Assurance of Salvation

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jcrichton said:
Up to your old tricks, again, OldProf?

…no it does not mean what you think it means (I got that from the old “the Princess Bride” where a brainiac kept thinking he was… well… a brain); it simply means that every single person in the world is guaranteed Salvation in Jesus Christ and that even those who become His Disciples and receive Baptism and the Holy Spirit can, whenever they choose to do so, remove themselves from Christ’s Fold–this of course does not speak ill about Christ’s Promise or God’s Omnipotence… rather it speaks volumes about God’s Mercy, Patience, and Grace: God Will Never Force Even Salvation Upon Any Who Reject His Authority!

The problem you have is that you want a God that Grants you Salvation against your own will–this will never happen!

…and you want to be secure in your old man (sin) without having to be responsible for your unrighteous choices–Christ will never get on the Cross for that “Believer!”

OldProf, it is simple: either God allows us free will and we can choose to reject Him and remove ourselves from His Fellowship or God is the most deranged sadist ever… pretending to Love man while sinisterly damning most of humanity while Saving His Elect Few, in spite of their righteousness or unrighteousness!

Maran atha!

Angel
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Hello, Angel, your humor (Princess Bride) is always appreciated - you have a blessing:)!

Old tricks? :hmmm: Well, I’ve answered questions/objections on John 15, Hebrews 6, Philipians 2, and a few others posed by those on this thread in ways consistent with my understanding of God’s grace. And I’ve explained, quite well I believe, my position on this thread that a believer can have an assurance of their salvation, that salvation is of the Lord, that the believer has no room to boast in their salvation because their faith itself is a gift from God so only God deserves the Glory, and that once a person is a believer (a sheep, one of the elect) they will persevere in their faith to the end (the OSAS position, and, of course, lest we forget, the definite need for each believer to examine themselves to make ABSOLUTELY SURE they are in the faith - my evidence lists and Paul’s exhortation in 2 Cor 13:5).

So, if by “old tricks” you mean I’ve answered objections and given verses in support of my position that have gone unanswered, like how you answered (*not) my last Post #988, then yes, I’m up to my “old tricks, again.” (Well, sometimes people try to answer them, but in such a way as to be inconsistent and negate those and other Scriptures - that type of argument is not one I can champion.)

Really now, what is your answer to my Post #988 that would be consistent with the Scriptures I gave?

Regards, OldProf
 
OldProf said:
paul c, you didn’t give a “backdrop” from a Scriptural viewpoint. What Scriptures do you have to show that the unbeliever has ANY ability to do something righteous in the sight of God?
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What about Romans 2: 12-16? [BIBLEDRB]Romans 2: 12-16[/BIBLEDRB].
OldProf said:
A free will that has the ability to choose Jesus as Lord and Savior (a good thing) and then later to reject Jesus (a bad thing) tells me who is in control of salvation, doesn’t it. It is the person with free will. Where does the Bible teach that? If that is true, why cannot we boast in our own salvation?
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Because its not true. The path to salvation begins with God’s grace and without it, no one can be saved. But Man also has a role: he has to cooperate with God’s grace to be saved. Jesus leads us to heaven and we must follow. If we only follow for a time and then take another path, we will not arrive in heaven. Isn’t that clear? And isn’t it very clear that some people do indeed follow the Lord until other things distract them, like money or security or sex or persecution? Remember the parable of the sower? [BIBLEDRB]Luke 8: 4-15[/BIBLEDRB] Notice verse 13: they believe for a while and then fall away. From the Lords mouth to your ears
OldProf said:
And what is your response to the verses I just gave in Post #988?
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I answered them in my last post,some specifically, some generically. was there one you had in mind?

Regards, OldProf
 
paul_c said:
What about Romans 2: 12-16? [BIBLEDRB]Romans 2: 12-16[/BIBLEDRB].

Because its not true. The path to salvation begins with God’s grace and without it, no one can be saved. But Man also has a role: he has to cooperate with God’s grace to be saved. Jesus leads us to heaven and we must follow. If we only follow for a time and then take another path, we will not arrive in heaven. Isn’t that clear? And isn’t it very clear that some people do indeed follow the Lord until other things distract them, like money or security or sex or persecution? Remember the parable of the sower? [BIBLEDRB]Luke 8: 4-15[/BIBLEDRB] Notice verse 13: they believe for a while and then fall away. From the Lords mouth to your ears
I answered them in my last post,some specifically, some generically. was there one you had in mind?
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paul c,
  1. Romans 2:12-16 won’t help you. It describes sinners, Jews and Gentiles, who will be judged. IF someone COULD do the law, then, yes, they would be justified. But, of course, no one can. Jesus, yes, but no one else. This is clear in Romans 3:9-20. The full context of Romans 1:16-3:31 is very important here - it is faith, not works.
  2. Luke 8:4-15 Parable of the Sower. That won’t help you either. This “assurance” thread is very closely tied to 1 John. Note 1 John 2:19
“They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us.” ESV, Biblegateway

The sheep, the elect, don’t leave - they continue in the faith and they “never perish”. Professing Christians who then leave the faith are not and were never Christians. At least I’ve never seen a good Scriptural argument that can overcome the explicit Greek of John 10:28 (sheep never perish, not now or at any future time).
  1. You are inconsistent. We have a role in the path to salvation? If that is the case, then I certainly can boast about my role and my works.
My statement stands: “A free will that has the ability to choose Jesus as Lord and Savior (a good thing) and then later to reject Jesus (a bad thing) tells me who is in control of salvation, doesn’t it. It is the person with free will. Where does the Bible teach that? If that is true, why cannot we boast in our own salvation?”
  1. I must have missed your answers. Tell me about John 10:28 and Php 1:6, to name just two verses.
Regards, OldProf
 
OldProf said:
paul c,

My statement stands: “A free will that has the ability to choose Jesus as Lord and Savior (a good thing) and then later to reject Jesus (a bad thing) tells me who is in control of salvation, doesn’t it. It is the person with free will. Where does the Bible teach that? If that is true, why cannot we boast in our own salvation?”

Regards, OldProf
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YOU boast God chose yourself to be saved any different? Cause that is what you are doing claiming God chose you,look at me God chose me not you.

If i choose to do what is right, it is not in my power to do so but by God’s grace i choose to do so.If i choose to do what is wrong it is by my own power that i do so. So when i choose to do right i boast in the power of God’s grace.
You boast God choose you
 
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