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Hadi
Guest
the source has no author or publisher ,but here it is
“Various Historian Secular Sources Remarks the Trinity” in Scribd.com
“Various Historian Secular Sources Remarks the Trinity” in Scribd.com
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Byzantine_Wolf
Guest
Hmmm seems like that document is written by a Jehovah’s Witness as well.
Best to stay far away from them. Seeking theological facts from them is like seeking facts on Islam from the Ba’hai.
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inJESUS
Guest
Actually you think you are asking about Him, in fact He is the One searching for you because He says He is standing at your door and knocking. So it is good to stick to the forum and learn things, but better yet to go directly to Him and tell Him you are sincere, you hear his knocking, and ask Him in to show you Who He is and He will. You’re on the right path, it’s the Holy Spirit working on you…God bless.
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Hadi
Guest
Thanks,
but it’s really hard for me to imagine myself being a trinitarian , I can reject Islam and everything but can’t get myself to worship Jesus. it’s not that my religion is perfect, but the alternative (Christianity) is not logical when it comes about God. I think Judaism or a Unitarian Christianity is the religion I would choose if I reject my religion…
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inJESUS
Guest
i understand your concern but there is no need to be afraid of the word trinity. It is just a word that describes the One and Only God and if you speak Arabic i can explain it as Mawjoud bi zaatihi, hay bi rouhihi, naatiqon bi kalimatihi , One Father, His Word, His Spirit.
As to worshipping Jesus, we do not worship a man because God is not a man, but if God wishes to show Himself as a man, then i am worshipping God.
islam knows nothing about God’s Holy Spirit while Jews the “non-Trinitarians” know that the Holy Spirit is God, they simply do not label things in the way we do but doesn’t mean they don’t have/know the teaching that the Holy Spirit of the “Trinitarians” is none but God. Hope that helps and when it comes to Jesus, you first accept His knocking, you let Him in, and then He will open your eyes to understand everything …don’t reject Him because you can’t understand Him but allow Him to prepare you. God bless.
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Hadi
Guest
my mind, soul , spirit , intellect , word , body …etc is the build up of one person…not many persons…yes. God has word, but it’s not another person.
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Jay53
Guest
EXACTLY!!!
God is ONE!
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Hadi
Guest
I said “one person” ,Idon’t think you agree with thatEXACTLY!!!
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Jay53
Guest
I think we agree that God is One. Father, Son and Holy Spirit are One.
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Hadi
Guest
is your spirit another person or not ?
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Byzantine_Wolf
Guest
This may be a fair thing to ponder, but I think you have to ask yourself where “logic” comes into play when you speak of the supernatural. You can certainly think rationally regarding certain things, but to be a rationalist and a supernaturalist at the same time presents many conundrums. The fact is that God works in ways we cannot imagine - but if God chooses to work in their ways, we have to accept them. Keep in mind that the Trinity was not something just made up out of the blue, but something revealed over the course of our history, particularly around the time of Christ’s earthly ministry.
After all, how must have the original apostles thought as they experienced the Trinity. What did Peter, James and John think as they saw the Son, heard the Father, and were enveloped by the Holy Spirit? How did John the Baptist think when he saw the Son, saw the Holy Spirit descend as a dove, and heard the Father from heaven? How did all the apostles think at Pentecost when the Holy Spirit, promised by the Son to be sent by the Father, descended upon them in the upper room? What’s more, how did Abraham think when the one God appeared to him in the form of three men? (Genesis 18) They certainly didn’t think, “Well some might not find this logical, so we’ll just reject this.” They accepted the fullness of the revelation. They didn’t hide or dumb down anything so that people could accept it. God is who He is, and you cannot change that.
The Trinity is still one God, yes. The very word Trinity means “Unity in Three.” We believe in one Divine Being of God united by three Divine Persons who share a common Essence. It is a grand revelation of God’s omnipresence, and each Person represents the fullness of God. This teaching has been preserved from the time of Christ well into the modern era. It has been preserved by the grace of the Spirit and by the tender love of our Lord.
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Jay53
Guest
See Byzantine Wolf’s post above. I think he explains it very well.
(I’m not sure if we are arguing semantics here or not. I just know that God was, is and always shall be One: Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Sometimes I think Muslims get confused because some Muslims believe the Holy Spirit is the Angel Gabriel which is not correct at all.)
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Hadi
Guest
he didn’t answer my question …See Byzantine Wolf’s post above. I think he explains it very well.
(I’m not sure if we are arguing semantics here or not. I just know that God was, is and always shall be One: Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Sometimes I think Muslims get confused because some Muslims believe the Holy Spirit is the Angel Gabriel which is not correct at all.)
Why do you consider yourself as one person , even though you have three different entities, a spirit ,body and mind
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inJESUS
Guest
what do you understand by “person”?
Did you understand what i wrote in Arabic? Mawjoud bi zaatihi, hay bi rouhihi, naatiqon bi kalimatihi ?
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Hadi
Guest
What I mean by “person” is to have a distinct mind …because if you look at humans, they might share the same body (*as in Siamese *twins) yet they have different minds (Aql , tafkeer , idraak)…
Yes I know Arabic,but you can find these terms in both the Hebrew bible and the Quran : God’s Hand, Eye, Spirit, Face, Word and more…yet, we don’t say these are persons… (or as you may say it Aganeem)
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Jay53
Guest
Sorry, Hadi, but you’ve totally lost me - I’m not sure what your question is anymore. God is One - Father, Son and Holy Spirit are One. You can describe them as “persons” and they are distinct, but still One. I know that I cannot explain it well - I honestly thought Byzantine Wolf did a very good job. Perhaps it is just part of my faith and the grace/understanding that God has blessed me with because I have no questions/issues/confusion about the Trinity. I think (just my opinion) that some of the understanding of God and how He has revealed Himself to us comes only from Him and the grace and knowledge He bestows on us - maybe, as some have said, you should just pray to God for understanding. May God bless you.
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Byzantine_Wolf
Guest
I think there may be something lost in the translation. The individual Persons of the Trinity are not “entities” - there is only one Divine Entity, and that is God, but He is united through His Three Persons (again, the word “Trinity” means “Unity in Three”).
What might help is if we look to the original Greek of the NT (and I hope you have Greek letters on your computer, or this’ll just look like a lot of blocks!). I’m going specifically to the Great Commission:
Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit [Matthew 28:19; ESV]
πορευθεντες ουν μαθητευσατε παντα τα εθνη βαπτιζοντες αυτους εις το ονομα του πατρος και του υιου και του αγιου πνευματος [Matthew 28:19; UBS Text; emphasis mine]
The singular ονομα (“name”) is used, and yet we have the identification of three Persons: πατρος (“Father”), υιου (“Son”) and αγιου πνευματος (“Holy Spirit”). The use of the article του for each word, as well as the distinction between each name with και (“and”) emphasizes, again, that these are three distinct Persons yet they are united within the Being of God.
To reiterate, these three Persons are all united by a common Essence and are part of the one Being of God. They are not like Siamese Twins. They are not (as Modalists and Oneness Pentecostals claim) different “modes” of a One Person/One Being entity, nor are they (as the Koran claims) three separate gods. One Being of God revealed in three Persons united by one Essence.
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jakasaki
Guest
Below is islams view of Christianity ~
This sort of stuff is what muslims read every day about Catholics and Christianity in general.
If one is truly sincere in learning and understanding Catholicism, this islamic explaination posted below needs to leave one’s mind while exploring and researching.
This sort of stuff is what muslims read every day about Catholics and Christianity in general.
If one is truly sincere in learning and understanding Catholicism, this islamic explaination posted below needs to leave one’s mind while exploring and researching.
Just my 2 cents, just my opinion ~ I wish you well Hadi and may you find what you are seeking.
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Jay53
Guest
:hypno:
:banghead:
There’s my 2 cents on that description. If that is what Muslims are being taught about Christianity it’s no wonder their view is screwed up.
The first sentence itself can be refuted by studying the ECF.
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jakasaki
Guest
Well Jay, did you look at the link I provided. It’s 100% islam.:hypno:
:banghead:
There’s my 2 cents on that description. If that is what Muslims are being taught about Christianity it’s no wonder their view is screwed up.
The first sentence itself can be refuted by studying the ECF.
But you know, it’s not the first time I’ve seen this nor am I shocked by it any more.
BTW, I liked your description…
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