Ask an atheist anything! (seriously, anything)

[snarflemike]

The Christian viewpoint is that whatever universal morality might be claimed, exists because God has written his law onto every human heart. The atheistic worldview does not allow for this explanation, which leaves, what, evolution? But evolution never creates moral imperatives.

 

[Wozza]

Wozza:

Without evidence, the first is possible. But not the second.

What is the actual difference between “I no longer believe aliens have landed” and "I don’t believe aliens have landed?

The latter is a belief. The former is a lack of belief.

If you previously believed that aliens had landed then the latter is an example of you changing your mind. You would need evidence for this. The former is an example of you abondoning a belief. Possibly for the reasons you gave earlier.

We are looking for examples of the former that has no evidential (name removed by moderator)ut.

 

[casslean]

If you previously believed that aliens had landed then the latter is an example of you changing your mind. You would need evidence for this. The former is an example of you abondoning a belief. Possibly for the reasons you gave earlier.

Sorry, but I think you’re making a distinction without a difference. In either circumstance, if I were asked if I believe aliens have landed, my answer would be no.

 

[Wozza]

Wozza:

If you previously believed that aliens had landed then the latter is an example of you changing your mind. You would need evidence for this. The former is an example of you abondoning a belief. Possibly for the reasons you gave earlier.

Sorry, but I think you’re making a distinction without a difference. In either circumstance, if I were asked if I believe aliens have landed, my answer would be no.

Now change your mind. Tell me that you believe that aliens have landed. That will show that you can choose to change your beliefs.

 

[stpurl]

I did not suggest that. YOU are suggesting that; I am not.

 

[Wozza]

I did not suggest that. YOU are suggesting that; I am not.

You need to learn how to use the quote function. I have no idea to what your post refers. You can see what this refers to because it appears above what I am writing.

 

[casslean]

Now change your mind. Tell me that you believe that aliens have landed. That will show that you can choose to change your beliefs.

OK. I believe aliens have landed.

I also believe this may be the most pedantic argument on this forum.

 

[Wozza]

Wozza:

Now change your mind. Tell me that you believe that aliens have landed. That will show that you can choose to change your beliefs.

OK. I believe aliens have landed.

I’ll bear that in mind anytime you profess belief in anything else. ‘Hang on guys. Let’s see what casslean says in half an hour. She can change her mind at will without needing any pursuasion’.

Do you see what happens? If you can change your mind at will without accepting any further evidence then people must assume that there is no real basis for any of your beliefs.

What could you say in your defence? ‘Ah, this is something I really believe whatever the evidence. And this is something about which I can choose to change my beliefs without any evidence at all’.

So be it.

 

[QwertyGirl]

Choosing if something undermines your belief is not the same thing as choosing to, or not to, believe.

I change my beliefs, too, if I am presented with new and convincing evidence. It is a choice to weigh the evidence or ignore it. It isn’t a choice to believe or not believe. It is a choice to say if you believe or you don’t believe, though. That is true, but it doesn’t have much to do with what you really sincerely believe if you aren’t 100% honest with yourself and with others (not saying this is an issue for you, but recognizing it is an issue for many).

 

[Pattylt]

Now change your mind. Tell me that you believe that aliens have landed. That will show that you can choose to change your beliefs.

Let’s put some real skin in the game. Try to believe that gravity doesn’t apply to you. I predict that no matter how hard one tries to believe this, they will not test it by jumping off a building. (Please, no one take this seriously…you won’t defy gravity)

Now if we suddenly had real evidence that some people could defy gravity, I also predict that some would try it…perhaps a short building first!

I can not make myself believe something that I don’t. I tried for years and failed. It isn’t a matter of will.

 

[DarkLight]

Admittedly, some days I feel rather bitter towards Catholics too.

There’s plenty of folk who use religion to make themselves feel better about their sins.

 

[stpurl]

I responded to this from you in post 151

If you are suggesting that ‘any result at all is an answer to your prayers’ - and it certainly appears to be what you are suggesting, then that would also apply to me praying to Zeus or the FSM.

With: I did not suggest that. YOU are suggesting that; I am not.

Since I haven’t posted much (bad weather here) it would have been fairly easy to just look back at my posts.

I hope you feel better soon.

 

[adamhovey1988]

I would, but I have yet to meet any. I truly believe that most people that call themselves atheists are actually agnostic, outside of the Internet, most of the atheists I’ve met, seem to know very little about Christianity, although they profess that they came from Christian backgrounds, usually fundamentalist. I’ve found that most that people that claim to be atheist, are either agnostic or nihilist, the latter of which I’m not even sure why that is a thing. I’m not saying they don’t exist, I’m saying that I have yet to meet one, so I’m skeptical about the amount of people that claim they are atheists. Also, I don’t know what’s with polling, but the number of atheists hasn’t grown, the number of religiously unaffiliated has a grown, so I’m not sure why I don’t see atheists protesting being included in that group when they are in fact a different group, someone that believes in God but doesn’t go to church, isn’t someone that doesn’t believe that God doesn’t exist. I don’t have any questions for you, I just think you should be educated on the atrocities that atheists have done in the name of no God, like the Soviet Union and Holodomor. Like the persecution of Christians and Muslims in China, And the persecution of Christians in North Korea. Obviously, atheist countries are not the only countries where these groups are persecuted, but they are the ones that are the most vehement again them. I’m going to go on record, as saying that no I don’t believe you can be good without God

 

[Mike_from_NJ]

Would you mind providing examples, with reputable sources, of this happening?

Absolutely. Starting off with instances where a person’s character is question simply by being an atheist. One of the more glaring is the chestnut that “There are no atheists in foxholes” denying the efforts and beliefs of these brave men and women. We also have people who claim that atheists are not sincere in their religious positions, either because they haven’t researched the matter the way Christians have or that they willfully disbelieve “so they can sin”. Fulton J. Sheen said, “Atheism, nine times out of ten, is born from the womb of a bad conscience . Disbelief is born of sin, not of reason.” You have people like Steve Harvey who says that atheists don’t have a moral barometer and are idiots. That’s not to say that people will blindly follow Steve Harvey, but he surely represents a significant portion of the populace’s feelings about atheists.

Now about instances where people in power wish to force a Christian view on a populace that is not wholly Christian, or attempt to limit the power of non-Christians. For the former, my parents met at a teaching college. And on a card she had which proved she was a certified teacher was a check box that stated she was a believer in the God of Christianity and Judaism. There are many cases where the government allowed people to be fired or not hired based on being atheist. For an instance of limiting power of non-Christians, we can look at this recent ruliing where a judge in Texas upheld a law that only allows religious leaders and certain government official from officiating a wedding. It prevents people who want a Secular Celebrant from doing so, thus putting an additional burden on non-religious in that state.

 

[RaisedCatholic]

If you have this genuine conversion through the Holy Spirit then isn’t there some process that you then have to go through to accept all the various beliefs associated with this conversion?

So how do you become a Christian and then justify everything that goes with it? Is it the case that ‘I am now a Christian so therefore everything associated with it must be true’.

Excellent question. Basically, when the Holy Spirit changes & convicts your heart, your eyes are open to the truth, which you weren’t open to before. You are hearing the same thing you heard before, but before you rejected it, but now, it makes sense & you can better discern truth from falsehood. You realize that believing in the crucifixion & the resurrection of Christ has nothing to do with science, but that it’s a historical reality that is verifiable. Once this reality “clicks” for the first time, then you trust what Jesus said about everything else - that He is God, He is the only way to Heaven, that the events in the OT & NT really did happen, which Jesus was able to back up with His bodily resurrection from the dead, which - again - is verifiable historically.

 

[Pattylt]

is verifiable historically.

I don’t think you understand how History verifies things. That people believed these things happened, yes. That it can be historically verified, no. If you truly think it can, please enlighten me and use only history to do so…ie. Evidence?

 

[RaisedCatholic]

I don’t think you understand how History verifies things. That people believed these things happened, yes. That it can be historically verified, no. If you truly think it can, please enlighten me and use only history to do so…ie. Evidence?

What I mean by history “verifying” Christianity, is since nobody alive today was around 2,000 years ago (just as most historical events nobody alive today eyewitnessed), we can use the same standards for validating the claims of Christianity historically, just as we can any other historical event. For example, believing George Washington was elected the first POTUS can be verified historically by multiple written records, but it’s not as simple as people simply “believed this happened.” Just as there were eyewitnesses to that event, likewise, there were eyewitnesses to the resurrection of Jesus. When your eyes are open to this, then your discernment of the reliability of historical events being real becomes clear, and you become consistent with the standards you use for one historical claim with another.

 

[VanitasVanitatum]

Is a good melody important in music?

 

[question_bunny]

What brought you to this site, and why do you want people to ask you questions?

 

[Wozza]

I responded to this from you in post 151

If you are suggesting that ‘any result at all is an answer to your prayers’ - and it certainly appears to be what you are suggesting, then that would also apply to me praying to Zeus or the FSM.

The term ‘eyewitness’ is one thrown around too easily I find. For example, I have been told more times than I could count that there were 500 eyewitnesses that saw Jesus after the resurrection. When that is patently untrue. All we have is someone SAYING (decades after the event) that 500 people saw Him. Likewise when someone writes: ‘Jesus said…’ when to be accurate we need to say: ‘It was reported that Jesus said…’

This might sound pedantic but it needs to be pointed out.

With: I did not suggest that. YOU are suggesting that; I am not.

Since I haven’t posted much (bad weather here) it would have been fairly easy to just look back at my posts.

I hope you feel better soon.

From memory (it really is a pain to roll back through dozens of posts to find out what you actually said - and it wasn’t too difficult to quote me…) you suggested that sometimes we don’t get the answer we want when we pray.

Well sometimes things work out for the best and sometimes they don’t whether we pray or not. So if I pray to the FSM, the exact think will happen if I pray to God or I don’t pray at all.

How do we tell the difference is all options turn out the exact same result?