Ask an atheist a few questions.

[Exalt]

There’s another “I am an atheist” thread down there and I thought I would add a similiar one. I’ll take 3 or 4 questions to start with and I suppose we can all start a conversation that way.

Anyway, as a gay, 21 year old atheist who has no special love for religion, I’m eager to hear what you have to ask!

EDIT: Just to make one thing clear. I define “atheist” as someone who lacks a belief in god(s).

 

[Valke2]

Are/were your parents religious?

 

[Tietjen]

There’s another “I am an atheist” thread down there and I thought I would add a similiar one. I’ll take 3 or 4 questions to start with and I suppose we can all start a conversation that way.

Anyway, as a gay, 21 year old atheist who has no special love for religion, I’m eager to hear what you have to ask!

EDIT: Just to make one thing clear. I define “atheist” as someone who lacks a belief in god(s).

Not that I object to your being here in the slightest, but if you have “no special love for religion” and lack “a belief in God” why are you here? Why have you been here for almost 4 years? What is your intention? I ask because it would be as if I, some one who has no interest in cars, were to join a car forum. Moreover, as I said at the beginning of my reply, I am not suggesting that you go away; it is just that I have always wondered why it is people who CLAIM to be atheists are so often drawn to God through media such as “forums.” God bless.

 

[justinthemartyr]

Do you think that your being homosexual(attracted to the same sex) is one reason why you might keep God at arms length? I ask because I think that is why I kept God at arms length, in order to justify my way of living and doing what I wanted with no moral boundary. After not finding true peace or happiness anywhere else(men, drugs, alcohol, materialism etc) I knew that there had to be something more to life than this.

I came to know Christ in 1993 and the desire to drink, drug, and homosexuality was taken from me. This is just my experience. I am happily married with 3 children.

I am interested in your thoughts, including the other two questions asked of you by the other members.

I believe that one can know God exists, and yet not choose to serve this God. This would be a form of agnosticism. Belief means reliance, not defiance. Therefore you can know God (higher power) exists, and choose not to rely on Him. Usually for fear of feling less than worthy, or judged. This is no different than when i would not have relationships with my parents or others in authority, or others I am supposed to respect, because I felt like they would not love me as a homosexual.

Does “agnostic” fit you better, than the term “athiest”?

I do find it odd that you would be here for four years if you were not seeking deeper answers to life.

peace, Justin

 

[Righteousone]

There’s another “I am an atheist” thread down there and I thought I would add a similiar one. I’ll take 3 or 4 questions to start with and I suppose we can all start a conversation that way.

Anyway, as a gay, 21 year old atheist who has no special love for religion, I’m eager to hear what you have to ask!

EDIT: Just to make one thing clear. I define “atheist” as someone who lacks a belief in god(s).

Then why are you here? Is your soul restless?

 

[Skavau]

justinthemartyr:

I believe that one can know God exists, and yet not choose to serve this God. This would be a form of agnosticism.

No.

That would be denial.

 

[Bubble]

A religion is the moral (or immoral) code that guides your thoughts and actions. Religion can exclude or include any number of gods. Religion is the guiding force behind the decisions you make in life. According to my old sociology professor, nobody can NOT have a religion. Athiesm is a religion.

Did your parents raise you as an athiest? If not, what internal and/or external events made you turn to the religion of athiesm?

 

[Skavau]

A religion is a set of beliefs to live by. Nobody can NOT have religion.

Nonsense. Your definition negates the definition of religion to ‘lifestyle’.

Bubble:

Athiesm is a religion.

This is false even by your own definition of religion. Atheism is not a ‘set of beliefs to live by’ and nor is it even a ‘belief’.

 

[Bubble]

Nonsense. Your definition negates the definition of religion to ‘lifestyle’.

This is false even by your own definition of religion. Atheism is not a ‘set of beliefs to live by’ and nor is it even a ‘belief’.

The belief that there is no god is a belief.

Believing that there is no god can influence a person’s behavior to the same degree that believing in god can influence a person – therefore, it is a religion.

 

[Skavau]

The belief that there is no god is a belief.

Correct.

But not all atheists believe that there is no God and the belief that there is no God is also not a lifestyle.

Bubble:

Believing that there is no god can influence a person’s behavior to the same degree that believing in god can influence a person – therefore, it is a religion.

Playing golf can influence a person’s behaviour to the same degree that not playing golf can influence a person – therefore, it is a religion. Do you see the flaw?

Simply believing in a God is not a religion in and of itself.
Simply disbelieving in a God is also not a religion in and of itself.

 

[Bubble]

Correct.

But not all atheists believe that there is no God and the belief that there is no God is also not a lifestyle.

Playing golf can influence a person’s behaviour to the same degree that not playing golf can influence a person – therefore, it is a religion. Do you see the flaw?

Simply believing in a God is not a religion in and of itself.
Simply disbelieving in a God is also not a religion in and of itself.

You are confusing the the term “religion” with the term “denomination”, thinking of it strictly as the worshipping of god in a particular way.

Religion, however, can also exclude any reference to worship or gods. Religion can simply be personal beliefs or values: a set of strongly-held beliefs, values, or attitudes. In this sense Communism, Humanitarism and even Athiesm become religions.

Whether athiests admit it or not, the focus of Athiesm is god. While Christians spend their lives focusing on the existence of God, self-proclaimed athiests focus on the absence of God. Like Christians, some are more zealous about it than others.

BTW, I am not the only person that holds this view. The federal court of WI, for instance, has ruled that Atheism is a religion.

The 7th Circuit Court of Appeals ruled that prison officials erred because they “did not treat atheism as a ‘religion.’” The court said, “Atheism is [the inmate’s] religion, and the group that he wanted to start was religious in nature even though it expressly rejects a belief in a supreme being.” . . .

The Supreme Court has said that a religion need not be based on a belief in the existence of a supreme being. In the 1961 case of Torcaso v. Watkins, the Court described “secular humanism” as a religion.

media.afa.net/newdesign/printver2.asp?id=3232

Most atheists and Christians vehemently deny that atheism is a religion . . . it’s something that they actually agree on. Interesting enough, the decision of the court (above) had both sides in a tizzy.

Anyway, I don’t want to bog down this thread with your opinion vs. my opinion on what constitutes a religion. Feel free to think it’s not a religion–and know that you’re not alone. But, I hold the view that it is a religion and I’m not alone either.

Peace.

 

[Skavau]

Bubble:

Religion, however, can also exclude any reference to worship or gods. Religion can simply be personal beliefs or values: a set of strongly-held beliefs, values, or attitudes. In this sense Communism, Humanitarism and even Athiesm become religions.

Which is exactly why I think your definition of religion is arbitrary. You define religion as a ‘set of beliefs’ essentially (of which Atheism is at most a single belief, at at least not a belief at all).

Bubble:

Whether athiests admit it or not, the focus of Athiesm is god.

Why would an Atheist ever deny it? I certainly don’t. The focus of Atheism is God because that is all Atheism by definition concerns itself with.

Bubble:

BTW, I am not the only person that holds this view. The federal court of WI, for instance, has ruled that Atheism is a religion.

Atheism is not a coherent ideology, or even anything more than at best a belief. There is no Atheist manifesto, doctrine, scripture or guidance. We just refer to people who do not believe in God as ‘Atheists’.

It is on equal measure as disbelieving in Thor. We do not have a name for people who disbelieve in Thor though, because there is no interest in Thor.

The 7th Circuit Court of Appeals ruled that prison officials erred because they “did not treat atheism as a ‘religion.’” The court said, “Atheism is [the inmate’s] religion, and the group that he wanted to start was religious in nature even though it expressly rejects a belief in a supreme being.”

Can the Court not see a vital flaw here? An inmate wanted to start a group which was ‘religious in nature’. I am going to wager here and assume this inmate advocate some sort of coherent ideology or group of like-minded individuals. That is beyond Atheism.

 

[Exalt]

Are/were your parents religious?

Yes, they are and have been my entire life.

My mother was raised Baptist. She converted to Lutheranism in college. She met my dad and converted to Catholicism in the months before they got married. She is still Catholic today, of the typical suburban parish sort.

My father was raised Catholic. As far as I know, he has maintained the same level of religiousity throughout his life. It continues today.

They both havn’t missed more than a day or two at mass every weekend since I’ve been born.

 

[Exalt]

Not that I object to your being here in the slightest, but if you have “no special love for religion” and lack “a belief in God” why are you here? Why have you been here for almost 4 years? What is your intention? I ask because it would be as if I, some one who has no interest in cars, were to join a car forum. Moreover, as I said at the beginning of my reply, I am not suggesting that you go away; it is just that I have always wondered why it is people who CLAIM to be atheists are so often drawn to God through media such as “forums.” God bless.

I didn’t say I wasn’t interested in religion. On the contrary, I’m currently in the last semester of college as a religious studies major. I’ve taken lots of classes, many on various aspects of Catholicism, in fact.

I’m here because religion fascinates me. Catholicism, perhaps because it was the religion I was raised to believe, or because the religious studies program I’m in tends to focus on Catholicism more than other religions, particularly interests me. You’ll find I tend to post in forums about the separation of Church and State and gay rights issues - those issues interest me as well. Though I do tend to randomly post in other areas as well.

 

[kevjones]

Hello Exalt.

Nice to see you pull this back on topic and being very respectful and open. I appreciate the opportunity to ask an atheist a question or two. Like you (though reverse obviously), your beliefs interest me.

I guess my question would be:
Why do you not believe in (a) god/s or higher power? Or, if a different perspective will work, why do you believe the majority of the worlds population (historically and present day) does believe in a god or gods?

As you appear very educated and well spoken, I would appreciate a better response than “you can’t prove he/they exist” or “most people just need purpose”. As most believers have a well founded faith, I assume you have thought much and establish a strong basis for your views.

Thank you again for this opportunity. I look forward to your response.

 

[Exalt]

Do you think that your being homosexual(attracted to the same sex) is one reason why you might keep God at arms length? I ask because I think that is why I kept God at arms length, in order to justify my way of living and doing what I wanted with no moral boundary. After not finding true peace or happiness anywhere else(men, drugs, alcohol, materialism etc) I knew that there had to be something more to life than this.

That assumes I believe in God… But yes, one of the reasons I don’t believe in God is because I don’t find the Church’s rejection of homosexuality to be reasonable. And yes, I think a part of that is because I do want to have a relationship with another man and don’t see anything wrong with it.

I came to know Christ in 1993 and the desire to drink, drug, and homosexuality was taken from me. This is just my experience. I am happily married with 3 children.

Thank you for sharing your experience.

I am interested in your thoughts, including the other two questions asked of you by the other members.

I believe that one can know God exists, and yet not choose to serve this God. This would be a form of agnosticism.

Uh. If someone “knows” God exist, they aren’t agnostic. I’ll quote the person who *invented *the term, Thomas Henry Huxley:

When I reached intellectual maturity, and began to ask myself whether I was an atheist, a theist or a pantheist, a materialist or an idealist, a Christian or a freethinker, I found that the more I learned and reflected, the less ready was the answer. The one thing on which most of these good people were agreed was the one thing in which I differed from them. They were quite sure they had attained a certain ‘gnosis’ — had more or less successfully, solved the problem of existence; while I was quite sure that I had not, and had a pretty strong conviction that the problem was insoluble.

This was my situation when I had the good fortune to find a place among the members of that remarkable confraternity of antagonists, the Metaphysical Society. Every variety of philosophical and theological opinion was represented there; most of my colleagues were ‘-ists’ of one sort or another; and I, the man without a rag of a belief to cover himself with, could not fail to have some of the uneasy feelings which must have beset the historical fox when, after leaving the trap in which his tail remained, he presented himself to his normally elongated companions. So I took thought, and invented what I conceived to be the appropriate title of ‘agnostic.’ It came into my head as suggestively antithetic to the ‘gnostic’ of Church history, who professed to know so much about the very things of which I was ignorant. To my great satisfaction the term took.

Does “agnostic” fit you better, than the term “athiest”?

*Not *in the kind of “agnosticism” you talk about, which you said they “know” God exists but don’t rely on him.

But, I’ll clarify my position on my atheism anyway: I’m someone who holds no belief in God. My belief in his existance is sort of like my belief in an invisible, undetectable reindeer flying over my head. I guess it *could *be real somehow. But I wouldn’t really know unless it became univisible. And until it does, I’m not going to believe in it.

 

[Exalt]

Then why are you here? Is your soul restless?

The answer to the first question is this: Religion interests me. Religious people interest me. I’ve majored in the study of it, actually.

I don’t really believe in a soul either, by the way.

 

[Exalt]

A religion is the moral (or immoral) code that guides your thoughts and actions. Religion can exclude or include any number of gods. Religion is the guiding force behind the decisions you make in life. According to my old sociology professor, nobody can NOT have a religion. Athiesm is a religion.

The defination of “religion” is hotly debated. The origin of the word itself is the Latin religio, which is formed from other terms meaning “binding” or “connection” (Think “ligament”).

In *your *defination, I would be religious. I do have a moral code. I do have positions on things. And I think that there is a guiding force behind my decisions - but I doubt that it’s supernatural.

And because I doubt that it’s supernatural, I think I’ve separated myself from the mainstream idea of religion.

Did your parents raise you as an athiest? If not, what internal and/or external events made you turn to the religion of athiesm?

No, I was raised to be Catholic. I was Catholic until about two years ago, when I rejected the faith on the grounds that a loving, caring, fatherly person ought to be in close contact with his children. Catholicism said God was like that today, but I found that God was just as likely to answer a prayer as my cat. Actually, my cat shows more love for me than God does.

I suppose I could believe in a non-personal, non-loving, non-fatherly God. But I don’t really see a reason to. It would be like believing in a oddly shaped rock on the planet Jupiter. I guess it could be there, but it doesn’t really effect me that much. So why claim a belief in it?

 

[Exalt]

Hello Exalt.

Nice to see you pull this back on topic and being very respectful and open. I appreciate the opportunity to ask an atheist a question or two. Like you (though reverse obviously), your beliefs interest me.

I guess my question would be:
Why do you not believe in (a) god/s or higher power?

I don’t see enough evidence, really. Also, for a longer explaination, see my previous post.

Or, if a different perspective will work, why do you believe the majority of the worlds population (historically and present day) does believe in a god or gods?

That is a very good question. I’m not sure. Perhaps it started with a complete inability to explain why the world existed. Indeed, alot of the oldest literature we have focuses a great deal on the creation of the world.

Some have suggested (I think it was in Dawkin’s book, or perhaps it was Sam Harris’) that it might have started with human beings not understanding that their own thoughts came from themselves! That’s a terrible way of expressing that viewpoint, but I think it’s interesting, and make some sense. I know when I was religious having alot of trouble telling between thoughts that were my own and thoughts that came from God.

As far as why religion persists today, I think it’s a direct result of parents teaching their children. I don’t know of many children who would say that their parents are wrong about thier opinions on God. Those children grow up and pass on that belief. Why don’t these children give up those beliefs? Well,

1. It’s socially expected.
2. It’s required for many important rituals (marriage and funerals come to mind)
3. Most people don’t take thier religious beliefs all that seriously. Belief in God has as much a personal impact on those people’s lives as thier belief in the local Red Lobster.

Now, I’ve basically answered your question by minimalizing the idea that “the majority of the worlds population does believe in a god or gods”. I think the belief of the majority is a very bland belief of the style above. Why is it like that? Well, God doesn’t really have a very active presence in the world (if he exists). He doesn’t talk much anymore. No prophets. No second coming (It’s now been *20 centuries *since the New Testament writers believed the second coming was going to happen, by the way). A handful of miraculous events spread across various religions isn’t enough to inspire the world to high levels of religiousity and a robust belief in God.

However, it is interesting to note the growing population that claims they have no belief in God. Getting good surveys on the religious beliefs of people across the world today is very difficult, but some have attempted to come up with some numbers, and they’re interesting. Phil Zuckerman wrote a chapter in The Cambridge Companion to Atheism titled “Atheism: Contemporary Numbers and Patterns” about rates and styles of atheism and agnosticism across the world. Here’s a link:

adherents.com/largecom/com_atheist.html

As you appear very educated and well spoken, I would appreciate a better response than “you can’t prove he/they exist” or “most people just need purpose”. As most believers have a well founded faith, I assume you have thought much and establish a strong basis for your views.

Do you have any numbers on religiousity? I mean, surely there are many people who say they belong to such-and-such a religion, but how many are just lukewarm Catholics or Buddhists or whatever. Personally, I know countless Catholics who are like that.

Thank you again for this opportunity. I look forward to your response.

Likewise. =)

 

[Bubble]

. I was Catholic until about two years ago, when I rejected the faith on the grounds that a loving, caring, fatherly person ought to be in close contact with his children. Catholicism said God was like that today, but I found that God was just as likely to answer a prayer as my cat. Actually, my cat shows more love for me than God does.

From your explanation, it seems that you have based your athiesm on lack of proof that god loves you and hears your prayers. Because of the lack of answered prayers and feelings of love, you have not simply chosen to reject serving god, you have rejected the idea that there is a god at all. This brings up more questions.

Why have you come to the conclusion, that if there is a god, that he must be a loving, caring, fatherly kind of god? Why do you believe a god must hear and answer your prayers? Isn’t it possible that a divine creator might be an indifferent god?

It seems strange that you would reject the idea of a divine being simply because he doesn’t fit the stereo-typical Christian idea of God.

Sorry, I have more questions.

If you had a spiritual-like experience, where you felt the presence of God, and from this experience you came to believe that God is loving, caring, fatherly god, do you think that you would accept the faith?