Ask about Islam round 3!

[morning_star777]

Firstly, Although your words may be true, your post has no relation to what you quoted. She was not discussing how Muslims treat Catholics, but how Catholics treat Muslims, from her experience at least. Secondly, I doubt generalizations are appreciated by anyone as they lump individuals together, even if there are deviants in said group. I do not believe that Muslims (implied all) are always hostile to non-Muslims, although some probably are. Are there Muslims killing people, yes, but not just non-Muslims. I read in the paper today of a bomber who attacked a mosque in Pakistan during Friday prayers. And what is this thing with the West, it should be a shame that any girl is raped, not just “Western” girls, and no doubt there are Muslims who agree with that sentiment. As for a Muslim who loves a non-Muslim, a name in San Jose named Ibrahim Baballah claims to be born from such a union, and I assume there was love in the marriage from which he was born. Not all Muslims are always hostile, and I have difficulty figure out what you mean toward the end. So you rebuke Muslims, but I think you would be offended if they were to rebuke you with those same words in turn. Yes, there are people in our house responsible for the deaths of some Muslims, no matter how direct, and every avoidable death is a mark against us. Uh… and are you asking her to clean her house (figuratively) before she asks others not to kill people and do good?

If I have made any mistakes regarding your train of thought, I would greatly appreciate any correction.

1st i want to say,maybe you are correct that my post has few relation with her post but with due respect i want to say,it is better if no one try to teach me the islamic culture and the habits of muslims.many times i wrote in my previous posts that i was a muslim and then how the abusive muslims made me atheist and then jesus saved me last year.but for the fear of my family i still can not fine option for my official conversion.i and muslim woman are from same country though we do not know each other.she said many times that missionaries are very much active in our country,although i did not find any missionary who is preaching christianity in muslims.anyway if she can, will she give me some address?i saw that she was bashing us with sugar coated words since many days so i just tried to remind her about the activities of her own house.anyway i will discuss with you if you want but not today because a heavy storm occured here and the electricity line is disconnected so i am posting from phone but battery is about to dead and it is not easy to post via mobile phone. So i will use computer,when electricity will be back and then i will discuss with you,why i have post such things that has few relation with her post.but we will discuss only if you want to discuss.anyway,thanks for your good post.god bless you.

 

[Muslim_Woman]

In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

Salaam/peace

Azlina - Malaysia

I am looking for either al-Qur’an surah or hadith that describes the dialogue between shaytaan (the devil) or Iblis (Satin) with rasuluAllah (God’s messenger) that mentions something about both as Allah’s creation - thus no difference!

However, Man was chosen as the selected khalifah, etc. This should be able to convince many Muslims who are still thinking that shaytaan has the power over us, the humans.

Waleed Ahmed Najmeddine :

…regarding the dialogue between Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) and the devil, I have not come across this in any hadith from Bukhari or Muslim. It is definitely not in the Qur’an either.

The point you made about man being Allah’s khalifa is correct as mentioned in many places in the Holy Qur’an. Allah says in the Qur’an:

Behold, thy Lord said to the angels: "I will create a vicegerent on earth." They said: "Wilt Thou place therein one who will make mischief therein and shed blood?- whilst we do celebrate Thy praises and glorify Thy holy (name)?" He said: "I know what ye know not."

Surah 2 Verse 30 Also:     We did indeed offer the Trust to the Heavens and the Earth and the Mountains; but they refused to undertake it, being afraid thereof: but man undertook it;- He was indeed unjust and foolish;-     Surah 33 Verse 72

So, Man definitely has been entrusted with a great responsibility to take care of the earth and its creatures and bounties, which Allah has provided us. This is as well as the responsibility of spreading His Word to all of humanity.

The devil, however, has no real power to affect man. He only has the ability to make evil suggestions to our hearts and minds.

It is only the Evil One that suggests to you the fear of his votaries: Be ye not afraid of them, but fear Me, if ye have Faith.    Surah 3 Verse 175

This is an attempt by him and his cohorts to divert us from the Path of Allah and to lead us astray from His remembrance. The shaytan knows that he will be cast into the eternal Hellfire on the Day of Judgment. So, he wants to take as many of us, as he can, with him, if he is able.

He said: "Seest Thou? this is the one whom Thou hast honoured above me! If Thou wilt but respite me to the Day of Judgment, I will surely bring his descendants under my sway - all but a few!"    Surah 17 Verse 62

These ‘few’ are those righteous believers who ask for Allah’s guidance and protection from the evils of this life and follow the guidance that Allah has sent them.

We seek refuge in Allah from the evil of the shaytan and his cohorts.

Ameen
[readingislam.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1123996015622&pagename=IslamOnline-English-AAbout_Islam/AskAboutIslamE/AskAboutIslamE](http://www.readingislam.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1123996015622&pagename=IslamOnline-English-AAbout_Islam/AskAboutIslamE/AskAboutIslamE)

 

[chrisse]

You can’t even be bothered getting the historical facts right about your own tradition, as we have already seen in your poor understanding of the role of the idea of predestination within important Christian texts and thinkers from Paul to Thomas Aquinas, so it not surprising I suppose that you prefer to ignore the history of Islam as well in preference to what you call the facts.

Dictation is not a good translation of wahy, period…nor is it an accurate description of the revelatory experiences of the Prophet (pbuh) or his struggle to find words for the experiences (a secretary does not struggle with dictation).

And what 1400 years of Islam has produced is the almost universal existence of Sufism in a variety a forms throughout most of the Islamic world and across Sunni and Shi’a lines doing all sorts of things that the one group who you would like to identify as Muslim consider heretical (which is why the modernists in Pakistan for instance attack Sufi shrines, etc.). And it produced a thriving tradition of Persian philosophy, in particular the Ishraqi school which remains fairly vibrant, and Persian and Urdu poetry, etc., etc.

And btw, when most Muslims talk about modernists (i.e., the group that are NOT traditionalists) in Islam, they are not talking about me and it certainly not the Sufis. They are talking about the Salafi, the very group you try to identify with the true Islam.

As my response to the question about Islam and politics already ought to have revealed, I am not a liberal by any stretch of the imagination (perish the thought). I am just someone who has a better sense of the history and tradition of Islam (and arguably Christianity) than you have shown so far.

Finally, I am puzzled, since you say that you do not deal with minor groups and only the strong who actually have power and influence why it is that you wish to reduce Islam to the Salafi. The only country where they are arguably in control is Saudi Arabia, and even there there is tension and constant power struggle with and within the royal family and the urban elite (who are for the most part not sympathetic at all to the religious police in the kingdom…a wkend in Jeddah will clear that up for you). No other country in the Arabic speaking world is run by a government sympathetic to the Salafi. Or to move over to the Shi’a and Iran. You certainly have a kind of theocracy there, but one that certainly does not understand revelation the way you just defined it, nor do they think Islam has to be lived in Arabic (they in fact would scoff at the idea and are the bitter enemies of the Salafi), etc. etc. And not only have we ignored Turkey, but we haven’t dealt with the largest population of Muslims which is in Asia. They have their own modernist issues, but again within a minority of the populations. The major representatives of Islam in places like Malayasia are often more politically liberal than I am when it comes to things like the separation of politics and religion. The fact is that even in the current climate you are not describing the groups who are actually in power nor the people they represent, even if it is true that modernism has been ascendant and destructive in the 20th and 21st c. (so far).

So let’s be honest. You have singled out a group that has grown in influence due to its access to money, has been associated with anti-government violence both in “the West” and “the East”, but has little actual political power outside Saudi Arabia, makes everyone’s life miserable…and decided to call it Islam. [and just to be clear…I am actually being unfair to the Salafi here, because most of them are not involved in anti-state violence, though most of them would be supportive of the types of interpretation of fiqh that you mention.]

Firstly, I am not discussing the history of Christian theological thought. I was discussing predestination in Islam. Simple fact is, it is within the trilogy of islam that allah has predestined non-believers to non-belief, and predestined non-believes to islamic hellfire. Good luck with your new islamic sect. Hope yours is the one who gets to the islamic whorehouse in the sky.

I have not singled out any group. I am addressing the theocratic ideology of islam. It is you who is trying to make this about a group. To me, the only difference between islam and communism is in islam they threw a thin veneer of religion around it, thereby muddying the waters in discussing the totalitarian, imperialistic and warring nature of the ideology. Hence, the discussion on this board of this very weak religious cult that is part of islam.

I am addressing this issue on this board as islam is not from YHWH, allah has no association with YHWH, allah was a deceiver. In reality, allah was mohammet’s imaginery friend. However, this farce of islam is impacting innocent people all over the world today, and is impacting our society and civilisation in ways I will fight against.

It is you who should wake up to the reality of islam, if not for those “unbelievers” living in persecution within it, for those muslims who are also being persecuted because of it. But you won’t - it’s all about you.

 

[conflicted1]

It is you who should wake up to the reality of islam, if not for those “unbelievers” living in persecution within it, for those muslims who are also being persecuted because of it. But you won’t - it’s all about you.

That’s what it’s all about in a nutshell.

 

[sedonaman]

I was discussing predestination in Islam. …

newadvent.org/cathen/10424a.htm

 

[Muslim_Woman]

In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

Salaam/peace

Hadith Of The Day

If anyone helps the oppressed to get them their rights, then on the day of resurrection Allah will keep them steady on the bridge to paradise

 

[sedonaman]

If anyone helps the oppressed to get them their rights, then on the day of resurrection Allah will keep them steady on the bridge to paradise

Christianity and Islam have different views of God / Allah. Both the Bible and the Qur’an claim to be the Word of God / Allah but the theology of God and Allah is often strikingly different in these two books. … Let us begin by studying briefly the teaching of the Qur’an about the love of Allah.

First, there is in the Qur’an an exhortation to men to love Allah. Perhaps the best verse in the Qur’an which contains this injunction is this one:

“Say, If ye love Allah, follow me; Allah will love you and forgive you your sins”. Surah 3:31

Significantly, however, one does not find in this verse (nor in any other in the Qur’an) the command to love Allah with “all your heart, soul, and mind”. The reason is fairly clear from the verse itself. The hearer is exhorted to love Allah so that he may thereby obtain Allah’s love and forgiveness [the same goes for the hearer of MW’s post above]. The basic object, therefore, of this love is the acquittal and approval of Allah for the believer. Accordingly the motivation for such love must be the welfare and comfort of the believer. It is not suggested in the Qur’an that such love must be exercised in a disinterested and selfless manner with the glory of Allah foremost in the believer’s mind. On the contrary, the object of such love is really the believer himself. He seeks by this love fundamentally to turn aside Allah’s wrath and to gain his approval in its place. Now this is not the fruit of genuine love. Such love, as we have seen, must be the exercise of the purest affections of the heart towards Allah – it cannot be accompanied by an ancillary motive such as the principal objective of obtaining Allah’s forgiveness.

For this reason it is therefore quite significant that the Qur’an does not exhort the believer to love Allah with all his heart.

Source: answering-islam.org/Gilchrist/love.html

 

[chrisse]

newadvent.org/cathen/10424a.htm

The Mohammedan doctrine of predestination is equivalent to fatalism. They believe in God’s absolute decree and predetermination both of good and of evil; viz., whatever has been or shall be in the world, whether good or bad, proceeds entirely from the Divine will, and is irrevocably fixed and recorded from all eternity. The possession and the exercise of our own free will is, accordingly, futile and useless. The absurdity of this doctrine was felt by later Mohammedan theologians, who sought in vain by various subtile distinctions to minimize it.

Yes, and Hypatia has come under the influence of these theologians, who in modern times, with islam coming under the microscope together with the availability of the trilogy of islam to us all, are desperately trying to make sense out of the nonsense that is islam.

I believe that there are many muslims who believe they are worshipping YHWH, however, these muslims are usually in ignorance of the islamic doctrine, have never investigated it beyond doing their prayers and following the various commands on what to eat etc. The representatives on here, however, do not have that excuse - it can only be assumed that if they are that interested in their faith to come and debate it, then they have studied it themselves further.

 

[morning_star777]

In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

Salaam/peace

ummm celebrating Prophet’s birthday could be an example . In my country ( Bangladesh) , some groups bring out processions , hold banners , give slogans etc. These are not found in Quran or Hadith.

Also , Shabe Barat is very popular here ; that is also not mentioned in Quran .

link: Celebrating the 15th Night of Sha`ban

islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=1119503546098

Honestly i want to know something from you.My relatives and family are Ahle hadith and they always say that shab e barat is a type of beed’aat according to pure islam.but here hanafis celebrate it.so what is the truth?is it really beed’aat according to islamic view point or it is just another fatwa from ahle hadith?btw,i also know that it is not supported by islamic scriptures but i am not sure that it is anti sunnah or not!

 

[humble_in_doubt]

I have a question about Islam. How can so many people follow a man who molested a nine year child (actually I think Muhammad started raping Alisha when she was five or six … but married her at the ripe age of nine). Just when I start to think this world might be getting smarter, it’s dumbness continues to astonish me.

 

[planten]

( Whose religion is NOTHING. )

I have a question about Islam. How can so many people follow a man who molested a nine year child (actually I think Muhammad started raping Alisha when she was five or six … but married her at the ripe age of nine). Just when I start to think this world might be getting smarter, it’s dumbness continues to astonish me.

Humble-in-doubt, i.e. NOTHING, please note that anything and everything is better than NOTHING. If you have no religion and no faith in anything then you should please avoid slinging mud on any religious person. You should rather worry and think about your own blind alley and your own hopeless life…

 

[humble_in_doubt]

Humble-in-doubt, i.e. NOTHING, please note that anything and everything is better than NOTHING. If you have no religion and no faith in anything then you should please avoid slinging mud on any religious person. You should rather worry and think about your own blind alley and your own hopeless life…

You would sacrifice human pleasure for the false hope of fulfillment and some mystical eternal life in this unseen paradise you guys call heaven (coupled with all the guilt and irrational insanity of religion)? And you think I’m a fool … whatever.

And I bet you think you’re so full of profound insight and self-righteous indignation; when you’re just another slave to an illusion.

 

[planten]

Planten,believe me, Last night Jeebril came to me and told that Allah has changed his mind(like allah’s previous scriptures are altered),and choose me as another prophet.Planten Allah can do everything,correct?And if Allah’s word can be changed by men so why Allah can not change his own word?

PS.jibreel told me that I am the prophet,why not believe that?

** morning-star, last night your jibreel came to you. He may have slept with you and confided in something. I hope your jibreel did not do anything bad with you. We have nothing to do with that.

You follow your jibreel. Your jibreel elevated you to a high rank. Let us know if you believed him.

Allah is powerful (Capable) of doing everything (That He likes, that He Wills).

Not what you like or what you wish. Allah is not bound to follow your bad wishes.**

 

[sedonaman]

… How can so many people follow a man who molested a nine year child (actually I think Muhammad started raping Alisha when she was five or six … but married her at the ripe age of nine).
Just when I start to think this world might be getting smarter, it’s dumbness continues to astonish me.

As you have observed in your last sentence, people don’t always act intelligently. It’s been said that man’s knowledge is limited, but his stupidity is infinite.

 

[humble_in_doubt]

** Allah is powerful (Capable) of doing everything (That He likes, that He Wills)**

if allah can do anything, why did he pick a pedophile as his prophet? Surely he could have found someone more worthy. At least the Jesus crowd has a God who picks the most excellent men, whose righteousness can be compared to men of any era. Must be why the Muslim world is among the poorest, least intelligent, and most violent group of people on earth. Oh but I know … I’m the heretic.

 

[planten]

Humble-in-doubt, i.e. NOTHING, please note that anything and everything is better than NOTHING. If you have no religion and no faith in anything then you should please avoid slinging mud on any religious person. You should rather worry and think about your own blind alley and your own hopeless life. Return to God…

 

[humble_in_doubt]

did that make you feel better Planten? I hope so … I also recommend taking deep breaths, and perhaps even a little exercise. Seriously man, give secularism a try, you won’t regret it.

The sinners have far more fun than the saints. The secret is you have to be able to control sin, and not let it control you. This is called being your own master & shedding the need for absurdities like an invisible friend.

 

[Muslim_Woman]

In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

Salaam/peace

… i am not sure that it is anti sunnah or not!

There is no verse in Quran that prohibits us to offer Salat at night , recite Quran on any specific day , except Eid days we can fast through out the year . So , I see no problem why can’t offer we special prayer on that day & night .

Yes , it’s not true that our nexy year’s fate is writting on that specific night as there is no such verse in Quran . But offering salat , fasting , reciting Quran , give charity ---- I personally try to do all these & encourage others .

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

 

[Muslim_Woman]

In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

Salaam/peace

… I think Muhammad started raping Alisha when she was five or six …

If Muhammed (pbuh) is a fake Prophet , you don’t have to bring nasty allegation as God is enough to punish him . If he is a true Prophet of God Almighty ,then think , how will u face God on the final day for spreading such hatread about God’s messenger ?

I request you to read the biography of the last Prophet .If u do , then u will know that non-Muslims offer him money , power , women everything a man can ask for in exchange of stop preaching of oneness of God.

Prophet denied that & faced a boycott that lasted for 3 years . He with his family members & few followers almost starved to death . Still , he did not compromise . Also , in that time , a man was allowed to marry as many as he wished. Solomon (pbuh) had 1000 wives , remember ? So , why he needed to rape anyone ? Aisha (pbuh) was her legal wife . We are not allowed to express hatred against a legal marriage approved by God Almighty.

 

[chrisse]

**
If Muhammed (pbuh) is a fake Prophet , you don’t have to bring nasty allegation as God is enough to punish him . If he is a true Prophet of God Almighty ,then think , how will u face God on the final day for spreading such hatread about God’s messenger ?

I request you to read the biography of the last Prophet .If u do , then u will know that non-Muslims offer him money , power , women everything a man can ask for in exchange of stop preaching of oneness of God.

Prophet denied that & faced a boycott that lasted for 3 years . He with his family members & few followers almost starved to death . Still , he did not compromise . Also , in that time , a man was allowed to marry as many as he wished. Solomon (pbuh) had 1000 wives , remember ? So , why he needed to rape anyone ? Aisha (pbuh) was her legal wife . We are not allowed to express hatred against a legal marriage approved by God Almighty.**
King Soloman was around 10th Century BC, mohammet was 7th Century AC … hardly “in that time”.

Aisha’s father was horrified when mohammet demanded he hand Aisha over for marriage at 6. It was clear that it was not the accepted cultural norm at all.

Further, provide independent sources for your claims about cultural practices. They were not as widespread as you claim. Even the pagan Romans at Christ’s time were expected to wait until the girl first menstruated, usually 12 or later. So, mohammet some 600 years later was not doing so because of cultural practice at all - he had clear paedophilic tendencies - he dreamed of her as a baby as his wife. Sick, sick, demented immoral man that mohammet was.

As for your claim that it was approved by God Almighty, no it was approved by mohammet’s imaginery paedophile friend, allah.