Assyrian Bishop, Five Priests and Thousands of Faithful Celebrate Reception into the Catholic Church

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dbacks5439,

Chaldean and Assyrian Christians do not traditionally utilize an iconostasis, rather, we utilize a veil in imitation of the old veil of the Jewish temple. Here is an example:

http://www.kaldaya.net/DailyNews_Dec2006/img/StPaul4.jpg

God bless,

Rony
Dear Rony,

Wonderfully put. The Church of the East is a Church that came up in a Semitic culture, and out from the local Jewish populations of Mesopotamia and the East. H.G. Mar Sarhad points out also how its Liturgy of Hours and the Anaphora of Mar Addai and Mar Mari “maintain genuine and cultural continuity with the apostolic euchological tradition.” The quote is from the introduction for the new translation of the Before & After by Fr. Andrew Younan {see http://www.kaldu.org/WeeklyNews.html}.

As for the term Mass… when I speak in our language, it is Qurbana Qadisha, and it is Raza Qadisha, slootha, etc. But in English, and with people around who are used to the terms Mass, Holy Eucharist, etc. why not? I don’t consider it a latinization to use the word Mass.

Peace,
 
What will the Assyrian bishop’s role be in the Chaldean Church? Will he be given his own see? Will he serve as an aux. bishop within the diocese of Sts. Peter and Paul?
 
What latin vestments? The mitres? Those are probably latinizations, but the East syriac “chausable” is similar to a latin cope. Western syriacs call it a “Phiano” but I do not know what the assyro-chaldean name for it is. I guess the cassocks here are western too…I have heard that there are a lot of latinizations in the Chaldean church.
THANKS BE TO GOD, maybe this will inspire others to follow.
 
Dear Rony,

Wonderfully put. The Church of the East is a Church that came up in a Semitic culture, and out from the local Jewish populations of Mesopotamia and the East. H.G. Mar Sarhad points out also how its Liturgy of Hours and the Anaphora of Mar Addai and Mar Mari “maintain genuine and cultural continuity with the apostolic euchological tradition.” The quote is from the introduction for the new translation of the Before & After by Fr. Andrew Younan {see http://www.kaldu.org/WeeklyNews.html}.

As for the term Mass… when I speak in our language, it is Qurbana Qadisha, and it is Raza Qadisha, slootha, etc. But in English, and with people around who are used to the terms Mass, Holy Eucharist, etc. why not? I don’t consider it a latinization to use the word Mass.

Peace,
As long as it means the same thing, I’m HAPPY.
 
Given that this is a Chaldean parish, it doesn’t actually look too Latinized at all. As others have mentioned, the Assyrian tradition has its churches relatively bare, and there isn’t a major tradition of iconography or statuary. Even the Oriental Orthodox churches I’ve been in are comparable in their interior.

The explosions of color and gold and icons that most folks identify with “Eastern” are actually peculiar to the Byzantine tradition.

Looks like a beautiful event!

Peace and God bless!
 
Given that this is a Chaldean parish, it doesn’t actually look too Latinized at all. As others have mentioned, the Assyrian tradition has its churches relatively bare, and there isn’t a major tradition of iconography or statuary. Even the Oriental Orthodox churches I’ve been in are comparable in their interior.

The explosions of color and gold and icons that most folks identify with “Eastern” are actually peculiar to the Byzantine tradition.

Looks like a beautiful event!

Peace and God bless!
Are Assyrians and Chaldeans ‘Eastern’ or ‘Oriental’? i.e. are the correpsonding Orthodox churches pre-Chalcedonian?

It seems like the Oriental Orthodox have much friendlier relations with Rome than the Eastern, which is strange since the split was so much earlier.

Thanks in advance.

God Bless
 
Dear Rony,

Wonderfully put. The Church of the East is a Church that came up in a Semitic culture, and out from the local Jewish populations of Mesopotamia and the East. H.G. Mar Sarhad points out also how its Liturgy of Hours and the Anaphora of Mar Addai and Mar Mari “maintain genuine and cultural continuity with the apostolic euchological tradition.” The quote is from the introduction for the new translation of the Before & After by Fr. Andrew Younan {see http://www.kaldu.org/WeeklyNews.html}.

As for the term Mass… when I speak in our language, it is Qurbana Qadisha, and it is Raza Qadisha, slootha, etc. But in English, and with people around who are used to the terms Mass, Holy Eucharist, etc. why not? I don’t consider it a latinization to use the word Mass.

Peace,
I welcome you with open arms, God Bless. HIS will be done. I am overjoyed for you and us. Prayers for alllllllllll.
 
It seems like the Oriental Orthodox have much friendlier relations with Rome than the Eastern, which is strange since the split was so much earlier.
Peace,

Bilop, I refer you to the thread: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=214992

Some things from that thread:
It is in our canon laws about the headship of the Roman patriarch over all other patriarchs. jj2011 specifically mentions that it was Mar Marutha who brought over the canons from the west and they contained it.

Our liturgy also blesses Great Rome where the Apostles Peter and Paul are laid.
 
Are Assyrians and Chaldeans ‘Eastern’ or ‘Oriental’? i.e. are the correpsonding Orthodox churches pre-Chalcedonian?

It seems like the Oriental Orthodox have much friendlier relations with Rome than the Eastern, which is strange since the split was so much earlier.

Thanks in advance.

God Bless
The assyrians are neither Oriental Orthodox or Eastern. They are pre-Ephesian , separating from the Church rejecting the Third Ecumenical Council.
 
The assyrians are neither Oriental Orthodox or Eastern. They are pre-Ephesian , separating from the Church rejecting the Third Ecumenical Council.
In retrospect, however, they accept the council for the most part. I do not know all the details of the Council but I know it delt with Nestorianism and today, I would say there are no more nestorians among apostolic churchs. Therefore, for the sake of clairty, the Assyrian Church of the East is not Nestorian.
 
As for the term Mass… when I speak in our language, it is Qurbana Qadisha, and it is Raza Qadisha, slootha, etc. But in English, and with people around who are used to the terms Mass, Holy Eucharist, etc. why not? I don’t consider it a latinization to use the word Mass.
Shlama Anthony,

The word “Mass” comes from the ending of the ancient Latin liturgy that says “Ite, missa est” which means “Go, it is the dismissal”.

When I speak with Chaldeans in Aramaic, I say “Raza Qadisha”, and in Arabic, I say “Qidas”, but in English, I also simply use the familiar word “Mass” and everyone understands, because if I were to say “Holy Mystery” as literally translated from “Raza Qadisha”, most everyone will stare at me with confusion.

While it is not a literal translation, the term “Mass” has been equated with “Raza Qadisha”, and as far as I know, all Chaldeans use it when speaking in English. I use it because it is what is familiar to my Chaldean audience, but I think eventually, a more literal translation of “Raza Qadisha” should be used in the future. In the new reformed liturgy, the word “Mass” is still employed in the body of the text, but in the title, we have this: “The Rite of the Divine Mysteries”.

Now, when I speak with Greek Catholics, I say “Divine Liturgy”, because that’s their preference. With Chaldeans, if I were to say “Divine Liturgy”, most of them will just be confused, because the ordinary Chaldean does not call it “Divine Liturgy”.

I was once at a Melkite Divine Liturgy, and the deacon made a slip of the tongue and said something like, a certain “Mass” will be scheduled at such and such a time, and then he quickly changed his terminology to “Divine Liturgy” knowing that he made a slip, while the people started smiling at the mistake. I realized how important it is to them to keep the correct terminology. However, if this was at a Chaldean parish, then nobody would have cared, because most everyone calls it a “Mass” anyways.

Just my thoughts, take care brother,

God bless,

Rony
 
Here is a good Christological diagram of the Church of the East:

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

God bless,

Rony
 
Shlama Anthony,

The word “Mass” comes from the ending of the ancient Latin liturgy that says “Ite, missa est” which means “Go, it is the dismissal”.

When I speak with Chaldeans in Aramaic, I say “Raza Qadisha”, and in Arabic, I say “Qidas”, but in English, I also simply use the familiar word “Mass” and everyone understands, because if I were to say “Holy Mystery” as literally translated from “Raza Qadisha”, most everyone will stare at me with confusion.

While it is not a literal translation, the term “Mass” has been equated with “Raza Qadisha”, and as far as I know, all Chaldeans use it when speaking in English. I use it because it is what is familiar to my Chaldean audience, but I think eventually, a more literal translation of “Raza Qadisha” should be used in the future. In the new reformed liturgy, the word “Mass” is still employed in the body of the text, but in the title, we have this: “The Rite of the Divine Mysteries”.

Now, when I speak with Greek Catholics, I say “Divine Liturgy”, because that’s their preference. With Chaldeans, if I were to say “Divine Liturgy”, most of them will just be confused, because the ordinary Chaldean does not call it “Divine Liturgy”.

I was once at a Melkite Divine Liturgy, and the deacon made a slip of the tongue and said something like, a certain “Mass” will be scheduled at such and such a time, and then he quickly changed his terminology to “Divine Liturgy” knowing that he made a slip, while the people started smiling at the mistake. I realized how important it is to them to keep the correct terminology. However, if this was at a Chaldean parish, then nobody would have cared, because most everyone calls it a “Mass” anyways.

Just my thoughts, take care brother,

God bless,

Rony
I love them all. Divine Liturgy is used by us too at times. God Bless.
 
Memaw,

Are you Roman Catholic?

God bless,

Rony
Yes I am and I pray for true unity always and I am very happy about this wonderful event. I have been to different liturgys over the years and found them all to be very inspiring and special. WELCOME, Memaw
 
Great discussion.

I have a question. (I’m not sure if it would be better to put this here or to start a new thread, but here goes … )

I was just thinking: I’m sure I have, over the years, come across a number of small websites devoted to Oriental (i.e. non-Byzantine) Eastern Catholic Churches, but I can’t think of any really major ones.

Are there, in fact, any Oriental Catholic websites that are, if you will, household words among Oriental Catholics (the way the ByzCath website is for Byzantine-Rite Eastern Catholics)?

(The Eastern Catholic section on EWTN’s Q&A page has undoubtedly been a great resource for Oriental Catholics as well. But now that that’s closed … )

Thanks in advance.
Blessings,
Peter.
 
Peter J,

I’m not aware of any major household websites among Eastern and Oriental Catholics (not of the Greek-Catholic tradition) like how byzcath.org is for the Greek Catholics. I know there exists lots of small sites like kaldu.org for us Assyro-Chaldeans.

I followed Anthony Dragani when the EWTN Eastern Catholic Churches forum first started out, and I’ve learned quiet a number of things from him (his general info. on the ECCs were quiet good in my opinion), but again, since he was a Byzantine Catholic, then that tradition was reflected often in his posts. I also recollect that not all Greek-Catholics liked his approach on a few things, one is the concept of a “Final Theosis” that comes to mind.

Here is hoping for a future major household website for ALL Oriental/Eastern Catholics.:gopray2:

God bless,

Rony
 
Could someone distill?

3,000 faithful. One parish i guess? Or two. A splinter group at best.

Does the bishop who converted become a bishop in the Chaldean rite? And will his “see” be just the one or two parishes that converted?

How are other Orthodox Assyrian in the US reacting if at all. This seems a rather small move except for the fact it includes a bishop. Is it St. Thomas parish or St. Matthew? Again the link is unclear.

Bottom line, practically, what has happened. One bishop, 6 priests. One new catholic Assyrain Chaldean parish? Or are the 3000 scattered among parishes not converting and how will that work? I followed the link above but it is too general regarding the Chaldean Catholics. I can’t separate out what this specific conversion entails.
 
Could someone distill?

3,000 faithful. One parish i guess? Or two. A splinter group at best.

Does the bishop who converted become a bishop in the Chaldean rite? And will his “see” be just the one or two parishes that converted?

How are other Orthodox Assyrian in the US reacting if at all. This seems a rather small move except for the fact it includes a bishop. Is it St. Thomas parish or St. Matthew? Again the link is unclear.

Bottom line, practically, what has happened. One bishop, 6 priests. One new catholic Assyrain Chaldean parish? Or are the 3000 scattered among parishes not converting and how will that work? I followed the link above but it is too general regarding the Chaldean Catholics. I can’t separate out what this specific conversion entails.
It’s actually more like a diocese, with a couple of parishes. The various Assyrian Churches are actually rather small in population compared to other Apostolic Churches, so one diaspora (not in the homeland) diocese might only have a few parishes. That being said, it is still only a portion of non-Catholic Assyrians who entered Communion, but that does not diminish the significance in any way.

Another thing to consider is that Mar Bawai Soro is perhaps the foremost scholar on Assyrian Christianity, and is in many ways responsible for their recognition among other Apostolic Christians as being truly Apostolic. He’s not an insignificant figure by any stretch, and he’s helped ALL Assyrian-tradition Christians, Catholic and non-Catholic, to rediscover their unique historical identity and heritage.

Hopefully someone will correct me if I’m incorrect in any of this.

Peace and God bless!
 
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