Ask about Islam round 3!

[Seeker]

I see your point below when you say it was culturally acceptable at the time of Mohammed, but there were other things that were other culturally acceptable norms that Mohammed got rid of, like prohibiting female infanticide as an example (islamic-law.suite101.com/article.cfm/prohibiting_female_infanticide). So why did he not break the cultural norm of marrying girls at pre-pubescent ages, like 6 yrs of age? By his actions which muslims follow to the Tee, in a sense sanctions others muslims to marry girls as young as 6yrs old.

I do not know if you have any children, but if you did and you had a daughter who was 6yrs of age, would you allow a 53 yr old pious, good muslim man to marry her?.

The other point i’d like to mention is that what Mohammed did was not GOD’s law. If you say it is, i’d like to see where in Quran GOD allows a man to marry pre-pubescent girls. If you point me to a Hadith, then that’s not GOD’s word, it’s man’s attempt to understand and interpret GOD’s word.

Thanks

Seeker

Salaam/ Peace
John7;4638061:

…Why did Muhammad have sex with a 9 year old?QUOTE]

There is no age bar on marriage in Islam . Early marriage was common in the past . Now it’s prohibited by men made law ; no holy books say it’s a sin to have a young wife. This has been discussed here several times .

After the Akth ( marriage ceremony ) , Prophet (p) waited long 3 years . When Aisha (p) reached at her puberty/ started having mense that is a sign that a girl is phycially matured , then he brought her home upon her parents request.

related link: The Young Marriage of `Âishah (R)

Mohd Elfie Nieshaem Juferi

** few points : 1. Women in warmer environments reach puberty at a much earlier age than those in cold environments.

1. Marriage at the early years of puberty was acceptable in 7th century Arabia as it was the social norm in all Semitic cultures from the Israelites to the Arabs and all nations in between.
2. According to Hâ-Talmûd Hâ-Bavlî, which the Jews regard as their “oral Torah”, Sanhedrin 76b clearly states that it is preferable that a woman be married when she has her first menses, and in Ketuvot 6a there are rules regarding sexual intercourse with girls who have not yet menstruated.
3. The missionaries try to accuse the Prophet of being a child molester, albeit in politically correct terms, due to the fact that `Âishah(R) was betrothed (zawaj) at the age of 6 years old and the marriage was consummated (nikâh) a few years after the marriage at 9 years old when she was in full puberty.

The lapse of time between the zawaj and nikâh of `Âishah(R) clearly shows that her parents were waiting for her to reach puberty before her marriage was consummated.

1. The Prophet’s contemporaries (both enemies and friends) clearly accepted the Prophet’s marriage to `Âishah(R) without any problem. We see the evidence for this by the lack of criticism against the marriage until modern times.
2. In Japan, people can legally have sex at age 13, and in Spain they can legally have sex at the age of 12 years old[9].
3. A 40-year-old man having sex with a 14-year-old woman may be a “pedophile” in the United States, but neither in China today, where the age of consent is 14, nor in the United States in the last century
4. In the U.S. during the last century, the age of consent was 10 years old. California was the first state to change the age of consent to 14, which it did in 1889

bismikaallahuma.org/Polemics/aishah.htm

 

[planten]

For the Seeker. The reply is very simple according to your own logic. See your logic below:

The other point i’d like to mention is that what Mohammed did was not GOD’s law. If you say it is, i’d like to see where in Quran GOD allows a man to marry pre-pubescent girls. If you point me to a Hadith, then that’s not GOD’s word, it’s man’s attempt to understand and interpret GOD’s word.

I may ask you “Where in the Quran, it says that Muhammad married six year old girl?”

First you have to show that from the Quran. Then you can ask any such question. And you know that it is not in the Quran that he married any six year girl. It is all wrong.

I am already WARNED on this forum. Previously, paarsurrey, a responsible muslim is put on reveiw and cannot help the muslims here in any debate. That is all because the Catholics complain about Muslims. They report to the MODS because they have no reply to anything at all.

Now here you are assuming and discussing that prophet married a very young girl. But did you know at what age Mary gave birth to Jesus? If we suggest the age (12) then Catholics start crying. So it is better for the Catholics to look to both sides before jumping on to something. What do you say?

 

[dzheremi]

We “start crying”? Hahaha. What planet are you living on, Planten? Are we even looking at the same board? If you suggest Mary was 12 when she gave birth to Jesus, I will ask what you are basing that on, but even if it was true, so what? Mary and Joseph did not consumate their marriage EVER, so what exactly is the problem if she was young when she carried Our Lord? God’s plan for her was perfect. Islamic literature supports it. It is YOU who has nothing to gain by bringing this up (again).

On the other hand, is it not written that Muhammad slept with Aisha when she was 9? That is the difference, my friend. It is the difference between maintaining the purity of a young girl against the accusations of first century Jewish society versus having sex with a 9 year old girl because you say that God allows you to.

 

[Muslim_Woman]

** In the name of Allah , the Most Gracious , Ever Merciful **

http://theislampath.com/smf/Smileys/default/salam.gif

… there were other things that were other culturally acceptable norms that Mohammed got rid of, like prohibiting female infanticide

Prophet (pbuh) did not ban anything by his own will . Rvealation came from God Almighty not to kill children .

No minimum age was fixed for marriage in Quran & other major holy books . But there is a verse in Quran that says to take care of orphans & return their property when they reach at the age of maturity. If believers must take care of orphans like this , it’s obvious how much love & affection they should show to their own kids.

Girls are not burden on parents & they must not be forced in to marriage ever. But sadly some parents force them & even when the man is not a pious Muslim , they arrange daughter’s marriage with him . In many cases , we see that father took a loan & unalble to pay back the money & the other party is taking the advantage of his poverty . It’s not the teaching of Islam .

Prophet (pbuh) never forced anyone to marry him & Mother Aisha (pbuh) was happry in her married life. When God asked wives of the Prophet if they want wealth in exchange of ending married life with him , it was Aisha (ra ) who first responded that I want him.

By his actions which muslims follow to the Tee, in a sense sanctions others muslims to marry girls as young as 6yrs old.

As mentioned already , Prophet (pbuh) never forced anyone to marry. He was first married to a woman who was a widow , aged & had children . He never took other wife as long as she was alive . His other wives were pious but aged , divorced with kids etc. It’s sad that today’s Muslim men don’t want to take responsiblity of any widow , divorced with kids but show interest to marry young girls whose families are poor .

would you allow a 53 yr old pious, good muslim man to marry her?.

this is a common question by non-Muslims & answer is of course , if he was Prophet Muahmmed (pbuh) .

 

[chrisse]

I see your point below when you say it was culturally acceptable at the time of Mohammed, but there were other things that were other culturally acceptable norms that Mohammed got rid of, like prohibiting female infanticide as an example (islamic-law.suite101.com/article.cfm/prohibiting_female_infanticide). So why did he not break the cultural norm of marrying girls at pre-pubescent ages, like 6 yrs of age? By his actions which muslims follow to the Tee, in a sense sanctions others muslims to marry girls as young as 6yrs old.

I do not know if you have any children, but if you did and you had a daughter who was 6yrs of age, would you allow a 53 yr old pious, good muslim man to marry her?.

The other point i’d like to mention is that what Mohammed did was not GOD’s law. If you say it is, i’d like to see where in Quran GOD allows a man to marry pre-pubescent girls. If you point me to a Hadith, then that’s not GOD’s word, it’s man’s attempt to understand and interpret GOD’s word.

Thanks

Seeker

The verse from the qur’an is 65:4 :

[4] Such of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them the prescribed period, if ye have any doubts, is three months, and for those who have no courses (it is the same): for those who carry (life within their wombs), their period is until they deliver their burdens: and for those who fear Allah, He will make their path easy.

The part I’ve put in bold is the relevant clause. The tafsir (explanation) from Ibn Kathir :

There is a third type of divorce, which is neither a Sunnah nor an innovation where one divorces a young wife who has not begun to have menses, the wife who is beyond the age of having menses, and divorcing one’s wife before the marriage was consummated. Allah said,

Tafsir from al Jalalayan :

and [also for] those who have not yet menstruated, because of their young age, their period shall [also] be three months

The two other tafsirs with the last link confirm pre-menstruating girls. There is no age limit as to how young, even babies can be “married” and handed over to their “husbands” in islam.

 

[Muslim_Woman]

** In the name of Allah , the Most Gracious , Ever Merciful **

http://theislampath.com/smf/Smileys/default/salam.gif

A Woman For All Seasons: Aisha bint Abu Bakr

Denise Halel

In the land of Arabia, a child was born, and this child grew into a remarkable and great Muslim—and her name was Aisha. Through the centuries, there have been numerous accusations and theories to discredit Islam and its last Prophet, Muhammad (pbuh).

… It is interesting to note that Aisha was already engaged to a man named Jubair Ibn al Mut’am inb ‘Adi before she become engaged to Muhammad (pbuh). …The Prophet’s marriage to Aisha was an exceedingly happy one for both of them, and that this union was Divinely revealed: Hadith narrated by Aisha: Allah’s Apostle said (to me), “You were shown to me in a dream. An angel brought you to me, wrapped in a piece of silken cloth, and said to me, ‘This is your wife,’ I removed the piece of cloth from your face, and there you were. I said to myself. ‘If it is from Allah, then it will surely be.’”

… … She was an eyewitness to a number of revelations and had a clear idea of the circumstances in which they were revealed. … Aisha took boys and girls (some of them orphans) into her custody and educated them.

Aisha, the wife of Muhammad (pbuh) was also a brave young politically active woman who was present on a number of battlefields, including the battles of Badr, Uhud, and Al-Khandaq.

… Abu Musa al-Ashari once said, “If we companions of the Messenger of God had any difficulty on a matter, we asked Aisha about it.” … Her narration of at least 2,000 hadith (many of these pertaining to some of the most intimate aspects of personal behavior) gave Muslims valuable insights into the Prophet’s daily life and behavior, thus preserving the Sunnah of Muhammad (phuh).

Aisha is proof positive that women can be more learned than men and can be the teacher of scholars; she can exert influence over men and women and, at the same time, be a loving source of joy and pleasure to her husband.

… Aisha was the most knowledgeable and pious Muslim woman of her time and continues to be a role model and source of inspiration for Muslims and non-Muslims around the world.

crescentlife.com/thisthat/feminist%20muslims/aisha_bint_abu_bakr.htm

 

[conflicted1]

**

this is a common question by non-Muslims & answer is of course , if he was Prophet Muahmmed (pbuh) .**

This was muslim “woman’s” response to the query from Seeker “…if you did and you had a daughter who was 6yrs of age, would you allow a 53 yr old pious, good muslim man to marry her?”

Would any of you allow a 30 year old Jesus to marry your 10 year old daughters? God or no God I would kill Jesus if he even looked at my 10 year old niece in a lustful manner.

Of course, Jesus would never do such a thing.

I think even prayer cannot save muslim “woman.”

 

[sedonaman]

There is no reason to delve into whether or not Mohammed married a pre-pubescent girl. Anyone can stand up and claim to have received a revelation from God [Allah, etc.], and the first question people want answered is how do we know if he is being truthful, is pretending, or is just delusional? This was enough of a problem for Mohammed that he had to address it, and that is in the Koran.

Since he performed no miracles, he had to rely on some other proof, and that proof was Judeo-Christian scriptures and prophets. He subsequently denied the veracity of those scriptures [the Trinity, the deity of Christ, etc.] and prophets. Apparently, no one asked the follow-up question of why he was trashing his own justification for his claim to prophethood. Perhaps critical analysis had not been developed yet. See my post # 960 in this thread for more detail and a link to the complete analysis, which is the type of theological arguments (name removed by moderator) says Muslims must get accustomed to in this pluralistic world. It might even generate some questions of their own.

Planten, if you read my posts you will see where I loathe the view that all Muslims are terrorists or that all Muslims are automatically violent but on the other side of the coin if you cannot do better than your continual, foolish assertions that Christians have no morals or no rules then I would suggest you need to rethink why you are even here in this forum.

P.S. Don’t discourage him; his posts are way too entertaining.

 

[sedonaman]

…
I am already WARNED on this forum. Previously, paarsurrey, a responsible muslim is put on reveiw and cannot help the muslims here in any debate. That is all because the Catholics complain about Muslims. They report to the MODS because they have no reply to anything at all.

See my post # 960 at:

sedonaman:
for a reply.

 

[Muslim_Woman]

** In the name of Allah , the Most Gracious , Ever Merciful **

http://theislampath.com/smf/Smileys/default/salam.gif

…I would kill Jesus if he even looked at my 10 year old niece in a lustful manner.

So , there is no difference between a lustful manner & sending marriage proposal ? At least , in Islam , a man has a right to send proposal to her parents .

If your religion has any objection about sending proposal to 10 years old girl , then pl. quote the verse from Bible.
Also , in USA , 10 years old girls marriage was common & lawful . By men made laws , it became illegal say about 100 years back. But your holy book does not say so .

 

[Muslim_Woman]

** In the name of Allah , the Most Gracious , Ever Merciful **

http://theislampath.com/smf/Smileys/default/salam.gif

…I think even prayer cannot save muslim “woman.”

U believe , Christians loving Prince will fry me in fire forever ??? But according to God’s final holy book , only if I take other diety besides God & die without repentance , then I will be in eternal fire . Otherwise , supporting a legal marriage is not considered as a sin

 

[sedonaman]

Also , in USA , 10 years old girls marriage was common & lawful .

What evidence do you have of this besides just making the claim yourself?

By men made laws , it became illegal say about 100 years back.

What law was that?

In any event, what does your claim prove? That it was OK for Mohammed in the seventh century because you think it was lawful in the 19th century US? What does one have to do with the other?

 

[conflicted1]

What evidence do you have of this besides just making the claim yourself?

What law was that?

In any event, what does your claim prove? That it was OK for Mohammed in the seventh century because you think it was lawful in the 19th century US? What does one have to do with the other?

Thank you for responding to muslim “woman.” I will now block her as I have blocked planten. She is beyond sick.

Lust or marriage proposal, what’s the difference? No adult male should want any adult relationship with a child and a woman who would willingly allow her own daughter to marry an adult male is not a woman, in my definition, and just as sick and twisted as the women who murder their own children.

The only good that comes from speaking to the muslims I live among and reading the posts from muslims is it makes me even MORE greatful to God. Greatful that I was not born into a muslim family. It also re-affirms my faith in the God of the Jews and Christians.

Now if only I could be faithful to God and practice true patience, and tolerance towards muslims…

 

[Muslim_Woman]

In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

Heba - Antilles Netherlands

Is it permitted to read romantic novels?

Abdul-Fattah Ashoor:

"Reading books have many benefits. A Muslim should read that which is beneficial to him. It stands to reason that the Muslim should avoid reading romantic novels that only arouse sexual desires and ignite lust in him/her.

This is due to the fact that reading such things will fill him/her with temptation and drive him/her away from remembering Almighty Allah.

Reading romantic novels may be dangerous in the same way as films are, as both may contain expressions about immoral people and immoral practices that are forbidden for a Muslim.

So, I advise my dear daughter to read the history of Prophets and to ponder over verses of the Glorious Qur’an as well as the biography of Prophets, something extensively dealt with in the Qur’an. I advise her also to read the history of Islamic battles, etc. Getting her mind engrossed with these noble readings, she will find herself in no need for reading such novels."

Allah Almighty knows best.

islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=1119503544622

 

[Charlotte2008]

Please tell me why God would have created such a beautiful world if he was going to change his mind 600 years later. He gave us all free will to live our lives and I do not believe he would change his mind and take it away again and expect us to submit to him completely. Why would he never have wanted us to enjoy the inspirations he gave writers and musicians? You may not agree with the books but they are just escapism - they are not manuals to live your life by. Music is not an evil thing either - it was created by God. Please read a Bible and see how much God loves everybody. He is not a control freak violent psycho like Allah! I feel so sad for Muslim women that they have to walk around in ugly sack clothing and popping out 10 kids each and never get to see the world and never get to experience anything other than the rules of islam. Why would a loving God expect that from anyone he created? How anyone could want to live that kind of life I do not know!

 

[rikkk1958]

In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

http://theislampath.com/smf/Smileys/default/salam.gif

Heba - Antilles Netherlands

Is it permitted to read romantic novels?

Abdul-Fattah Ashoor:

"Reading books have many benefits. A Muslim should read that which is beneficial to him. It stands to reason that the Muslim should avoid reading romantic novels that only arouse sexual desires and ignite lust in him/her.

This is due to the fact that reading such things will fill him/her with temptation and drive him/her away from remembering Almighty Allah.

Reading romantic novels may be dangerous in the same way as films are, as both may contain expressions about immoral people and immoral practices that are forbidden for a Muslim.

So, I advise my dear daughter to read the history of Prophets and to ponder over verses of the Glorious Qur’an as well as the biography of Prophets, something extensively dealt with in the Qur’an. I advise her also to read the history of Islamic battles, etc. Getting her mind engrossed with these noble readings, she will find herself in no need for reading such novels."

Allah Almighty knows best.

islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=1119503544622

I agree with your desire to avoid temptations by not reading romantic novels or other things which you think might stimulate sexual arousal. That is a choice you make so make good of it. Perhaps you want to be perfect but I know and you know you can not do that. However, it is still a must to avoid those sinful desires. We as normal human beings have human instinct, not God’s. In our world as Christians we chose what path of life to take. Some follows God’s way, some don’t, some do it half, half. As a normal human being who chose to have a family, I can only say I live with my instinct because as far as I know we can not be perfect and there are times we forget what the flesh is doing which is contrary to the will of God.

On the other hand we have many people who devout themselves to God alone. For men, there are priests, then there are those who are extremely devout, we call them monks. For women too, there are nuns who live normally outside the convent but not married, but there are also who wished to be confined in a monastery and devout themselves to God alone. So, this is because of our free will to chose which lives we should live and because people have different instincts they can not have the same lives or will.

So sister, so do not teach us that all muslims lived according to God’s will because there are those who are bad, but then there are those who are good. What we are discussing here is the issue of whose God is true and false. If I am a good human being who wants to follow God’s will, then I will follow the one who is true. This one is the Christian way not yours.

 

[Muslim_Woman]

In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

… I feel so sad for Muslim women that they have to walk around in ugly sack clothing

when u see Catholic Nuns cover themselves from head to toe , u start crying ??

and popping out 10 kids each !

huh as if it’s a sin to have many kids ?? Chrisitans specially Catholics must try hard to beat Muslims in baby booming . But Chrisitans do it lawfully like Muslims do . Get married first ,then have babies . don’t do the opposite please please please.

 

[Charlotte2008]

**
when u see Catholic Nuns cover themselves from head to toe , u start crying ??

**Nuns do it as a job plus they do not cover all their hair so not the same thing at all. I went to a Convent school and I can tell you that sometimes they did not even wear the headgear. Muslim women on the other hand have to wear that sack outfit. Do not tell me that every Muslim woman wants to wear it either because that is a lie. How many more honour killings do we have to hear about with fathers (in the West) beating their daughters to death for not wearing one? Also, when Afghanistan was liberated most took it straight off! Now they are forced to wear it again. Iran they are forced to wear it too. If anything if you love your “sisters” you would not wear it in the West as a protest against it. ****
huh as if it’s a sin to have many kids ?? Chrisitans specially Catholics must try hard to beat Muslims in baby booming . But Chrisitans do it lawfully like Muslims do . Get married first ,then have babies . don’t do the opposite please please please.

It is a sin if you cannot look after them yourself and rely on welfare/state benefits. It is not a race and we are not trying to take over the planet and make it completely Catholic are we. Islam on the other hand is. It is not baby booming though is it - more like jihadi production - we have ex-muslims in our Church and he told me they were “the army for allah” he now feels sick about that. You didn’t read what I said properly though so do not change the subject and for once please answer the actual questions. Christian women do marry before having kids so stop reading the bad press about western women. Please please please stop being so patronising because it is getting boring boring boring.

 

[Booklover]

In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

http://theislampath.com/smf/Smileys/default/salam.gif

Heba - Antilles Netherlands

Is it permitted to read romantic novels?

Abdul-Fattah Ashoor:

"Reading books have many benefits. A Muslim should read that which is beneficial to him. It stands to reason that the Muslim should avoid reading romantic novels that only arouse sexual desires and ignite lust in him/her.

This is due to the fact that reading such things will fill him/her with temptation and drive him/her away from remembering Almighty Allah.

Reading romantic novels may be dangerous in the same way as films are, as both may contain expressions about immoral people and immoral practices that are forbidden for a Muslim.

So, I advise my dear daughter to read the history of Prophets and to ponder over verses of the Glorious Qur’an as well as the biography of Prophets, something extensively dealt with in the Qur’an. I advise her also to read the history of Islamic battles, etc. Getting her mind engrossed with these noble readings, she will find herself in no need for reading such novels."

Allah Almighty knows best.

islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=1119503544622

I agree that sexually explicit novels should be avoided, but there are many books out there that are not like that! There is nothing wrong with reading books simply for pleasure. Are mystery stories also haram? Does Islam allow any books that have nothing to do with Islam?

Vickie

 

[Charlotte2008]

I agree that sexually explicit novels should be avoided, but there are many books out there that are not like that! There is nothing wrong with reading books simply for pleasure. Are mystery stories also haram? Does Islam allow any books that have nothing to do with Islam?

Vickie

No. They are only allow books to do with Allah or just to read quran. Music is not allowed either. Another thing about muslims - they are not allowed to sleep on their stomach! There is no free will and that is one reason why I do not believe Allah and God are the same.