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lelinator
Guest
Yes, exactly.
How are we to differentiate what would happen in a system devoid of God, as opposed to a system with God?
Given as how the two systems would produce results that are indistinguishable from each other.
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How are we to differentiate what would happen in a system devoid of God, as opposed to a system with God?
Given as how the two systems would produce results that are indistinguishable from each other.
J
jzea1992
Guest
How do you stay happy? I’d be miserable and empty without God. It’s already hard enough as is. Then again maybe If I didn’t believe in God I wouldn’t know any better and not have guilt, idk. Been doing a lot of thinking lately.
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PickyPicky
Guest
Nope. Doesn’t work that way, I’m afraid. Atheists have all the usual human emotions and reactions.
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HerCrazierHalf
Guest
Wait, we don’t get to plunder and pillage? Aww man.
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Neithan
Guest
This is a metaphysical error common in [popular] atheist rhetoric: there is ontological equivocation in the language: “God” is not the same as “gods” if we are considering the absolute source of anything natural, metaphysically or ethically, as opposed to hypothetical preternatural beings. As a theist, I accept existential teleology and therefore an objective ground for human behaviour. Atheism either denies or is skeptical about this. Given the persistence and prevalence of this subtle confusion, Nietzsche’s madman would still be too early for our time, because the consequences of a godless world are not self-evident.
Why does that “count” if my opinion is different? Is there any such thing as guilt, shame and justice for people, or are we simply describing and imposing our preferences?
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TotusTuusForever
Guest
This is random, but I have been binge watching “I survived: Beyond and Back” (from A&E) online and there are literally three seasons of people who have died and say there is definitely something after death. I don’t know what the Catholic Church says about NDEs but it definitely gets you thinking. Just thought I’d share.
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stpurl
Guest
Ah. So you don’t postulate God. You postulate a kind of parallel universe idea yet the universes co-exist. Universe A contains God, universe B does not, yet they exist simultaneously.
If God exists, He does not exist in one universe for one group of people. He didn’t create one universe where He exists and one where He does. There is simply no possibility for there to be a scenario where “God” is a factor in ‘one system’ and "mere chance’ in another.
If God exists, He does not exist in one universe for one group of people. He didn’t create one universe where He exists and one where He does. There is simply no possibility for there to be a scenario where “God” is a factor in ‘one system’ and "mere chance’ in another.
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Wozza
Guest
I have to cancel my weekend. Durn it…PickyPicky:
Wait, we don’t get to plunder and pillage? Aww man.
L
lelinator
Guest
And since prayer appears to be ineffective at best, it would seem that we’re living in a system with no God. Unless you wish to argue that God simply wants prayer to appear to be ineffective, so as to mislead the unfaithful. What a wily God we must be dealing with.
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stpurl
Guest
Prayer hasn’t been ‘effective’ for you personally? Between you and God.
Extrapolating from that wild premises and surmises that prayer is ‘ineffective’ and somehow that proves ‘no God’ . . .well, that’s just sloppy ‘reasoning’ (or some facsimile thereof).
I enjoyed hearing the OP (who not only has the saving grace of a sense of humor, not to be confused with a sense of snark and derision, but also a willingness to listen). If you’re an atheist, I’d suggest since you obviously aren’t willing to listen to ‘theists’ except to sneer, that you try listening to him. Open-mindedness instead of closed intolerance is so much more civilized. . .
Muting thread. I’d much rather cast pearls into my jewelbox if you get my drift.
Extrapolating from that wild premises and surmises that prayer is ‘ineffective’ and somehow that proves ‘no God’ . . .well, that’s just sloppy ‘reasoning’ (or some facsimile thereof).
I enjoyed hearing the OP (who not only has the saving grace of a sense of humor, not to be confused with a sense of snark and derision, but also a willingness to listen). If you’re an atheist, I’d suggest since you obviously aren’t willing to listen to ‘theists’ except to sneer, that you try listening to him. Open-mindedness instead of closed intolerance is so much more civilized. . .
Muting thread. I’d much rather cast pearls into my jewelbox if you get my drift.
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lelinator
Guest
Actually, the most comprehensive studies to date show that not only is prayer ineffective, but it’s actually detrimental to favorable outcomes. But perhaps they were praying to the wrong God. God’s can be so jealous.
Actually, I’m a Christian…SURPRISE!!!
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VanitasVanitatum
Guest
There’s a science to it.
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PickyPicky
Guest
Yes there is, although different people and different cultures may have different opinions as to what is shameful and what constitutes justice.
They measured something that is outside of creation?
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PickyPicky
Guest
Monotheistic religions believe in God; polytheistic religions believe in gods. Their ontological differences may exist as you believe, but the fact remains that God A and God B and gods c, d, and e may require different things from their followers, may urge different moralities, just as one atheist or culture may have a different morality from another.
So your question applies to believers just as much as non-believers:
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goout
Guest
Ask an atheist anything! (seriously, anything)
Ok, Why do you exist, where did you come from, why do you continue to exist, where are you going, what is the meaning and purpose of your life?
Why are you you, and not someone else (in other words…why are you a unique human being when atheism proposes accidentalism?)
If you are a merely an accidental product of your parent’s egg and sperm, and your parents had sex many times, why are there not many of you? And why are your siblings not you?
When atheism can present something beyond accidentalism I will be impressed with atheism.
Ok, Why do you exist, where did you come from, why do you continue to exist, where are you going, what is the meaning and purpose of your life?
Why are you you, and not someone else (in other words…why are you a unique human being when atheism proposes accidentalism?)
If you are a merely an accidental product of your parent’s egg and sperm, and your parents had sex many times, why are there not many of you? And why are your siblings not you?
When atheism can present something beyond accidentalism I will be impressed with atheism.
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lelinator
Guest
They measured the efficacy of prayer.
https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2006/03/prayers-dont-help-heart-surgery-patients/3/
That is not a tangible thing.
Since the efficacy is something that cannot be measured, I doubt the findings.
L
lelinator
Guest
And people wonder why I think that Catholics are delusional.
Again, to be fair, it’s not just a Catholic thing.
There’s an interesting question, can two people believe the exact same thing, and one of them be delusional, while the other one isn’t?
Because I’ve encountered Catholics who weren’t at all delusional, but I’ve encountered far more who were.
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