Assisted Suicide Bill Passes California Assembly

[Pong]

I guarantee you that it will be abused. Mark my words, I have no ounce of doubt about it. It is a step in the right, well wrong, direction. There are quite a few cases I worked on that the person could have used this to get away with murder. You just need to know the right people.

You still haven’t provided any evidence that this has been abused in the only state where it is legal. You’ve basically just repeated your own opinion and anecdotal “evidence.” Many things have the potential to be abused; it doesn’t mean they are or that we should legislate them away.

Decisions like this lessens the impact of the sactinty of life. Each of these pro-death decisions does. You are saying some lifes are not a life worth living.

No, I am saying that the autonomy of the individual takes precedence over the beliefs of the collective, religious or otherwise.

PONG: Food and water are considered normal care by the Catholic Church.

KATHLEEN ELSIE: I am well aware of what the Church considers to be ethical behaviour in these situations. This isn’t about what the Church says; it’s about what the law says.

 

[wabrams]

Let me try that again. Credible source, please.

Why don’t you actually take a minute to click on the Dr’s links within the links I provided. They are the actual documents submitted by the physicians to the court, not a summary typed up by someone else.

 

[wabrams]

http://www6.miami.edu/ethics/schiavo/2 CTs.png

Left: normal brain. Right: Terri Schiavo’s brain. By this point, it had become so filled with spinal fluid that there wasn’t enough left to let her care or speak for herself. No one’s arguing that she reacted to people entering the room, but seeing as even plants can react to changes in their environment, it’s not an overly convincing argument as to her rationality. Because she was not able to care for herself, her husband made the decision to have her feeding tube removed. When you get married, generally (unless you provide a document stating otherwise) the rights of your decision-making go to your spouse.

Those are different slices at different levels of the brain. Not exactly ‘conclusive.’

 

[AmyS]

You still haven’t provided any evidence that this has been abused in the only state where it is legal. You’ve basically just repeated your own opinion and anecdotal “evidence.” Many things have the potential to be abused; it doesn’t mean they are or that we should legislate them away.

I can not provide those statistics, 1} because the law there is new, 2} I don’t know what there laws were like before this was legalized in Oregon. If we have the potientil to protect, then we should legislate those things.

 

[Pong]

I can not provide those statistics, 1} because the law there is new,

In Oregon? I don’t think so; the law has been in place since 1997.

2} I don’t know what there laws were like before this was legalized in Oregon.

Physician assisted suicde was illegal. Period.

If we have the potientil to protect, then we should legislate those things.

Who are you protecting? The people who choose of their own free will to end their own lives? Or your own agenda?

Here are the statistics from the state of Oregon for anyone who is interested. There has clearly been no massive abuse of the law, if in fact there has been any at all.

oregon.gov/DHS/ph/pas/docs/year10.pdf

 

[BamaRider]

Nothing the California legislature does can surprise me.

 

[m134e5]

Continued…

I see nothing in here that allows for physicians to terminate the life of patients without their consent.

These things creep into society little by little. They change the culture. Slowly, these sorts of things don’t seem so bad anymore. It’s a cycle, and it will repeat itself until people wake up and realize what’s going on. Eventually, it could lead to euthanasia against the will of the person- if the person is judged unfit to make decisions for themselves. That could include children, the elderly, the disabled, the mentally ill (it is just as easy to put a “condition” in the DSM-IV- the manual of Psychological disorders- as it is to take one out, which they have done recently with things like homosexuality and transgenderism).

I believe it was Winston Churchill who once said: “those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it”.

 

[Pong]

Again, where have the crept into society? 10 years have gone by without incident in Oregon. There is no reason- none- to believe that that won’t be the case in California. This same old slippery slope argument is very tired, especially given the lack of substantiating evidence. All this business about

That could include children, the elderly, the disabled, the mentally ill (it is just as easy to put a “condition” in the DSM-IV- the manual of Psychological disorders- as it is to take one out, which they have done recently with things like homosexuality and transgenderism).

is just plain fear mongering. The issue is whether or not to let terminally ill patients choose whether or not to end their own lives. This is not euthanasia, voluntaryy, involuntary, or non-voluntary. This is physician assisted suicide. The patient must pass very stringent guideliness to be able to end his or her own life.

 

[LaLucia]

Ted Kennedy has a brain tumor and they say he only has 6 months to live or something like that. It will be interesting to watch what the family members will do for him in his final days.
They most likely will have private nurses and private doctors prescribing strong pain medication.

 

[ilovekittens]

Those are different slices at different levels of the brain. Not exactly ‘conclusive.’

No, those are the same levels of the brain. This is extremely conclusive for the irreversibility of Terri Schiavo’s condition. I’m fairly certain there was an autopsy too, which confirmed that.

 

[mlchance]

Let me try that again. Credible source, please.

IOW, please provide only sources that agree with what Pong says. Information to the contrary is unwanted and, therefore, necessarily false.

– Mark L. Chance.

 

[rinnie]

Well when it hits someone you love you will get understanding real fast. My sister-in -law of 2 weeks mind you put my brother in a home it was called a hospice home. You usually get 2 weeks, we couldnt stop it. My brother did make it 3 weeks, Thats exactly what they do no water, food, they medicate you so you cant eat, etc. I know what happened,and if i only knew then what i know now. Dear GOd, have mercy on these People. So go ahead and say anything you want it may be you sitting up there with nothing to drink, go 24 hours with nothing to drink, alone weeks, etc. try it then tell me how thats being merciful. Watch someone you love with all your heart and soul, get it put to them, and just sit there and watch them suffer, when there is nothing you can do. then come back and tell me how we need to let go. No i am sorry suicide is suicide, these people are wrong and they will pay for playing God. GOd takes us when he is ready not when the goverment or humans choose. It not for us to decide.

 

[Pong]

IOW, please provide only sources that agree with what Pong says. Information to the contrary is unwanted and, therefore, necessarily false.

Erm, no. In other words, sources that do not have an obvious bias. Mlchance- did you never learn the difference between an authoritative source and a rubbish source?

rinnie- Touching story- but that isn’t what we’re talking about. This is not about involnutary euthanasia. This is about assisted suicide.

 

[rinnie]

Erm, no. In other words, sources that do not have an obvious bias. Mlchance- did you never learn the difference between an authoritative source and a rubbish source?

rinnie- Touching story- but that isn’t what we’re talking about. This is not about involnutary euthanasia. This is about assisted suicide.

Pong whats the difference, i never even knew there was a name for what they did to my brother. How can this be legal.

 

[shockerfan]

I find it unbelievable that some Catholics on in this forum can support a law for any type of suicide. As difficult as it is to see a loved one in a dire physical condition, the teaching of the Catholic Church is clear:

2280 Everyone is responsible for his life before God who has given it to him.
It is God who remains the sovereign Master of life.
We are obliged to accept life gratefully and preserve it for his honor and the salvation of our souls.
We are stewards, not owners, of the life God has entrusted to us.
It is not ours to dispose of
Also, some here have reference Terry Schiavo. This reference from the CCC should suffice:

2277 Whatever its motives and means, direct euthanasia consists in putting an end to the lives of handicapped, sick, or dying persons.
It is morally unacceptable.
Thus an act or omission which, of itself or by intention, causes death in order to eliminate suffering constitutes a murder gravely contrary to the dignity of the human person and to the respect due to the living God, his Creator.
The error of judgment into which one can fall in good faith does not change the nature of this murderous act, which must always be forbidden and excluded

The bottom line is this: If you are Catholic, then you believe in the infallible teachings of the Catholic Church. You cannot support actions which are in direct contradiction to these teachings and still consider yourself to be a Catholic in good standing with the Church. If you don’t accept the teachings of the church, then you are something other than “Catholic”.

God Bless

 

[mlchance]

Erm, no. In other words, sources that do not have an obvious bias. Mlchance- did you never learn the difference between an authoritative source and a rubbish source?

Why, yes, I have. For example, the Church is an authoritative source when it comes to moral teachings, and the Church unequivocally condemns assisted suicide.

– Mark L. Chance.

 

[rinnie]

I find it unbelievable that some Catholics on in this forum can support a law for any type of suicide. As difficult as it is to see a loved one in a dire physical condition, the teaching of the Catholic Church is clear:

2280 Everyone is responsible for his life before God who has given it to him.
It is God who remains the sovereign Master of life.
We are obliged to accept life gratefully and preserve it for his honor and the salvation of our souls.
We are stewards, not owners, of the life God has entrusted to us.
It is not ours to dispose of
Also, some here have reference Terry Schiavo. This reference from the CCC should suffice:

2277 Whatever its motives and means, direct euthanasia consists in putting an end to the lives of handicapped, sick, or dying persons.
It is morally unacceptable.
Thus an act or omission which, of itself or by intention, causes death in order to eliminate suffering constitutes a murder gravely contrary to the dignity of the human person and to the respect due to the living God, his Creator.
The error of judgment into which one can fall in good faith does not change the nature of this murderous act, which must always be forbidden and excluded

The bottom line is this: If you are Catholic, then you believe in the infallible teachings of the Catholic Church. You cannot support actions which are in direct contradiction to these teachings and still consider yourself to be a Catholic in good standing with the Church. If you don’t accept the teachings of the church, then you are something other than “Catholic”.

God Bless

see im with you on this one. I totally agree how can you be two people. You either agree or you dont. I know we sure didnt , you would have no idea the impact it had on our family, even to this day. I was always told dont play God. I dont want any life support or etc. but i dont want anyone to kill me either. GOd will help me deal with my suffering.

 

[LaLucia]

I just want to say that I learned something new when my dad was put under Hospice care in our home. He wasn’t able to swallow water or food on his last days. My Mom would try to give him water but he would start choking on the small amount of water she would give him. His brain was not sending the message for his mouth to swallow the water or food. The only other way he could have gotten food or water was through the life support system with the tubes and that was something he didn’t want because his body and brain were starting to shut down.

I always thought that drinking water would be important to be but if
my brain nolonger sends the message to my mouth and throat to swallow the water… that means that my brain is nolonger working like it should then it will be okay not to have the water.

I do plan to have Hospice Care when my time comes. I don’t need water or food knowing that my body is already shutting down and I need to die which is something I will want if it is my time to go.

 

[rinnie]

I just want to say that I learned something new when my dad was put under Hospice care in our home. He wasn’t able to swallow water or food on his last days. My Mom would try to give him water but he would start choking on the small amount of water she would give him. His brain was not sending the message for his mouth to swallow the water or food. The only other way he could have gotten food or water was through the life support system with the tubes and that was something he didn’t want because his body and brain were starting to shut down.

I always thought that drinking water would be important to be but if
my brain nolonger sends the message to my mouth and throat to swallow the water… that means that my brain is nolonger working like it should then it will be okay not to have the water.

I do plan to have Hospice Care when my time comes. I don’t need water or food knowing that my body is already shutting down and I need to die which is something I will want if it is my time to go.

Okay but what if it wasnt your time to go, and say you had cancer,and you did want to fight it if you had a chance, and someone you trusted was taking care of you and messing up your meds and saying you didnt want to fight it, and put you butt in a home and your were fighting the meds and they kept forcing then on you. because the person who was taking care of you said you werent capable and thats what you wanted. It doesnt always work the way you think it will. trust me my brother was 39 with a brain tumor and had a dam good chance of beating it, he was smoking a cigarette and laughing and talking to me the same as i am talking to you , and the next day his *** was in the donnell house and they were killing him. and there was nothing we could do. He fought them tooth and nail. but they forced it on him. so you better hope you dont get any kind of cancer because they can throw you in and say you want to die too, even if you dont and your a goner.

 

[wabrams]

No, those are the same levels of the brain. This is extremely conclusive for the irreversibility of Terri Schiavo’s condition. I’m fairly certain there was an autopsy too, which confirmed that.

Can’t be; one slice has the frontal sinuses the other doesn’t.