Ask about Catholic Charismatic Renewal

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I would say for one reason that the Pope ruled earlier this year that other churches are defective and that there is no salvation outside of the church. I also believe that this would include not having to do with things that are a product of other faiths, because using protestant songs instead of Catholic ones seems to me to be illegal because if this was a credible movement the Holy Spirit who is always with the Church would have revealed something to us and since the Hoy Spirit has not, then it leads me to believe that this is not a Catholic deal and should not be in the Church.🤷
I guess that rules out Amazing Grace then 😦
 
I would say for one reason that the Pope ruled earlier this year that other churches are defective and that there is no salvation outside of the church. I also believe that this would include not having to do with things that are a product of other faiths, because using protestant songs instead of Catholic ones seems to me to be illegal because if this was a credible movement the Holy Spirit who is always with the Church would have revealed something to us and since the Hoy Spirit has not, then it leads me to believe that this is not a Catholic deal and should not be in the Church.🤷
When a hymn, whatever its origin, passes muster according to Catholic dogmatic principles, then to reject it simply because a non-Catholic wrote it is to yield to what is known as the “genetic fallacy.”
 
When a hymn, whatever its origin, passes muster according to Catholic dogmatic principles, then to reject it simply because a non-Catholic wrote it is to yield to what is known as the “genetic fallacy.”
I don’t know what genetic fallacy is, what I do know is that the Holy Spirit will always be with the church because that is what God the Father said through his son Jesus Christ and if the Holy Spirit has not moved our Church through the Pope, magisterium, congregation for the Doctrine of Faith etc, etc, then it is not real.
I find it personally laughable that people need this to feel close to God. I find that saying my our fathers and hail Mary’s brings me close and doing confession and being at sacrificial mass is great stuff to be close to Heaven, especially the Rosary being a terrific weapon of faith against evil. This movement does not convince me in the least as being credible, you must remember that there are all kinds of chaff within the wheat i.e. the church that needs sifting and that does include priests, bishops and Cardinals. So whoever is behind this movement has alterior motives whether they are aware or not. I suspect the devil is using this to his desires and not Almighty God. I say this is a bad thing and is completely unwarranted, if you guys like this stuff why don’t you go and see Benny Hinn and other crooks like him for this very uncatholic practice.
 
I find it personally laughable that people need this to feel close to God. I find that saying my our fathers and hail Mary’s brings me close and doing confession and being at sacrificial mass is great stuff to be close to Heaven, especially the Rosary being a terrific weapon of faith against evil. This movement does not convince me in the least as being credible, you must remember that there are all kinds of chaff within the wheat i.e. the church that needs sifting and that does include priests, bishops and Cardinals. So whoever is behind this movement has alterior motives whether they are aware or not. I suspect the devil is using this to his desires and not Almighty God. I say this is a bad thing and is completely unwarranted,
(if you guys like this stuff why don’t you go and see Benny Hinn and other crooks like him for this very uncatholic practice.)
Perhaps we should change from looking at everyone else and look at what happened in Acts and how in the early church it was the norm to be baptised in the Holy Ghost and speak in other tongues as the Spirit gives utterance… They also moved in the gifts of the Spirit as well. People were healed demons were cast out people really were saved and had their sins forgiven. Thease things were not limited to the apostles Not only were there apostles but their were prophets evangelests preachers and teachers at work. This gift of the Holy Spirit empowered all the believers of that day to evangelize the world then and now.
Notice there were no rosaries and people were not taught to pray to Mary in the early church. I am not saying that praying to Mary is bad and I am not against praying the rosary. We need the prayers of Mary and all the saints.

This is not a matter to take lightly Jesus told His disciples to go and wait for the promise of the Father. This was a command !! What makes us better then those who had been with Jesus to think that we do not need this as well and to just shrug it off as some schism in the church calling it false when all we have to quote is other peoples ideas.
By the way that thease posts have read quoting other people and so on I wonder why they seem to have more authority in your lives then God Himself. He gave to us His Word and you seem to be rejecting it .
Why is it that no one is willing to really take a look at God,s word and see what it really says about this.?
 
I don’t know what genetic fallacy is, what I do know is that the Holy Spirit will always be with the church because that is what God the Father said through his son Jesus Christ and if the Holy Spirit has not moved our Church through the Pope, magisterium, congregation for the Doctrine of Faith etc, etc, then it is not real.
Since 90% of what Protestants profess is exactly parallel with the Catholic faith, a hymn that speaks Catholic truth about a Catholic teaching, even if written by a Calvinist, can happily meet the standards of the Magisterium.
I find it personally laughable that people need this to feel close to God.I find it rather telling that you would judge as “laughable” something that meets another person’s “need.” God is all about meeting “needs.”
I find that saying my our fathers and hail Mary’s brings me close and doing confession and being at sacrificial mass is great stuff to be close to Heaven, especially the Rosary being a terrific weapon of faith against evil.
And nobody is challenging you in any way.
This movement does not convince me in the least as being credible, you must remember that there are all kinds of chaff within the wheat i.e. the church that needs sifting and that does include priests, bishops and Cardinals. So whoever is behind this movement has alterior motives whether they are aware or not. I suspect the devil is using this to his desires and not Almighty God. I say this is a bad thing and is completely unwarranted, if you guys like this stuff why don’t you go and see Benny Hinn and other crooks like him for this very uncatholic practice.
Are you equating Catholic Charismatics, such as Fr. Benedict Groeschel, with Benny Hinn?
 
Being baptised today is the same as then, we are baptised in the Name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit Amen. There is no difference. Speaking in strange tongues comes from pentecostalism and it is false. Speaking in tongues only menat that someone like Paul who had never been to another country and did not know the language could go there and speak in his native tongue and the people there could understand him and he also could understand them in their native dialect. Speaking in tongues and strange utterances, the way you refer it is not real. The real speaking in tongues was for the Gospel and the message of God to be spread to all parts of the world and the Holy Spirit allowed for our Church Fathers to understand people who spoke entirely different languages and vice versa. Thats it, it is ot some strange angelic language as some purport it to be. This is just nonsense that Satan is using to fool our church brethren, he dabs a little bit of truth in with a lot of falsehoods that look legit if you don’t examine it further and wha la, we have a new charismatic movement that people wanna jump right on board with. God has never had anything to do with this because it is not neccessary, the our fathers, confession, sacrificial mass, confession and the Eucharist is all that we need with our faith. The Rosary was given to us by Mary in apparitions that were investigated by Rome and proved out to be real. Why would I speak in a language unknown to everybody that was giving me an important message from God that could not be readily shared with all, makes no sense and is completely against the grain. God is open and honest to a T with all things we NEED to know. This movement is gonna prove out to be heretical and evil and many souls I fear will be lost to it. Look into this very hard and with great incredulity brothers and sisters, I really am worried about this.😦
I find it personally laughable that people need this to feel close to God. I find that saying my our fathers and hail Mary’s brings me close and doing confession and being at sacrificial mass is great stuff to be close to Heaven, especially the Rosary being a terrific weapon of faith against evil. This movement does not convince me in the least as being credible, you must remember that there are all kinds of chaff within the wheat i.e. the church that needs sifting and that does include priests, bishops and Cardinals. So whoever is behind this movement has alterior motives whether they are aware or not. I suspect the devil is using this to his desires and not Almighty God. I say this is a bad thing and is completely unwarranted,
 
This movement is gonna prove out to be heretical and evil and many souls I fear will be lost to it. Look into this very hard and with great incredulity brothers and sisters, I really am worried about this.
Oh my goodness! Where to start? I’m truly glad that we have some Catholic Charismatics posting on this thread (and at least one Protestant Charismatic) who actually know what goes on among charismatics. Tongues seems to be such a hang-up, but God thought of it, not us.

1 Corinthians 14:5a, 39 I would like every one of you to speak in tongues… [39] Therefore, my
brothers, be eager to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues.
So, it doesn’t matter if you see a need for tongues or not.

1 Corinthians 14:14-15, KJV For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my
understanding is unfruitful. What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the
understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.
This means that sometimes we praise in tongues, worshiping with our hearts but not with our understanding. Sometimes, as at Pentecost, the tongues are understandable to those present, sometimes tongues are interpreted by others present, and sometimes they are just for praise when words are not enough.

For those who think the charismatic renewal is the work of Satan, I would ask that you read my post (on page 8 of this thread) (post #119) and see the outpouring of God’s spirit in these days! All these people are now saying “Jesus is Lord.” According to Scripture ** 1 Corinthians 12:3 No one can say “Jesus is Lord” except by the Holy Spirit.
** It looks to me that those fighting the charismatic movement are doing the work of Satan, trying to squelch the outpouring of the Spirit promised in these latter days!!!

Do not stifle the Spirit! PLEASE read scripture prayerfully.
 
I do not stifle the spirit ever and I guess you can interpret scripture any way that fits your own justification. Bottom line is if it ain’t needed then it ain’t real. Oh and by the way Satan and all the demons in hell call Jesus Lord also so I don’t care who you say is outpouring all of this protestant evangelical garbage, Catholic Church was here long before yours and will be here long after it’s gone, the one true church does not need any byproduct of a protestant denomination to pollute it. So I guess you can keep on preaching this nonsense of strange tongues which is really truly only for the apostles to understand people that spoke other dialects, not for people that fall over and writhe around speaking gibberish. Praying with a strange tongue is to pray with the spirit which is not flesh like our tongue and lips.
So I don’t care whether you think your right or not, go ahead and condemn yourselves, protestants usually like to exalt themselves anyways.🤷
Oh my goodness! Where to start? I’m truly glad that we have some Catholic Charismatics posting on this thread (and at least one Protestant Charismatic) who actually know what goes on among charismatics. Tongues seems to be such a hang-up, but God thought of it, not us.

1 Corinthians 14:5a, 39 I would like every one of you to speak in tongues… [39] Therefore, my
brothers, be eager to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues.
So, it doesn’t matter if you see a need for tongues or not.

1 Corinthians 14:14-15, KJV For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my
understanding is unfruitful. What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the
understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.
This means that sometimes we praise in tongues, worshiping with our hearts but not with our understanding. Sometimes, as at Pentecost, the tongues are understandable to those present, sometimes tongues are interpreted by others present, and sometimes they are just for praise when words are not enough.

For those who think the charismatic renewal is the work of Satan, I would ask that you read my post (on page 8 of this thread) (post #119) and see the outpouring of God’s spirit in these days! All these people are now saying “Jesus is Lord.” According to Scripture ** 1 Corinthians 12:3 No one can say “Jesus is Lord” except by the Holy Spirit.
** It looks to me that those fighting the charismatic movement are doing the work of Satan, trying to squelch the outpouring of the Spirit promised in these latter days!!!

Do not stifle the Spirit! PLEASE read scripture prayerfully.
 
Speaking in strange tongues comes from pentecostalism and it is false. Speaking in tongues only menat that someone like Paul who had never been to another country and did not know the language could go there and speak in his native tongue and the people there could understand him and he also could understand them in their native dialect. Speaking in tongues and strange utterances, the way you refer it is not real. The real speaking in tongues was for the Gospel and the message of God to be spread to all parts of the world and the Holy Spirit allowed for our Church Fathers to understand people who spoke entirely different languages and vice versa. Thats it, it is ot some strange angelic language as some purport it to be. This is just nonsense that Satan is using to fool our church brethren, he dabs a little bit of truth in with a lot of falsehoods that look legit if you don’t examine it further and wha la, we have a new charismatic movement that people wanna jump right on board with.
No - Paul did not need to speak foreign languages. Greek was the common tongue throughout the civilised world. All the NT was written Greek, and even the OT was translated into
Greek.

Consider Acts 10:34-46:

"Then Peter began to speak to them: “I truly understand that God shows no partiality, but in every nation anyone who fears him and does what is right is acceptable to him. You know the message he sent to the people of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ—he is Lord of all. That message spread throughout Judea, beginning in Galilee after the baptism that John announced: how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power; how he went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with him. We are witnesses to all that he did both in Judea and in Jerusalem. They put him to death by hanging him on a tree; but God raised him on the third day and allowed him to appear, not to all the people but to us who were chosen by God as witnesses, and who ate and drank with him after he rose from the dead. He commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that he is the one ordained by God as judge of the living and the dead. All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.”
While Peter was still speaking, the Holy Spirit fell upon all who heard the word. The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astounded that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles, **for they heard them speaking in tongues and extolling God. "
**
They could understand Peter perfectly well & presumably Peter could understand them since he had been talking to Cornelius before this passage. So why the gift of tongues if it is just the ability to speak a foreign language. Who was Cornelius speaking to? Well it tells us - he was praising God. So he was speaking a language God understood which is what tongues is.

The take Acts 19:1-7
While Apollos was in Corinth, Paul passed through the interior regions and came to Ephesus, where he found some disciples. He said to them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you became believers?” They replied, “No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.” Then he said, “Into what then were you baptized?” They answered, “Into John’s baptism.” Paul said, “John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in the one who was to come after him, that is, in Jesus.” On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. When Paul had laid his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied—altogether there were about twelve of them.

Again Paul and they could converse perfectly well. No need for foreign languages. But they spoke in tongues. Who to? To God - “and prophesied” - you see God was speaking to them, so there was a conversation with God going on. God understood their speaking in tongues.
 
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… the “Marian” people and the “Charismatic” people in a parish tend to stay away from each other. Randall says that Mary is the Spouse of the Holy Spirit, and they have never got a divorce. He is convinced that bringing the two devotional emphases together will produce more power in the Church than has been seen since Pentecost.
Some good observations here. I’ve seen that the Charismatics tend to be older parishioners who formed their views back in the 70’s and 80’s. The Marians are younger and are more influenced by John Paul II’s exhortations for a Marian renewal. The minority older Marians have no lack of charismatic gifts, but react negatively to the early indiscipline in the CCR, such as Pentecostal syncretism and enthusiasm for spurious revelations and aparitions. I think the one will eventually give way to the other, and John Paul II’s teachings will finally hit home – Totus Tuus (Montfortean and Kolbean consecrations), Theology of the Body, and Divine Mercy.
 
Oh and by the way Satan and all the demons in hell call Jesus Lord also so I don’t care who you say is outpouring all of this protestant evangelical garbage, Catholic Church was here long before yours and will be here long after it’s gone, the one true church does not need any byproduct of a protestant denomination to pollute it.
The phrase “Jesus is Lord” actually means something. Satan
knows very well who Jesus is (Acts 19:15) but certainly does not call him Lord. If Jesus were
Satan’s Lord he would respond “Yes, Master.” His attitude is “I will not serve” (or non serviam, for Latin lovers). That is not the response of a subject to his Lord. In fact, Satan had the nerve to say to Jesus (Matthew 4:9) “All this I will give you, if you will bow down and worship me." No, Satan did not call Jesus Lord! He thinks it better to reign in hell than serve in
heaven.

And, FYI, I was Catholic before you were born-- and still am–a charismatic Catholic!

As God poured out his Spirit on both the Jews and the Gentiles (Acts 10:45) and the Gentiles were recognized as believers because they spoke in tongues, I think he has poured out his Spirit on some people other than Catholics and that may be the way we will all become one eventually.

Come, Holy Spirit, Spouse of the Blessed Virgin!
 
Not all people are open to the baptism of the Holy Spirit nor are they open to the gifts of the Spirit.
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  In my relationship with Him I have learned that the Lord respects us and is quite a gentelman. He came and made of Himself of no reputation He is meek and lowly. He made of Himself a servant and even taught us to be that way. He does not force Himself on us in any way and will always give us the choice to follow Him or go another way.
I am glad that He saved me forgiveing me of all of my sins and a year later baptised me in the Holy Spirit and that I can speak in tongues as the Spirit gives the utterance.
I find that I am unthworthy of the least of His graces. Yet he has pored them out on me.
 
St. Paul wrote that anyone who receives the Body of Christ “unworthily” is guilty of the Blood of Christ.

Some charismatics seem to bestow greater “devotion” to those meetings than the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. That is a DIVISION. This is where we will see a separation between the flock.

Which one will YOU choose…the Mass or the charismatic movement?
 
St. Paul wrote that anyone who receives the Body of Christ “unworthily” is guilty of the Blood of Christ.

Some charismatics seem to bestow greater “devotion” to those meetings than the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. That is a DIVISION. This is where we will see a separation between the flock.

Which one will YOU choose…the Mass or the charismatic movement?
You may have experienced this, but none of the charismatic Catholics I have known has EVER subordinated the Mass to the charismatic prayer group.
 
Johnstownjohn You are right about what st paul has said,
but you misunderstand what I say. I do not deserve the favors that God has shown to me .Yet because of His son He has made me worthy. I am His son, His bride but it is through no merit of my own.
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   I do not need to make a choice between the Mass or the charismatic movement because my salvation is not based on this but is based on faith in Christ Jesus and his blood alone. 

  If I never went to another charismatic meeting or to Mass ever again It would not change the work of grace that God has done in me when He saved me. I would still go to be with Him when I die.
 
Johnstownjohn You are right about what st paul has said,
but you misunderstand what I say. I do not deserve the favors that God has shown to me .Yet because of His son He has made me worthy. I am His son, His bride but it is through no merit of my own.

I do not need to make a choice between the Mass or the charismatic movement because my salvation is not based on this but is based on faith in Christ Jesus and his blood alone.

If I never went to another charismatic meeting or to Mass ever again It would not change the work of grace that God has done in me when He saved me. I would still go to be with Him when I die.
Are you sure you mean this? That ignoring a precept of the Church (attending Mass, which is an act of justice under the Virtue of Religion) is not necessary? Is your faith in Christ Jesus and His Blood not on His terms in His Church according to His truth?

Faith in Christ’s Blood IS faith in the Mass. As a Catholic, you surely did not mean to imply the OSAS that comes through in your post. I have never heard a Catholic charismatic state anything like you have stated here.
 
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