Asking help from a saint

[Blue_Serenity]

Scripture said: That the elders and the living creatures are offering the prayers of the holy ones. (Revelation 5:8)

Scripture said: That the Angel is offering the prayers of the holy ones (Revelation 8:3-5)

So why aren’t the Holy Ones glorifying God themselves? Why are the Holy One are using the Angels, Elders and Living Creatures to Glorify God?

Rev5:8 is inconclusive on proving your point that CC pray to the dead. They could be praying for people on earth. You know, like when someone has a sick relative and you pray to God to make them better.
Rev.8:3-5 says that the angel is offering prayers, not man. How do you know that the angel isn’t offering prayers on their own behalf of people on earth? Who says that they are being prayed to for intercession?
I don’t know why the Holy Ones aren’t glorifying God themselves. It would make sense to but I can’t say why they aren’t doing so directly to God.

 

[Blue_Serenity]

I agree with you, SAHM02

Blue Serenity, I have discussed this with another non-Catholic Christian groups and they said those prayers are of those who still live on earth; however, because of the difference of interpretation of scripture, we just don’t agree on the intercession of saints.

Therefore, you can see among non-Catholic Christians, people believe in different things and that lead to so many divisions.

True. I just simply don’t understand why you would pray to saints and such, instead of directly to God.
That’s all I was trying to say.
I apologize for my lack of knowledge in debating but I’ve only been a church-goer for 7 years now, after a lifetime of not even knowing God really.

 

[SAHM02]

Rev5:8 is inconclusive on proving your point that CC pray to the dead. They could be praying for people on earth. You know, like when someone has a sick relative and you pray to God to make them better.
Rev.8:3-5 says that the angel is offering prayers, not man. How do you know that the angel isn’t offering prayers on their own behalf of people on earth? Who says that they are being prayed to for intercession?
I don’t know why the Holy Ones aren’t glorifying God themselves. It would make sense to but I can’t say why they aren’t doing so directly to God.

hmm…funny you can’t explain why the Holy One’s aren’t glorifying God themsleves, but at the same time you seem to harp on Catholic’s because they asked Saint So-So to pray to God for them. I’m just

Okay So the Elders and Living Creatures, who are in Heaven are praying for those ON Earth. How do they know that those on Earth need prayers? How do they know what to offer up on the behalf of those ON Earth, espeically seeing the Elders and Living Creatures are in Heaven.

Okay, So the Angels, who are in Heaven are praying for those ON Earth. How do the the Angels know that those on Earth need prayers? How do they know what to offer up on the behalf of those ON Earth, especially seeing the Angels are in Heaven.

 

[Blue_Serenity]

hmm…funny you can’t explain why the Holy One’s aren’t glorifying God themsleves, but at the same time you seem to harp on Catholic’s because they asked Saint So-So to pray to God for them. I’m just

I’m not harping on Catholics for praying to the saints. I just don’t see the point of it. Afterall, God is the Creator of the heavens and the earth and knows all. He just seems like the best one to go to.

SAHM02:

Okay, So the Angels, who are in Heaven are praying for those ON Earth. How do the the Angels know that those on Earth need prayers? How do they know what to offer up on the behalf of those ON Earth, especially seeing the Angels are in Heaven.

Do you believe the angels can see what’s going on down on earth or not?

 

[SAHM02]

I’m not harping on Catholics for praying to the saints. I just don’t see the point of it. Afterall, God is the Creator of the heavens and the earth and knows all. He just seems like the best one to go to.

Do you believe the angels can see what’s going on down on earth or not?

If I believe that angels can see what’s going on down on Earth, then I have to believe that EVERYONE in heaven can see what’s going on down on Earth.

That means that Mary can see what’s going on down on Earth.
That means that Aunt Jane can see what’s going on down on Earth.
That means that EVERYONE in heaven can see what is going on down on Earth.

Angels are CREATURES. PEOPLE are CREATURES. If one CREATURE in Heaven has the ability to see what is going on down on Earth, then it is my opinion that ALL CREATURES in Heaven have the ability to see what is going on down on Earth.

Do you believe that the people in Heaven can see what is going on down on Earth?

 

[SAHM02]

I’m not harping on Catholics for praying to the saints. I just don’t see the point of it. Afterall, God is the Creator of the heavens and the earth and knows all. He just seems like the best one to go to.

God is the best one to go too!

However at the same time, why do we ask our family member to pray for us and with us?

I can tell you last night I emailed my sister and asked her to say some prayers for my son who is sick. Why I did I do this, why didn’t I just go to God?

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Okay, let’s say I’m a member of a church and I have a problem. I want to go to God (of course). But I ask those in my congregation to go to God (on my behalf) too–figuring that “where 2 or 3 are gathered in my name, there am I in the midst of them” and “the prayer of the righteous availeth much”, and that “we are all members of the body of Christ.”

See, the bottom line is not that I am going “to others” instead of “to God alone”.

Everytime I speak to a saint, it is to ask the Saint’s prayers to God, on my behalf. Even if I ask St. Jude for intercession in a hopeless cause, I’m not asking Jude **instead of **God. Any power that God gives through Jude (and we do know that anything that any of us does is only through God’s help–we could not be in existance without Him!), is always with God as the original source, and no one else.

Any ‘answer to prayer’ will come from God alone–but it may be through another (a saint, or somebody living on earth who may be guided by God). Ever experienced an overwhelming urge to call somebody and found out later that he or she had been contemplating suicide but was saved by that phone call reminding him/her somebody cared? But even though you helped, who was the ultimate source for the good? God.

 

[contemplative]

I need help.

Dear open mind,
Try reading ‘Making Saints’ by Kenneth Woodward. It contains an excellent comprehensive look at how saints have been recognized and canonized thoughout history. Reading this book will answer your questions plus more. I’m not even 1/2 way through the book and already I am enlightened. The book contains over 400 pages…expect much very interesting information.
Contemplative

 

[Blue_Serenity]

Do you believe that the people in Heaven can see what is going on down on Earth?

You betcha!

 

[SAHM02]

You betcha!

Catholic believe the “Saints” are IN Heaven…however you keep saying that those are “DEAD” people.

How can DEAD people see what is going on down on Earth?

 

[water]

True. I just simply don’t understand why you would pray to saints and such, instead of directly to God.
That’s all I was trying to say.
I apologize for my lack of knowledge in debating but I’ve only been a church-goer for 7 years now, after a lifetime of not even knowing God really.

God bless you, Blue Serenity. You are not the only one; though I am Catholic for my whole life, my spiritual life has actually in progress in the last 5 months. I used to go to church quite often, but I wasn’t really devoted as I thought I did. My life has been changed for the better after one year of praying partial of the rosary. I love God more than I ever did before - I don’t mean that I am not sinful though.

You are right, God is the best and we can come to him directly. I do that everyday. However, God create us to love one another; hence, we pray for each others - and you also agree with this. This does not exclude those in Heaven for they are now loving you more than ever before.

Again, I am happy for you that God gives you graces to know Him. Imagining both you and I never knew God, how scary this thought be!

Also, if you don’t mind sharing with us how you’ve come to know God - that would be great. I love to read such stories.

 

[Blue_Serenity]

Again, I am happy for you that God gives you graces to know Him. Imagining both you and I never knew God, how scary this thought be!

Also, if you don’t mind sharing with us how you’ve come to know God - that would be great. I love to read such stories.

I can’t imagine how my life would be without God! I feel like a void was filled seven years ago, when my husband (boyfriend at the time) introduced me to his congregational church and to God.
I’ll pm you my story, as to not derail this thread.
Thank you for being charitable to me!

 

[onmywayagain]

You betcha!

How can you believe that people in heaven can see what is going on on earth? You keep reffering to them as “dead.” I just don’t understand.

 

[water]

I can’t imagine how my life would be without God! I feel like a void was filled seven years ago, when my husband (boyfriend at the time) introduced me to his congregational church and to God.
I’ll pm you my story, as to not derail this thread.
Thank you for being charitable to me!

Great! Thank you, Blue Serenity. I have some friends who know God through marriage and they’ve become so devoted to God. That is a blessing.

 

[Blue_Serenity]

How can you believe that people in heaven can see what is going on on earth? You keep reffering to them as “dead.” I just don’t understand.

They are dead to the world. They are in Heaven with God and watch over us here on earth. When they see that we are in distress or something, they ask God to watch over us.
That’s what I believe, anyways. I’m sure Catholics are taught differently but that’s what I believe.

 

[SAHM02]

They are dead to the world. They are in Heaven with God and watch over us here on earth. When they see that we are in distress or something, they ask God to watch over us.
That’s what I believe, anyways. I’m sure Catholics are taught differently but that’s what I believe.

If they are Dead to the world; why do they watch over us? What do they care, they are Dead to the world.

Also how can they understand what they see if they can’t hear?

Try watching a T.V. show or movie, espiecally one that you have NEVER seen before with NO Sound…NO HEARING… How do you know what the people names are? How do you know what is making them distress? How do you know what to do for them, what they need from God?

 

[Blue_Serenity]

If they are Dead to the world; why do they watch over us? What do they care, they are Dead to the world.

Also how can they understand what they see if they can’t hear?

Try watching a T.V. show or movie, espiecally one that you have NEVER seen before with NO Sound…NO HEARING… How do you know what the people names are? How do you know what is making them distress? How do you know what to do for them, what they need from God?

How do you know your saints hear your prayers?

I’m not pretending to know the supernatural. It takes faith. My faith says that folks in Heaven watch over us and tell God when something goes wrong and ask God to help us (by praying).
You’re trying to use logic here and it’s not working. It’s a matter of faith and what you believe. I believe one thing, you another.
Why can’t you let it go?

 

[SAHM02]

I don’t know if you read my profile or not, however it states that I’m Christian.

Honestly I’m just trying to understand Scripture as much as you!

I also don’t pretend to know the supernatural. It’s because I don’t know the supernatural I can’t tell Catholic they are wrong, that the Saints can’t hear them. Just like I can’t tell you that Saints do hear you.

From what I see, Catholics and some Non-Catholics believe in the intercession of Saints. From what I can tell you believe in the intercession of Saints. The method is what is different.

From what I see and read: You believe that Saints and Angels intercede for you. However you NEVER ask them too. The Angels and Saints just one day happened to look your way and say: Lord, Blue S. needs your help. She is having problems with her hubby. Lord, I ask that it is YOUR will that they get over this argument. I’m sure that if you and hubby are fighting then you are also praying to God to help get over it. So in your case you would have an angel and/or Saint, yourself and husband praying to God for help. (3 or more people praying)

From what I see and read: Catholics believe they can have a little bit more active role when it come to the Saints and Angels interceding for them. Catholic do not wait or hope that one day the Saint or Angel is looking their way. They Say: Saint So-So, over here. Hubby and I are having problems. Please go to God and ask that it is HIS will that we get over this argument. I’m also sure that the Catholic’s also turn to God himself and are saying prayers to HIM to help get over it. So in the Catholic case they would have angel and/or Saint, husband and wife praying to God for help. (3 or more people praying)

So in the long run what’s the difference…. The end result is the same.

In case one (non-Catholic) it’s A+B = C and case two (Catholic) it’s A+D = C…. both paths get you to C so does it matter?

 

[Blue_Serenity]

So in the long run what’s the difference…. The end result is the same.

In case one (non-Catholic) it’s A+B = C and case two (Catholic) it’s A+D = C…. both paths get you to C so does it matter?

To me, personally, no. I’m not one of those Protestants that thinks everyone should do things MY way. I believe what I was taught because it makes sense to me.
You can believe what you were taught, as long as it brings you closer to God, because that’s why we were all put on this earth: to know, love and serve God!
And no, sorry, I didn’t look at your profile. I guess I should have. I apologize! Debating is not my strong suit at all.

 

[SAHM02]

To me, personally, no. I’m not one of those Protestants that thinks everyone should do things MY way. I believe what I was taught because it makes sense to me.
You can believe what you were taught, as long as it brings you closer to God, because that’s why we were all put on this earth: to know, love and serve God! And no, sorry, I didn’t look at your profile. I guess I should have. I apologize! Debating is not my strong suit at all.

I’m at the point that I know longer just blindly believe what I was taught.

I am questioning, because I seek to have a deeper understanding of God. I seek to get to know him better.

I am questioning, because I’m trying to understand what others believe, so I know where I fit in at.

Honestly when it comes to those in Heaven, I was never directly taught one thing or another. I have my own ideas about things; however what I’m trying to do is see if MY ideas truly fit in with God’s ideas.

I’m questioning because I want to see what God, has lead you to believe.
Will you say that your believes regarding Heaven are from God?

God Bless.