Asking my boyfriend to marry me

[Irishmom2]

OP, you are in a difficult place. Speaking for myself, I would never want to be waiting around for someone to ask me to marry him. Especially since he knows you want to be married, and his response is just a delay tactic. He says one thing, but his actions are saying something else. Yes, you love him, but you should ask yourself why you would want to be with someone that won’t commit to you even after you have his child.

If it were me, I would be packing up my things, getting a lawyer to set up custody and moving out. You should love yourself and your child more than staying with someone that does not feel the same way about you, and who also does not share even the most basic of Catholic beliefs with you.

 

[JMMJ]

At this point, you have a child in the mix. The child’s best interests have to come first. Your boyfriend may just not be the marrying kind. It may not mean he is any less devoted to you. Honestly, these things should be worked out well before children arrive on the scene. But that is water under the bridge.

If it were me, I would tell your boyfriend if there is no marriage to take place, then the two of you need to go visit a lawyer and get the paperwork drawn up to create as many protections as possible for your child. This will vary from state-to-state, etc.

The fact that your current situation goes against your value system is very unfortunate. But, again, your child has to come first. For those telling you to break up with the father, think long and hard about the effect that will have on a child. These are complicated matters. There is no “blanket” correct answer here.

Given the reasons he is giving for not marrying now, I would have to say my gut tells me he isn’t getting married and he has his reasons why. Doubtful they are financial, since you are already living together as a married couple and family unit. I would tell him it is time to be honest about it. You deserve that much.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

From a Catholic perspective, we cannot advocate the OP continuing indefinitely in this relationship unmarried. The “good of the child” doesn’t justify living in grave sin and risking your soul as well as being a party to boyfriend’s sin and setting a bad moral example for the child. This isn’t good for the child.

So unless they’re going to live together with no sexual relations, which is unlikely, advising OP to think about staying in the relationship unmarried is against Church teaching and immoral.

 

[Convert3]

I hope you have a plan for if the two of you split. You need to be able to provide for you and your child. Yes, the father should pay support, but some don’t.
We are also responsible for our own soul, which I hope you have discussed with your priest.

 

[MNathaniel]

Your boyfriend may just not be the marrying kind. It may not mean he is any less devoted to you.

That’s exactly what it means. He is categorically less devoted to her, and persistent in refusing to become more devoted to her. Marriage would be what actual devotion to her looks like.

Agreed on the fact that the child in the mix gives a reason to not walk away immediately. Even with the child in the mix I’m sceptical about whether it will really be best for the child to be raised around her immature “shaman” father who refuses to marry her mother. But yes, because they have a child together – and only because they have a child together – I wouldn’t want to discourage this woman from at least trying to figure out a way that this relationship can work, hopefully in conversation with a trusted priest who knows her situation.

But can we not promote any illusions about a man who refuses to marry the mother of his child, being equally “devoted” as a man who proposes marriage himself? He’s basically openly declaring that there’s a level of devotion he’s not yet interested in entering into (whatever he thinks ‘marriage’ means – all we know so far is the absurd notion that he thinks he’s less financially responsible for his family now than he will be after the ceremony).

 

[JMMJ]

The concept of marriage doesn’t mean the same thing to everyone. I wouldn’t judge his level of devotion. Maybe he is just a weak coward.

 

[JMMJ]

There is all kind of immorality going on here, so I don’t think you can say one aspect of the situation is more immoral than another. No matter what decision is made (except the willing marriage of both partners), the child is going to be in a bad spot. Relation stays together, and child witnesses father basically saying I don’t love your mother enough to get it on paper to protect my family (nevermind the Catholic belief of the sacramental piece of marriage). Not what I want any child to have to grow up knowing.

On the other hand, splitting up is turning a child’s world upside down. Sure, I know people will argue that kids are resilient. They usually are, but it doesn’t mean they don’t carry scars with them for the rest of their lives. Not exactly moral to put a kid in that situation unless it is absolutely necessary (physical abuse is taking place, or neglect, for example).

I just don’t care for it when the advice is to just split up because the person giving the advice finds the relationship to be immoral. Every situation is different, and I believe that above all else, the child should come first. That may mean different things to different people, of course. Probably best for OP to speak to her priest and a counselor to figure this out.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I don’t think you can say one aspect of the situation is more immoral than another.

On this forum, Catholics are expected to give answers that are in accordance with Catholic teaching.

I presume you’re not Catholic from your responses. From a Catholic standpoint, whether you “think” or “don’t think” one moral issue is important is not relevant. Especially since this thread is not in the Non-Catholic Religions forum, so the OP is presumably seeking a Catholic Answer, not an opinion that is at odds with the Church.

Your statement above is not in accordance with Church teaching. It is therefore in error.

 

[JMMJ]

Living together without having sexual relations may be what is best. I have known priests that advise just that in this type of situation. Very complicated, and many factors to consider.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

If the couple is planning to marry, then they could certainly discuss with their priest whether they could continue to live together as brother and sister until the wedding date.

However, if the man doesn’t want to marry her in the foreseeable future, it seems pretty far-fetched that he would agree to live in a faithful but sexless union indefinitely, especially since he’s not Catholic and not even Christian. It could happen, but the probability would seem to be very low.

 

[Lea101]

Out of curiosity, what sort of responsibilities are you thinking of here?

Based on @alexisrm2927’s post, they are living together, they are raising a child together. It sounds like they are married for all practical purposes, except on paper. What additional responsibilities are you thinking would materialize once they formalize this arrangement?

Legal stuff like alimony for instance. Easy to break up with a girlfriend, not a wife. There’s also a psychological element, as marriage is seen as further commitment where he’s a husband and if they break up, he will always be a divorcee. You’re right that they’re like a married couple in terms of actual behaviour, but the point I was trying to get across is that there a guys who like having a wife…they don’t like being a husband though.

Not saying this is OP’s boyfriend, obviously

 

[Lea101]

Not exactly moral to put a kid in that situation unless it is absolutely necessary (physical abuse is taking place, or neglect, for example).

That’s not quite what the Catholic Church teaches here, if we are talking about two unmarried people.

It would be moral/morally neutral if two unmarried people break up despite having a child if they don’t want to marry each other. If someone like OP meets someone else, that marriage would be valid.

This will also piss off a lot of people, but divorce won’t be as scarring if the parents act like adults and co parent effectively. It seems like their daughter should be less than 3 years old, so a breakup wouldn’t scar her daughter.

It’s easier said than done, because OP seems to love him. I just don’t think she would be too happy if she only got a ring because she asked for it.

Was watching trash daytime TV years ago, and the ladies were talking about the type of guy that will even propose to get out of the marriage talks, but will have a really long engagement and will eventually break up once they’re financially dependent enough to “upgrade”.

This reminded me of an ex colleague in her 30s who was living with her boyfriend, so hence the sour taste in my mouth. I feel for OP because it’s not easy.

 

[Sunbreak]

It seems like he doesn’t want to get married and likes it just fine the way it is. To say he wants to be more financially prepared is just an excuse. Since you are living together, he is presumably already providing financially and is legally required to do so for the child. The results of living together have more implications than just financial. For example, he has no rights to information and no say in treatment and possibly even no visitation rights if you are injured or seriously ill and are in the hospital.

 

[bluerose]

For example, he has no rights to information and no say in treatment and possibly even no visitation rights if you are injured or seriously ill and are in the hospital.

This is what finally convinced a friend of mine to marry her long-time boyfriend (30 years living together, he was almost 70, she was almost 60). He slipped on the ice in his workshop and broke his leg so badly he needed surgery to pin it back together… and because they were not married, she could not make any medical decisions on his behalf, nor even see him unless he asked for her since she was legally not related to him in any way.

 

[Lifeisbeautiful3]

He slipped on the ice in his workshop and broke his leg so badly he needed surgery to pin it back together… and because they were not married, she could not make any medical decisions on his behalf, nor even see him unless he asked for her since she was legally not related to him in any way.

Recognizing that this thread is designed to help promote marriage, I’m not saying this is necessarily relevant. But, that specific issue can be addressed through a medical power of attorney.

 

[Anicette]

That’s not quite what the Catholic Church teaches here, if we are talking about two unmarried people.

It would be moral/morally neutral if two unmarried people break up despite having a child if they don’t want to marry each other. If someone like OP meets someone else, that marriage would be valid.

No. That someone would be free to marry someone else does not mean it’s morally neutral to break with the father of our child.
It is a serious moral question both on religious and natural perspective as they are married in everything “but” and the break up will affect the child too.

It seems like their daughter should be less than 3 years old, so a breakup wouldn’t scar her daughter.

It’s incorrect. I don’t know where you had this strange idea. Any parents with a less than 3 years old know that they had already lived already a lot, and a lot of life fundations and scars happens between the woomb and the 3 years old.

Religious morally don’t work apart from natural morality, both work together.

Ideally, the more moral situation would be the one that would allowed the family to be united with the parents in a correct moral situation (married).
Before marriage, it’s not too late to resume abstinence. believe me, some couples choose this way. The woman can just say “'no” the man cannot force her unless he wants to become a rapist.
Of course, there is always the risk that the man don’t accept the situation or the pression to marry. It’s possible that he decides to break up, or make her pay for it in one way or another.

 

[Anicette]

OP,

someone here suggests to ask to set a date for the next year.

Yet, It may be too late for the next marriage season. With the pandemic, it’s possible that many planned marriage of this year will be replanned in 2021 and the catholic planning may be complete. We also don’t know how the sanitary will be, so it might not been the best idea if you want to gather family or be sure it will not be annuled at the last minute.

It’s also possible that because of your disparity of cult, the priest wish you to have a longer preparation.

But what may be important, is to ask him, WHEN do he sees himself get married? tell him to propose his date. it may make himself think deeply of this question instead of feeling no choice over the pressure.
Is having a Catholic marriage is a problem for him?

Equally, and I know it will be paradoxal with the last sentence, is according to me, to stop living in sin- intimate relationships to be in a correct situation before God. It’s likely that he won’t like this situation, but if the one part is determined, the other cannot really force the other. It might help him motivated him to marry you… or to leave.

 

[Dolphin]

“I want to be more financially prepared and be able to provide more for you and our daughter.”

So he has no problem currently living with you and your daughter and supporting you both but the second marriage is mentioned, he suddenly isn’t ‘ready’?

We live tougher already and it’s nearly having everything a married couple does have

If this is the case, then his comment on financial preparedness makes even less sense since your lifestyle wouldn’t change.

As Jason Evert has said many times, he wants all the aspects of marriage without the official commitment to it.

To me, I know I am living in sin and I feel for some time

If you recognize this and he does not want to marry, you should follow what the Church says which is to life as brother and sister (no premarital sex) until you are married.

I’m sorry if this sounds brutal but we can’t sugarcoat the truth when your soul depends on it.

 

[Dolphin]

Lets not forget, when your child was baptized you promised to raise your child in the faith. Your current lifestyle is not setting a good example to your child in terms of raising her in the faith. She is growing up in a home where she sees that living with someone while not being married is fine.

 

[Lea101]

It is a serious moral question both on religious and natural perspective as they are married in everything “but” and the break up will affect the child too.

The thing is, Catholics don’t have this concept of being in married in some ways not others. You’re married or not, especially if you’re Catholic where you would need to have a valid marriage.

Are you implying it’s a sin for a Catholic woman to break up with a non Catholic man for reasons other than abuse? Not quite sure what you’re saying. She’s not obligated to stay with a man who’s not willing to raise her children in her faith, who refuse to marry her, or similar reasons.

You can argue that it is prudent of her to put in more effort to make the relationship work, than she would if she was childless, for the sake of her child. I would agree with that. But calling it immoral if she breaks up for any other reason besides abuse (which was what I was replying to) suggests some sort of spectrum of marriage here, where she’s expected to live out vows she never took.

If the Church allows an unwed mother to marry someone else, it’s moral. It doesn’t make sense to say that the Church allows something but it doesn’t mean that it’s morally neutral.

It’s incorrect. I don’t know where you had this strange idea. Any parents with a less than 3 years old know that they had already lived already a lot, and a lot of life fundations and scars happens between the woomb and the 3 years old

Read it in full, please. A lot of problems we see at this age can be mitigated by effective co parenting. A lot of the effects we see is usually because divorces in real life are messy and bitter, where the infant is exposed to tension and a disruption of routine.

Before marriage, it’s not too late to resume abstinence. believe me, some couples choose this way. The woman can just say “'no” the man cannot force her unless he wants to become a rapist

This usually works when the partner is understands or is persuaded to Catholic teachings. Otherwise from his perspective, he has a girlfriend that won’t have sex with him until he marries her. An ultimatum, basically. That’s no way to start a marriage and the woman will definitely feel the effects of it soon enough. She can tell him that she’s not having sex (like…right now!), but it has to be handled properly. Tell him that she went back to the faith and wants to act accordingly in all areas in her life including sex, and then discuss what means for their relationship. If he wants to stay, let him know that means they’re waiting till marriage so she can practise her faith. If he doesn’t agree, let him know she won’t compromise and they would have to split.