Ask about Catholic Charismatic Renewal

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Ok fine, if it is sound and approved by the magisterium then go and find me these records because I have been to the vaticans official website and researched and looked for anything that would validate or correspond with what you guys contend and have found absolutely anything. You promote this as fact and being observed in church law and it isn’t. So now who again is against the magisterium, me or you, I would tend to think that common rationale suggests the latter.
steve99 said:
You say it is doctrinally unsound, but the evidence I (and others) have given is that it is approved by the magisterium.

If it is so doctrinally unsound why has it not been condemned by Popes & the CDF? Why is ICCRS given an office in the Vatican? Why does it have statues that have been approved by the Vatican?

If is heretical where is the condemnation of the heresy?

You seem to be pitting yourself against the magisterium here.
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fierysword1920 said:
Ok fine, if it is sound and approved by the magisterium then go and find me these records because I have been to the vaticans official website and researched and looked for anything that would validate or correspond with what you guys contend and have found absolutely anything. You promote this as fact and being observed in church law and it isn’t. So now who again is against the magisterium, me or you, I would tend to think that common rationale suggests the latter.
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Just read posts #263 & #264
 
I did and these people are no more in control than or authority than you or I. They are nobody at all in making law or effecting a change in law or doctrine. These people are unimportant in this regard. How about if I go in league with the devil and I create some laity council of Catholics and take one part truth and four parts lies and deciet and then start a movement that has never been real to begin with and pass it on as sound Catholic truth and as a neccessary means for salvation. That is all you have done. These people you put so much faith in are not the people that should have your allegiance. Pope Benedict will strike down your movement. He is very Holy and hardline when it comes to these matters and Satan will not overcome him. He will be a great Champion for God, truth and Justice. You have but a little time left to spread these lies.
steve99 said:
Just read posts #263 & #264
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fierysword1920 said:
I did and these people are no more in control than or authority than you or I. They are nobody at all in making law or effecting a change in law or doctrine. These people are unimportant in this regard. How about if I go in league with the devil and I create some laity council of Catholics and take one part truth and four parts lies and deciet and then start a movement that has never been real to begin with and pass it on as sound Catholic truth and as a neccessary means for salvation. That is all you have done. These people you put so much faith in are not the people that should have your allegiance. Pope Benedict will strike down your movement. He is very Holy and hardline when it comes to these matters and Satan will not overcome him. He will be a great Champion for God, truth and Justice. You have but a little time left to spread these lies.
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What people are no more in controlor authority than you or I

Are you talking about Pope Paul VI, or John Paul II or Pope Benedict or the Pontifical Council for the Laity?

You want quotes from the Vatican web site?

Lets start with the statutes of ICCRS
Code: 
     OFFICIAL NAME
     **INTERNATIONAL CATHOLIC CHARISMATIC RENEWAL SERVICES**
         ACRONYM
     **ICCRS**
         ESTABLISHED
     1978
         HISTORY
     The origins of ICCRS go back to 1970 when an International   Communications Office (ICO) began operating at Ann Arbor (Michigan) at Notre   Dame University, to keep contact between the various prayer groups that had   emerged from the personal experience of Pentecost, known as the "new   outpouring of the Spirit" or the "baptism of the Spirit", and   to provide information on the nascent movement. In 1973, ICO began the annual   publication of the Directory of Catholic Prayer Groups, giving the addresses   of all the existing prayer groups. In 1977 a consultation was held for 110   people representing 60 countries, at which it was decided to set up an   international Committee to supervise the work performed by the Office. In   1978, ICCRO (International Catholic Charismatic Renewal Offices) was founded,   headquartered in Brussels, Belgium.   There were nine members from Europe, Asia,   North America, South America   and Oceania, together with the Archbishop of   Malines-Brussels, Cardinal Leo Suenens, as the spiritual assistant. In order   to develop relations with the Holy See, in 1980 ICCRO moved its offices to Rome.   Having adopted its present name, on 14    September 1993 International Catholic Charismatic Renewal   Services was recognised by the Pontifical Council for the Laity as an   association of Pontifical Right, for the purpose of promoting Catholic   Charismatic Renewal which is present in 220 countries.
         IDENTITY
     ICCRS is the main coordination and service structure of Catholic   Charismatic Renewal. It performs its mission of promoting Renewal in the   world by nurturing in its members their commitment to be faithful to the   Catholic Church at both personal and group level; acting as a centre of   unity, communication and collaboration between  the prayer groups and   the communities present in every continent; financially supporting the   Renewal centres in the developing countries and local initiatives and   national and international youth meetings; and organising world congresses   and conferences for Renewal leaders.
contd.
 
contd.

ORGANISATION
ICCRS is governed by the Council, which comprises the President, a Vice President and 12 Councillors representing different areas of Catholic Charismatic Renewal and the geographic areas in which it has been established. In the performance of its functions, the Council is accompanied by a bishop as its spiritual assistant (Episcopal Adviser). The decisions adopted by the Council are implemented by an Office, headed by an Executive Director, responsible for administration, working under the supervision of the President, and according to the instructions issued.
MEMBERSHIP
ICCRS is in contact with charismatic groups in 165 countries as follows: Africa (44), Asia (27), Europe (42), North America (27), Oceania (11) and South America (14).
PUBLICATIONS
*ICCRS Newsletter *published bimonthly in Italian, French, English, Portuguese, Spanish and German.
WEB SITE
iccrs.org
HEADQUARTERS
International Catholic Charismatic Renewal Services
Palazzo della Cancelleria
00120 Città del Vaticano
Tel. +39]06.69887538 / 06.69887565 - Fax 06.69887530
Email: info@iccrs.org
LOGO

vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/laity/documents/rc_pc_laity_doc_20051114_associazioni_en.html#INTERNATIONAL%20CATHOLIC%20CHARISMATIC%20RENEWAL%20SERVICES
 
ADDRESS OF HIS HOLINESS JOHN PAUL II
TO THE LEADERS OF THE CATHOLIC CHARISMATIC RENEWAL
Castel Gandolfo*
Saturday, 18 September 1993 *

*Dear Friends in Christ, *
I am pleased to welcome you, leaders of the Catholic Charismatic Renewal, together with Bishop Paul Cordes whom I appointed some years ago to accompany the Renewal and to support and encourage its Catholic identity. I warmly greet the Bishops and many priests who are a part of your gathering.
You have just completed a spiritual retreat in Assisi, the city of Saint Francis and also of Saint Clare, the eighth centenary of whose birth falls this year. These great figures of holiness in the Church made their own the words of Saint Paul: “It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me” (Gal. 2: 20). Is this not the ideal and the goal which permeates the Charismatic Renewal? Is it not the programme of life which your prayer groups and communities have set themselves under the guidance of the Holy Spirit? May the example and intercession of the great Saints of Assisi strengthen your resolve to grow continually in evangelical love and service “to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ” (Eph. 4: 13). …………………………………
The Church today has great need of your prayer and commitment. Together let us praise our Heavenly Father for all that he has done in your lives, and let us implore his grace so that your apostolates will bear abundant fruit. As a token of my encouragement, I gladly impart my Apostolic Blessing.

© Copyright 1993 - Libreria Editrice Vaticana

vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/speeches/1993/september/documents/hf_jp-ii_spe_19930918_rinnovam-carismatico_en.html
 
***ADDRESS OF HIS HOLINESS JOHN PAUL II
TO THE COUNCIL OF THE “INTERNATIONAL CATHOLIC CHARISMATIC RENEWAL OFFICE”

***Saturday, 14 March1992

Dear Brothers and Sisters in Christ,
  1. In the joy and peace of the Holy Spirit I welcome the Council of the “International Catholic Charismatic Renewal Office”. As you celebrate the twenty–fifth anniversary of the beginning of the Catholic Charismatic Renewal, I willingly join you in giving praise to God for the many fruits which it has borne in the life of the Church. The emergence of the Renewal following the Second Vatican Council was a particular gift of the Holy Spirit to the Church. It was a sign of a desire on the part of many Catholics to live more fully their Baptismal dignity and vocation as adopted sons and daughters of the Father, to know the redeeming power of Christ our Saviour in a more intense experience of individual and group prayer, and to follow the teaching of the Scriptures by reading them in the light of the same Spirit who inspired their writing. Certainly one of the most important results of this spiritual reawakening has been that increased thirst for holiness which is seen in the lives of individuals and in the whole Church.
    At the end of this Second Millennium, the Church needs more than ever to turn in confidence and hope to the Holy Spirit, who unceasingly draws believers into the Trinitarian communion of love, builds up their visible unity in the one Body of Christ, and sends them forth on mission in obedience to the mandate entrusted to the Apostles by the Risen Christ. We must be convinced that a deepened awareness of the Person and work of the Holy Spirit responds to the needs of our times, for the Spirit “is at the centre of the Christian faith and is the source and dynamic power of the Church’s renewal” (John Paul II, , 2Dominum et Vivificantem). Indeed, the Holy Spirit is “the principal agent of the Church’s mission” (John Paul II, Redemptoris Missio, 21), sustaining and guiding her efforts to bring the graces of Pentecost to all people.
  2. Since the gifts of the Holy Spirit are given for the building up of the Church, you, as leaders of the Charismatic Renewal, are challenged to seek increasingly effective ways in which the various groups you represent can manifest their complete communion of mind and heart with the Apostolic See and the College of Bishops, and cooperate ever more fruitfully in the Church’s mission in the world. On the international level, your Office’s close links with its Episcopal Advisor, Bishop Paul Cordes, and the coordination of Ecclesial Movements and Associations provided by the Pontifical Council for the Laity, are important means for fostering such cooperation, which is so essential for the prudent stewardship of the Spirit’s manifold gifts. Only in this way will the Renewal truly serve its ecclesial purpose, helping to ensure that “the whole body, nourished and knit together through its joints and ligaments, grows with a growth that is from God” (Col. 2:19).
contd.
 
contd.
  1. At this moment in the Church’s history, the Charismatic Renewal can play a significant role in promoting the much–needed defence of Christian life in societies where secularism and materialism have weakened many people’s ability to respond to the Spirit and to discern God’s loving call. Your contribution to the re–evangelization of society will be made in the first place by personal witness to the indwelling Spirit and by showing forth his presence through works of holiness and solidarity. “The witness of a Christian life is the first and irreplaceable form of mission” (John Paul II, 42Redemptoris Missio,). What more effective means can there be for drawing those who have lost their spiritual bearings towards that truth which alone can calm the restlessness of the human heart than the living example of fervent Christian believers? To bear witness is to be a powerful leaven among people who perhaps do not fully recognize the value of the salvation that only Jesus Christ can offer.
  2. The Charismatic Renewal can also help foster the growth of a solid spiritual life based on the Holy Spirit’s power at work in the Church, in the richness of her Tradition, and particularly in her celebration of the Sacraments. Frequent reception of the Eucharist and regular use of the Sacrament of Penance are essential for a genuine life in the Holy Spirit, for these are the means which Christ himself has given us to restore and sustain the Spirit’s gift of grace. Since the ways of the Spirit always lead to Christ and his Church, and since it is the Spirit himself who guides those he has established as Bishops to care for the Church of God (Cf. Acts 20:28), there can be no conflict between fidelity to the Spirit and fidelity to the Church and her Magisterium. Whatever shape the Charismatic Renewal takes – in prayer groups, in covenant communities, in communities of life and service – the sign of its spiritual fruitfulness will always be a strengthening of communion with the universal Church and the local Churches.
    Your role as a coordinating organization is to help all these various facets of the Renewal to work together in union with the Pastors of the Church for the good of the whole Body. At the same time, the deepening of your Catholic identity by drawing from the spiritual wealth of the Catholic Tradition is an irreplaceable part of your contribution to genuine ecumenical dialogue which, fostered by the grace of the Holy Spirit, must lead to the perfection of “fellowship in unity: in the confession of one faith, in the common celebration of divine worship and in the fraternal harmony of the family of God” (Unitatis Redintegratio, 2).
  3. Dear friends: at the beginning of this Lenten season, I pray that your work will contribute to the growth of the Church, in fidelity to the Lord’s will and to the mission which she has received. I commend all of you to the loving intercession of Mary, Mother of the Church, who “through the same faith which made her blessed…, is present in the Church’s mission, present in the Church’s work of introducing into the world the Kingdom of her Son” (John Paul II, , 28Redemptoris Mater). May her prayers accompany those who strive to extend the Kingdom of Christ in obedience to the prompting of his Holy Spirit. To all of you I cordially impart my Apostolic Blessing.
© Copyright 1992 - Libreria Editrice Vaticana

vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/speeches/1992/march/documents/hf_jp-ii_spe_19920314_charismatic-renewal_en.html
 
MESSAGE OF THE HOLY FATHER JOHN PAUL II
TO THE CATHOLIC CHARISMATIC RENEWAL

Dear Brothers and Sisters!
  1. With great joy I send you my greetings for the World Meeting of the Catholic Charismatic Renewal, which is taking place in Rimini. For several years now *Renewal in the Holy Spirit *has held its “national convocation” there at the beginning of May. On the occasion of the Jubilee Year, this event has acquired a particular importance because of the presence of many representatives of charismatic groups and communities from other countries of the world. Therefore, your meeting is rightly being held with the support of the *International Catholic Charismatic Renewal Services, *an organization whose role is to coordinate and foster a sharing of experiences and reflections among Catholic charismatic communities throughout the world. By doing so, the riches present in each community benefit everyone, and all communities can easily perceive the bond of communion that joins them to one another and to the whole Church. I cordially greet Mr Allan Panozza, President of the *International Catholic Charismatic Renewal Services, *and Mr Salvatore Martinez, National Coordinator of *Renewal in the Holy Spirit, *along with all the members of the National Service Committee.
  2. This international meeting in Rimini is a stage on your Jubilee pilgrimage. In celebrating the 2,000th anniversary of the Incarnation, we are all called to turn our gaze to Christ, “the light of all nations”. As we look to him, wonder and gratitude are renewed in us: the Son of God became man, died for our salvation, is risen and living.
    *Christ is alive! He is the Lord! *This is the certainty of our faith. As we proclaim it humbly and firmly, we are aware of the fact that this certainty does not come from us. If we have been able to know Christ, it is because he has made himself known to us by giving us his Spirit: "No one can say “Jesus is Lord’ except by the Holy Spirit” (1 Cor 12: 3).
    In making himself known, Christ has not left us alone. The new People of God is born in the Spirit because “he has … willed to make men holy and save them, not as individuals without any bond or link between them, but rather to make them into a people who might acknowledge him and serve him in holiness” (Dogmatic Constitution *Lumen gentium, *n. 9). Every authentic ecclesial community is a portion of this people who has walked the ways of the world for 2,000 years.
    Every baptized person, although a member of a specific community, is therefore open to receiving the riches of the universal Church, which is the Church of all ages.
  3. The Church looks with gratitude at the flourishing of lively communities in which the faith is passed on and lived. In this flourishing she recognizes the work of the Holy Spirit, who has always provided the Church with the necessary graces to face new and sometimes difficult situations.
    Many of you will remember the great meeting that took place in Rome on 30 May 1998, the Vigil of Pentecost. I said at the time: "In our world, often dominated by a secularized culture which encourages and promotes models of life without God, the faith of many is sorely tested, and is frequently stifled and dies. Thus we see an urgent need for powerful proclamation and solid, in-depth Christian formation. There is so much need today for mature Christian personalities, conscious of their baptismal identity, of their vocation and mission in the Church and in the world!
contd.
 
contd

There is great need for living Christian communities! And here are the movements and the new ecclesial communities: they are the response, given by the Holy Spirit, to this critical challenge at the end of the millennium" (n. 7; L’Osservatore Romano English edition, 3 June 1998, p. 2).
On that occasion I also observed that a new period for movements was unfolding, “that of ecclesial maturity” (ibid., n. 6). Today charismatic communities are also called to take this step, and I am sure that the *International Catholic Charismatic Renewal Services *will play an important role in developing this ecclesial awareness in the various Catholic charismatic communities throughout the world. What I said then in St Peter’s Square, I repeat to all of you meeting in Rimini: "The Church expects from you the “mature’ fruits of communion and commitment” (ibid.).
4. Within your communities, in different circumstances, a journey that leads to an ever greater knowledge and love of Christ has begun for each of you. *Do not interrupt the journey you have begun! *Have trust: Christ will complete the work that he himself has started. “Desire the higher gifts!” (1 Cor 12: 31). Always seek Christ: seek him in meditation on the Word of God, seek him in the sacraments, seek him in prayer, seek him in the witness of your brothers and sisters. Be grateful to the priests who pastor your communities: through their ministry it is the Church who guides you and helps you as a mother and teacher. Joyfully welcome the occasions that are offered to you to deepen your Christian formation. Serve Christ in those close to you, serve him in the poor, serve him in the needs and necessities of the Church. Let yourselves be truly guided by the Spirit! Love the Church: one, holy, catholic and apostolic!
I am particularly pleased to know that *representatives of other Churches and Ecclesial Communities are also taking part in your assembly, and I would like to greet them cordially.
United in common praise, you have accepted the invitation I addressed in the Bull of Indiction of the Great Jubilee: “From the different Churches and Ecclesial Communities throughout the world, let us all hasten to the feast now being prepared; let us bring with us everything that already unites us and, by fixing our gaze on Christ alone, let us grow in the unity which is the fruit of the Spirit” (Incarnationis mysterium, *n. 4).
As I pray with you to the Virgin Mary, so that each one may welcome the gift of the Spirit to be a witness to Christ where he lives, I willingly impart my affectionate Blessing to you, dear brothers and sisters, and to your families.
From the Vatican, 24 April 2000.

© Copyright 2000 - Libreria Editrice Vaticana

vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/speeches/2000/apr-jun/documents/hf_jp-ii_spe_20000424_catholic-charismatic-renewal_en.html
 
***ADDRESS OF THE HOLY FATHER JOHN PAUL II
TO THE PARTICIPANTS OF THE SIXTH INTERNATIONAL ASSEMBLY
OF THE CHARISMATIC RENEWAL ***
Friday, 15 May 1987

*Dear Brothers and Sisters, *
  1. In the peace and joy of the Holy Spirit I welcome all of you who have come to Rome for the Sixth International Leaders Charismatic Renewal. I am very happy to meet you today and, as I begin, I wish to assure you that your love for Christ and your openness to the Spirit of Truth are a most valuable witness in the Church’s mission in the world.
    You are prayerfully considering, during these days, the words of the Prophet Isaiah which Jesus made his own at the very beginning of his public ministry: “The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he has anointed me to preach good news to the poor” (Cfr. Luc. 4, 18).
    These words, when read by Jesus in the synagogue at Nazareth, had a profound effect on those listening. As he finished the reading, rolled up the scroll and sat down, “the eyes of all in the synagogue were fixed on him” (Ibid. 4, 20). Even in our own time, these prophetic words strike to the heart. They draw us upward in faith to the person of Christ and deepen our desire "to fix our eyes on him", the Redeemer of the world, the perfect fulfilment of all prophecy. They stir up our longing to enter ever more completely into the mystery of Christ: to know him better and to love him with greater fidelity.
  2. “The Spirit of the Lord is upon me”. While Jesus applied these words to himself that day in Nazareth, they could likewise be applied, at Pentecost and thereafter, to the Body of Christ, the Church. “When the work which the Father had given the Son to do on earth (Cfr. Io. 17,4) was accomplished, the Holy Spirit was sent on the day of Pentecost in order that he might forever sanctify the Church, and thus all believers would have access to the Father through Christ in the one Spirit” (Lumen Gentium, 4). As a result, the history of the Church is at the same time the history of two thousand years of the action of the Holy Spirit, “the Lord, the Giver of Life” who renews God’s people in grace and freedom, and is “the Spirit of Truth” bringing holiness and joy to people of every race and tongue and nation.
    This year marks the twentieth anniversary of the Charismatic Renewal in the Catholic Church. The vigour and fruitfulness of the Renewal certainly attest to the powerful presence of the Holy Spirit at work in the Church in these years after the Second Vatican Council. Of course, the Spirit has guided the Church in every age, producing a great variety of gifts among the faithful. Because of the Spirit, the Church preserves a continual youthful vitality. And the Charismatic Renewal is an eloquent manifestation of this vitality today, a bold statement of what “the Spirit is saying to the churches” (Apoc. 2,7) as we approach the close of the Second Millennium.
    For this reason, it is essential that you seek always to deepen your communion with the whole Church: with her Pastors and teachers, with her doctrine and discipline, with her sacramental life, with the entire people of God.
    In this same regard, I have asked Bishop Paul Cordes to assist as Episcopal Adviser to the International Catholic Charismatic Renewal Office. I am sure that he will help you in fostering a dynamism that is always well-balanced and in strengthening your bonds of fidelity to the Apostolic See.
contd.
 
contd.
  1. “The Spirit of the Lord is upon me”. In addition to the meaning of these words for Jesus and for the Church throughout the world they also remind us of our own personal identity as men and women who have been baptized into Christ. For the Spirit of the Lord is upon us, each one of us, who have been born anew in the saving waters of Baptism. And the Spirit prompts us to go forth in faith “to preach good news to the poor”: the poor in material things, the poor in spiritual gifts, the poor in mind and body. The Holy Spirit gives us the courage and strength to go out to all who, in a particular way, are “the little ones” of the world. Each of us responds in a unique manner, according to our own special talents and gifts. But we shall be able to make a generous and authentic response only if we are firmly grounded in a regular habit of prayer.
    Accordingly, I recommend that you meditate on these words of Isaiah frequently, pondering the great mystery of how the Spirit of God over shadows your life in a manner not altogether dissimilar to the experience of the Virgin Mary. As the truth penetrates your heart and soul, it fills your whole being with gratitude and praise and a sense of awe at God’s great love.
    “The Spirit of the Lord is upon me”. These words stand at the foundation of our prayer, our service to others, our life of faith. They direct us towards the invisible God who *dwells within us as in a *Temple, to the one whom we profess in the Creed to be “the Lord, the Giver of Life”, the one who “has spoken through the Prophets”. In prayerful reflection on these words, we meet and adore the Holy Spirit.
    In prayer, too, we come to see the stark reality of our own poverty, the absolute need we have for a Saviour. We discover in a more profound degree the many ways in which we ourselves are poor and needy, and thus we begin to feel an increasing solidarity with all the poor. In the end, - we realize more fully than ever before that Good News for the poor is Good News for ourselves as well.
  2. Dear Friends in Christ, you have come to Rome in the month of May, Our Lady’s month. You come just prior to the Feast of Pentecost and the beginning of the Marian Year. And in considering the theme, “Good News to the Poor”, you are considering a theme dear to the Mother of our Redeemer. As I stated in my recent Encyclical on the Blessed Virgin Mary in the Life of the Church, “Mary truly proclaims the coming of the ‘Messiah of the poor’ (Cfr. Is. 11,4; 61, 1). Drawing from Mary’s heart, from the depth of her faith expressed in the words of the Magnificat, the Church renews ever more effectively in herself the awareness that the truth about God who saves, the truth about God who is the source of every gift, cannot be separated from the manifestation of his love of preference for the poor and humble, that love which, celebrated in the Magnificat, is later expressed in the words and works of Jesus” (Ioannis Pauli PP. II Redemptoris Mater, 37).
    May you be inspired by the heroic example of love given by the Virgin Mother of our Redeemer, and may you entrust yourselves with confidence to her intercession and maternal care. In the love of her Son, our Saviour Christ the Lord, I impart to all of you my Apostolic Blessing.
    © Copyright 1987 - Libreria Editrice Vaticana
    vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/speeches/1987/may/documents/hf_jp-ii_spe_19870515_assemblea-carismatici_en.html
Your see fierysword there is plenty on the Vatican web site if you took the trouble to look for it.
 
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