentecostal environment, yielding would be a given. For Catholics who are control freaks, yielding takes effort. Teaching" is not saying that x,y,z, has to be done. It is more like helping people with their questions.

 

[ltwin]

I hope this doesn’t sound like a slight, but what makes you feel that you actually have the charism of tongues? It has always been understood as a charism by the Catholic Church but charisms are not a very common thing (in my general experience). Maybe charism isn’t the right word (if anyone wants to correct me here). ****But speaking in tongues was never a “common” thing in Scriptures ****and yet now you see these pentecostal groups where “many” seem to feel they have this gift.

I’m curious about your bold statement. I don’t think there is conclusive evidence one way or the other that speaking in tongues was “never a common thing.” One could make that argument, but one could also argue very effectively from Scripture that tongues was common, at least in Acts and the Corinthian church of Paul’s day.

I had a friend who is pentecostal and we had a few discussions about speaking in tongues but the conversation rarely stayed on topic for either of us and was a poor experience. But I “am” curious as to the thought process behind the whole speaking in tongues thing. I understand you can’t speak for anyone other than yourself, so I’ll ask you personally. Do you feel like you are closer to God when you speak in tongues? Have you spoken in other languages or is always the intangible stuff?

I do feel close to God when I pray in tongues. However, I am not saying that I am closer to God than other people. I’m only saying that for me, praying in the spirit has been a blessing to me in my devotional life.

I have never had someone tell me that I spoke in an understandable foreign language. I have no idea what “language” I’m speaking when I pray in tongues.

 

[kimg901]

I think the problem that Catholics and Pentecostals have is that we see the church differently. Pentecostals see the many denominations and movements and independent churches that are part of the body of Christ as the church. It is not about having an institutional unity but a spiritual one.

Most Protestant movements did not begin because men wanted their own way (some of them did and do and that is how cults often start), but because there was a perceived problem within the originating body that the ecclesiastical powers that be would not reform.

But isnt that what Christ Institution is? A spiritual unity? As for the second part, I dont want to seem rude, but it sounds like they didnt get what they wanted and left and decided to start their own churches. Sounds like men that wanted their way

 

[kimg901]

I do feel close to God when I pray in tongues. However, I am not saying that I am closer to God than other people. I’m only saying that for me, praying in the spirit has been a blessing to me in my devotional life.

.

We are all given gifts by God and when we use those gifts we all feel closer to Him

 

[ltwin]

But isnt that what Christ Institution is? A spiritual unity? As for the second part, I dont want to seem rude, but it sounds like they didnt get what they wanted and left and decided to start their own churches. Sounds like men that wanted their way

Have you ever been a member of a church that split apart? No one wants to split. It is painful and hurtful. However, if theological integrity is to be maintained, it is sometimes necessary to leave bodies that have failed to protect the gospel.

 

[grannymh]

I hope this doesn’t sound like a slight, but what makes you feel that you actually have the charism of tongues? It has always been understood as a charism by the Catholic Church but charisms are not a very common thing (in my general experience). Maybe charism isn’t the right word (if anyone wants to correct me here). But speaking in tongues was never a “common” thing in Scriptures and yet now you see these pentecostal groups where “many” seem to feel they have this gift.

I had a friend who is pentecostal and we had a few discussions about speaking in tongues but the conversation rarely stayed on topic for either of us and was a poor experience. But I “am” curious as to the thought process behind the whole speaking in tongues thing. I understand you can’t speak for anyone other than yourself, so I’ll ask you personally. Do you feel like you are closer to God when you speak in tongues? Have you spoken in other languages or is always the intangible stuff?

I cannot speak for Pentecostals. I do know from reading CAF posts that Catholics have a hard time with the truth that there are actually two separate gifts in which people pray/speak in tongues. One could say that relaying God’s message to the congregation is a charism. This gift is not the one Itwin is using.

I suppose praying to God (which is what Itwin is doing in tongues) could also be a charism. Frankly, I am not familiar with all the aspects of a charism. I simply learned that the Holy Spirit gives gifts.

 

[kimg901]

Have you ever been a member of a church that split apart? No one wants to split. It is painful and hurtful. However, if theological integrity is to be maintained, it is sometimes necessary to leave bodies that have failed to protect the gospel.

I never have. So I wouldnt know about the pain. Are you saying the Our Lord allowed a split in His Church? (Im not sure if thats what your saying) And the Advocate that Christ left (Holy Spirit) failed to protect the Gospel? The same Gospel that is used by non-catholics? I guess its hard for me to understand why anyone would not want to be part of the Church of Christ. (Universal Church)

 

[MartinJordan]

However, if theological integrity is to be maintained, it is sometimes necessary to leave bodies that have failed to protect the gospel.

That’s quite a statement!

MJ

 

[ltwin]

I never have. So I wouldnt know about the pain. Are you saying the Our Lord allowed a split in His Church? (Im not sure if thats what your saying) And the Advocate that Christ left (Holy Spirit) failed to protect the Gospel? The same Gospel that is used by non-catholics? I guess its hard for me to understand why anyone would not want to be part of the Church of Christ. (Universal Church)

I’m not saying that Christ failed. I’m saying that WE did. People failed. But what satan meant for evil, God has made for good. The gospel has continued to be preached despite our differences and divisions.

 

[MartinJordan]

The gospel has continued to be preached despite our differences and divisions.

Yes, the Gospel is preached but so are the additional divisions of churches every day!

I don’t think you see the gravity of breaks that churches split when they say “no Jesus didn’t say it that way, he meant this way”. It becomes everyone’s personal church.

MJ

 

[joe370]

Which Pentecostal church are we talking about?

To seriously answer your question, I do not believe that any denomination or movement is by itself the “true church.” I believe that the true church is the body of Christ, whose members are those individuals who have been born again.

Any Pentecostals, any Catholics, any Baptists, any Episcopalians, any Presbyterians, etc., etc., who have truly been born again are members of the body of Christ.

 

[kimg901]

I’m not saying that Christ failed. I’m saying that WE did. People failed. But what satan meant for evil, God has made for good. The gospel has continued to be preached despite our differences and divisions.

Oh, haha. I got ya. But how is the Gospel being preached correctly if men are interpreting it differently for their own benefit or because they trully believe what they read is correct? It shows that all these churches divided from the CC because they didnt think something was right or they (men) thought they new exactly what the Gospels were saying or they thought the Church should be teaching it a different way. IMO, these men that started their own churches were lead away be evil (satan) as to cause division among the CC.