Assurance of Salvation

[fhansen]

I will clarify. God chooses. He elects some to salvation, or all would be lost. Why? Because, as Paul teaches, dead people cannot DO anything. Angel, read these verses: Eph 2:1-3; Rom 3:10-12. See what I mean? This is clear Scriptural testimony, and a sad one. We are sinners in a fallen world.

Let’s give credit to where the credit is due – Salvation is of the Lord! Check it out: John 1:12-13; John 6:37-40, 44, 64-65; John 17 (whole chapter is, of course, excellent), Acts 16:14, 1 Cor 1:26-31. Could these verses be any clearer that it is God who chooses, God who calls?

The will of the elect, or we could say the sheep, is to follow Jesus Christ. The elect truly are locked in (that’s a real good thing!) because we have eternal life (in the original Greek it means eternal life) and we have assurance that when God begins a work in us, He will complete it (Php 1:6), He will perfect it (Heb 12:2). What IS against the will of the elect is to sin by making unrighteous choices.

No, not everyone deserves hell, and no, God doesn’t merely elect some to heaven and damn the reprobate to hell-He would not be a God of justice if He made hell strictly for the purpose of housing those people He created to go there. That is utter nonsense and has nothing to do with a God of reason, love, and justice. Our wills are always involved in the process and His judgments are right because they’re based on justice, moderated with mercy.

 

[highrigger1]

Your sins are forgiven as long as you are contrite. However, if you are not contrite, a priest can forgive your sins.

teeboy,

Cannot imagiine why anone would ask Gods forgiveness if they are not serious.

And if we are not serious (contrite) how can a priest help us?

Dont you agree that we can ask God to forgive our sins directly? Jesus never mentioned going to a priest (None in the NT or mentioned by the ECFs) and in fact taught us to pray directly as in the Lords Prayer and as he described in the parable of the tax collector and the pharisee (Luke 18:9).

Peace, JohnR

 

[David_Castlen]

Of course the Church can Judge actions. However, the Church shouldn’t judge an individual. A priest can forgive your sinful actions. A priest does not judge your conscience and whether your sinful actions are venial or mortal.

I am leery about getting into this on this blog as it may be off subject. If we should go on with it than I think we should do it privately or try to start another post.

God bless… let us love one another

 

[mackbrislawn]

It is not up to the Church to Judge. However, it is up to the Church to instruct.

.

I take “the Church sometimes” to judge meaning in the canonization of saints. That is, in the official opinion of the Church, this individual is in heaven. In the “judgement” of the Church, the dead person in question has gone to heaven and is therefore a “saint.”

This judgement does not involve living persons. Even excommunication doesn’t automatically mean the person is going to hell.

 

[mackbrislawn]

I will clarify. God chooses. He elects some to salvation, or all would be lost. Why? Because, as Paul teaches, dead people cannot DO anything. Angel, read these verses: Eph 2:1-3; Rom 3:10-12. See what I mean? This is clear Scriptural testimony, and a sad one. We are sinners in a fallen world.

Let’s give credit to where the credit is due – Salvation is of the Lord! Check it out: John 1:12-13; John 6:37-40, 44, 64-65; John 17 (whole chapter is, of course, excellent), Acts 16:14, 1 Cor 1:26-31. Could these verses be any clearer that it is God who chooses, God who calls?

The will of the elect, or we could say the sheep, is to follow Jesus Christ. The elect truly are locked in (that’s a real good thing!) because we have eternal life (in the original Greek it means eternal life) and we have assurance that when God begins a work in us, He will complete it (Php 1:6), He will perfect it (Heb 12:2). What IS against the will of the elect is to sin by making unrighteous choices.

Is there hope? Yes. We should always pray that God will do a work in that person or that loved one’s life that will draw them to Jesus. But it clearly is God who does the calling and choosing, according to the Scriptures.

Maybe this clarification helps (and the verses I’ve given are very important, please prayerfully read them).

Sincerely, OldProf

Do I understand this right. They way I understand the above comments is, we are all damned to start with. Then God elects some for salvation. Therefore, it can be said, salvation is of the Lord.

Of course, this means that those not chosen by God are damned. Which further implies that He at least passively chooses the rest for damnation by default. The conclusion is, If salvation is of the Lord, damnation is also of the Lord.

Another question. Is it possible to know for sure in this life if one is of the elect? If so, the converse question arises, is it possible to know for sure in this life if one is of the damned? It would seem that if you aren’t sure you’re of the elect, then you must be of the damned.

 

[fbl9]

The Epistle to the Romans state plainly" be not high minded perhaps He might not spare thee" " abide in His goodness: otherwise thou wilt be cut off" 11:22-24.

Don’t judge others and don’t judge yourself; I often confess this. God is the Judge.

One who is truely contrite does not judge himself nor himself relative to others.

not sure how your post fits mine.
Unless you are in agreence that it is up to God who is cut off and who will be spared.
Otherwise you have an issue with the author of the Epistle to the Romans not me.

Ealier the author writes 8:23-25 "In hope we were saved…But hope for what is seen is not hope…"So the author of the Epistle to the Romans state rather plainly that there is assurance of being saved.

 

[fbl9]

I will clarify. God chooses. He elects some to salvation, or all would be lost. Why? Because, as Paul teaches, dead people cannot DO anything. Angel, read these verses: Eph 2:1-3; Rom 3:10-12. See what I mean? This is clear Scriptural testimony, and a sad one. We are sinners in a fallen world.

Let’s give credit to where the credit is due – Salvation is of the Lord! Check it out: John 1:12-13; John 6:37-40, 44, 64-65; John 17 (whole chapter is, of course, excellent), Acts 16:14, 1 Cor 1:26-31. Could these verses be any clearer that it is God who chooses, God who calls?

The will of the elect, or we could say the sheep, is to follow Jesus Christ. The elect truly are locked in (that’s a real good thing!) because we have eternal life (in the original Greek it means eternal life) and we have assurance that when God begins a work in us, He will complete it (Php 1:6), He will perfect it (Heb 12:2). What IS against the will of the elect is to sin by making unrighteous choices.

Let’s look at it from birth. When we are born, we are sinners and we will sin as we grow up. In fact, St Paul says we won’t seek God and we won’t ever be righteous (Rom 3:9-18). I’ve seen this attitude displayed many times by most of my university colleagues. They want nothing to do with any god. Thus, mankind’s free will is in just one direction. We have the free will to choose the sin we desire to do. This is spiritual death. As Jesus said, “Let the dead bury their dead.” (Matt 8:22 partial; Luke 9:60 partial).

Is there hope? Yes. We should always pray that God will do a work in that person or that loved one’s life that will draw them to Jesus. But it clearly is God who does the calling and choosing, according to the Scriptures.

Maybe this clarification helps (and the verses I’ve given are very important, please prayerfully read them).

Sincerely, OldProf

How is it that you a dead man repented? i don’t how you did, because you can’t do anything.

if i call you all day long and you don’t answer you don’t get my message.Come to me all you that labour. Nope i sure didn’t see Jesus saying come to some of you that are called, Jesus clearly said all.

how is it that which is already dead die again. when it was dead in the first place.

 

[teeboy]

teeboy,

Cannot imagiine why anone would ask Gods forgiveness if they are not serious.

And if we are not serious (contrite) how can a priest help us?

Dont you agree that we can ask God to forgive our sins directly? Jesus never mentioned going to a priest (None in the NT or mentioned by the ECFs) and in fact taught us to pray directly as in the Lords Prayer and as he described in the parable of the tax collector and the pharisee (Luke 18:9).

Peace, JohnR

Serious isn’t the question.

Is it out of fear or love of God. Is one seriously sorry for their sins b/c they offend God or is it b/c they fear punishment?

 

[teeboy]

not sure how your post fits mine.
Unless you are in agreence that it is up to God who is cut off and who will be spared.
Otherwise you have an issue with the author of the Epistle to the Romans not me.

Ealier the author writes 8:23-25 "In hope we were saved…But hope for what is seen is not hope…"So the author of the Epistle to the Romans state rather plainly that there is assurance of being saved.

I read those verses to say that one who falls away can come back.

That is the same as saying a believer who sins can come back into grace through forgiveness of sins. After, penance of course.

 

[fred_conty]

Highrigger you wrote,

“We should all have assurance of our salvation because salvation is to be saved from our sins and we know that is true when we trust in the promises of Jesus Christ.”​

I would agree with you that this assurance is the case. BUT the channel that Jesus uses to do this is another item. That is the channel of forgiveness.

God is limitless in his mercy as he is limitless in his power and other attributes.
If a mother murdered all her children, the limitless mercy of God would forgive her if she asked forgiveness, without question.

And if an A-moral serial killer , who has no conscience, nor any thought for his fellow man, asks God for forgiveness, the limitless mercy of God would forgive him without question. And the reason is because God’s mercy is bigger than space itself.

And as you say, because of the trust in the promises of Jesus Christ, who is mercy incarnate, hanging from a cross.

And what did Jesus say his promises of assurance were? “Thou are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church. Whose sins you forgive they are forgiven, and whose sins you do not forgive, they are not forgiven.” The channel of forgiveness is Jesus who uses his church thru Peter, the rock of his church, to exercise mercy in his behalf.

Now his church today exorcises that mercy thu the sacrament of mercy, confession.
And in confession, if the person is an A-moral serial killer, with no conscience, but knows he did wrong and will pay for it in eternity, out of fright, confesses his sins
and is only sorry because of punishment, he will be forgiven in the sacrament of mercy,
but NOT outside of the sacrament of mercy. Noone is outside the mercy of God in the sacrament of mercy, even those who are self centered.

How do we know that this A-moral person would not be forgiven outside the mercy sacrament? Because of the promise of Jesus “…I will build my church.”
And that established church has said, that outside the mercy sacrament, a person needs to have deep love of God to be forgiven, and that fear itself is not enough. And so the words again come true, “whose sins you do not forgive, are not forgiven.”

Just a thought about the assurance of our salvation thru the promise of his church.

Ps1. The above presupposes that all the other conditions needed for a good sacrament are present.

Ps2. Somewhere the N.T. says that we should confess our sins to our brothers.
This would indicate that we are to confess not only to God.

Ps3. And again it says that if someone should be sick, let him bring in the presbyters
and let him pray over him annointing him with oil, … and his sins shall be forgiven. This passage removes any doubt that others have the power to remove sins on this earth, and that it is thru those belonging to the church that do it. Forgive me for not citing the chapter and verse.

Wishing that God draw you close.

 

[fbl9]

---

not sure how your post fits mine.
Unless you are in agreence that it is up to God who is cut off and who will be spared.
**Otherwise you have an issue with the author of the Epistle to the Romans not me.**Ealier the author writes 8:23-25 "In hope we were saved…But hope for what is seen is not hope…"So the author of the Epistle to the Romans state rather plainly that there is assurance of being saved.

I read those verses to say that one who falls away can come back.

That is the same as saying a believer who sins can come back into grace through forgiveness of sins. After, penance of course.

should not have wrote that bolded line, my apologies.

These verses were written as a warning against spiritual pride. 11:13-22.

 

[jcrichton]

Angel, you’ve done us a benefit by providing some Scriptures to study. I agree that Bible study is both important and most beneficial to knowing the will and mind of God. I certainly disagree with you that I ignore or reject Bible passages.

You’ve quoted Php 2:12-15. In a recent post I provided an answer to that which is consistent with the other Scriptures. St. Paul inspired by the Holy Spirit is writing to the Christians (Php 1:1 “to all the saints in Christ”) in Philipi and exhorting them to be lights in the world. Why, because of all the disputings and unruliness within the Church there (Php 2:2, 2:14), they were not being salt and light in the community as they should – in fact, their church should be blameless and unified (Php 1:27-28). These actions are unacceptable and invite the judgment of God upon them – not to the point of loss of salvation (Php 1:6), but as a punishment from God they should greatly fear (Php 2:12). We, too, today, should greatly fear punishment from God for our own sins, and that should prove to be a deterrent to our continuing to sin when we know Christ as our Shepherd. He chastens his own (1 Cor 11:28-32; Heb 12:3-11; 1 John 1:5-10) with the good purpose to straighten them out when they need it. That sounds very father-like, very Shepherd-like. We should examine and test ourselves to recognize our own sins, the sooner the better, and repent of them.

This context should be clear if you understand that Christ’s Sheep, the Christians, will never perish (John 10:28; Php 1:6; Heb 12:2-it is Jesus Christ who is “the author and finisher (perfecter) of our faith,” not us).

You then quote Eph 4:22-32. This is clearly about the Christian, as a new man (or woman) and a mature, spiritual walk with the Lord. Certainly when Christian’s sin in the same old ways it grieves the Spirit. If we sin, we should fear God’s chastening! (Heb 12:3-11, note v. 6 where “scourges” is used! Ouch! We SHOULD fear that!)

Next John 3:14-21. Okay, v. 15, you believe in Him, you have eternal life. Believe means a saving faith in Christ and the end result is eternal life. Eternal life. This is actually the first of 17 references in the Gospel of John to eternal life or everlasting life. Christians = True Believers = Eternal Life. They have it. It is a done deal. Not once did John say believers will have “the possibility of eternal life.” Yes, this is consistent with the sheep that never perish. V. 16 agrees. V. 17 who in the world is saved? All of us = universal salvation? No, that would not be Scriptural since people go to hell. But v. 18 does clarify it. Those who are trusting in Jesus for their salvation, true believers, are the ones in the world who are saved. VV. 19-21 provides a clean finish to this conversation between Jesus and Nicodemus. John the Baptist finishes the chapter with, “He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.” John 3:36 KJV. Think about it. I don’t think this lines up very well at all with RCC ecumenism, and it should provide a great reason for Christians to share the Gospel.

Then John 14:15. By all means, the proper Christian attitude. Love for Christ is inseparable from obedience. If I love Him, I will do all I can to obey and bring him Glory in my attitudes and actions. A Christian should be above reproach. But it is so true that we aren’t always (1 John 1:8-10). So, when I sin – not IF – when, then the Holy Spirit will convict me of that sin and I will repent of it (assuming I’m a true Christian, of course). I’m thankful for God’s faithfulness and assurance (1 Cor 10:13; 1 John 5:13).

Thank-you for the Bible study and reminder of Christian attitudes and actions.

Sincerely, OldProf

…again, the problem is that Eternal Salvation is Granted… but not every “Believer” humbly submit to Christ’s Commandments… believing that once a person has “accepted” Christ as Lord and Savior and that Salvation is guaranteed as Eternally gotten is to put God in a box where man dictates the terms of Salvation.

Though God is Omnipotent, He will not force anyone to accept His Gift… it is by humbly submitting our will to His that we are able to be part of the vine… without Christ Salvation is lost: sin = death.

When a Believer sins and steadfastly holds on to his/her moral compass (don’t have to do anything but quote Scriptures to God) and refuses to repent and return to Christ he/she has lost Salvation:

17 Now suppose that some branches were broken off, and you are wild olive, grafted among the rest to share with the others the rich sap of the olive tree; 18 then it is not for you to consider yourself superior to the other branches; and if you start feeling proud, think: it is not you that sustain the root, but the root that sustains you. 19 You will say, ‘Branches were broken off on purpose for me to be grafted in.’ True; 20 they through their unbelief were broken off, and you are established through your faith. So it is not pride that you should have, but fear: 21 if God did not spare the natural branches, he might not spare you either. 22 Remember God’s severity as well as his goodness: his severity to those who fell, and his goodness to you as long as you persevere in it; if not, you too will be cut off. (Romans 11:17-22)

…sure doesn’t sound like St. Paul is speaking about no sheep will lose Salvation!

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

teeboy,

Of course we cannot judge ourself. But Jesus said he came to save and not to judge. He promised that our sins are forgiven whenever we ask. That is the source of our assurance, that God always forgives and loves us no matter what comes our way when we seek his forgivenss. And we should live lives of repentance, always keeping in Gods Grace,

Nothing you do as a work should make you feel good about your salvation. To do that is to trust in yourself and in religious busy works rather than Gods Grace. In fact I would argue it shows a lack of faith in his Grace because you trust yourself even more.

We should all have assurance of our salvation because salvation is to be saved from our sins and we know that is true when we trust in the promises of Jesus Christ.

Peace, JohnR

There’s nothing to be done for Salvation… except for accepting that we must abide in Christ so that He may Abide in us… this means that we must Love Him and we cannot Love Him if we do not Obey His Commandments… one clear path that most take (always savers) is that Christ already died for all sin so there’s no need to repent and return to Christ… yet, if you say that you do… you cannot employ your own terms… Jesus has already done this by establishing His Church and it is through the Sacraments that we can demonstrate that we are Obedient and abiding in Christ (St. John 3:16-21; 15:1-10; 1 St. John 1:1-10)

…but it is not as simple as claiming “…I’ve asked God to forgive me and He has done so!”:

18 So I now say to you: You are Peter and on this rock I will build my community. And the gates of the underworld can never overpower it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of Heaven: whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven; whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.’ (St. Matthew 16:18-19)

22 After saying this he breathed on them and said: Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive anyone’s sins, they are forgiven; if you retain anyone’s sins, they are retained. (St. John 20:22-23)

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

I will clarify. God chooses. He elects some to salvation, or all would be lost. Why? Because, as Paul teaches, dead people cannot DO anything. Angel, read these verses: Eph 2:1-3; Rom 3:10-12. See what I mean? This is clear Scriptural testimony, and a sad one. We are sinners in a fallen world.

Let’s give credit to where the credit is due – Salvation is of the Lord! Check it out: John 1:12-13; John 6:37-40, 44, 64-65; John 17 (whole chapter is, of course, excellent), Acts 16:14, 1 Cor 1:26-31. Could these verses be any clearer that it is God who chooses, God who calls?

…but there’s no argument with the Origin of our Faith or Salvation… the argument is that when people claim that it is in Scriptures and that Salvation cannot be lost because of God’s Promise or Omnipotence we run into a wall: Christ will not turn us away… but we never lose the ability to chose to reject Christ… it is in this “free” will that Salvation is both Eternally Given and consciously lost… not because Yahweh God chooses to hinder/condem us:

19 When self-indulgence is at work the results are obvious: sexual vice, impurity, and sensuality, 20 the worship of false gods and sorcery; antagonisms and rivalry, jealousy, bad temper and quarrels, disagreements, 21 factions and malice, drunkenness, orgies and all such things. And about these, I tell you now as I have told you in the past, that people who behave in these ways will not inherit the kingdom of God. (Galatians 5:19-21)

The will of the elect, or we could say the sheep, is to follow Jesus Christ. The elect truly are locked in (that’s a real good thing!) because we have eternal life (in the original Greek it means eternal life) and we have assurance that when God begins a work in us, He will complete it (Php 1:6), He will perfect it (Heb 12:2). What IS against the will of the elect is to sin by making unrighteous choices.

…but the “elect” is not a Divinely apportioned number of people who have been granted “get out of Hell free” cards… these are Believers who have been born of the Spirit (St. John 1:12-13).

…and these who Belong to Christ do so out of their own free will… and they can choose to reject Christ on their own volition… personally, I believe that when a person thinks he/she will never lose Salvation that person is wallowing deep in the sin of pride… we all know what happened when pride struck out way back at the Beginning!

Let’s look at it from birth. When we are born, we are sinners and we will sin as we grow up. In fact, St Paul says we won’t seek God and we won’t ever be righteous (Rom 3:9-18). I’ve seen this attitude displayed many times by most of my university colleagues. They want nothing to do with any god. Thus, mankind’s free will is in just one direction. We have the free will to choose the sin we desire to do. This is spiritual death. As Jesus said, “Let the dead bury their dead.” (Matt 8:22 partial; Luke 9:60 partial).

Is there hope? Yes. We should always pray that God will do a work in that person or that loved one’s life that will draw them to Jesus. But it clearly is God who does the calling and choosing, according to the Scriptures.

Maybe this clarification helps (and the verses I’ve given are very important, please prayerfully read them).

Sincerely, OldProf

…sadly, no… we are still speaking just outside each others’ reach… true it is God Who Originates Faith and Salvation… but neither is forced upon us… the Call, if we choose to ignore it, does not dismantle our will to reject God… it is the reason why so many are constantly at war against God… in America, and I suspect the world over, even Christians embrace the culture of death… some even express their affinity with the culture of death as a badge of honor as they embrace “intellectualism” and “modernism” in spite of Scriptural Teachings warning against frienship with the world… Salvation, my friend, is truly a Free Gift–one that many reject… one that even those who profess to be in fellowship with Christ misunderstand and mismanage… :crying::crying::crying:

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[Abu]

highrigger1 #162
Dont you agree that we can ask God to forgive our sins directly? Jesus never mentioned going to a priest (None in the NT or mentioned by the ECFs)

The fallacies are endless.

Jesus empathically gave us priests at the Last Supper, and gave them the authority to forgive sins in His Name for He commanded: “As the father has sent Me, so I am sending you….For those whose sins you forgive, they are forgiven; for those whose sins you retain, they are retained.” (Jn 20: 21-23).

 

[Abu]

On judging, the Church is clear.
Christ commanded us to:
“Stop judging by appearances, but judge justly.” (Jn 7:24).
“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but underneath are ravenous wolves. By their fruits you will know them” (Mt 7:15, 16).
“Every tree that does not bear good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire. So by their fruits you will know them.” (Mt 7:19-20).

And St Paul, following the Master:
“Test everything: retain what is good.” (1Thess 5:21).
“The spiritual person, however, can judge everything but is not subject to judgment by anyone.” (1 Cor 2:15).
“I, for my part, although absent in body but present in spirit, have already, as if present, pronounced judgement on the one who has committed this deed…” (1 Cor 5:3; read 1-13).
“I am speaking as to sensible people; judge for yourselves what I am saying.” (1 Cor 10:15).

“Beloved, do not trust every spirit but test the spirits to see whether they belong to God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.” (1 Jn 4:1).

“I know your works; I know that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either cold or hot. So, because you are lukewarm, neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of my mouth.” (Rev 3:16).

That is precisely why we judge actions, speech, writing against true teaching as to what is good and what is evil, and we know what is good and what is evil only by following the teaching of His Church – not by our opinions, desires, prejudices, feelings, wants – selfism.

We may not judge motives, intentions, and guilt before God but are commanded to judge actions, speech, writing against truth and in this way we can help others by offering truth.

We are commanded not to judge the guilt of anyone before God.

 

[jcrichton]

teeboy,

Cannot imagiine why anone would ask Gods forgiveness if they are not serious.

And if we are not serious (contrite) how can a priest help us?

Dont you agree that we can ask God to forgive our sins directly? Jesus never mentioned going to a priest (None in the NT or mentioned by the ECFs) and in fact taught us to pray directly as in the Lords Prayer and as he described in the parable of the tax collector and the pharisee (Luke 18:9).

Peace, JohnR

…actually… you may be reading the wrong passages in Scriptures… Jesus never told anyone to go to a Priest because Being God He could forgive sins directly… but He did establish His Church and the very first thing He spoke about was delegation of Power/Authority:

18 So I now say to you: You are Peter and on this rock I will build my community. And the gates of the underworld can never overpower it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of Heaven: whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven; whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.’ (St. Matthew 16:18-19)

21 and he said to them again, 'Peace be with you. ‘As the Father sent me, so am I sending you.’ 22 After saying this he breathed on them and said: Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive anyone’s sins, they are forgiven; if you retain anyone’s sins, they are retained. (St. John 20:21-23)

…and we know that the emerging Church followed Christ’s Commands:

14 Any one of you who is ill should send for the elders of the church, and they must anoint the sick person with oil in the name of the Lord and pray over him. 15 The prayer of faith will save the sick person and the Lord will raise him up again; and if he has committed any sins, he will be forgiven. 16 So confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another to be cured; the heartfelt prayer of someone upright works very powerfully. 17 Elijah was a human being as frail as ourselves – he prayed earnestly for it not to rain, and no rain fell for three and a half years; 18 then he prayed again and the sky gave rain and the earth gave crops. 19 My brothers, if one of you strays away from the truth, and another brings him back to it, 20 he may be sure that anyone who can bring back a sinner from his erring ways will be saving his soul from death and covering over many a sin. (St. James 5:14-20)

…the only passage in Scriptures that speaks about seeking God directly is about prayer… and it concerns pride and self-gratification.

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

I take “the Church sometimes” to judge meaning in the canonization of saints. That is, in the official opinion of the Church, this individual is in heaven. In the “judgement” of the Church, the dead person in question has gone to heaven and is therefore a “saint.”

This judgement does not involve living persons. Even excommunication doesn’t automatically mean the person is going to hell.

I concur… since the business of the Church is to facilitate Salvation not to condemn!

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

not sure how your post fits mine.
Unless you are in agreence that it is up to God who is cut off and who will be spared.
Otherwise you have an issue with the author of the Epistle to the Romans not me.

Ealier the author writes 8:23-25 "In hope we were saved…But hope for what is seen is not hope…"So the author of the Epistle to the Romans state rather plainly that there is assurance of being saved.

…but not of knowing that we are already saved and that we do not lose Salvation… if a person knows he/she is Saved than there’s no need for hope since hope is in view of the lack of knowing our ultimate status: with Christ vs. without Christ!

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

…Ps2. Somewhere the N.T. says that we should confess our sins to our brothers.
This would indicate that we are to confess not only to God.

Ps3. And again it says that if someone should be sick, let him bring in the presbyters
and let him pray over him annointing him with oil, … and his sins shall be forgiven. This passage removes any doubt that others have the power to remove sins on this earth, and that it is thru those belonging to the church that do it. Forgive me for not citing the chapter and verse.

Wishing that God draw you close.

…I just posted it on a previous response it is St. James 5.

Maran atha!

Angel