Ask about Catholic Charismatic Renewal

[JohnPaulTwoToo]

This is about those who know Him, His bride , His body the church.

Precisely why I consider modern Protestants to be pitifully dumbed-down and lost. Martin Luther would agree. I’ve spent considerable time among Protestants, observed their worship, and endured many hours of their televangelism. I understand them very well.

Why Catholicism Makes Protestantism Tick: Louis Bouyer on the Reformation

Lest you claim again that you’re members in good standing of Christ’s Church:

FIFTH QUESTION

Why do the texts of the Council and those of the Magisterium since the Council not use the title of “Church” with regard to those Christian Communities born out of the Reformation of the sixteenth century?

RESPONSE

According to Catholic doctrine, these Communities do not enjoy apostolic succession in the sacrament of Orders, and are, therefore, deprived of a constitutive element of the Church. These ecclesial Communities which, specifically because of the absence of the sacramental priesthood, have not preserved the genuine and integral substance of the Eucharistic Mystery[19] cannot, according to Catholic doctrine, be called “Churches” in the proper sense[20].

[19] Cf. Second Vatican Council, Decree Unitatis redintegratio, 22.3.

[20] Cf. Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, Declaration Dominus Iesus, 17.2: AAS 92 [2000-II] 758.

RESPONSES TO SOME QUESTIONS REGARDING CERTAIN ASPECTS OF THE DOCTRINE ON THE CHURCH

You can begin to learn the basics of authentic Christianity at an RCIA program:

If This Is Christianity, I’m Outta Here!

How to become a Catholic

If you disdain small graces, you will never obtain great ones. Try for the simple truths.

 

[johnstown_johnn]

Isn’t the “laying of hands” during priestly ordinations an unbroken flowing of the Holy Spirit from the time of Peter? Bishops lay hands on those being ordained and is a succession of 2,000 years.

Protestants have broken away from that continuity.

Also, when we received the Sacrament of Confirmation it was through a bishop. There was a delicate touch on the cheek by the bishop to all of those about to receive the Holy Spirit. That says it all, for me, at least.

 

[JohnPaulTwoToo]

The word chrisma means gifts. I am speaking of the nine gifts of the spirit as listed in1 Corenthians 12.

And… is stupidity a gift of the Holy Spirit?

Father: Funeral protest made him sick

 

[hope_7]

I would love to meet up with charismatic catholics that really are in love with the Lord that have recieved the baptism of the Holy Spirit and that speak in other tongues as the spirit gives the utterance and that move in the gifts of the spirit. I would also like to meet with those who are true mystics in the church as well.

 

[JohnPaulTwoToo]

There are more tears shed over answered prayers than over unanswered ones. – St. Teresa of Avila

I would love to meet up with charismatic catholics that really are in love with the Lord that have recieved the baptism of the Holy Spirit and that speak in other tongues as the spirit gives the utterance and that move in the gifts of the spirit. I would also like to meet with those who are true mystics in the church as well.

Divine Mercy Novena - Fifth Day: Heretics and Schismatics

I desire, Jesus told Sister Faustina, that during these nine days you bring souls to the fount of My mercy, that they may draw therefrom strength and refreshment and whatever graces they need in the hardships of life and, especially, at the hour of death. On each day you will bring to My Heart a different group of souls, and you will immerse them in this ocean of My mercy, and I will bring all these souls into the house of My Father… on each day you will beg My Father, on the strength of My bitter Passion, for graces for these souls.

Fifth Day

Today, bring to Me the souls of heretics and schismatics, and immerse them in the ocean of my Mercy. During My bitter Passion they tore at My Body and Heart; that is, My Church. As they return to unity with the Church, My wounds heal, and in this way they alleviate My Passion.

*Most Merciful Jesus, Goodness Itself, You do not refuse light to those who seek it of You. Receive into the abode of Your Most Compassionate heart the souls of heretics and schismatics. Draw them by Your light into the unity of the Church, and do not let them escape from the abode of Your Most Compassionate Heart; but bring it about that they, too, come to adore the generosity of Your mercy.

Eternal Father, turn Your merciful gaze upon the souls of heritics and schismatics, who have squandered Your blessings and misused Your graces by obstinately persisting in their errors. Do not look upon their errors, but upon the love of Your own Son and upon His bitter Passion, which He underwent for their sake, since they, too, are enclosed in the Most Compassionate Heart of Jesus. Bring it about that they also may glorify Your great mercy for endless ages. Amen.*

Divine Mercy, together with Fatima, and the Montfortean evangelization, renewed by St. Maximilian Kolbe, answer fully answer Pope John XIII’s prayer for a new outpouring of the Holy Spirit. As reflecting the preordination of the economy of grace, this prayer had already been answered and only awaited eyes that could see and ears that could hear. This is, as prophecied in the revelations themselves, the last outpouring of grace. There is no more time to shop around for revelations to suit your personal taste.

 

[Dorothy_Vining]

Quote:
Originally Posted by hope 7
The word chrisma means gifts. I am speaking of the nine gifts of the spirit as listed in1 Corenthians 12.

Response by JohnPaul II2:
And… is stupidity a gift of the Holy Spirit?

JPII2: That is totally uncalled for! You make me ashamed to be a Catholic. “God is Love, and he who abides in Love abides in God, and God in Him.” Hope 7 is a God-loving, God-seeking, God-serving, Scripture reading Christian. Would you have been as disrespectful to Scott and Kimberly Hahn, Pat Madrid, Peter Kreeft, Marcus Grodi, Richard John Neuhaus, etc., etc., while they were still pilgrims on the way and had not yet reached your (presumed) pinnacle?

“Come Holy Spirit, fill the hearts of your faithful. Kindle in them the fire of your love.”

 

[JohnPaulTwoToo]

You make me ashamed to be a Catholic.

Mark 8
38 For he that shall be ashamed of me, and of my words, in this adulterous and sinful generation: the Son of man also will be ashamed of him, when he shall come in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.

DV: You’ve already expressed your contempt for the Church and for her priests. Sinfullness like yours is a long, slow decent into darkness; don’t tar me with it. Confirmation and marriage oblige me with the duty and grace to drive away the wolves that prey on our family of faith. I’m sure that the converts you named have great remorse for the innocents that they misled in their blindness, and tremble for the restitution they owe for the evil they have done.

 

[hope_7]

John two too

Actually John it is you who has done more to drive me away from the catholic church. I am not roman catholic but I am looking into joining the catholic church. I am awaiting a return call from a church near me about the rcia. and have been praying about this for a long time.

 

[JohnPaulTwoToo]

Actually John it is you who has done more to drive me away from the catholic church. I am not roman catholic but I am looking into joining the catholic church. I am awaiting a return call from a church near me about the rcia. and have been praying about this for a long time.

Hope, if God intends to bring you into the Truth, there is nothing you can do to avoid it. My own experience.

And what is my experience? Thought you’d never ask!

When I first went into the world as a young man, I was very shocked by the immorality of Protestant women. I was positively appalled, especially, by the evident evil malice of women associated with Freemasonry, through family or direct involvement like Eastern Star. This was a small sample, so I considered that, perhaps, I was just plain unlucky. Keep in mind, that this was before Catholic women had followed their Protestant sisters into the culture of death. The comparison was very striking for me.

Then, due to financial difficulty during university, I took up residence in a Protestant divinity school. What I saw there was eye opening! The students were prurient little boys – I can’t call them men – who looked on women as sex toys. I couldn’t believe that these people were actually called to ministry. They were worldlings, not servants of God.

This motivated me to look into Protestant history a bit. I learned that John Calvin had been a Catholic seminarian who was expelled for sins of the flesh. I learned that he abolished all sexual morality in his sect, even allowing polygamy at one point. I discovered that many princes and kings adopted Protestantism as a means of legitimizing adultery. I was born long enough ago to remember when Catholics divorced very rarely, unlike Protestants, and endured great hardships to preserve their families. The transgressions of Swaggart, Baker, et all put a seal of certainty on the moral putridity the other side of the Tiber. I don’t find it mere coincidence that the recent moral decline in the Catholic Church was simultaneous with the rise of Charismatic enthusiasm. What do I think of Catholicized Protestants who want to Protestantize Catholics? Here are the kind of people you think the Holy Spirit favours with His gifts: THE CULTURAL DEVASTATION OF AMERICAN WOMEN

Your side of the Tiber, folks like to say “Call no man Father”. Well, meet Daddy! Get used to the words “Not with my daughter!” (or son). I make it my business to examine anyone who enters my home. If this isn’t what you’re entering the Catholic Church for, you’re in the wrong place.

 

[JohnPaulTwoToo]

Couldn’t get this in within the edit time limit:

Yes, the Gifts flowered in little Milly Neuzil and conveyed an exortation to purity to Americans through her. Will they come to a stadium full of American women? I think that’s very unlikely.

Our Lady of America

 

[JohnPaulTwoToo]

Yes!!! They’ve finally posted it!

Here’s the ONLY authentic pneumatology:

St. Maximilian on the Holy Spirit

“You alone have destroyed all heresies in the whole world.” The Immaculate, therefore, crushes the head of the serpent and destroys his enormous body composed of the most diverse heresies of various times and places. It is not written, however, that the Immaculate destroys heretics, because She loves all souls and for the love that She has for them She destroys the “heresies”, with the aim of freeing them from the heretical plague.” (SK #1330)

The union between the Immaculata and the Holy Spirit is so inexpressible, yet so perfect, that the Holy Spirit acts only by the Most Blessed Virgin, his Spouse. (Letter to Father Mikolajezyk, July 25, 1935)

Get a Miraculous Medal, get it blessed by a priest, and now you can say you have a gift!

 

[Catherine_Grant]

**A number of offensive and uncharitable posts were removed from this thread. I remind posters to please not entertain uncharitable posts but to instead report them to the moderation staff through the red triangle in the top right of each post.

If the charity level does not improve, the thread will be closed.

May God Bless You Abundantly,
Catherine Grant
Moderator**

 

[Dorothy_Vining]

How about this for authenic pneumatology?

*1098 The assembly should prepare itself to encounter its Lord and to become “a people well
disposed.” the preparation of hearts is the joint work of the Holy Spirit and the assembly,
especially of its ministers. the grace of the Holy Spirit seeks to awaken faith, conversion of heart,
and adherence to the Father’s will. These dispositions are the precondition both for the
reception of other graces conferred in the celebration itself and the fruits of new life which the
celebration is intended to produce afterward.

1101 The Holy Spirit gives a spiritual understanding of the Word of God to those who read or
hear it, according to the dispositions of their hearts. – Catechism of the Catholic Church.*

Let me tell you about my confirmation. As a cradle Catholic I was baptized and confirmed according to the accepted routine. I know I was confirmed because I have a confirmation name and a certificate. I remember NOTHING about receiving the sacrament. My guess is that I was not properly disposed at any significant level.

My guess is that the seal is there, but might have to be unsealed. A gift must not only be given but received. That is why I keep repeating – it has become my mantra –

Are you trying to do the will of the Father?
Are you following Jesus as your Lord?
Then how can it hurt to ask for more of God’s Spirit?

Even if you are a confirmed Catholic. Even if you are an ordained priest.

I know a priest who went to a charismatic meeting because he thought all that charismatic stuff was a lot of hooey. He was going to find out what was wrong with it. He went into a room where a bunch of priests were praying in tongues. The next thing he knew his hands were in the air and he, too, was praying in tongues. He came back to our parish and started a prayer group. He even invited Father DiOrio to our church.

Do not stifle the Spirit!

Come Holy Spirit, fill the hearts of your faithful. Kindle in us the fire of your love.

 

[hope_7]

One of the greatest hinderances to people receiving the baptism of the Holy Spirit is they cannot admit their not haveing this. Its like a person that is lost and on their way to hell. They cannot recieve the grace of forgiveness of sins and eternal life through Christ Jesus untill they can admit to their own poverty. For the kingdom of God to become ours we must become poor. When one recieves the gift of eternal life it is like a written contract between them and God. Each is committed to each other. Its like God is buying the house. To show that He is serious He takes and gives a pledge showing He means what He has said so that no one else can move in on the house. The baptism in the spirit seals the deal.

 

[JohnPaulTwoToo]

One of the greatest hinderances to people receiving the baptism of the Holy Spirit is they cannot admit their not haveing this.

I’ve known people “receiving the baptism of the Holy Spirit”, speaking in tongues, and waxing elequent about scripture who were living the gay lifestyle and engaging in serial unmarried sexual relationships. There are gifts everywhere. They are received according to the disposition of the receiver. The spirit can be holy, or it can be unclean. The reception can be pure or it can be distorted. The Pentecostal practice of directly invoking the Spirit (hopefully holy) is fraught with danger because of this uncertainty and natural human concupicience. A disposition to “spiritize” Christianity, downplaying the Incarnation, the unity of body and soul (especially the holiness of the body), and the intercession of the saints and Mary leaves an aspirant very vulnerable to delusion and perversion.

Imagine the economy of grace as a game of snakes-and-ladders. Human efforts at holiness are like the normal roll of the dice. The snares of the devil are, appropriately, like the snakes. Mary and the saints are the ladders. Now, imagine playing the game with all the ladders removed. That’s what life in the Old Testament was like – repeated failure. Some Christians have chosen to live that way in this time, too. It’s a time-tested formula for impurity and the human tragedy that arises from it.

Now, think about the implications of the Immaculate Conception, the Annunciation and Incarnation, the Assumption, and the great corporal holiness of Mary’s numerous clients.

The Franciscan Chronicles tell how Brother Leo once saw a red ladder at the top of which Jesus was standing, and a white ladder on which Mary stood. He saw how some tried to mount the red ladder, but fell to the ground after climbing a few rungs. Again and again they tried, but each time they fell down. Then they were urged to mount the white ladder. This they did without difficulty, because the Blessed Virgin stretched out a helping hand and led them safely to paradise.

No, the greatest hindrance is sin of the flesh. Learn purity in Mary’s school, and you’ll be introduced to her Holy Spouse.

 

[Dorothy_Vining]

From JP2too:

Quote:
The Franciscan Chronicles tell how Brother Leo once saw a red ladder at the top of which Jesus was standing, and a white ladder on which Mary stood. He saw how some tried to mount the red ladder, but fell to the ground after climbing a few rungs. Again and again they tried, but each time they fell down. Then they were urged to mount the white ladder. This they did without difficulty, because the Blessed Virgin stretched out a helping hand and led them safely to paradise

From Hope 7:

How can you who adores Mary the mother of God bypass the fact that she was in that room with the apostles, especially the apostle Peter.

Reading the first quote above it is easy to see why protestants might think Catholics rank Mary higher than Jesus. It appears that Mary is a better Savior than Jesus. (Of course we have no obligation to accept private revelations.) Mary is the highest ranking human but she is not divine and we do not adore her. Mary is honored as the mother of Jesus. She has many other beautiful titles; she is highly revered but not adored. Adoration only goes to the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit.

Her role, as I see it, was to bring Jesus to mankind (in time) and to bring mankind to Jesus (in eternity). What a woman!

For those who are afraid to pray to the HOLY Spirit for fear they may be invaded by something evil, how about praying to someone you respect and trust? Like Mary. Ask her to ask her Spouse to fill you so that Jesus may grow in you. Or ask Jesus who said he is the one that baptizes in the Holy Spirit. (John 1:33, Matthew 3:11)

Come, Holy Spirit!

 

[johnstown_johnn]

From JP2too:

From Hope 7:

Reof course we have no obligation to ading the first quote above it is easy to see why protestants might think Catholics rank Mary higher than Jesus. It appears that Mary is a better Savior than Jesus. (Of course we have no obligation to accept private revelations.) Mary is the highest ranking human but she is not divine and we do not adore her. Mary is honored as the mother of Jesus. She has many other beautiful titles; she is highly revered but not adored. Adoration only goes to the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit.

Her role, as I see it, was to bring Jesus to mankind (in time) and to bring mankind to Jesus (in eternity). What a woman!

For those who are afraid to pray to the HOLY Spirit for fear they may be invaded by something evil, how about praying to someone you respect and trust? Like Mary. Ask her to ask her Spouse to fill you so that Jesus may grow in you. Or ask Jesus who said he is the one that baptizes in the Holy Spirit. (John 1:33, Matthew 3:11)

Come, Holy Spirit!

…(of course we have no obligation to accept private revelations…) True enough!

But we also have NO obligation to accept the goings on in Pentacostal meetings either. The tongues; the faintings; are not incumbent for the Faithful to believe. They can outright REJECT those phenomena and STILL be in favor with God.

 

[hope_7]

Quote from Johnstown John
(But we also have NO obligation to accept the goings on in Pentacostal meetings either. The tongues; the faintings; are not incumbent for the Faithful to believe. They can outright REJECT those phenomena and STILL be in favor with God.)

I can see why there is so much misunderstanding about the Holy Spirit and speaking in tounges and we really havent even began to discus the charismatic part yet.

 One of the problems is that we go to a meeting or we hear someone talking about thease things. In many cases  condeming this. I have been in many meetings penticostal and charismatic for more then 30 years and there is a differance. I have seen the good and the bad, I can tell you alot from experiance but this is not where you need to look. Where a person needs to look is in the scriptures. This is always the wisest place to go in a case like this.

Take for instance the faintings or what people call being slain in the spirit or falling under the power of God. Would not an example of something happening like this be found in scripture? Take a look at John18:4-6. In verse 6 is an example of this fainting that you speak of. Another example of something like this would be in Revelation1:17 The prophet Ezekial had this experiance as well. Perhaps thease are a little differant then what you saw at that church you visited but thease in the bible are authentic and were of God.
When people in this country were hearing about the baptism in the Holy Spirit in the beginning of the last century. There were no penticostal or charismatic denominations within the protestant churches. People who heard of this when it began in this country denounced this like many have in our time. But there were those who took the time to look into the scriptures to see if thease things were so. When they had made a thorough search of the scriptures and were convinced for themselves that this was of God then and only then did they begin to seek God for this blessing. They would gather together many times and seek God in prayer all night and day They would even take off from there jobs and seek God for the baptism in the Holy Ghost. They would seek Him until they recieved this gift. Jesus called this the promise of His Father Luke 24:49

You dont have to believe that this gift is for you. You can go to heaven without the baptism in the Holy Spirit. But I would urge everyone here to leave what everyone is saying and look into the scriptures and see what they say. This is a good practice. You dont have to come up with some great revelation. Just read them and see what they say about this subject. Find all the places that the bible speakes on this. Put aside any preconcieved ideas that you may have and just let God by His Holy Spirit speak to you.

 

[JohnPaulTwoToo]

But I would urge everyone here to leave what everyone is saying and look into the scriptures and see what they say. This is a good practice. You dont have to come up with some great revelation. Just read them and see what they say about this subject.

I think this pretty much cuts to the quick:

Luke 18
*9 And to some who trusted in themselves as just, and despised others, he spoke also this parable: 10 Two men went up into the temple to pray: the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.

11 The Pharisee standing, prayed thus with himself: O God, I give thee thanks that I am not as the rest of men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, as also is this publican. 12 I fast twice in a week: I give tithes of all that I possess. 13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not so much as lift up his eyes towards heaven; but struck his breast, saying: O god, be merciful to me a sinner. 14 I say to you, this man went down into his house justified rather that the other: because every one that exalteth himself, shall be humbled: and he that humbleth himself, shall be exalted.*

[SIGN]I chose the fozen[/SIGN]

St. Maximilian had a gift for cutting through the masonry, and its pentecostal spawn:

“With what intention must we offer the Holy Rosary? Don’t you think that the best intention is that the Masons convert as soon as possible, or rather, that they even enroll themselves in the Militia of the Immaculate and, with the desire to make reparation for the evil they have caused up till now, put themselves to work with greater fervor, following the example of St. Paul after his conversion, for the salvation of souls.” (SK #1133)

[SIGN]Give dry a try[/SIGN]

 

[monokorobo]

I have some question about Catholic Charismatics Renewal:

1. Did Vatikan concede the Catholic Charismatic Renewal (CCR) and affiliated Catholic Charismatic (CCR) in Catholic Church? Is Catholic Charismatic truely Catholic? Has CCR already proper with the doctrine of Roman Catholic?
2. Why did Vatikan/Pope not notify (officially, for ex.ensiklik, motu proprio, etc)) or declare about Catholic Charismatic Movement (CCR) received or no received in Roman Catholic Church?
3. As we know that in many Catholics Charismatic community, they have a lot of abuse. Why Catholic Church or Vatikan can tolerate this abuse? Because many community CCR in my country (Jakarta) they practice like protestant in their worship or praise. (that abuse for ex. holy spirit baptism, speak in tongue, resting, miracles illness, etc?
4. Some Catholics in my country said that CCR is misguided/heterodox so, Catholic mankind is not permissible to join in with CCR. Is Catholic Charismatic really misguided?

I’m sorry if my english look “upside-down”…, because my english is bad enough. I hope you understand what the point in my question.

Thank you.