Assumption of Mary? Didn't we just make this up?

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Mike_D30:
I don’t know, I’ve tried and I just can’t get around the Marian Dogmas. I don’t know how many books I can read, or articles, or radio archives I can listen too, or how much I can pray about it without any answer, or if it is an answer it’s the opposite.

This is from this topic (and I’m not picking on you Semper Fi, you made a lot of good points, and I’m sure to those who accept Marian Dogmas, this is a great point, just one that’s tough for me.):

That is tough for one to grasp, and at the same time see how we are not exalting Mary to the same stature as Christ.

For those of you strong in your faith God Bless, but not everyone is. Not everyone was blessed to be raised in a home with parents that catehchized them, or brought them up in the faith, made them attend Mass, explained the doctrines. But when you come back in and can’t come to grips with certain issues, which make you worry that you are commiting a possible offense against God, you can start to become depressed even. I think I’ll take a break from this, slow it down and start at square one again.

Thanks for all of your replies.
God bless you mike. Don’t beat yourself up about doubt - doubt isn’t sinful in itself, and you’re doing the right thing by reading up on the beliefs and keeping an open mind rather than just dismissing it out of hand as a lot of people would do.

I think previous posters have mentioned, and I can’t stress this enough, the fairly big difference between Jesus ASCENSCION and Mary’s ASSUMPTION. Jesus went bodily into heaven under his own power as God incarnate. Mary was taken into heaven by God’s (Jesus’?) power, not her own.

Can you see the difference between Enoch and Elijah being taken alive up into heaven by God as a reward for their good lives, and what Jesus did under his own power? This isn’t exalting them to the same status as God at all, it’s simply a manifestation of HIS power and love for them.

In your previous denomination were you taught that at the end of time there would be a ‘rapture’, where believers would be taken bodily into heaven? Same thing applies.

Teachings such as the Assumption, Immaculate Conception, Co-Redemption and Co-Mediation are not easy to grasp, even for a cradle Catholic like me at times. They are the Church’s way of affirming Mary’s unique status among humans - second only to that of Jesus himself. She truly is the first and best Christian of all. God knew that she would be - remember that He chose her of all women who ever have been and ever will be to bear His son. Just as Jesus was an extraordinary human being, so did Mary have to be to be fitting as his mother.

All the other apostles and disciples sometimes made mistakes, often seriously failed to grasp what Jesus taught, certainly all needed a lot of help and forgiveness time and time again. Mary, from what we see of her, really doesn’t. Even her question to the angel is much more a gesture of appropriate humility than a serious disagreement with God’s plan.

Anyways, good luck, keep reading and praying about it, and the answer will come. Know you’re in my prayers too :gopray2:
 
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Mike_D30:
This is from the book “All Generations Shall Call me Blessed”

“Scripture is silent about the death of Mary. We don’t know where or when or how she died. There is no mention of her assumption into heaven in the writings of the first five centuries. Yet within the faith of the Church there developed the conviction that Mary was assumed body and soul into heaven. From the sixth centruy onward this conviction of faith was strong in the universal church, in both East and West.”

That’s where I got the idea of nothing about until the year 600, from this book. It was an exceprt, just so we can get off that issue.
Well, I think he overstates his point here. Perhaps no one wrote explicitly about the assumption, but that doesn’t mean the kernel of the teaching wasn’t there nor that it wasn’t believed by the faithful. He isn’t trying to tell us all about this doctrine here, but only touching on it. If one digs deeper, with understanding, then it becomes clear that the concept of the assumption didn’t just appear out of nowhere in the 6th century. I recommend you read a more spiritual book on Marian teaching: The Glories of Mary by St. Alphonsus de Liguori. He quotes many biblical scholars and saints on the subject and gets more deeply into it that Fr. Manelli does, who was writing quite generally for a general audience, not in order to help deepen the faith of Catholics in particular.
I don’t know, I’ve tried and I just can’t get around the Marian Dogmas. I don’t know how many books I can read, or articles, or radio archives I can listen too, or how much I can pray about it without any answer, or if it is an answer it’s the opposite.
You’re right, of course. Reading alone doesn’t engender faith. And sometimes when we pray about something we are so anxious to have the answer that we aren’t really open to listening. It happens quite often and to everyone. I advise you to let it go for now and just live within the sacraments of the Church and let God show you in his own good time. There’s no rush, you know. And Mary understands and still loves you, as she loved her Son even when he had to be apart from her.
For those of you strong in your faith God Bless, but not everyone is. Not everyone was blessed to be raised in a home with parents that catehchized them, or brought them up in the faith, made them attend Mass, explained the doctrines. But when you come back in and can’t come to grips with certain issues, which make you worry that you are commiting a possible offense against God, you can start to become depressed even. I think I’ll take a break from this, slow it down and start at square one again.
Thanks for all of your replies.
For your encouragement I tell you that I was not brought up in a good Catholic home and catechized by devout Catholic parents. I spent 20 years of my life as an anti-Catholic Pentecostalist. I know all the arguments against the Marian doctrines and believed them at one time, too. But, God’s grace can bring enlightenment to anyone’s heart and mind. I am proof of that! Just explore the Catholic faith with simplicity and an open heart and all these things will be shown to you. Put this difficulty into the hands of Jesus and Mary by faith and then just rest in God’s love. You’ll see how good God is and how patiently he leads us into the fullness of the truth. God bless you, I will continue to pray for you, please pray for me. 🙂
 
There is of course the “Little Tradition” with a small case t!

Doubting Thomas heard of the death of Mary and went to the apostles and asked to see her body. When the tomb was opened, the body was gone.

my Priest recites this every year during RCIA and during the homily for the “Assumption of Mary” but he warns us that it is “little tradition with a small t and catholics are not required to believe this.”
 
The biggest witness on behalf of the Early Church to the Assumption is the entire lack of her relics or a city claiming to host her grave.

Think about it, what early church saint was not revered through their relics.

Ephesis had a huge Cathedral built over the grave of John, Constantine build a Bascillica over the grave of Peter.

What did they build over the Tomb of Mary? Which city claims her to hold her body?

Have you ever heard of the Abbey of the Dormition (falling asleep) in Jerusalem. Its built over a empty tomb?

Why? If they thought someone stole Mary’s body, why did no care enough to mention it.
 
Why is it that traditions by the Catholic Church are considered “made up” if there is no written documentation but the ones that are documented (real presence, intercession of saints, etc.) aren’t believed anyways by Protestants. Mike_D30, I don’t think it would matter if there was ECF documentation. Protestants wouldn’t believe it anyway.

In addition, are you saying that you believe the church really just decided one day, “Hey, don’t you think it would be cool if we made a new doctrine called the Assumption of Mary? Now, there is no evidence but it sounds great.”

The church is the Pillar of Truth. Satan hates our church and loves to see people say things like, “Didn’t we just make this up?”

God bless you.
 
The church is the Pillar of Truth. Satan hates our church and loves to see people say things like, “Didn’t we just make this up?”
Amen!
 
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Mike_D30:
This is from the book “All Generations Shall Call me Blessed”

“Scripture is silent about the death of Mary. We don’t know where or when or how she died. There is no mention of her assumption into heaven in the writings of the first five centuries. Yet within the faith of the Church there developed the conviction that Mary was assumed body and soul into heaven. From the sixth centruy onward this conviction of faith was strong in the universal church, in both East and West.”

That’s where I got the idea of nothing about until the year 600, from this book. It was an exceprt, just so we can get off that issue.

I don’t know, I’ve tried and I just can’t get around the Marian Dogmas. I don’t know how many books I can read, or articles, or radio archives I can listen too, or how much I can pray about it without any answer, or if it is an answer it’s the opposite.

This is from this topic (and I’m not picking on you Semper Fi, you made a lot of good points, and I’m sure to those who accept Marian Dogmas, this is a great point, just one that’s tough for me.):

That is tough for one to grasp, and at the same time see how we are not exalting Mary to the same stature as Christ.

For those of you strong in your faith God Bless, but not everyone is. Not everyone was blessed to be raised in a home with parents that catehchized them, or brought them up in the faith, made them attend Mass, explained the doctrines. But when you come back in and can’t come to grips with certain issues, which make you worry that you are commiting a possible offense against God, you can start to become depressed even. I think I’ll take a break from this, slow it down and start at square one again.

Thanks for all of your replies.
Hi Mike and others,

I remember when I was having trouble with the Catholic concept, teachings and such, I finally did what I probably should have done in the first place. Pray.

I asked Christ to help me understand His mother and Honor in a way that would be pleasing to Him.

After that, I finally understood and accepted Catholic teachings on Mary. Not only accepted, but embraced.

God bless,
Maria
 
A major part of the problem re Mary and other “Catholic” teachings is that some do not yet fully believe in the Holy Catholic Church, as referenced in the Creeds.

Once one believes in God - Father, Son & Holy Spirit - and the Holy Catholic Church, all falls into place.
 
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Mike_D30:
For those of you strong in your faith God Bless, but not everyone is. Not everyone was blessed to be raised in a home with parents that catehchized them, or brought them up in the faith, made them attend Mass, explained the doctrines. But when you come back in and can’t come to grips with certain issues, which make you worry that you are commiting a possible offense against God, you can start to become depressed even. I think I’ll take a break from this, slow it down and start at square one again.

Thanks for all of your replies.
Mike,

I wasn’t raised in a home where my parents catechized me, I lived with my elderly grandfather. I studied Catholicism on my own after having my Faith attacked by Fundamentalists. It took me a couple years of study and prayer to be sure my Faith was solid & I just recently worked out some other issues I had with the Church. You can struggle and even sometimes doubt, but as long as you believe Christ’s words when He said “the gates of Hell shall not prevail”… you will be fine.

God bless.
 
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