Assurance of Salvation

[ReturningToRome]

By way of introduction - After more than 35 years as a Lutheran, I joyfully returned to the Catholic Church on January 3, the Most Holy Name of Jesus. I received the beautiful sacraments of Reconciliation and the Eucharist that day. What a great relief and the start of a wonderful new life for me, though not without difficulty.
Can you help me with a question? My Lutheran pastor is concerned that I’ve given up my assurance of salvation for always wondering whether or not I’ll be saved. He’s saying that I will always be wondering if I’ve done enough good works to go to heaven. I know the argument - I use to use it on Mormons. On the one hand it’s strange, because even Lutherans believe you can lose your salvation. But, to the point - I believe that salvation is a process of God’s grace at work in my life; that the goal of this process is to make me holy, fit for heaven, like the saints in heaven. The Holy Spirit leads me to avail myself of the sacraments, to avoid sin and be cleansed of sin on a regular basis, to pray, to love God and my neighbor, to seek God’s will. I’m not perfect and I certainly fall, but I want to stay in a state of grace; and I believe ALL that’s done for my salvation, both God’s clear actions (e.g. the Mass) and my actions (e.g. prayer and charitable acts) are all attributable to God’s grace. I firmly believe in God’s great compassion shown especially through the suffering and death of Jesus to offer salvation to every human being. So I am very confident in the love of God, and believe if I were to die at this moment I would be saved - probably not ushered right into heaven, but in need of Purgatory as I explained to him, nevertheless secure and on my way. Isn’t this the virtue of Hope? Is this ok? Or am I being presumptuous? I don’t have this nagging “I wonder if I will be saved” thinking that he thinks I should have as a Catholic. Thanks for your response.

 

[JonNC]

=ReturningToRome;7718597]By way of introduction - After more than 35 years as a Lutheran, I joyfully returned to the Catholic Church on January 3, the Most Holy Name of Jesus. I received the beautiful sacraments of Reconciliation and the Eucharist that day. What a great relief and the start of a wonderful new life for me, though not without difficulty.

First, I give thanks to God that you have found great joy in your new communion. May you continue to be blessed by word and sacrament there.

Reminder to change your profile.

Can you help me with a question? My Lutheran pastor is concerned that I’ve given up my assurance of salvation for always wondering whether or not I’ll be saved. He’s saying that I will always be wondering if I’ve done enough good works to go to heaven. I know the argument - I use to use it on Mormons.

I think there is enough convergence between our communions that this concern can be layed to rest.

On the one hand it’s strange, because even Lutherans believe you can lose your salvation. But, to the point - I believe that salvation is a process of God’s grace at work in my life; that the goal of this process is to make me holy, fit for heaven, like the saints in heaven. The Holy Spirit leads me to avail myself of the sacraments, to avoid sin and be cleansed of sin on a regular basis, to pray, to love God and my neighbor, to seek God’s will. I’m not perfect and I certainly fall, but I want to stay in a state of grace; and I believe ALL that’s done for my salvation, both God’s clear actions (e.g. the Mass) and my actions (e.g. prayer and charitable acts) are all attributable to God’s grace.

This sounds very Lutheran to me. I’ve always said that were I to swim the Tober, I would continue to give thanks to God that it was in Lutheranism that I “learned to swim”.

I firmly believe in God’s great compassion shown especially through the suffering and death of Jesus to offer salvation to every human being. So I am very confident in the love of God, and believe if I were to die at this moment I would be saved - probably not ushered right into heaven, but in need of Purgatory as I explained to him, nevertheless secure and on my way. Isn’t this the virtue of Hope? Is this ok? Or am I being presumptuous? I don’t have this nagging “I wonder if I will be saved” thinking that he thinks I should have as a Catholic. Thanks for your response.

Aside from the idea of the intermediate state/place of Purgatory, this seems ok by me. You might want to read my thread regarding the Lutheran/Catholic dialogue document, “The Hope of Eternal Life”.

Jon

 

[ReturningToRome]

Thanks, Jon. Good to hear from you again. Got my profile changed I thought maybe I should change my “title” but I don’t know how to do that. How did you find my post so fast?
John

 

[icamay]

I finally had a priest explain purgatory and the path to Heaven today in a way that I understand. Here’s what I learned: God cannot say no to us when we wholeheartedly ask to be joined in His grace. When we sincerely ask for His mercy, we have it.

That being said, we still have to purge ourselves of those things that come between us and complete submission to Him. Few people manage to do that on earth; for those of us who do not, we complete that process in purgatory. It is there that we close that gap between us and Him. In other words, if you sincerely commit yourself to God and follow Christ’s teachings, the question for you won’t be “if” you get to Heaven, but “when” you finally get there. When we pray for those in purgatory, we’re helping them repent to speed up the process to get them to Heaven.

I would suggest reading about the lives and philosophy of the saints. They have many insights about the path man must follow to find himself reunited eternally with God.

 

[Barbkw]

Isn’t this the virtue of Hope?

Yes, it is.

Is this ok?

That’s what I believe as well.

Or am I being presumptuous?

(Mass, Charity toward others, Reconciliation) It’s meeting our responsiblities as members of Christ

I don’t have this nagging “I wonder if I will be saved” thinking that he thinks I should have as a Catholic.

I’ve heard of people in protestant denominations who are “pushed” toward leaving mate and children in the U.S. and spending months in foreign countries preaching the Gospel." To me, that is a work well beyond what Christ called us to perform. Particularly when many protestant denominations go to these areas to “combat” Catholicism.

 

[JonNC]

Thanks, Jon. Good to hear from you again. Got my profile changed I thought maybe I should change my “title” but I don’t know how to do that. How did you find my post so fast?
John

Just surfing, John.

I don’t know how to change one’s title, either.

Jon

 

[po18guy]

Welcome home! We recently debated this is an email circle that I participate in. There is assurance of salvation through the very words of Christ if we remain in Him and therefore, He remains in us. His truths and His promises are rock-solid in their trustworthiness. The onus is upon us to remain in Him and keep His commands. **If **we do that, and remain in a state of grace, we then have assurance of salvation. Now, those are huge “ifs”, and eternity hinges entirely upon them. But, we must trust in the most basic words of our Lord here, while persevering to the end. But, this is a far cry from OSAS, and I desire there to be no confusion about what I am saying.

It sounds like your former pastor does not fully understand Catholicism. As well, it is only human nature that he senses loss at your departure.

 

[fhansen]

By way of introduction - After more than 35 years as a Lutheran, I joyfully returned to the Catholic Church on January 3, the Most Holy Name of Jesus. I received the beautiful sacraments of Reconciliation and the Eucharist that day. What a great relief and the start of a wonderful new life for me, though not without difficulty.
Can you help me with a question? My Lutheran pastor is concerned that I’ve given up my assurance of salvation for always wondering whether or not I’ll be saved. He’s saying that I will always be wondering if I’ve done enough good works to go to heaven. I know the argument - I use to use it on Mormons. On the one hand it’s strange, because even Lutherans believe you can lose your salvation. But, to the point - I believe that salvation is a process of God’s grace at work in my life; that the goal of this process is to make me holy, fit for heaven, like the saints in heaven. The Holy Spirit leads me to avail myself of the sacraments, to avoid sin and be cleansed of sin on a regular basis, to pray, to love God and my neighbor, to seek God’s will. I’m not perfect and I certainly fall, but I want to stay in a state of grace; and I believe ALL that’s done for my salvation, both God’s clear actions (e.g. the Mass) and my actions (e.g. prayer and charitable acts) are all attributable to God’s grace. I firmly believe in God’s great compassion shown especially through the suffering and death of Jesus to offer salvation to every human being. So I am very confident in the love of God, and believe if I were to die at this moment I would be saved - probably not ushered right into heaven, but in need of Purgatory as I explained to him, nevertheless secure and on my way. Isn’t this the virtue of Hope? Is this ok? Or am I being presumptuous? I don’t have this nagging “I wonder if I will be saved” thinking that he thinks I should have as a Catholic. Thanks for your response.

Being raised Catholic, then leaving for many years and later becoming Protestant for several more years, then returning to the Church, your expression of the Catholic disposition towards salvation is spot on, IMO. It’s a very balanced approach, recognizing the need for our own conscientiousness, while trusting that God is doing a work in us-finished only when He says so.

 

[pablope]

By way of introduction - After more than 35 years as a Lutheran, I joyfully returned to the Catholic Church on January 3, the Most Holy Name of Jesus. I received the beautiful sacraments of Reconciliation and the Eucharist that day. What a great relief and the start of a wonderful new life for me, though not without difficulty.
Can you help me with a question? actions (e.g. the Mass) and my actions (e.g. prayer and charitable acts) are all attributable to God’s grace. I firmly believe in God’s great compassion shown especially through the suffering and death of Jesus to offer salvation to every human being. So I am very confident in the love of God, and believe if I were to die at this moment I would be saved - probably not ushered right into heaven, but in need of Purgatory as I explained to him, nevertheless secure and on my way. Isn’t this the virtue of Hope? Is this ok? Or am I being presumptuous? I don’t have this nagging “I wonder if I will be saved” thinking that he thinks I should have as a Catholic. Thanks for your response.

As John 6: 56 says…Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them.

 

[po18guy]

As John 6:56 says…Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them.

Amen! The cleansing of venial sin via the power of the Holy Eucharist, and the Sacrament of Penance for that which is more serious.

 

[ReturningToRome]

thanks, all!

 

[agent_grey]

none of us are assured of salvation. by Jesus we know that all is in place for salvation.

Work out your salvation with fear and trembling.

If you know your saved you are not!

 

[guanophore]

none of us are assured of salvation. by Jesus we know that all is in place for salvation.

Work out your salvation with fear and trembling.

If you know your saved you are not!

I don’t think I would go so far as to say that, but certainly, those who believe they have already attained are immature in their faith.

Phil 3:13-16
13 Beloved, I do not consider that I have made it my own; but this one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and straining forward to what lies ahead, 14 I press on toward the goal for the prize of the heavenly call of God in Christ Jesus. 15 **Let those of us then who are mature be of the same mind; **and if you think differently about anything, this too God will reveal to you. 16 Only let us hold fast to what we have attained.

 

[yellowbird]

By way of introduction - After more than 35 years as a Lutheran, I joyfully returned to the Catholic Church on January 3, the Most Holy Name of Jesus. I received the beautiful sacraments of Reconciliation and the Eucharist that day. What a great relief and the start of a wonderful new life for me, though not without difficulty.
Can you help me with a question? My Lutheran pastor is concerned that I’ve given up my assurance of salvation for always wondering whether or not I’ll be saved. He’s saying that I will always be wondering if I’ve done enough good works to go to heaven. I know the argument - I use to use it on Mormons. On the one hand it’s strange, because even Lutherans believe you can lose your salvation. But, to the point - I believe that salvation is a process of God’s grace at work in my life; that the goal of this process is to make me holy, fit for heaven, like the saints in heaven. The Holy Spirit leads me to avail myself of the sacraments, to avoid sin and be cleansed of sin on a regular basis, to pray, to love God and my neighbor, to seek God’s will. I’m not perfect and I certainly fall, but I want to stay in a state of grace; and I believe ALL that’s done for my salvation, both God’s clear actions (e.g. the Mass) and my actions (e.g. prayer and charitable acts) are all attributable to God’s grace. I firmly believe in God’s great compassion shown especially through the suffering and death of Jesus to offer salvation to every human being. So I am very confident in the love of God, and believe if I were to die at this moment I would be saved - probably not ushered right into heaven, but in need of Purgatory as I explained to him, nevertheless secure and on my way. Isn’t this the virtue of Hope? Is this ok? Or am I being presumptuous? I don’t have this nagging “I wonder if I will be saved” thinking that he thinks I should have as a Catholic. Thanks for your response.

When I read this I had to smile because I could have posted the EXACT same thing when I converted six years ago. I was minding my own business as a born-again, Evangelical Christian when the Holy Spirit grabbed ahold me and convinced me I needed to become Catholic. Who becomes Catholic??? Not me, that’s for sure so I decided to become Lutheran, figuring that was close enough. So Lutheran I stayed for the next few years until I realized close enough just wasn’t enough. Upon my departure, my dear Lutheran Pastor had the same conversation with me. That as a Catholic, I’ll spend the rest of my life in fear of hell. Was there any truth to that? I certainly didn’t fear hell as Lutheran - I was 100% certain of two things… I loved God, and He loved me. And because I was certain I wouldn’t walk away from God, I was totally at peace that I would eventually go to Heaven. NOT because of who I am - but because of who God is. Faithful, merciful and kind, loving & forgiving. How marvelous is He?! So across the Tiber I go - but right before I reach the Catholic shore, I talk about this with my new Priest. Do I have to give up my peaceful feeling about the state of my soul? Will I have to start worrying about my eternal destination? Are Catholics supposed to be living in fear of hell? And he said NO NO NO. He said he wished more Catholics had the joy of the Lord in their hearts, knowing He has paid the price for their sins and they DON’T need to be stressed that the good works they do won’t be enough. It’s never enough… if our good works were enough - who’d need His grace?!

Fast foward six years, and I’m still not worried at all. I trust Him. I didn’t think it were possible, but I actually think I love Him even more today - because He called me home to His Church, and patiently waited for me to get here. I am just thankful, and I look so forward to spending eternity with Him.

 

[valentino]

Aperson shouldn’t feel he has an assurance of salvation just so he can relax his mind.people who worry overly much on this are unstable people and are actually acting irrationally.One has to take up his cross daily.Seems like he’s projecting his ideas on you.I believe you should tell him what you just posted if he asks you again.Its most compelling.

 

[JonNC]

When I read this I had to smile because I could have posted the EXACT same thing when I converted six years ago. I was minding my own business as a born-again, Evangelical Christian when the Holy Spirit grabbed ahold me and convinced me I needed to become Catholic. Who becomes Catholic??? Not me, that’s for sure so I decided to become Lutheran, figuring that was close enough. So Lutheran I stayed for the next few years until I realized close enough just wasn’t enough. Upon my departure, my dear Lutheran Pastor had the same conversation with me. That as a Catholic, I’ll spend the rest of my life in fear of hell. Was there any truth to that? I certainly didn’t fear hell as Lutheran - I was 100% certain of two things… I loved God, and He loved me. And because I was certain I wouldn’t walk away from God, I was totally at peace that I would eventually go to Heaven. NOT because of who I am - but because of who God is. Faithful, merciful and kind, loving & forgiving. How marvelous is He?! So across the Tiber I go - but right before I reach the Catholic shore, I talk about this with my new Priest. **Do I have to give up my peaceful feeling about the state of my soul? Will I have to start worrying about my eternal destination? Are Catholics supposed to be living in fear of hell? And he said NO NO NO. He said he wished more Catholics had the joy of the Lord in their hearts, knowing He has paid the price for their sins and they DON’T need to be stressed that the good works they do won’t be enough. It’s never enough… if our good works were enough - who’d need His grace?! **Fast foward six years, and I’m still not worried at all. I trust Him. I didn’t think it were possible, but I actually think I love Him even more today - because He called me home to His Church, and patiently waited for me to get here. I am just thankful, and I look so forward to spending eternity with Him.

You have a well spoken priest.

Jon

 

[guanophore]

You have a well spoken priest.

Jon

I wish we had more of those!