Ask a Pentecostal

[ltwin]

Whoa there. I never said since I never heard it, it does not exist. That still does not answer my question of why so much speaking in tongues and not so much interpretation.

I can’t really answer that question because you make a point (1) about there not being enough interpretation that (2) is entirely anecdotal and then (3) when I tell you that as far as I know tongues are still being interpreted in Pentecostal churches (4) you still say I haven’t answered your question. So, I don’t know what kind of answer you are looking for but I’ve given you the only ones I’ve got.

Also, who makes sure that the prophesies interpreted come true? Since we know that if someone makes a prophecy and it does not come true, they are a false prophet.

Who makes sure they come true? Well for one thing, prophecy is not the same thing as fortune telling. Most prophecies that come out of Pentecostal churches is forthtelling rather than foretelling. Often times it is proclamation, encouragement, consolation, and I imagine at times it could be rebuke for sin and carelessness of the things of God.

There is no magisterium that regulates prophecies. If someone gives you a personal prophecy that contains elements of foretelling, but it never is fulfilled, then you know that that person did not speak truth.

Another aspect is that pastors and church leadership have control over any one who is doing anything in a local church. So, a pastor and the other local leaders would have a responsibility for insuring that anyone who claims a prophetic gift or utterance is doing what is proper and in good order.

 

[LaughingBoy1503]

I can’t really answer that question because you make a point (1) about there not being enough interpretation that (2) is entirely anecdotal and then (3) when I tell you that as far as I know tongues are still being interpreted in Pentecostal churches (4) you still say I haven’t answered your question. So, I don’t know what kind of answer you are looking for but I’ve given you the only ones I’ve got.

Who makes sure they come true? Well for one thing, prophecy is not the same thing as fortune telling. Most prophecies that come out of Pentecostal churches is forthtelling rather than foretelling. Often times it is proclamation, encouragement, consolation, and I imagine at times it could be rebuke for sin and carelessness of the things of God.

There is no magisterium that regulates prophecies. If someone gives you a personal prophecy that contains elements of foretelling, but it never is fulfilled, then you know that that person did not speak truth.

Another aspect is that pastors and church leadership have control over any one who is doing anything in a local church. So, a pastor and the other local leaders would have a responsibility for insuring that anyone who claims a prophetic gift or utterance is doing what is proper and in good order.

Ok, I understand that.

 

[ltwin]

What has God had to say to your congregation recently?

Stuff you’d expect. Seek me my children. I love you. If you trust me, I will take care of you and watch over you.

I mean its nothing extravagant. Just a Father talking to His children.

 

[LaughingBoy1503]

Stuff you’d expect. Seek me my children. I love you. If you trust me, I will take care of you and watch over you.

I mean its nothing extravagant. Just a Father talking to His children.

Yeah, that is along the lines of what I expected to hear.

 

[EIF5A]

Stuff you’d expect. Seek me my children. I love you. If you trust me, I will take care of you and watch over you.

I mean its nothing extravagant. Just a Father talking to His children.

I’ve been to worship services where such words were uttered then interpreted.

I was like…oh, God is not going to rebuke us for being wicked sinners…?

Regardless, I was encouraged, but there was always a nagging feeling that perhaps it truly wasn’t from God…

 

[ltwin]

I’ve been to worship services where such words were uttered then interpreted.

I was like…oh, God is not going to rebuke us for being wicked sinners…?

Regardless, I was encouraged, but there was always a nagging feeling that perhaps it truly wasn’t from God…

Haha. Well, my mom told a funny story. Once my grandfather and grandmother were in this Pentecostal church. My grandfather was led to give a message and an interpretation. It was one of rebuke for that particular church. It must have been brutal because the congregation was apparently very offended and as my grandfather was giving the interpretation he and my grandmother were walking out of the church. Safe to say they weren’t welcome there again!

 

[Miriam1947]

From your comments, you make it seem like the gift of tongues is just something you asked for and were magically given. Not something that is a gift of the Spirit that is not asked for.

So if you remember your Bible, whenever people like at Pentecost were given the gift of tongues without asking God for it, they had someone to preach to. They did not just start babbling in some foreign language that no one could understand. They spoke for someone to hear what they were saying or for someone to interpret it. So at Pentecost, for example, the disciples spoke to the people of many nations that were gathered there. Other places in the New Testament where tongues are mentioned they are to be interpreted. No where in Scripture or in Sacred Tradition are people speaking in tongues just to babble on to God.

snip…

God bless!

Yes, and the people were surprised that these Jews could speak their language. That to me is the true gift of tongues. It wasn’t gibberish.

 

[FabiusMaximus]

My parents once had a very interesting experience with tongues back after they’d converted to Pentecostalism in Italy. They were praying with some people so that they could receive the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. Immediately once the Spirit came upon them, not only did they hear unintelligible tongues, but also clear, lucid, earthly languages. One elderly woman was speaking in French. Another in English. My father turned to a the latter woman, and said ‘Sister! I didn’t know you spoke English!’ And she replied: ‘I don’t! What do you mean?’

Good stuff

 

[EIF5A]

Yes, and the people were surprised that these Jews could speak their language. That to me is the true gift of tongues. It wasn’t gibberish.

Someone has alluded to this before, so I won’t go into detail, but praying in tongues for personal prayer and devotion is separate from speaking in tongues to preach.

What sounds like gibberish might be the urging and leading of the Holy Spirit to pray in an unknown language. For what reason? Who knows.

And yes, tongues can be faked, especially when emphasis is too heavily placed on it and people feel obligated to exercise that gift in public. But anything can be falsely emulated.

 

[Stylteralmaldo]

…Because we know that God never lies. We know that God has already given us His written word recorded in Holy Scripture. Therefore, we know that if something in a prophecy contradicts, denies, or diminishes anything in the word of God that we know then it is false and counterfeit…

What do Pentacostals consider to be the written word? How did Pentacostals determine what the written word contains and what books it consists of?
Itwin:

…Most of the time prophecies are not really “doctrinal” in content…

Since Pentacostals believe prophesies can be doctrinal in content, could you give me an example of a prophesy within Pentacostalism that is doctrinal in content?

 

[Steveabrous]

Philippians 4:2-3:
I entreat Euodia and I entreat Syntyche to agree in the Lord. Yes, I ask you also, true companion, help these women, who have labored side by side with me in the gospel together with Clement and the rest of my fellow workers, whose names are in the book of life.

In Romans 16:3-16, Paul greets a number of his “fellow workers in Christ Jesus” several of them women, such as Prisca and Aquila. Other women are mentioned as workers in the Gospel as well. In Romans 16:1, Paul identifies Phoebe as a deacon of the church at Cenchreae.

I said a Pastoral role. Calling someone a servant in the lord who is a woman is not the same as when the bible called Barnabas an Apostle (acts 14:14) or Paul charging timothy and titus with the church affairs. I would say that nuns are fellows servants of the lord, and co-workers in Christ, with priests and bishops, but they can’t be Pastors. We are all fellow servants of the lord but not all pastors.

Some translations of 16:1 calls her a deacon- most simply call her a servant or minister again not a pastoral title.

Yes, the bible says women are co-workers in Christ and servanrts of the lord. That is not the same as being a Pastor. That role of Appointing elders, and shepherding a flock and being an Apostle is exclusively given to men in the new testament.

I’m afraid you are trying to see something that is just not there.

 

[pismopal]

If your intent was nor snarky, forgive me. But please read again and see where one might construe your attitude as being arrogant. You, yourself, indicated that he might think he is above others because of his gift of tongues, which you don’t believe he even has.

And you question him, asking, “Do you think your gift is better than helping the truly needy?” (paraphrased).

Your string of questions came across as a subtle patronizing remark.

So…what are you suggesting? I should clear my questions with you? I am not interested in dealing with a third party. The Pentecostal was dealing with questions in his own way…and I did not read him say that he needed your help…and I am not very interested in your opinion or approval. Thanks for asking though. Have a nice day!

 

[EIF5A]

So…what are you suggesting? I should clear my questions with you? I am not interested in dealing with a third party. The Pentecostal was dealing with questions in his own way…and I did not read him say that he needed your help…and I am not very interested in your opinion or approval. Thanks for asking though. Have a nice day!

It’s an open forum.

And no, you don’t have to clear questions with anyone.

I apologized if your intent was not snarky, and I explained that your response can come across as abrasive.

But even now, you’re being confrontational and refuse to even try to understand how your words can seem condescending.

I can see why you’re being defensive. Perhaps I should’ve explained first how you were perceived to be condescending instead of charging you as being such.

 

[Miriam1947]

Someone has alluded to this before, so I won’t go into detail, but praying in tongues for personal prayer and devotion is separate from speaking in tongues to preach.

What sounds like gibberish might be the urging and leading of the Holy Spirit to pray in an unknown language. For what reason? Who knows.

And yes, tongues can be faked, especially when emphasis is too heavily placed on it and people feel obligated to exercise that gift in public. But anything can be falsely emulated.

I was not referencing Itwin’s experience with tongues. He is speaking about his personal prayer life. And if he feels that he is speaking in tongues directly to God, who am I to say he is wrong?

It was actually a Catholic who brought the whole tongues issue to my attention. And it sounded so much like some of the Fundamentalist, Pentecostal churches that I had attended in my former life as a Protestant. Uncomfortable to the extreme. It just felt so fake. Totally manipulative. It’s almost like “The Holy Spirit will show up even if we have to dance in the aisles and act like complete fools.” To me there was no real worship of God going on there, it was all a hyper emotional thing.

 

[ltwin]

What do Pentacostals consider to be the written word? How did Pentacostals determine what the written word contains and what books it consists of?

The written word is the Bible, Holy Scripture. Pentecostals didn’t “determine what the written word” was. By the time Pentecostalism emerged as a distinct tradition, canonization was long complete.

Since Pentacostals believe prophesies can be doctrinal in content, could you give me an example of a prophesy within Pentacostalism that is doctrinal in content?

I’ve personally never heard a prophecy that sets out any doctrine. There may be some prophetic preaching that contains doctrinal content, but this would be expected to reflect Scripture like all prophecy would. Prophecy in Pentecostalism is primarily about ministering “exhortation, edification, and comfort” to believers and stirring deep conviction within unbelievers. That is the purpose of prophecy within the Pentecostal tradition. For doctrine, we read the Bible.

Donald Gee wrote in Concerning Spiritual Gifts (p. 59-60):

*[Prophecy] always maintains its distinctive feature of being “inspired utterance.” There are many varying degrees of inspiration, however, and this principle must be clearly kept in mind in dealing with the respective value and authority of prophetic utterances.
There is first and foremost that which Peter calls the “prophecy of Scripture” (2 Peter 1:20); this includes the inspired written prophecy of the Old Testament and those portions of the New Testament which can be called prophecy, concluding with the Book of Revelation. This degree of inspiration was infallible.
Parallel with this, we find in both Old Testament and New Testament a type of prophecy which was evidently of a much lower degree of divine inspiration, and was not regarded as infallible. In this class must be included, for instance, Medad and Eldad and the seventy elders (Numbers 11:25-29); or the prophets whom Saul joined (1 Samuel 10:10). The prophets of the New Testament churches also seem to come in the same class, for their utterances are plainly not to be regarded as infallible; and their ministry is, generally speaking, to be limited (1 Corinthians 14:29-32). *

I’m sure there are “churches” and “ministers” who abuse this and they have their prophecies that promulgate new “doctrine”, but those tend to be fringe groups. I don’t know of one strange doctrine that has caught on among Pentecostals that originated from prophecy. But I know many that have been created out of a misunderstanding or misinterpreting of Scripture (like Oneness or positive confession).

 

[EIF5A]

I was not referencing Itwin’s experience with tongues. He is speaking about his personal prayer life. And if he feels that he is speaking in tongues directly to God, who am I to say he is wrong?

It was actually a Catholic who brought the whole tongues issue to my attention. And it sounded so much like some of the Fundamentalist, Pentecostal churches that I had attended in my former life as a Protestant. Uncomfortable to the extreme. It just felt so fake. Totally manipulative. It’s almost like “The Holy Spirit will show up even if we have to dance in the aisles and act like complete fools.” To me there was no real worship of God going on there, it was all a hyper emotional thing.

Ahh, OK. I have never been to a church where people were dancing in the aisles or twisting and contorting on the ground. Sounds…interesting.

My only experiences have been where a single person gave a word or where everyone was praying individually, but in a group setting.

In your previous church, were they in full control of their bodies or did they appear out of control? I had heard/read of people barking.

 

[ltwin]

I said a Pastoral role. Calling someone a servant in the lord who is a woman is not the same as when the bible called Barnabas an Apostle (acts 14:14) or Paul charging timothy and titus with the church affairs. I would say that nuns are fellows servants of the lord, and co-workers in Christ, with priests and bishops, but they can’t be Pastors. We are all fellow servants of the lord but not all pastors.

Some translations of 16:1 calls her a deacon- most simply call her a servant or minister again not a pastoral title.

Yes, it is convenient how some translate diakonos as “servant” because she is a woman.

Yes, the bible says women are co-workers in Christ and servanrts of the lord. That is not the same as being a Pastor. That role of Appointing elders, and shepherding a flock and being an Apostle is exclusively given to men in the new testament.

I’m afraid you are trying to see something that is just not there.

How can you say that all he is talking about is work that all Christians are called to do? He says plainly:

Yes, I ask you also, true companion,help these women, who have labored side by side with me in the gospel together with Clement and the rest of my fellow workers . . .

Euodia and Syntyche were doing the same work that Clement, yes the future pope, was doing. These women were preaching the gospel. And Prisca and Aquila were leading a house church!

 

[LaughingBoy1503]

My parents once had a very interesting experience with tongues back after they’d converted to Pentecostalism in Italy. They were praying with some people so that they could receive the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. Immediately once the Spirit came upon them, not only did they hear unintelligible tongues, but also clear, lucid, earthly languages. One elderly woman was speaking in French. Another in English. My father turned to a the latter woman, and said ‘Sister! I didn’t know you spoke English!’ And she replied: ‘I don’t! What do you mean?’

Good stuff

Yeah, that is good stuff I find that more in line with the Biblical “Speaking in tongues” and maybe even interpretation that the so called “Babbling” in unintelligible language. Just my opinion though. I don’t know the Churches official teaching on the matter. Although the OP has reminded me that there are different kinds of speaking in tongues. I guess it is just not for everyone.

 

[followingtheway]

“Ask a [(name removed by moderator)ut your non-Catholic religion here]” threads seem popular. So, any questions that you want to ask about Pentecostalism?

There’s a couple of girls in my school who are Pentecostal. Some of them wear mini-skirts while some used to, and some don’t. Why is this?

 

[ltwin]

It’s almost like “The Holy Spirit will show up even if we have to dance in the aisles and act like complete fools.” To me there was no real worship of God going on there, it was all a hyper emotional thing.

Well, King David did dance before the Lord, and his own wife thought he looked like a complete fool.

2 Samuel 6:14, 21-22:

And David danced before the Lord with all his might. . . . and I will celebrate before the Lord. I will make myself yet more contemptible than this, and I will be abased in your eyes.