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commenter
Guest
Let’s keep the thread focused on positive aspects of Episcopal Church, rather than defending RCC here (and I do defend it on other threads).
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JohnStrachan
New member
You just touched on another thing I love about the Anglican church. I feel welcome. My home church loves me and my family, they are very hospitable. Congregants know our names and we know theirs. We email one another when someone hasn’t been to church for a few weeks.
Our congregation is personable and everybody who attends is there because they want to be there. There is no coercion, no guilt, no obligation. Some attend every week, some every two weeks other monthly. The givings on the plate are 4x the per capita of a RC Church (I know this because I’m a church fundraiser).
Anglicans are interested in the ministry of the church and know what “journey with Christ” and “discipleship” mean. Even though we may be loosely described as “Catholic lite” there are things we do better. Community building is one of them.
There are still things I love about the RC church as I have noted above. And it seems every six months or so I get this longing feeling. For all its faults, Anglicanism reconciles for me those elements of churchmanship that I find difficult in the RC Church.
Our congregation is personable and everybody who attends is there because they want to be there. There is no coercion, no guilt, no obligation. Some attend every week, some every two weeks other monthly. The givings on the plate are 4x the per capita of a RC Church (I know this because I’m a church fundraiser).
Anglicans are interested in the ministry of the church and know what “journey with Christ” and “discipleship” mean. Even though we may be loosely described as “Catholic lite” there are things we do better. Community building is one of them.
There are still things I love about the RC church as I have noted above. And it seems every six months or so I get this longing feeling. For all its faults, Anglicanism reconciles for me those elements of churchmanship that I find difficult in the RC Church.
blackforest
Well-known member
If you don’t mind my asking, what kind of Anglican are you?
I have a lot of other questions, but it looks like the OP doesn’t attend church a lot and may not be able to answer them. I’ll try to pose one and see if any Anglo/Episcopalian wants to bite on it.
I grew up in the ACC and have sporadically attended ECA services. I’ve noticed that where the Catholic parishes are packed at Sunday Masses, the Anglican/Episcopalian ones have much thinner attendance and, at that, a lot of graying heads with very few young families. (I don’t even live in a remarkably Catholic area like Boston or Butte). Is this more universally the case? If so, why do you think this is, and what is the church doing to draw in the younger generations?
I have a lot of other questions, but it looks like the OP doesn’t attend church a lot and may not be able to answer them. I’ll try to pose one and see if any Anglo/Episcopalian wants to bite on it.
I grew up in the ACC and have sporadically attended ECA services. I’ve noticed that where the Catholic parishes are packed at Sunday Masses, the Anglican/Episcopalian ones have much thinner attendance and, at that, a lot of graying heads with very few young families. (I don’t even live in a remarkably Catholic area like Boston or Butte). Is this more universally the case? If so, why do you think this is, and what is the church doing to draw in the younger generations?
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GKMotley
Guest
I cannot speak to the TEC case. I haven’t attended, save for one wedding and one funeral, in 50 years.
In my Continuum parish, heavily Anglo-Catholic, attendance is around 50 per Sunday Mass, total parish membership maybe twice that+. Age is indeed on the gray side. Until a recent influx of main-line protestants, seeking refuge and liturgical , orthodox worship.
We do out-reach as we can, including a permanent Anglican chapel just off the local university campus, with good student interaction, and folks from there drifting into the parish.
The situation is more favorable than it was (IMO) 5+ years, but we are not prospering as well as one would wish. But then, no true Anglican would be an optimist.
In my Continuum parish, heavily Anglo-Catholic, attendance is around 50 per Sunday Mass, total parish membership maybe twice that+. Age is indeed on the gray side. Until a recent influx of main-line protestants, seeking refuge and liturgical , orthodox worship.
We do out-reach as we can, including a permanent Anglican chapel just off the local university campus, with good student interaction, and folks from there drifting into the parish.
The situation is more favorable than it was (IMO) 5+ years, but we are not prospering as well as one would wish. But then, no true Anglican would be an optimist.
blackforest
Well-known member
My sister said that Anglicanism appeals to the head and Catholicism appeals to the heart. While that may be over-simplifying matters, I wonder if that’s why the RCC seems to resonate more with the young (???)
As a strictly anecdotal observation, I do meet an appalling numbers of Catholics who are uneducated about our faith, down to why we do what we do in the liturgy. Websites like this (especially the non-forum part - you hear everything in the forums, lol!), as well as other online outreach efforts, are helping a fair amount. But Anglicans and Episcopalians, in my own experience, have some pretty solid and well-attended adult education programs.
As a strictly anecdotal observation, I do meet an appalling numbers of Catholics who are uneducated about our faith, down to why we do what we do in the liturgy. Websites like this (especially the non-forum part - you hear everything in the forums, lol!), as well as other online outreach efforts, are helping a fair amount. But Anglicans and Episcopalians, in my own experience, have some pretty solid and well-attended adult education programs.
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HopkinsReb
Guest
And on the other side of this, my ACNA parish is full of young families with lots of young children, and we tend to have 150 or so for our main service, with another 20 or so for the early no-music service.
ACNA seems to be attracting the younger cohort in Anglicanism. Lots of folks from Evangelical backgrounds who wanted a more solemn service.
ACNA seems to be attracting the younger cohort in Anglicanism. Lots of folks from Evangelical backgrounds who wanted a more solemn service.
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HopkinsReb
Guest
This is timely. I’m reading a book on Anglicanism that a friend of mine in seminary loaned me. This is an excerpt from an essay on Scripture from a mainstream Anglican that apparently was considered fit to publish. This is prefaced by arguing that Scripture is not inerrant and we should stop considering it to be inspired, but we should continue saying it’s inspired because
That’s right: we should not only reject the inerrancy of Scripture, but we should also lie about it so other Christians will like us.its abandonment would have serious implications for ecumenical dialogue with the Roman Catholic, Orthodox, and Lutheran Churches, all of which affirm the inspiration of Scripture.
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GKMotley
Guest
And few of the Anglo-Catholics, in spite of +Iker, I’d guess.
We are plentifully stocked with youth, thank God. Maybe a third of the parish is under 18. Which has its ups and downs.
We are plentifully stocked with youth, thank God. Maybe a third of the parish is under 18. Which has its ups and downs.
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HopkinsReb
Guest
Yes, definitely few Anglo-Catholics. I’m definitely the odd man out.
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GKMotley
Guest
Which is not at all surprising. I’ve seen it done before.
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HopkinsReb
Guest
I’d seen all of that argument except the bit that we should lie about it. Really astonishing stuff.
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GKMotley
Guest
Prevarication was previously revealed, after the battle for the preservation of the BCP was lost by the orthodox, and the 79 book was adopted.
blackforest
Well-known member
I’ve heard this about Catholicism, as well. There’s an anecdotal observation that younger people are craving the high liturgy and quality music. As a result, they’re seeking out Mass in the extraordinary form. Wither thee, mega- churches?
blackforest
Well-known member
What is the book? Do tell!
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HopkinsReb
Guest
It’s a collection of essays called “The Study of Anglicanism,” by Stephen Sykes, John Booty (heehee), and Jonathan Knight.
JohnStrachan
New member
I lean Evangelical Anglican. In our diocese it is reported that about 25% of our churches are growing. Generally speaking, RC churches tend to be fuller. I attribute this to:
Evangelical churches tend to draw in more young families because they have the programs. Giving tends to be higher thus affording the parish to hire more ministry staff who service the needs of various groups (e.g. kids, families, seniors).
- Sunday mass obligation
- Density of Catholics in the population in general
- Catholic Schools being a feeder system into the churches
Evangelical churches tend to draw in more young families because they have the programs. Giving tends to be higher thus affording the parish to hire more ministry staff who service the needs of various groups (e.g. kids, families, seniors).
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Lenten_ashes
Guest
Sorry if I sound “uncharitable”. But I was once a frustrated protestant searching for my home…and every direction I was turning I kept finding these Churches that were so soft on sin. Something that made zero sense to me because our Lord spoke so often and so harshly about it.
And in the interest of fairness, liberal leaning Catholics who deviate from official church teaching in favor of their personal feelings and opinions frustrate me just as much…maybe even more. Hot tub Christianity, no matter the denomination or branch, is lukewarmness and we know how Jesus feels about it. (((Revelation 3:16)))
If we really love one another we speak the truth despite the fact that it’s unsettling to some…it can save souls.
And in the interest of fairness, liberal leaning Catholics who deviate from official church teaching in favor of their personal feelings and opinions frustrate me just as much…maybe even more. Hot tub Christianity, no matter the denomination or branch, is lukewarmness and we know how Jesus feels about it. (((Revelation 3:16)))
If we really love one another we speak the truth despite the fact that it’s unsettling to some…it can save souls.
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billsannie
Guest
I’m struggling with this issue so I guess I’ll jump in. In my experience the Episcopal Church definitely talks about sin. It’s just (sometimes) seen a little differently from the way some Catholics see it.
The Catholic Church condemns consequentialism to the point an action may still be seen as objectively good even if it causes great harm. Conversely, an action may be immoral even if the results are good. Episcopalians, while not consequentialist, still consider, to a degree, results in judging a given action. This just makes a lot more sense to me.
There’s much more but I’ll skip it for now. Basically, I love many, many things in the Episcopal Church, and find attending it very spiritually helpful. In the Catholic Church I love the Eucharist. Otherwise it’s little but struggle in my spiritual life. It’s sort of like a choice between a beautiful garden full of sweetness, and a desert with nothing but the Eucharist and the hot, hot sun. Please pray for me.
The Catholic Church condemns consequentialism to the point an action may still be seen as objectively good even if it causes great harm. Conversely, an action may be immoral even if the results are good. Episcopalians, while not consequentialist, still consider, to a degree, results in judging a given action. This just makes a lot more sense to me.
There’s much more but I’ll skip it for now. Basically, I love many, many things in the Episcopal Church, and find attending it very spiritually helpful. In the Catholic Church I love the Eucharist. Otherwise it’s little but struggle in my spiritual life. It’s sort of like a choice between a beautiful garden full of sweetness, and a desert with nothing but the Eucharist and the hot, hot sun. Please pray for me.
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catholic4ever
Guest
Why aren’t you a fully-religious Episcopalian? What holds you back from embracing your faith completely?
blackforest
Well-known member
Do you believe you’re saving Episcopalian souls?If we really love one another we speak the truth despite the fact that it’s unsettling to some…it can save souls.
Do you believe their souls need saving?
I would agree.I’m struggling with this issue so I guess I’ll jump in. In my experience the Episcopal Church definitely talks about sin. It’s just (sometimes) seen a little differently from the way some Catholics see it.
There’s an impression that they’re somehow wussy, wimpy, lukewarm Christians. In reality, none of us know enough to judge another person’s faith journey.
I’ve had an eerily similar experience to yours and will pray for you.
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