Ask about Islam round 3!

[jakasaki]

Quote:
Originally Posted by jakasaki
Hi Planten, thanks!.. but I don’t understand what you mean.

Please explain…

If the chapter and verse# I provided are not prayer times, what are they?

Fajr is a morning prayer is it not?

Dhuhr is a noon prayer is it not?

Isha is a late night prayer is it not?

Quote from Planten:
That is correct. The times for privacy had to be with reference to some known tmings. So, Fajr and Dhuhr are mentioned

.

jakasaki, these are not the three prayer times. There is no secrecy during prayer. These three are the rest and privacy times.

Planten - perhaps I’m having a slow day today I still don’t understand your statement.

The vese states the word Fajr and prayer, (see below) - so I am having a hard time understanding how it cannot be “prayer” time.

24 - 58:
O you who believe! Let your legal slaves and slave-girls, and those among you who have not come to the age of puberty ask your permission (before they come to your presence) on three occasions; before Fajr (morning) prayer, and while you put off your clothes for the noonday (rest), and after the ‘Isha’ (late-night) prayer. (These) three times are of privacy for you, other than these times there is no sin on you or on them to move about, attending (helping) you each other. Thus Allah makes clear the Ayat (the Verses of this Quran, showing proofs for the legal aspects of permission for visits, etc.) to you. And Allah is All-Knowing, All-Wise.

searchquran.net/quran.php?q=24

 

[sedonaman]

defenseless ?? huh

I forgot. Their very existence constituted some kind of “threat”.

Macca was his birthplace.

So? We all know he was booted out by the citizens of Mecca and invited to Medina. That’s why Islam belongs only in Medina [if it belongs anywhere], and no where else. For being “invited” to leave Mecca, he had to extract his revenge somehow.

 

[jakasaki]

OK - I’ll restart my question to be more clear…

Chapter 24 -# 58:
O you who believe! Let your legal slaves and slave-girls, and those among you who have not come to the age of puberty ask your permission (before they come to your presence) on three occasions; before **Fajr **(morning) prayer, and while you put off your clothes for the **noonday **(rest), and after the **‘Isha’ **(late-night) prayer. (These) three times are of privacy for you, other than these times there is no sin on you or on them to move about, attending (helping) you each other. Thus Allah makes clear the Ayat (the Verses of this Quran, showing proofs for the legal aspects of permission for visits, etc.) to you. And Allah is All-Knowing, All-Wise.

The above verse states 3 prayer times in one day. Am I correct so far?

Fajr is a morning prayer… Dhuhr is a noon prayer… and Isha is a late night prayer. Am I correct so far?

Now, as Planten mentioned that these verse speaks about privacy and rest.

**before **Fajr (morning) prayer, and while you put off your clothes for the noonday (rest), and **after **the ‘Isha’ (late-night) prayer.

So, **rest **before your morning prayer…, while you take your clothes off for noon prayer and after your night prayer. Am I correct so far?

No, my original question was questioning 3 prayers stated in the koran and NOT 5 as muslims perform each day.

Asr… afternoon prayer and **Maghrib **performed at sunset.

Why aren’t these two mentioned in the verse above???

And please don’t tell me about resting/relaxing/private time before and after.

Are you not suppose to rest/relax/private time for the two missing prayer times? I’ll repeat… why aren’t these two mentioned in the verse?

Phew!!!

Thanks!

 

[planten]

Are you referring once again to the OT? I believe this has been discussed ad nauseum. I know that I, myself, have discussed with you the fact that Jesus was not human in the OT because then you always come back with, ‘But don’t you think Jesus is God, was He not there then’ or some such similar statement. Please refer to those threads as I really don’t wish to go through it again.

If you are not referring to the OT, please give me the verse where Jesus either killed anyone or ordered anyone to be killed.

It appears that according to Catholics belief Jesus is God and was God. He taught all the killing to Moses and Joshua. What you can say about that?

 

[Reuben_J]

Funny thing. I started some years ago with a position of respect and admiration for Islam. I was interested to learn its wisdom and there were a couple of Muslim posters who actually could provide that source then. I could not imagine that I would be uttering the words I said today about Mohammad and the Quran. I admired Muslims for their piety and honesty, so that was what I thought.

But after having listened to MW, planten, paarsurrey and hamba, my mind has changed almost to an about turn. Such was the dimension of their contribution here.

 

[dzheremi]

A Muslim martyr confirms the violence of his or her faith by killing kuffar as a matter of religious obligation or blowing up a bus to liberate his country.

A Christian martyr confirms the peace of her faith by meeting her murderer’s bullets with the words “I forgive”.

My point is not “we are so much better than you bloodthirsty Muslims”. Truly, Christianity (especially Western Christianity, I am sad to admit) has had plenty of blood on its hands. But the idea that the way that we should deal with religious difference or religious offense by resorting to violence…well, a nice way to put it would be to say that it shows a great poverty of honor and common feeling among Muslims. The vast majority of Christianity has not only rejected that intellectually, but has also done so practically, beginning quite a long time ago, because it is actually antithetical to the faith itself.

Muslims may answer that the vast majority of Muslims also reject violence in dealing with other religions, but this is immaterial. We are not talking about a numbers game, we are talking about an ideology. The ideology of Islam is political as well as spiritual (or perhaps it is better to say that it makes the two into one), and this is why it cannot develop from where it is now into something resembling Christianity or Judaism in its stance towards other religions. To suggest that kuffar are “equal people” to Muslims (hence deserving of all the same rights, with absolutely NO strings attached in any way) is pure lunacy, isn’t it? The Qur’an has told you that you are the best of all nations that has ever been, and you believe it. Next to you, we are less than nothing, and your laws, and your scriptures, and your brave “shahiids” and “mujahidiin” treat us accordingly.

And then you wonder why we “insult” you so…yaaaaa Allaah, I do not know how I can make this situation any more clear to any astounded or offended Muslims. The Copts, the Assyrians, the Ethiopian and Eritrean Orthodox Tewaheedo, the native Sudanese Christians, the Armenians, the Arab Orthodox among the Greeks, the Christian Nigerians, and others have all suffered at the hands of the Muslims, and they continue to suffer this discrimination today. It is systematic, premeditated, and unchanging, because it comes from the Qur’an, which is praised so highly among Muslims for the fact that it is supposedly the same today as it was when it was first written down.

So we cannot and do not and will not depend on any friendly overtures from Muslims, enticing us to a “common word” or anything like that. Because you believe in your religion, and because we believe in ours, we will always be offending each other. The one thing we cannot do, then, is to resort to violence to make the other side renounce its position.

This is in direct conflict, of course, with the Qur’an and its incitement to violence against us (don’t bother with “no compulsion” or any other similar verse; we know that the Qur’an is much more than these key verses that are brought up whenever violence against non-Muslims is talked about).

So go ahead…be offended. Tell me about how offended you are. Fine. But don’t pretend that we are actually having a conversation while you sidestep what REALLY MATTERS to us just because you want to preserve the “purity” of our religion, its prophet, and its book. We don’t care about any of those things, because they are exactly what strip us of our rights, threaten us, and kill our fellow Christians (not to mention many, many Muslims) all around the world. Be able to honestly critique yourselves or stop inviting us to discuss anything with you. Half-hearted attempts at propaganda are not welcome.

 

[jakasaki]

Bump!

For our muslim members… Can you please reply to this…

Thank you!

OK - I’ll restart my question to be more clear…

Chapter 24 -# 58:
O you who believe! Let your legal slaves and slave-girls, and those among you who have not come to the age of puberty ask your permission (before they come to your presence) on three occasions; before **Fajr **(morning) prayer, and while you put off your clothes for the **noonday **(rest), and after the **‘Isha’ **(late-night) prayer. (These) three times are of privacy for you, other than these times there is no sin on you or on them to move about, attending (helping) you each other. Thus Allah makes clear the Ayat (the Verses of this Quran, showing proofs for the legal aspects of permission for visits, etc.) to you. And Allah is All-Knowing, All-Wise.

The above verse states 3 prayer times in one day. Am I correct so far?

Fajr is a morning prayer… Dhuhr is a noon prayer… and Isha is a late night prayer. Am I correct so far?

Now, as Planten mentioned that these verse speaks about privacy and rest.

**before **Fajr (morning) prayer, and while you put off your clothes for the noonday (rest), and **after **the ‘Isha’ (late-night) prayer.

So, **rest **before your morning prayer…, while you take your clothes off for noon prayer and after your night prayer. Am I correct so far?

No, my original question was questioning 3 prayers stated in the koran and NOT 5 as muslims perform each day.

Asr… afternoon prayer and **Maghrib **performed at sunset.

Why aren’t these two mentioned in the verse above???

And please don’t tell me about resting/relaxing/private time before and after.

Are you not suppose to rest/relax/private time for the two missing prayer times? I’ll repeat… why aren’t these two mentioned in the verse?

Phew!!!

Thanks!

 

[Muslim_Woman]

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

** In the name of Allah , the Most Gracious , Ever Merciful **

… Can you please reply to this…

!

We need to take permission each time entering one’s room. This strict condition is relaxed for minors . But God instructed them not to enter one’s room without permission specially at 3 times : before Fajr (morning) prayer, and while you put off your clothes for the noonday (rest), and after the Isha (late-night) prayer. (These) three times are of privacy for you…here is the full verse :

O you who believe! Let your legal slaves and slave-girls, and those among you who have not come to the age of puberty ask your permission (before they come to your presence) on three occasions; ***before Fajr (morning) prayer, and while you put off your clothes for the noonday (rest), and after the Isha (late-night) prayer.

(These) three times are of privacy for you,*** other than these times there is no sin on you or on them to move about, attending (helping) you each other. Thus Allah makes clear the Ayat (the Verses of this Quran, showing proofs for the legal aspects of permission for visits, etc.) to you. And Allah is All-Knowing, All-Wise.
( سورة النور , An-Noor, Chapter #24, Verse #58)

Why Muslims pray 5 times ? I am sure , I posted about this earlier ; ok here it goes again

Why do we pray 5 times per day? Why not six times for example? Is there a secret in the number?

In Surah 17 verse 78 we are told:

{Establish prayer from the time the sun declines until the darkening of the night, and [the recital of] the Qur’an at dawn. Lo! The [recitation of] dawn Qur’an is certainly witnessed.}

Then, from the time the sun declines, which is mid-day, until the darkening of the night, includes Zuhr (noon prayer), Asr (evening prayer), Maghrib (sunset prayer) and Ishaa’ (night prayer). These five prayers were revealed to Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) on the Israa’ and Miraj, and were performed by him in their specified number of raqaas. He also taught them to Muslims, who performed them in that sequence and form ever since.

There is no secret in the number of prayers. It is simply that they are related to the course of the day and relevant to the different states of nature (day and night) that are linked to the biological clock of any Muslim. Thus, the Muslim is in continues connection with God, through out the different phases of the day.

readingislam.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1123996015758&pagename=IslamOnline-English-AAbout_Islam/AskAboutIslamE/AskAboutIslamE

And Of Course God knows Best.

 

[sedonaman]

Perhaps " Muhammad wanted to keep his followers away from education because he knew that his newly established religion could not survive if criticism is allowed."

 

[jakasaki]

http://theislampath.com/smf/Smileys/default/salam.gif

** In the name of Allah , the Most Gracious , Ever Merciful **

Those who are not family members / housemaids i.e. don’t live inside the house , they need to take permission each time entering one’s room. This strict condition is relaxed for those who live all together. God instructed them not to enter one’s room without permission specially at 3 times : before Fajr (morning) prayer, and while you put off your clothes for the noonday (rest), and after the Isha (late-night) prayer. (These) three times are of privacy for you…here is the full verse :

O you who believe! Let your legal slaves and slave-girls, and those among you who have not come to the age of puberty ask your permission (before they come to your presence) on three occasions; ***before Fajr (morning) prayer, and while you put off your clothes for the noonday (rest), and after the Isha (late-night) prayer.

(These) three times are of privacy for you,*** other than these times there is no sin on you or on them to move about, attending (helping) you each other. Thus Allah makes clear the Ayat (the Verses of this Quran, showing proofs for the legal aspects of permission for visits, etc.) to you. And Allah is All-Knowing, All-Wise.
( سورة النور , An-Noor, Chapter #24, Verse #58)

Why Muslims pray 5 times ? I am sure , I posted about this earlier ; ok here it goes again

Why do we pray 5 times per day? Why not six times for example? Is there a secret in the number?

In Surah 17 verse 78 we are told:

{Establish prayer from the time the sun declines until the darkening of the night, and [the recital of] the Qur’an at dawn. Lo! The [recitation of] dawn Qur’an is certainly witnessed.}

Then, from the time the sun declines, which is mid-day, until the darkening of the night, includes Zuhr (noon prayer), Asr (evening prayer), Maghrib (sunset prayer) and Ishaa’ (night prayer). These five prayers were revealed to Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) on the Israa’ and Miraj, and were performed by him in their specified number of raqaas. He also taught them to Muslims, who performed them in that sequence and form ever since.

There is no secret in the number of prayers. It is simply that they are related to the course of the day and relevant to the different states of nature (day and night) that are linked to the biological clock of any Muslim. Thus, the Muslim is in continues connection with God, through out the different phases of the day.

readingislam.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1123996015758&pagename=IslamOnline-English-AAbout_Islam/AskAboutIslamE/AskAboutIslamE

And Of Course God knows Best.

Thank you - !!! The legal slaves and slave girls is another topic/issue which I was not questioning and only questioning the other two prayers which are not listed in 24:58…

Now, reading 17:78 which you provided, why aren’t these two praying times mentioned (Asr & Maghrib) in the chapter/verse 24:58below??

Aren’t these two verses contradicting one another. One of them states pray 3 times a day and the other states 5 times a day…??

Chapter 24 # 58:
O you who believe! Let your legal slaves and slave-girls, and those among you who have not come to the age of puberty ask your permission (before they come to your presence) on three occasions; before **Fajr **(morning) prayer, and while you put off your clothes for the noonday Dhuhr (rest), and after the **‘Isha’ **(late-night) prayer.

(These) three times are of privacy for you, other than these times there is no sin on you or on them to move about, attending (helping) you each other. Thus Allah makes clear the Ayat (the Verses of this Quran, showing proofs for the legal aspects of permission for visits, etc.) to you. And Allah is All-Knowing, All-Wise.

 

[Muslim_Woman]

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

** In the name of Allah , the Most Gracious , Ever Merciful **

… One of them states pray 3 times a day and the other states 5 times a day…??

The Five Daily Prayers: Any Mention in the Qur’an?

Q. Please let me know if the Qur’an instructs us to offer prayer five times a day, and where? A cousin of mine says that the Qur’an instructs us to offer prayers only three times a day.

Muzammil Siddiqi :In the Qur’an, Allah, Most High, has given us some specific times of prayers, but He did not mention the number. It is not said anywhere in the Qur’an that one must pray five times or three times. The Qur’an mentions that the prayer is prescribed for the believers at specific times (An-Nisa’: 103).

In Surat Al-Isra’ Allah says, "Establish regular prayers at the sun’s decline till the darkness of the night, and (the recital of) the Qur’an at dawn. Lo! (the recital of) the Qur’an at dawn is ever witnessed. And some part of the night awake for it, a largess for thee. It may be that thy Lord will raise thee to a praised estate.” (Al-Isra’: 78-79)

The time of “the sun’s decline” (duluk ash-shams) is interpreted as Zhuhr, Asr and Maghrib. The "darkness of the night" (ghasaq al-layl) is interpreted as Isha’ prayer. And "the recital of the Qur’an at dawn " (Qur’an al-fajr) is Fajr prayer.

In Surat Taha Allah says, “Therefore be patient with what they say, and celebrate (constantly) the praises of thy Lord, before the rising of the sun, and before its setting; yea, celebrate them for part of the hours of the night, and at the sides of the day: that thou mayest have (spiritual) joy.” (Taha: 130)

In Surat Ar-Rum Allah says, "So (give) glory to Allah, when you reach eventide and when you rise in the morning. Yea, to Him be praise, in the heavens and on earth; and in the late afternoon and when the day begins to decline.” (Ar-Rum: 17-18)

The number of prayers are not mentioned in the Qur’an, but they are mentioned in the hadiths of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him).

islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=1119503543416

 

[jakasaki]

http://theislampath.com/smf/Smileys/default/salam.gif

** In the name of Allah , the Most Gracious , Ever Merciful **

The Five Daily Prayers: Any Mention in the Qur’an?

Q. Please let me know if the Qur’an instructs us to offer prayer five times a day, and where? A cousin of mine says that the Qur’an instructs us to offer prayers only three times a day.

Muzammil Siddiqi :In the Qur’an, Allah, Most High, has given us some specific times of prayers, but He did not mention the number. It is not said anywhere in the Qur’an that one must pray five times or three times. The Qur’an mentions that the prayer is prescribed for the believers at specific times (An-Nisa’: 103).

In Surat Al-Isra’ Allah says, "Establish regular prayers at the sun’s decline till the darkness of the night, and (the recital of) the Qur’an at dawn. Lo! (the recital of) the Qur’an at dawn is ever witnessed. And some part of the night awake for it, a largess for thee. It may be that thy Lord will raise thee to a praised estate.” (Al-Isra’: 78-79)

The time of “the sun’s decline” (duluk ash-shams) is interpreted as Zhuhr, Asr and Maghrib. The "darkness of the night" (ghasaq al-layl) is interpreted as Isha’ prayer. And "the recital of the Qur’an at dawn " (Qur’an al-fajr) is Fajr prayer.

In Surat Taha Allah says, “Therefore be patient with what they say, and celebrate (constantly) the praises of thy Lord, before the rising of the sun, and before its setting; yea, celebrate them for part of the hours of the night, and at the sides of the day: that thou mayest have (spiritual) joy.” (Taha: 130)

In Surat Ar-Rum Allah says, "So (give) glory to Allah, when you reach eventide and when you rise in the morning. Yea, to Him be praise, in the heavens and on earth; and in the late afternoon and when the day begins to decline.” (Ar-Rum: 17-18)

The number of prayers are not mentioned in the Qur’an, but they are mentioned in the hadiths of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him).

islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=1119503543416

Thank you for your time, you however have not answer my question or perhaps it’s meaning (my question) has not been understood…

 

[jakasaki]

Perhaps " Muhammad wanted to keep his followers away from education because he knew that his newly established religion could not survive if criticism is allowed."

Great article and thank you for sharing - I would love for the site to update their numbers to current figures- that would be interesting to see… Thanks again Sedona_man…

 

[planten]

Originally Posted by sedonaman
Perhaps " Muhammad wanted to keep his followers away from education because he knew that his newly established religion could not survive if criticism is allowed."

Great article and thank you for
sharing - I would love for the site to update their numbers to current figures- that would be interesting to see… Thanks again Sedona_man…

**Jakasaki and sedonaman, please note that islam (and Quran) exhorts for increase in knowledge. There is clear verse in Quran which says as a prayer “Rabb i Zidni Ilmaa”. meaning “O our Lord, increase our knowledge.”

Also , the prophet had said ." Acquire knowledge even if you have to go to China."

Also, you know that when Europe was in dark ages, the teachings institutes of Andalusia (Spain) were flouridhing in knowledge and the princes of European countries used to come to Spain to acquire knowledge.

And who gave you the ten digits 0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9 ??
You had the Roman digits I, II, III, IV, V, VI, Try to add or multiply by those numbers. Can you?

In the face of such news, how could you blame Islam for lack of investigation. In fact it is the reverse is true. the christians have nothing logical and nothing rational. They have Only beliefs without any foundation.**

 

[sedonaman]

Great article and thank you for sharing - I would love for the site to update their numbers to current figures- that would be interesting to see… Thanks again Sedona_man…

You’re welcome. I wouldn’t think all that much has changed in the last 5 or so years. In fact, one might ask if it had changed much in the last 1,400.

 

[sedonaman]

Jakasaki and sedonaman, please note that islam (and Quran) exhorts for increase in knowledge. There is clear verse in Quran which says as a prayer “Rabb i Zidni Ilmaa”. meaning “O our Lord, increase our knowledge.”

And these folks are the last to enter Islamic paradise.

Also , the prophet had said ." Acquire knowledge even if you have to go to China."

And Jesus said, “Do not fly in airplanes on odd Tuesdays.”

Also, you know that when Europe was in dark ages, the teachings institutes of Andalusia (Spain) were flouridhing in knowledge and the princes of European countries used to come to Spain to acquire knowledge.

We know all about that. What knowledge came out of the Muslim world of Spain was not really Muslim in origin but from Christians forced to convert to Islam and dhimmis who didn’t. There is no positive knowledge of any consequence that can be traced back to an Islamic origin.

And who gave you the ten digits 0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9 ??

The Hidus. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero

In the face of such news, how could you blame Islam for lack of investigation.

Because their lack of investigation is true.

 

[jakasaki]

Actually they are 72 virgins per these two authentic hadiths:

1) Musnad Ahmed Hadith #10511:
“The Messenger of Allah may Allah bless him said that the lowest status of the person in Paradise has seven degrees and he is in the sixth one and above him is the seventh, and he has 300 servants, and every day 300 golden food trays served for him, in each tray a food color other than the other one and its delicious from its beginning till its end , and he says O Lord, if you authorize me to feed and give drinks to the people of Paradise it will not reduce from my food anything, and he has of the wives 72 Hours(Virgins) other than his earthy wives, and each Hour(Virgin) has a seat (place) of one earth mile.”

**مسند أحمد
** قال رسول الله ‏ ‏صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏ ‏إن أدنى أهل الجنة منزلة إن له لسبع درجات وهو على السادسة وفوقه السابعة وإن له لثلاث مائة خادم ‏ ‏ويغدى عليه ويراح كل يوم ثلاث مائة صحفة ‏ ‏ولا أعلمه إلا قال ‏ ‏من ذهب في كل صحفة لون ليس في الأخرى وإنه ليلذ أوله كما يلذ آخره وإنه ليقول يا رب لو أذنت لي لأطعمت أهل الجنة وسقيتهم لم ينقص مما عندي شيء وإن له من الحور العين لاثنين وسبعين زوجة سوى أزواجه من الدنيا وإن الواحدة منهن ليأخذ مقعدها قدر ميل من الأرض ‏
​

(A)

2) Sunan Altermizy Hadith #2485:
“The Messenger of Allah may Allah bless him said that the lowest person in Paradise has 80,000 servants and 72 wives, and a dome from pearl, peridot, and ruby as the distance between the Jabia city and Sanaa city.”

**سنن الترمذي
** قال رسول الله ‏ ‏صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏ ‏أدنى أهل الجنة الذي له ثمانون ألف خادم واثنتان وسبعون زوجة وتنصب له ‏ ‏قبة ‏ ‏من لؤلؤ وزبرجد وياقوت كما بين ‏ ‏الجابية ‏ ‏إلى ‏ ‏صنعاء ‏
​

(A)

And to add to yours…

Al-Tirmidhi Hadith 3834
Narrated by Al-Miqdam ibn Ma’dikarib

Allah’s Messenger (peace be upon him) said, “The **martyr **receives six good things from Allah: he is forgiven at the first shedding of his blood; he is shown his abode in Paradise; he is preserved from the punishment in the grave; he is kept safe from the greatest terror; he has placed on his head the crown of honour, **a ruby **of which is better than the world and what it contains; **he is married to seventy-two wives of the maidens with large dark eyes; **and is made intercessor for seventy of his relatives.”

With rewards such as these, is it a wonder why believers prefer **‘MARTYRDOM’ **with suicide bombings?

 

[jakasaki]

Hi

The word Islam is very much mentioned in Quran and it means peace.

Thanks

What does ‘Islam’ mean?

The Arabic word ‘Islam’ simply means ‘submission’, and derives from a word meaning ‘peace’. **In a religious context it means complete submission **to the will of God. ‘Mohammedanism’ is thus a misnomer because it suggests that Muslims worship Muhammad rather than God. ‘Allah’ is the Arabic name for God, which is used by Arab Muslims and Christians alike.

Ref: islamicity.com/Mosque/uiatm/un_islam.htm

 

[Jay53]

 

[Jay53]

And I’m giving up snacking for Lent too! He’ll have to hurry up and answer. Maybe he’ll still chime in tonight. I don’t know what time zone he’s in.