Asperges Me Prayer Chant Notation

  • Thread starter Thread starter myriad1
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
M

myriad1

Guest
I am designing a nice “Asperges me / Vidi aquam” prayer card for Mass with full chant notation. I have the notation with the Latin words beneath. Now, to complete the card, I need the English words beneath the notation and Latin words. Does anyone know of a link online where I can view these two prayers with the Latin and English beneath the chant notation so that I can use them to refer to?

Thanks in advance for any assistance.
 
It’s kinda small, but this one has both under the chant notation.



Although looking at the English, it’s a bit of an odd translation…
 
Thanks TigerKitty and Matt. Matt, that is exactly what I need: the precise positioning of each English syllable under the notes. But, I agree with you: the translation is probably not suitable for any Catholic priests who may want the card or Anglicans either.

This is kind of a needle in the haystack search apparently. 🙂
 
myriad1 said:
I am designing a nice “Asperges me / Vidi aquam” prayer card for Mass with full chant notation. I have the notation with the Latin words beneath. Now, to complete the card, I need the English words beneath the notation and Latin words. Does anyone know of a link online where I can view these two prayers with the Latin and English beneath the chant notation so that I can use them to refer to?

Thanks in advance for any assistance.
Click to expand...
musicasacra.com

They answer questions, they have the Gregorian Missal free for download…all kinds of goodies 🙂
 
mattkubes said:
Although looking at the English, it’s a bit of an odd translation…
Click to expand...
Any English interlinear translation like that, especially because of the word order and thought flow, will seem odd, especially if you want to construct a proper English sentence out of it. (Remember sentence diagrams?) But it makes it easier to follow when one sings the Latin.

That said, I think the ICEL tried, but AFAIK there is no official English translation(s) to Asperges Me/Vidi Aquam.
 
ProVobis said:
Any English interlinear translation like that, especially because of the word order and thought flow, will seem odd, especially if you want to construct a proper English sentence out of it. (Remember sentence diagrams?) But it makes it easier to follow when one sings the Latin.

That said, I think the ICEL tried, but AFAIK there is no official English translation(s) to Asperges Me/Vidi Aquam.
Click to expand...
Sure there is. It is in the Roman Missal, as one of the options for the penitential rite.
 
Thanks for the comments everyone. I’ve scrapped the idea of putting English words under the chant notation in my design of a good “Asperges me/Vidi aquam” card. From what I have read online, the prayers just don’t sound good in English and there are conflicts on which English translation to use. Plus, hardly anyone would probably want it anyway.

However, I have seen a variety of ways that the “Asperges me/Vidi aquam” is presented with chant notation. Three seem to be the most popular so I have typeset three different versions of a good “Asperges me/Vidi aquam” card with Latin notation. They all look good to me but I don’t know if they are what is needed or not.

For those of you who are knowledgeable about the Latin Mass, I would like to ask you for your opinions and to take a look at the ]5 page pdf file that contains all three versions that I’ve designed:

myriadcreativeconcepts.com/Assets/Images/Latin-Asperges-Me-3-drafts.pdf
  • Pages one and two are reverse sides of one another. This is Version A.
  • Pages three and four are reverse sides of one another. This is Version B.
  • Page five is a one-sided card. This is Version C.
My intention, of course, is to design cards that are practical and what are needed. Are any of these cards or all of them what is truly needed?

Thanks in advance for taking the time to review this pdf file. I am looking forward to your opinions about its design whether good or bad. By the way, if you like any of them, please feel free to download and print the pdf with my compliments.
 
A couple of comments:
  1. Látin does not réally contáin áccent marks. Er, I mean to say, Latin does not really contain accent marks. They are added for convenience to texts that are meant to be sung or spoken, but they do not belong elsewhere, such as in headings, the word antíphona which is not spoken, and descriptive sentences like “the Glória Pátri is not said, but the antiphon Aspérges Me is repeated.”
  2. Make sure you double check the music. I noticed errors in the notes on the syllable “Do” in “Asperges me, Domine,” and the “per” of “semper” in the Gloria Patri (you also have an extra bar line splitting the word in half and are missing the morae vocis (dots)). In addition, you are missing the quilismata (squiggly notes) in all, by my count, six places where they should appear.
  3. Make sure you double-check the text. For instance, there should be no comma in “egredientem,] de templo” in the various places where you have it.
  4. Make sure that the syllables of the text line up under the corresponding notes. “Mundabor” is a particularly bad offender here.
  5. What’s up with the font size of the S in “From Easter Sunday until Pentecost”? Seems a tad dinky. Also, you do not need to put “ANT. 7” in the headings for the Asperges, particularly since you are not telling us the function or mode of the Vidi Aquam (nor does anybody care). That information would normally be placed over the initial capital anyway. The source you were using obviously had a jumbo decorative capital there that didn’t allow room.
  6. As to your second and third versions, I greatly doubt the usefulness of a card that did not have the entire music for these antiphons printed. That especially goes for the one-pager: is there anyone who would have the entire Asperges and Vidi Aquam memorized, but still needs to have the drop of a minor third written out repeatedly for the following versicles and responses?
Hope that helps!
 
Mark, thank you for your detailed critique. Every project is educating me and this card is really doing so. This is my first foray into a card with notation of any kind so there is a learning curve for me with this.

From your comment, I gather that versions B and C are pretty much worthless so I will edit version A per your recommendations and repost it for review.

I had no idea that non-spoken Latin is not supposed to have diacritical marks. Just that lesson alone is invaluable. Thank you.
 
myriad1 said:
From your comment, I gather that versions B and C are pretty much worthless so I will edit version A per your recommendations and repost it for review.
Click to expand...
They would be for me, at least.
I had no idea that non-spoken Latin is not supposed to have diacritical marks. Just that lesson alone is invaluable. Thank you.
Click to expand...
Maybe this was what you meant, but to make it clearer, Latin in general does not have diacritical marks. In Church texts they are often supplied for the convenience of people who have to read or sing things, but even then the customary practice is not to put the marks on portions which will not be uttered out loud.
 
Mark, from the get-go, I was advised to really try typeset the Latin on my cards accurately because there are so many younger priests who are just now learning Latin and they would not be able to spot an error. Since I can’t read or speak Latin, except for just a little, it has been challenging to do this but I don’t mind a challenge. I just want to be accurate and to produce what is needed the best that I can.

I will upload a new version of the pdf file for review when it is ready.
 
Yes, I think that I understand what you are saying regarding the proper use of diacritical marks.
 
OK, I have made the corrections that were pointed out and have uploaded a new pdf file for all to examine for mistakes if you have a little time to spare. However, these things in quotes from your previous comment, Mark, I was unable to figure out what to correct because the notation that I have been referencing does not seem to include what yours does:

“Gloria Patri (you also have an extra bar line splitting the word in half and are missing the morae vocis (dots)). In addition, you are missing the quilismata (squiggly notes)”

If you know of a place online where I can view accurate notation, I would appreciate knowing where that is so that I can tweak any changes that need to be made no matter how small. So far as I can see, this notation seems to be correct.

Here is the link to the newly revised “Asperges me” pdf online:

myriadcreativeconcepts.com/Assets/Images/Latin-Asperges-Me-1-draft.pdf

Again, thank you to all who review this and for pointing out anything that is amiss.
 
Mark, I now understand what you mean about the mistakes regarding the quilismata notes. I didn’t even see them because I was not zoomed in enough. I thought they were other notes. I will have to update the draft again to make those changes.
 
That’s much closer. A few mistakes I still observe are:
  1. The notes on the syllables “Domi” of “Asperges me, Domine” aren’t right.
  2. In the GP of the Asperges side, you have an erroneous liquescent following the quilisma in “saeculorum.”
  3. In the Vidi Aquam, you are still missing the quilismata in “omnes,” “facti,” and the second “Alleluia.” Also, I found the separation of the syllables in “ista” and “salvi” almost impossible to make out.
  4. In the prayer at the bottom of both sides, the word “Qui” should not be capitalized.
  5. Not really a mistake, but it would be nice if you could find the proper symbols for Versicle and Response, the crossed V and R.
 
thanks for your exacting proofreading, Mark. i will correct the mistakes that you spotted. as for the symbols for Versicle and Response, I didn’t know that they existed but now that I do, I will try to find the characters so that they can be inserted. another proof will be uploaded for review when i make the corrections. thanks again, Mark.
 
I have edited the “Asperges me” card pdf and made the corrections that you pointed out, Mark. Plus, I have replaced the “V” and “R” letters with the proper characters for Versicle and Response.

Liquescents and quilismatas are tricky characters in chant notation for a novice like me because they are so easy to misread due to poor quality resolution of web pages that have somewhat fuzzy characters. Luckily, your experience with chant notation zeroes right in on these things and can spot the errors.

The latest draft has now been uploaded for further review and/or download by anyone here in this forum:

myriadcreativeconcepts.com/Latin-Asperges-Me-draft-4.pdf
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top