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Church_Militant
Guest
Gross but true.
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Church_Militant
Guest
**Yep, Luke 9:23 Then he said to all, “If anyone wishes to come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me.
Yes, our conversion is a daily process throughout our lives!
**
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johnnyc176
Guest
Well we know this…everyone in Heaven will be Catholic!
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Wesrock
Guest
This is very much the Catholic belief, too.
The Catholic position on works isn’t a checklist type mentality; it’s to do with theological differences on what our own role is in responding to God’s grace.
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fhansen
Guest
This is true in so many ways, even if I’m not always sure of the intention or understanding behind any particular evangelists use of the term. But in traditional teachings of the Church, *man was made for communion with God, *direct, personal, communion. This is the relationship which was shattered at the Fall and this is what Jesus came to restore, reconcile, heal. This communion is described as the indwelling of the Trinity, sanctifying grace- its Gods life in us, ‘apart from whom we can do nothing’. John 15:5 This is about real change, and is the essence of the New Covenant. Our faith, in response to grace, reestablishes this relationship. And I think Luther meant to restore this personal aspect of our faith, even though he ended up messing up the theology that was already in place to correctly teach, support and nurture it.
After entering the Kingdom of God via faith and Baptism (the “sacrament of faith”), we are now in a state of rectitude or justice vis a vis God. Other sacraments help us to maintain and grow that state, that relationship, that knowledge of and love for God.The Eucharist, or Communion, acknowledges our continuous need to partake of Him, to feed off of Him, again, to commune. And Reconciliation recognizes that, by our actions, we can break or even destroy that relationship again, but can repent and have it restored with a true change of heart, where “re-communion” is realized and partaking therefore resumed. Over the centuries the sacraments have given us a sort of structured, physical, and simple means to live and work this out. Catholic theology, the theology of the gospel, is built into them. This can all be done mechanically, of course, without sincerity, but that’s up to us and how we’ve grown-or failed to grow-in our relationship with God.
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rcwitness
Guest
Perhaps it is a phrase, technically, more common in Evangelical services. Yet, the essence is definitely at Mass! I always have seen the Word of God and His Son being called upon and offered to give us strength, hope and love in the Mass.
Faith is a gift of God to mankind which gives us sight and hope for Spiritual realities we don’t merely see with carnal senses.
Yes. We also need to have faith in order to ask this. We need to believe that Jesus is the Son of God before we allow Him to be our God.
No, not hokey at all!
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Lenten_ashes
Guest
Sure, I’m positive many of those conversions are legit, such as your momma’s.
Probably many conversions start with a broken person watching TV and repeating a sincere prayer.
I’m just naturally cynical as I know the power of suggestion is high. People see it and they do it, sometimes without proper intent.
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rcwitness
Guest
Something to distinguish with “receiving Jesus in our hearts” and “remaining in Him”, is Holy Communion.
Jesus, obviously, does not come into our hearts in a literal sense. We receive the Word from God. From there, we have daily choices to follow this or that from the Lord.
The parable of the sower comes to mind…
“Hear then the parable of the sower. When any one hears the word of the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what is sown in his heart; this is what was sown along the path. As for what was sown on rocky ground, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; yet he has no root in himself, but endures for a while, and when tribulation or persecution arises on account of the word, immediately he falls away. As for what was sown among thorns, this is he who hears the word, but the cares of the world and the delight in riches choke the word, and it proves unfruitful. As for what was sown on good soil, this is he who hears the word and understands it; he indeed bears fruit, and yields, in one case a hundredfold, in another sixty, and in another thirty.”
If we receive the Word of Jesus, we should seek His Supper! And if we seek His Supper, we should be sure to receive this Substance of Jesus in a worthy manner. He obviously did not tell us to only receive Him in our hearts, but to physically partake of what He called His body and blood!
Now, if Jesus criticized the Jews (who did not believe) for placing their hope in bread (manna), why did Jesus establish His Supper with bread?
Because, bread is tangible! And something tangible is able to hold us accountable to Him. And He is able to bring us together through His bread, even as God brings His sheep together through the manifestation of His Son.
We are able to use mere bread, yet see it as not ordinary bread, but what it really is, because faith in His Word is the foundation of His Supper meal.
Jesus, obviously, does not come into our hearts in a literal sense. We receive the Word from God. From there, we have daily choices to follow this or that from the Lord.
The parable of the sower comes to mind…
“Hear then the parable of the sower. When any one hears the word of the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what is sown in his heart; this is what was sown along the path. As for what was sown on rocky ground, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; yet he has no root in himself, but endures for a while, and when tribulation or persecution arises on account of the word, immediately he falls away. As for what was sown among thorns, this is he who hears the word, but the cares of the world and the delight in riches choke the word, and it proves unfruitful. As for what was sown on good soil, this is he who hears the word and understands it; he indeed bears fruit, and yields, in one case a hundredfold, in another sixty, and in another thirty.”
If we receive the Word of Jesus, we should seek His Supper! And if we seek His Supper, we should be sure to receive this Substance of Jesus in a worthy manner. He obviously did not tell us to only receive Him in our hearts, but to physically partake of what He called His body and blood!
Now, if Jesus criticized the Jews (who did not believe) for placing their hope in bread (manna), why did Jesus establish His Supper with bread?
Because, bread is tangible! And something tangible is able to hold us accountable to Him. And He is able to bring us together through His bread, even as God brings His sheep together through the manifestation of His Son.
We are able to use mere bread, yet see it as not ordinary bread, but what it really is, because faith in His Word is the foundation of His Supper meal.
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Wannano
Guest
I don’t understand why if you believe transubstantiation literally means you ate Christ’s body and blood that “obviously He does not come into our hearts in a literal sense.” When you eat something it is fairly quickly assimilated into your bloodstream which is pumped by the heart itself.
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rcwitness
Guest
Yes, and that’s kind of my point. That we are called to receive His Word, and Substance.
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Wesrock
Guest
This might be getting overly technical or grotesque, but the Real Presence is only in the elements so long as the species of bread remains. Once the species of bread is broken down and the consumed elements are no longer chemically identical to bread the Real Presence is no longer there. The Real Presence… to put it one way, isn’t there through to the “end stages” of digestion.
Edit: Substituted the word “species” for “accidents”.
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rcwitness
Guest
This did cross my mind. I wasn’t sure how to explain it as you have.
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rcwitness
Guest
Wesrock made a relative point. And I should have distinguished what I mean by receiving the substance of Jesus from an intention to “receive Jesus in our hearts”.
We don’t receive His Eucharist in order to have Jesus in our literal hearts. We receive His Eucharist because we are fully joined to His life which was given through His Incarnation, Teaching, death and resurrection.
We are unable to receive the Spirit in our soul without His manifestation and passion in the flesh.
Now, we no longer regard Him in the flesh, yet He still has flesh! That body and blood is glorified, but hidden from the senses. Just as He hid His glory while He was subjected to the flesh, yet revealed His hidden glory on the Mount. He does not want us to see His presence in the Eucharist with our carnal senses. Then it would not be a participation in faith, but what the Jews (who did not believe) desired.
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Tommy999
Guest
I asked Jesus into my heart as a teenager at a Billy Graham Cusade and meant it with all my heart, and have been trying to follow Him ever since, with God’s help.
To me, it was a kick-start to my Christian faith but not the end-all moment. I had been baptized as a child in the Presbyterian faith tradition but church had mostly been just a list of religious routines and do’s and don’ts prior to that experience at the Crusade when Christ’s presence became palpable. I suspect this is how it is for a good deal of rank-and-file Catholics and mainline Protestants, although on these forums I believe the vast majority are committed Catholics whose faith is near and dear to them.
Our faith journey is a continuing one in which we are to grow and mature in Christ as we continue in our faith, not a one-time event as some evangelicals think.
One thing I like and appreciate about Catholicism is that I believe it is able to fuel and build upon what was kick-started through the initial “come to Jesus” experience that I experienced when I opened up my heart and allowed Christ to come into my life. Even though I am not Catholic, I have benefited greatly from my time on these forums, and have hopefully matured from the interactions. I thank all of you who have helped me along the way.
The Catholic sacraments of Reconciliation and the Eucharist as well as Adoration are part of the continued growing that Catholics have to their advantage that us evangelicals don’t have in our Christian walk. These are aspects that draw me to Catholicism as possibly the missing piece in my faith journey that has otherwise been a good and fulfilling one thus far.
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Evangelical_chr
Guest
I see everyone has an idea of how they understand this common method of asking the holy spirit to indwell in you.
In acts 19 saint Paul said to the 12 Galatians .what were you baptised into. ?
And he layed hands on them and they began to prophecy and praise God automatically as the spirit directed.
This is why in the book of Galatians he said did you receive the holy spirit by the opinions of other teacher’s preacher’s.
Because they had been baptised into salvation and repentance.
A lot of people have been baptised into repentance. And think that is it. And believing the teaching of people who lack the power of God
And the signs following the spirit of God.
Its like being an ideological. Quoting scripture without the holy spirit. Cherry picking scripture. Is fun of course . and everyone does it
Gbu
In acts 19 saint Paul said to the 12 Galatians .what were you baptised into. ?
And he layed hands on them and they began to prophecy and praise God automatically as the spirit directed.
This is why in the book of Galatians he said did you receive the holy spirit by the opinions of other teacher’s preacher’s.
Because they had been baptised into salvation and repentance.
A lot of people have been baptised into repentance. And think that is it. And believing the teaching of people who lack the power of God
And the signs following the spirit of God.
Its like being an ideological. Quoting scripture without the holy spirit. Cherry picking scripture. Is fun of course . and everyone does it
Gbu
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rcwitness
Guest
And so the sure and orthodox means is Baptism, Apostolic Teaching (Sacred Scripture/Sacred Tradition, Confirmation (Laying on Hands) and Holy Communion. We are to receive these things as from God, not men.
Yet Paul was guided by God to lay out before Peter what he was preaching (so he was not “running in vain”)
Because they had been baptised into salvation and repentance.
Yes, we should never neglect the Spirits guidance. And we should not show partiality to any man. Paul sought confirmation through Peter’s office within the Church, yet showed no partiality to him because of his position.
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Michael_Francis
Guest
Off topic posts have been removed. Please remain on topic of "Asking Jesus into your heart "
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Evangelical_chr
Guest
I have seen thousands of people who’s life has changed as a result of thus simple scripture teaching.
As jesus said he will not cast anyone out who comes to him.
And as saint Paul said romans 10 8-9-10
Confess and believe.
And it is the holy spirit that does the work in you.
It is not by your effort. So no one can boast.
But it sounds to easy to the religious mind.
But it does work. And you have to just start some where
As jesus said he will not cast anyone out who comes to him.
And as saint Paul said romans 10 8-9-10
Confess and believe.
And it is the holy spirit that does the work in you.
It is not by your effort. So no one can boast.
But it sounds to easy to the religious mind.
But it does work. And you have to just start some where
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rcwitness
Guest
You seem to be arguing something that no one has disputed… Scripture can inspire man to receive Jesus. Scripture is materially sufficient for Salvation! The goal, however, is not the minimum necessary to accept the Word, though it be a new beginning towards God, which is the goal for the unbeliever.
Our measure is not the unbeliever, but Jesus. And He offers life in its fullness. He offers an assembly of believers, who need their gifts , and all hear Scripture, pray together, and Commune at His table!
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Wannano
Guest
I have read several posters stating that the so called Eucharistic Miracles are absolute proof of Transubstantiation.
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