Asking for Advice/Guidance on Relationship with Girlfriend

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I’m in a bit of a unique, difficult situation, and I’d like to hear someone else speak their mind on what I should do or how I should act. My girlfriend and I are completely in love with one another, and we are entirely committed and devoted to each other. While we’re not technically engaged, we’ve promised to marry, and there is no question as to whether either of us will break that promise - we have full faith and trust in one another’s love, that’s how deeply it goes. However, due to her studies at college and her parent’s wishes, we wouldn’t be able to marry for likely another 6 years, which both of us view as a tragedy. In the meantime, she’ll be proceeding with completing her undergraduate studies and enrolling in graduate school, and I’ll be completing my undergraduate studies and entering the military for 3-5 years. While we realize this is the best (actually, only available) course of action, to complete our work and get married afterwards, we’re both in an incredible amount of emotional pain over our separation and the long wait. My asking of advice ultimately revolves around the proper conduct of romance during this time period before marriage. Both of us completely refuse to ever engage in fornication or overt sexual acts, either with another person or each other, and I have no desire to engage in, or have any addiction to, pornography, masturbation, etc. However, the thought of not being able to show any affection towards one another for such a long period of time is extremely painful too. I’m not one to condone mental sexual fantasies, but is it sinful, in our circumstances, to at least kiss/makeout, cuddle/spoon, pet, etc.? I’d marry this woman tomorrow if I had the opportunity, but circumstances dictate otherwise. Before you rush to a conclusion, please remember that we’ve made a PLEDGE to marry one another - this is not your average boyfriend/girlfriend get-together. And I’m in an enormous amount of pain even when I don’t get to see her in a day - let alone the months and years I won’t be able to see her in the military. I’d appreciate your thoughts on this matter. Thank you!
 
A few thoughts:

a) At some point you need to make decisions for yourself and not allow parents to do that for you. I’m not sure how old you are, but you need to give this some thought. It may be foolish to ignore the advice of your parents, but as adults you need to make up your own minds too.

b) Your pledge may be special to the two of you, but it has no moral bearing. You are not married yet, and need to act accordingly. I am married now, but before that I was engaged to another woman. I thought similarly to you…that we were going to get married, it was merely a matter of time, so why not be a little more affectionate than a mere BF-GF couple should be? I was devastated when it didn’t work out, but then realised that I had acted in ways towards here that were inappropriate. It was inappropriate not merely because things didn’t work out; it was inappropriate because we thought our relationship was somehow different and we could push the boundaries accordingly, but this was wrong.

Until you are married, you cannot presume that you will be. You should conduct yourselves according to proper conduct for a Catholic GF-BF relationship, which means some physical affection may be OK (the specifics are debatable), but not to engage in actions that lead to arousal. You need to be careful to avoid near occasions of sin, in which you could be tempted to push the boundaries further. If you have 5 or 6 years to wait, this will prove difficult so you need to be committed to chastity from the start. Once you’ve moved a particular boundary, it’s almost impossible to move it back.
 
Thank you for your thoughts, I do appreciate it. I realize that it is only natural for one under emotional and mental strain to rationalize and make excuses for one’s behavior, but I will at least raise a couple additional thoughts.
  1. While interpretations of the Song of Songs vary, does it not seem to provide for expressions of romance between two people that have made a commitment to one another?
  2. St. Paul said that it was better to marry than to burn with lust. In seems that he’s treating lust, at least for some Christians that are not strong enough, as something of an inevitability, and that marriage was the proper treatment for that. I’ve made my decision, and she has made hers, and I have asked repeatedly for God’s blessing of our love and eventual marriage. In the meantime, I suppose I’m just expected to stew with lust? While I can control myself mentally, there is only so much control that I can control over my heart here - sexual desire and love in true relationships are intertwined in some way, and to separate them entirely is like asking me to stop caring for her - I simply cannot. To have literally NO outlet, after we’ve made such a decision together and the length of time we have to wait, is little more than torture, and I have some difficulty convincing myself that that literal of an interpretation of the law, under these specific circumstances, is God’s will. I do not treat her as an object - but at the same time to deprive her of any and all love and comfort, due to the risk that we may accidentally feel some sexual desire towards one another, seems a little strange to me. I suppose I should ask her to start wearing a veil then, so I don’t risk feeling attraction to her.
 
S. Thomas Aquinas, proclaimed one of the greatest teachers of the Church said, “Now lust consists essentially in exceeding the order and mode of reason in the matter of venereal acts.” (Summa Theologica, II-II, q. 153, a. 3)

This distress that you are experiencing is the lust within the mode of reason in which you cling with one another - “lust applies chiefly to venereal pleasures, which more than anything else work the greatest havoc in a man’s mind.” (ibid., a. 1)

Love is tested affection. I cannot see this in any other light that the relationship you are in is in need of purification. Even though you do not fornicate, your mode of reason is to cling to each other, and that just is not true and beyond right reason. Your even being tempted to ruin the relationship of the parents, this is not right reason.

S. Thomas says more, “Wherefore since fornication is a mortal sin, and much more so the other kinds of lust, it follows that in such like sins not only consent to the act but also consent to the pleasure is a mortal sin. Consequently, when these **kisses and caresses **are done for this delectation, it follows that they are mortal sins, and only in this way are they said to be lustful. Therefore in so far as they are lustful, they are mortal sins.” (ibid., q. 154, a. 4)

The Popes had turned to S. Thomas for the truth, and recommended his teaching for the enlightment of the truth. You might have already committed mortal sins with this woman by your kissing and caresses, and that is parasitic to your life-long commitment you want to undertake. There are other kinds of lust such like to not check the passions and by that omittion you drop semen and by that your body has undertaken a mortal sin for Saint Paul said, “Now the works of the flesh are plain…impurity…I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.” (Gal 5:19, 21) How can I say that impurity means the passion and the indication of that sin by semen? That is how S. Thomas indicated the truth when he spoken about the daughters of gluttony (a sin of the flesh, just as lust is). He calls it uncleanness, and this word was the word used in older translations of the bible in regard to the verse I quoted from S. Paul.

I do not want to impose this on you. Your free to ruin the relationship. I write this so you know the truth, and get the best possible results.
 
Morgn said:
…However, the thought of not being able to show any affection towards one another for such a long period of time is extremely painful too…And I’m in an enormous amount of pain even when I don’t get to see her in a day - let alone the months and years I won’t be able to see her in the military…
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“the thought of not being able to show any affection towards one another for such a long period of time”

Is giving flower/chocolate is not a show of affection for you?

“And I’m in an enormous amount of pain even when I don’t get to see her in a day”

Can’t you send a short message to her using your cellphone? It’s a great way to be in touch.

“let alone the months and years I won’t be able to see her in the military”

Are you sure you want to be in the military? I’m pretty sure there are times soldier will be drafted to the battlefield, not just training. A friend of mine in a local army have to stay and keep guard at the boarder, thus away from family and friends.

This is a personal opinion, but if I were you, I don’t think I will pass the psychology/emotional test by the army.

:blessyou:
 
I agree with what the previous comments are telling you. 🙂 Overcoming these “passionate acts” towards your girlfriend until you are married could be the greatest gift that you could give to her. I have been in a relationship such as yours, we swear to each other that we would be married someday thus making us think that showing affection physically(I’m referring here not just to simple hugs and kisses.) is okay. But IT IS NOT! I swear! and whatever kind of reasoning you use, it would still be wrong and against the commandments of our Lord. Wake up. get up to your senses. God made you wiser than what you think. Protect your girl. Treat her the way a woman should be treated. In this way, I believe God will bless more your relationship. Don’t let her to be an object of your physical desires. By doing this, she may love you even more…

Just a thought, simply by having trouble thinking about your situation tells you that something about what your thinking is not right. Your good soul is already telling you that. Listen to it. Pray. Ask for enlightenment. 🙂

May God bless you and your relationship.
 
Yes it is wrong to do those things. These are intrinsically wrong acts, they do not depend upon circumstances. You are merely trying to rationalize sin by imagining you have some sort of unique circumstance. Your circumstance is not unique. Moreover, it is of your own making.

The only thing ACTUALLY stopping you from getting marrid is the two of you. She is an adult, her parents have no say in when or whom she marries. She can go to graduate school wherever you are based, or online.

You two are old enough to cut the apron strings and stop making excuses. Six years, get real. If you are not able to see through these self-created barriers to marriage then really you probably are not ready to get married.
 
Morgn said:
I’m in a bit of a unique, difficult situation, and I’d like to hear someone else speak their mind on what I should do or how I should act. My girlfriend and I are completely in love with one another, and we are entirely committed and devoted to each other. While we’re not technically engaged, we’ve promised to marry, and there is no question as to whether either of us will break that promise - we have full faith and trust in one another’s love, that’s how deeply it goes. However, due to her studies at college and her parent’s wishes, we wouldn’t be able to marry for likely another 6 years, which both of us view as a tragedy. In the meantime, she’ll be proceeding with completing her undergraduate studies and enrolling in graduate school, and I’ll be completing my undergraduate studies and entering the military for 3-5 years. While we realize this is the best (actually, only available) course of action, to complete our work and get married afterwards, we’re both in an incredible amount of emotional pain over our separation and the long wait. My asking of advice ultimately revolves around the proper conduct of romance during this time period before marriage. Both of us completely refuse to ever engage in fornication or overt sexual acts, either with another person or each other, and I have no desire to engage in, or have any addiction to, pornography, masturbation, etc. However, the thought of not being able to show any affection towards one another for such a long period of time is extremely painful too. I’m not one to condone mental sexual fantasies, but is it sinful, in our circumstances, to at least kiss/makeout, cuddle/spoon, pet, etc.? I’d marry this woman tomorrow if I had the opportunity, but circumstances dictate otherwise. Before you rush to a conclusion, please remember that we’ve made a PLEDGE to marry one another - this is not your average boyfriend/girlfriend get-together. And I’m in an enormous amount of pain even when I don’t get to see her in a day - let alone the months and years I won’t be able to see her in the military. I’d appreciate your thoughts on this matter. Thank you!
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Your answer maybe will help my eldest: why dont you marry next month?
 
Morgn said:
I’d marry this woman tomorrow if I had the opportunity, but circumstances dictate otherwise. Before you rush to a conclusion, please remember that we’ve made a PLEDGE to marry one another - this is not your average boyfriend/girlfriend get-together. And I’m in an enormous amount of pain even when I don’t get to see her in a day - let alone the months and years I won’t be able to see her in the military. I’d appreciate your thoughts on this matter. Thank you!
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If you were actually serious about marrying her tomorrow you would. In not doing so because of your parents you are sending the message loud and clear that what they think means more to you than a life with each other.

Because she has six or so years of school left I’m guessing you are young, like the 18-20 range, but closer to 18. This is actually very much your “average boyfriend/girlfriend get together”. Teens make pledges of eternity all the time while lamenting their Romeo and Juliet situation that is keeping them from fulfilling that pledge. Of course if you really wanted to, and really put forth the effort, those obstacles could easily be overcome. It really isn’t the star crossed lovers situation that you think it is.

My advice? DON’T GET MARRIED! You are so young, there are so many red flags in your post that tell me that this is not a mature relationship, you guys both have several years coming up that will really tell you who you are, and the fact that parental wishes override your decision to marry says a lot.

Separate, take this time to really get to know yourselves, grow as individuals, get an education, and if years down the road your paths cross, then you will both be in a better position of moving forward together.
 
I respect all of your opinions, and I thank you for your replies, but please do not insult our relationship. First of all, I can’t just go get married next month because her parents want her to complete her education before getting married - and they’re paying the college bills. If she and I went off and got married, her parents would disown her and refuse to pay for her education. So, I’d say that’s a pretty legitimate reason to not push the envelope here.
Second, while I understand the skepticism about the maturity of the relationship and our pledge, if you understood at all the time we’ve gotten to know each other, and the depth of the healing and love we’ve brought to one another, you would not be so quick to judge. I have some capability of looking at a relationship with objectivity - this is not a Romeo & Juliet situation, where it was love at first sight and driven completely by passion. It took a very long time to develop, and in that process we’ve gotten to know each other better than we have anyone else. We know what we want. Say what you will about the conduct of our relationship - I did not ask anyone to cast judgment or doubt on the sincerity and maturity of our relationship.
 
Morgn said:
I respect all of your opinions, and I thank you for your replies, but please do not insult our relationship. First of all, I can’t just go get married next month because her parents want her to complete her education before getting married - and they’re paying the college bills. If she and I went off and got married, her parents would disown her and refuse to pay for her education. So, I’d say that’s a pretty legitimate reason to not push the envelope here.
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Nope, it isn’t. Plenty of people pay for college without their parents’ financial help. I did it. And if this “pledge” was as real as you think it is you would be buying a ring and the two of you would be figuring out how she can complete her education as a married woman. It really isn’t hard with loans, grants, scholarships, etc. And if she gets married her parents’ income no longer matters, so her federal aid will go way up. If you join the military its even easier. People who are truly serious and mature enough for marriage don’t put it off because of their parents.

This is why you should not get married. And its ok, you’re so young and you have so much else to focus on. You guys are kids, finish growing up and enjoy that time.
 
Yes, because her finishing college $200,000 in debt from loans and federal aid will be a great start to a successful marriage. I don’t know where you went to school or how long ago it was, but I don’t know where you get off saying that it’s easy - my guess is the economy wasn’t nearly as bad in your day, college fees were lower, and you probably weren’t studying to become a medical doctor and intent on being the head of your class. I’ll be fortunate if the military covers my own college debt with my salary, let alone covering hers, and she has her studies to focus on around the clock. Considering financial hardships are a leading reason for destroying marriages, I think it’s a wiser choice to wait this one out.
 
Morgn said:
Yes, because her finishing college $200,000 in debt from loans and federal aid will be a great start to a successful marriage. I don’t know where you went to school or how long ago it was, but I don’t know where you get off saying that it’s easy - my guess is the economy wasn’t nearly as bad in your day, college fees were lower, and you probably weren’t studying to become a medical doctor and intent on being the head of your class. I’ll be fortunate if the military covers my own college debt with my salary, let alone covering hers, and she has her studies to focus on around the clock. Considering financial hardships are a leading reason for destroying marriages, I think it’s a wiser choice to wait this one out.
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Actually I just finished my degree. It took me a couple extra years because I worked full time and I had to take a year off due to a serious illness. I am now starting law school. The good thing was that by the time I graduated I had the makings of a great career. Not many people make 40K a year before graduation. So even if law school hadn’t worked out I had a career path to fall back on. Not a lot of grads can say that.

You can do one of two things. You can either decide that this woman is the one for you and stop making excuses and both start coming up with ways for it to work, and yes, that does mean making sacrifices. But that’s what adults who are ready for marriage do. Or, you can acknowledge that if marriage is 6 years out and you aren’t willing to do what it takes to fix that then you aren’t at a point in your life where you’re ready for lifelong “pledges” and commitments.
 
Morgn said:
I respect all of your opinions, and I thank you for your replies, but please do not insult our relationship. First of all, I can’t just go get married next month because her parents want her to complete her education before getting married - and they’re paying the college bills. If she and I went off and got married, her parents would disown her and refuse to pay for her education.
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a) Millions of people have paid for their own education and been just fine. You work, you go part time, you delay graduate school, you get scholarships, you find a way even if it takes longer and is less convenient.
b) This is not a reason to delay marriage at the price of committing grave sin.
c) This is straight up manipulation by her parents, and if you two cannot or will not reject that type of behavior and make your own way in the world, then frankly you are not ready to be married.
Morgn said:
So, I’d say that’s a pretty legitimate reason to not push the envelope here.
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For grown up people it certainly is not a legitimate reason to delay marriage. She needs to establish boundaries now, else this will be a never ending tactic on their part.
Morgn said:
I did not ask anyone to cast judgment or doubt on the sincerity and maturity of our relationship.
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The types of barriers you are throwing up are self-made and do show a lack of mature judgment. That is not an assessment of you but of what you have presented here. It is all we have to go on.
 
See whole section of CCC: scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s2c2a6.htm#II

2350 Those who are engaged to marry are called to live chastity in continence. They should see in this time of testing a discovery of mutual respect, an apprenticeship in fidelity, and the hope of receiving one another from God. They should reserve for marriage the expressions of affection that belong to married love. They will help each other grow in chastity.

Also see:

ewtn.com/expert/answers/dating.htm from a writer at EWTN Theology Dept …it will be of great help!

(One note though on this reading…I would note that when they say “as soon as he begins to enjoy…” under “pure intent”… it would mean before knowing consent…)
 
The way I see it is a couple that is united on doing the will of God is the only couple that should be married. If the will of God asks you to be separated then you pray for the strength to be chaste while apart. If the will of God asks you to get married even though it means leaving your parents and losing financial support, then you pray for the strength to leave your parents. If the will of God asks you to forsake your career path in order to be married then you need to pray for the strength to do so. All that matters in all of this is doing Gods will and keeping His commandments even if this means you have to completely separate and leave each other.

If you love someone you do God’s will. If you don’t love them you do your own.

I would also pray and read

[bibledrb]mark 8:36[/bibledrb]

[bibledrb]matthew 6:33[/bibledrb]

[bibledrb]Matthew 19:5[/bibledrb]

And I would also recommend reading the book “Three to Get Married” by Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen.
 
Honestly, six years really is an absurd amount of time to wait for marriage. If you guys have been together for a couple of years and you’re serious, then you should really get married soon.

As it is you are setting yourselves up for failure in multiple ways. First of all you’re letting her parents dictate too much of the relationship. Have you sat down together and discussed with them yor feelings and intentions? If not then you haven’t made a serious step towards marriage commitment yet. If you’re not prepared to have this kind of talk with her parents together as a couple, and face the possible consequences, then there is simply no way you’ll be able to face marriage. In the mean time, as you wait 6 years for marriage, you will facechallenges and temptations that you are unlikely to be able handle, because anyone would likely fail them. I’m speaking from experience here: my wife and I had to wait three years to marry due to circumstances beyond our control, a few moments of weakness in that stretch and our two-year old daughter was our flower girl. These things happen in the best of circumstances, no need to set yourself up for hardship.

So my advice is to talk with the parents as adults and get married within the next year or two if you’re serious. If that’s not possible then you may need to reevaluate things.

Peace and God bless!
 
In addition to what Ghosty said about temptation there is also the fact that without real commitment and moving forward relationships tend to fizzle out. We kind of subconsciously think “What’s the point?” when we aren’t actively moving towards something real. If you aren’t ready to get married the kindest thing you can do for both of you is to break up. That way no one is hurt when the other moves on first, no one is taking time and energy away from school, friends, and even other potential partners to fulfill a halfhearted “commitment” to someone far away. You guys are too young to waste this precious time on fairytales. You need to really enjoy and make the most of where you’re at in life now.
 
A couple quick thoughts:
  1. It is interesting to see many posters state that you are “letting her parents dictate your relationship,” while just a mouseclick away on a “courtship” thread, other posters are advocating letting one’s parents dictate one’s relationships (although they don’t phrase it that way, of course)
  2. You and your girlfriend sound like you were a couple of good-hearted, obedient Catholic children. This is what happens when you grow up. It is difficult (or sometimes it simply doesn’t occur to you) to break out of the automatic submission to your parents, so I’m not going to jump on you for your “red-flag immaturity” like some of the other posters. In many ways, you commit to growing with each other in marriage, so it doesn’t matter as much how “mature” you are at the time of the ceremony. What matters is whether you commit to “maturing” together. Finally, it is time to figure out what “Honor thy father and mother” means when you are an adult. Here’s a hint: sometimes you have grounds to ignore them.
  3. Sex is something that grows organically out of a loving relationship, and it is an important component to a relationship. Starve a relationship of sex for too long and you are asking for trouble. I know we have the magic-wand rule of marriage, so if you are at that point where your relationship is ready for sex, you should seriously consider marriage. Abstaining now is not “practice” for you being deployed; it doesn’t work that way.
    Overall – again, only you can decide what to do, but if you go the marriage route, you will need to be able to stand together as a couple and make YOUR decisions.
 
AthenaC said:
A couple quick thoughts:
  1. It is interesting to see many posters state that you are “letting her parents dictate your relationship,” while just a mouseclick away on a “courtship” thread, other posters are advocating letting one’s parents dictate one’s relationships (although they don’t phrase it that way, of course)
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AWESOME OBSERVATION!!!

Of course that does beg the question of exactly what role parents should actually play in adult relationships. I think I’m going to go start that thread now, so as not to derail this one.
 
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