Ask about Islam

[Muslim_Woman]

Salaam/peace

No authority in Islam? What a pity! …

The Immunity

They have taken their doctors of law and their monks for lords besides God,

and (also) the Messiah son of Marium and they were enjoined that they should serve one God only,

there is no god but He;

far from His glory be what they set up (with Him).

[9.31]

 

[reggieM]

They have taken their doctors of law and their monks for lords besides God,

That’s very good evidence about how confused the text really is.

 

[Muslim_Woman]

Salaam/peace

…You have yet to answer my question:

Why didn’t God send the Qur’an during the time of Musa? …If you don’t know the answer, just say so.

answered already. Last holy book came to the last Prophet (p).

 

[cathopologist]

They have taken their doctors of law and their monks for lords besides God

Muslim Woman, i have never been to England, but i know when the English folks for example, call the royalty “lords”, it does not mean they are worshiping them. This is what “lord” means from dictionary.com:

lord
1.a person who has authority, control, or power over others; a master, chief, or ruler. 2.a person who exercises authority from property rights; an owner of land, houses, etc. 3.a person who is a leader or has great influence in a chosen profession: the great lords of banking. 4.a feudal superior; the proprietor of a manor. 5.a titled nobleman or peer; a person whose ordinary appellation contains by courtesy the title Lord or some higher title. 6.Lords, the Lords Spiritual and Lords Temporal comprising the House of Lords. 7.(initial capital letterhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.png) (in Britain) a.**the title of certain high officials (used with some other title, name, or the like): Lord Mayor of London. ** b.*the formally polite title of a bishop: Lord Bishop of Durham. c.the title informally substituted for marquis, earl, viscount, etc., as in the use of *Lord KitchenerEarl Kitchener. for 8.(initial capital letterhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.png) the Supreme Being; God; Jehovah. 9.(initial capital letterhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.png) the Savior, Jesus Christ. 10.Astrology. a planet having dominating influence.

If you ignore what “lord(s)” means *even *from the dictionary, then its true as they say…Muslims are indeed beyond hope.

 

[cathopologist]

answered already. Last holy book came to the last Prophet (p).

**That is not an answer and you know it.

Why didn’t God send the Qur’an during the time of Musa? Why wait for Mohammad’s birth? Musa had the Torah, but it wasn’t the Qur’an, since in Islam, Musa was born a Muslim. Unless of course, Islam also claims the Taurat as its own?**

 

[Muslim_Woman]

Salaam/peace

Islam has no monopoly of religion or of God.

useful link :

**Islam, the Religion of all the Prophets **

Islam began with the first man, Adam , when he submitted himself to God.

Therefore, the word “Islam” simply means Submission to God.

The word also means Peace; and so, as the name of the Religion of God, it implies the peace that we can attain by submitting to God.

All the Prophets of God, from Adam the first Prophet to Muhammad (peace be upon him) the Last Prophet, preached Islam, which is the Religion Allah has destined for mankind.

Therefore, the right name of the Religion of Abraham, Moses, David, Jesus and Muhammad (peace be on them all) as well as of hundreds of other prophets of God (whose names we do not know) is Islam.

But the followers of the earlier prophets have used other names for their respective religions and so we have the name Judaism (after the tribe of Judah) for the religion of Moses, and Christianity (after Jesus Christ) for the religion of Jesus.

**Only the followers of Muhammad (peace be upon him) use the right name for the religion of God. **

{ added by Muslim Woman: a related verse from the final holy book of God Almighty )

"This day have I perfected your religion for you and completed My favor upon you and have **chosen for you Islam as your religion **]

For this reason, the word ‘Islam’ today is used practically for the religion taught by Muhammad (peace be upon him) alone.

islamforall.net/how%20islam%20began.htm

 

[Angelos]

Salaam/peace

The Immunity

They have taken their doctors of law and their monks for lords besides God,

and (also) the Messiah son of Marium and they were enjoined that they should serve one God only,

there is no god but He;

far from His glory be what they set up (with Him).

[9.31]

As a matter of contradiction, the Koran endorses the authority of Jewish religious leaders:

Surah 5:44
Lo! We did reveal the Torah, wherein is guidance and a light, by which the prophets who surrendered (unto Allah) judged the Jews, and the rabbis and the priests (judged) by such of Allah’s Scripture as they were bidden to observe, and thereunto were they witnesses.

Uncanny parallelism the authors of the Koran draw between God’s prophets and rabbis/priests with regard to judging the people!

More, the Koran asks those rabbis and priests to take action and guide people in accordance with their religious authority:

Surah 5:63
Why do not the rabbis and the priests forbid their evil-speaking and their devouring of illicit gain ? Verily evil is their handiwork.

Strikingly, another verse in the same Surah claims that Christians are close in affection to Muslims because of their clergy:

Surah 5:82
Thou wilt find the most vehement of mankind in hostility to those who believe (to be) the Jews and the idolaters. And thou wilt find the nearest of them in affection to those who believe (to be) those who say: Lo! We are Christians. That is because there are among them priests and monks, and because they are not proud.

 

[planten]

You are somehow closing your nice eyes to the fact that some Christians allegedly do terrible things DESPITE what the New Testament teaches them whereas Muslims actually do terrible things BECAUSE of what their Koran teaches them.

** That is wrong. The Muslims are just as misled as your people, perhaps less. You cannot blame the Muslims for anything and disown your great number of so-called christians.

If I believe you then we may have to look for a proper christian in the world and we may not find one. Do you think that the christians, because they are not doing as per religion, they are alright and good. You have never been able to find a fault or mistake in the Quran.

So it is better for you also to forget any bad thing that the Muslims may be doing due to misinterpretting the Quran. It is not the fault of the religion. If you will still insist that it is the fault in the Islam then I will also insist that the christians are also doing everything according to their religion as their sacred duty and it is the church which is teaching and preaching them to do all the bad things that they are doing.**

 

[planten]

No authority in Islam? What a pity! This is why no Muslim knows who tells the truth. LOL

** Why do you talk about authority?. I am talking about Racism. About a family line or class of people. A chosen class of people. Do you support them?

We have a standard by which we can find the truth or falsehood. We do not need a Pope or a Padre.**

 

[Angelos]

** Why do you talk about authority?. I am talking about Racism. About a family line or class of people. A chosen class of people. Do you support them?

We have a standard by which we can find the truth or falsehood. We do not need a Pope or a Padre.**

The clergy in Christianity is far from the ideology of racism.

What about prophets (chosen people)? What about Israel (a chosen nation) ? Your scripture contends that God chose certain tribes and preferred them to the others (Surah 3:33). Dear planten, you have set your religion on fire

What is your standard by which you can find the truth?

 

[dzheremi]

That is wrong. The Muslims are just as misled as your people, perhaps less. You cannot blame the Muslims for anything and disown your great number of so-called christians.

Actually, we CAN condemn what the Muslims do and also what misled Christians do. However, as another poster pointed out, the difference between the two communities is that Christians who act badly do so against the precepts of their religion, while the Muslims who wreck havoc in the world do so in support of the precepts of their religion.

If I believe you then we may have to look for a proper christian in the world and we may not find one.

Wrong. We may find many, though perhaps not as many as we should. YOU will not recognize any, because you don’t understand even the basics of Christianity, because the Quran has prevented you from understanding what it is really about.

Do you think that the christians, because they are not doing as per religion, they are alright and good.

Who is saying this? What are you talking about?

You have never been able to find a fault or mistake in the Quran.

Even if we discard our disagreement with its social/legalistic teachings, we can still find many, many mistakes in the Quran. I suggest you go to the thread about supposed “scientific miracles” of the Quran, in which you will find many examples of Quranic mistakes. Surely the sun does NOT set in a muddy spring, sperm is NOT made between the loins and the ribs, etc.

So it is better for you also to forget any bad thing that the Muslims may be doing due to misinterpretting the Quran.

I will forget them when they themselves forget forever every single verse in the Quran that enjoins them to fight in the cause of Allah and the prophet, to kill or humiliate the unbelievers, to elevate the Arab race above all others, etc. They might have a very short Quran to follow in that case, but it will be better for all humanity. Then we can live in true peace, not the Islamic “peace” that rests on the subjugation of Muslims and non-Muslims alike to the tyranny of the Quran and the violent spectre of its long dead prophet.

It is not the fault of the religion.

Yes it is. The Quran itself TELLS the violent Muslims to do the things they do, and since there’s no authority in Islam to interpet difinitively what the violent verses are saying, it’s the fault of Islam both in its scripture and in its structure. It is absolutely the fault of Islam.

If you will still insist that it is the fault in the Islam then I will also insist that the christians are also doing everything according to their religion as their sacred duty and it is the church which is teaching and preaching them to do all the bad things that they are doing.

You’ll insist that anyway, as you have many times before, so who cares. It doesn’t really matter. The actions of the violent Muslims speak for Islam and yet you worry about Christians drinking or having extra-marital affairs. Physician, heal thyself!

 

[cathopologist]

Islam began with the first man, Adam , when he submitted himself to God…

Therefore, the word “Islam” simply means Submission to God.

This day have I perfected your religion for you and completed My favor upon you and have **chosen for you Islam as your religion **

For this reason, the word ‘Islam’ today is used practically for the religion taught by Muhammad (peace be upon him) alone.

islamforall.net/how%20islam%20began.htm

All religions teaches its adherents to submit themselves to God. Polytheist or Monotheist. Its not a “new” understanding. Its as old as time itself. Islam has no monopoly over other religions and cannot claim ownership of God.

Now please answer my question:
**Why didn’t God send the Qur’an during the time of Musa? Why wait for Mohammad’s birth? Musa had the Torah, but it wasn’t the Qur’an, since in Islam, Musa was born a Muslim. Unless of course, Islam also claims the Taurat as its own?

If you really are a woman of your words, stick to your original intents. You said you will answer questions non-Muslims have. You’re avoiding my question.
**

 

[famdigy]

**Why didn’t God send the Qur’an during the time of Musa? Why wait for Mohammad’s birth? **

Because Muhammad (s) came into existance before Musa (a). His birth as we know it was in 570AD. As the qur’an states “They know only what is aparent of the life of the world”. But his existance before bith is another story all together.

Narrated Muhammad ibn Ziyad:
Ibn Mahran asked Abdullah ibn Abbas about the meaning of the the verses "And most surely we are they who draw themselves out in ranks, And we are most surely they who declare the glory (of Allah). Qur’an 37:165-166

Ibn Abbas says, we were in the company of the messenger of Allah (s) and Ali ibn Abi talib approached, when the messenger saw him a smile appeard on his face and he said “greetings to the one whome God created before his father Adam (as) by 40,000 years”
Ibn Abbas asks, Oh messenger of Allah, is it possible the son to be before the father? The messenger answered Yes, Allah created me and Ali before creating Adam by this length of time (40,000 years).

He created devine light and split it into two. Created me from one half and Ali from the other half before creating anything else. Thus the light of all the creations is from my and Alis light.

Then He placed us to the left of the throne. Then He created the angels. So we declared His glory then the angels also declared his glory. We declared His greatness then the angels also declared His greatness.

This (action of praising God) was from my and Ali’s teaching.

It was in God’s knowledge that the angels would learn from us how to praise and glorify him, and everything else that praises God is from our teaching.

It is also in God’s knowledge that He would not punish with the fire those who love me and Ali. And he would not allow into heaven those who hate me and Ali.

Biharul Anwar Vol.36 Chapter 8 Hadith #18

They taught us how to worship our Lord and for this it is of every ones duty, Angels, prophets, Moses and Jesus (as) included to celebrate the memory of the Prophet Muhammad (s).

God decided the matter to take place in this order, the last and final message to be delivered by the first and greatest creation.

 

[dzheremi]

Hahahahaha. Is Islam just an Arab supremacist’s version of Mormonism? I’m beginning to think it is.

Muhammad is pre-existent? Hahahahaha. And you guys still claim to be monotheists, when Muhammad is basically saying “before Abraham was, I AM”. What a bunch of blasphemy and B.S.

 

[Nicolas]

famdigy only represents Shias (only 10%)

All he said is ridiculous

 

[dzheremi]

Ah. I did not see his signature until after you posted your reply, Nicholas. My sincere apologies to the majority of Muslims, who from your reply I surmise rightly do not believe such nonsense.

 

[famdigy]

Hahahahaha. Is Islam just an Arab supremacist’s version of Mormonism? I’m beginning to think it is.

Muhammad is pre-existent? Hahahahaha. And you guys still claim to be monotheists, when Muhammad is basically saying “before Abraham was, I AM”. What a bunch of blasphemy and B.S.

You believe Jesus is pre-existent so whast the problem here? And what’s more blasphemy than to take a man and elevate him to the status of a god as you have done with Jesus (a)

 

[famdigy]

famdigy only represents Shias (only 10%)
All he said is ridiculous

what is ridiculous is your attempt to disprove something by showing how many people think its true. But no matter how many people believe something, that doesn’t make it any more true or false.

 

[dzheremi]

You believe Jesus is pre-existent so whast the problem here?

Indeed I do, because Jesus is God. He is eternal and uncreated. “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” Jesus is the Word (Logos).

And what’s more blasphemy than to take a man and elevate him to the status of a god as you have done with Jesus (a)

OK, so saying the same of Muhammad as you have just done is what, exactly?

Look, I’m not saying you can’t believe whatever you want about Muhammad, I’m just saying that it strikes me as incredibly hypocritical that Muslims emphasize Muhammad’s humanity (as with the idea that he was illiterate as proof of the “miraculous” of the Quran) when they feel a need to “out-monotheiscize” the other Abrahamic faiths, but ascribe all manner of Godly attributes to him when trying to bolster his claims of prophethood. You cannot have it both ways.

This is why I have problems with the Islamic claim of “pure” monotheism, and the related claim that Christians are somehow not monotheists: In ascribing all that you do to Muhammad, you make him God in everything but name. Furthermore, in light of this hadith and your belief in it, your claim that Christians are wrong to have believed Jesus’ claim that “before Abraham was, I AM” (John 8:58) rings incredibly hollow. Is it that you’re just upset that we believe Jesus over Muhammad? Because clearly the substance of your argument against us is obliterated when your prophet says essentially the same thing about himself and you believe that. Either you fall into the same trap your prophet tried to set for Christians (but failed when he stepped into it with the statement he made in that hadith), or Jesus’ claim is entirely valid, in which case: why do you reject it in favor of Muhammad’s?

 

[famdigy]

Indeed I do, because Jesus is God. He is eternal and uncreated. “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” Jesus is the Word (Logos).

please explain to me how exactly is it we are ascribing a godly attribute to him by saying he was God’s first creation. How did you arrive at the conclusion that God’s first creation shares his attributes? By the way this is not an exclusivly shia view, you can find the sunni counterpart to this hadith as follows:

“Me and Ali were rays of light in God’s presence before the creation of Adam by 14,000 years. When Adam was created, God split the ray into two parts, a portion me, and the other Ali.”

Source: Virtues of the Companions, by Ahmad ibn Hanbal vol.3 page 109, hadith #1095

I don’t have a problem with Jesus being before Adam or Abraham, I simply can’t deny or confirm that as I don’t havn’t read anything about it from islamic sources.

Can you explain to me the biblical passage “In the begining there was the word”, how can that be since God does not have a begining. He always existed yet this passage suggests that there was a starting point for his existance “In the begining”. This is a human logical falacy and is not from God as He does not have a begining.

Tell me about the point before “the begining”