R
ronyodish
Guest
God bless,
Rony
Assyrian Bishop, Five Priests and Thousands of Faithful Celebrate Reception into the Catholic Church
- Status
God bless,
Rony
R
rien
Guest
Thanks.
Any idea of how other American Assyrian Chritians, non-Catholic, are reacting to this?
Is it a big thing. 3,000 converts? How many Assyrain Chritians are there - 300,000 or more in the US. Even that low number makes the 3,000 converts quite small as a a percentage.
G
Ghosty
Guest
I’ve not heard of any reactions yet, though I’m very interested in hearing about it.
Peace and God bless!
C
Chaldean_Rite
Guest
Please spare us all your meaningless comment.
F
Formosus
Guest
1 conversion is a big thing rien.
R
Rolltide
Guest
According to Wikipedia:
**
The Assyrian Church of the East (in the United States)**
Diocese of Eastern United States
Overseen by His Holiness Mar Dinkha IV Catholicos Patriarch, the Diocese of Eastern United States consists of 9 Churches.
Diocese of Western California
Currently overseen by Bishop Mar Odisho Oraham, the Diocese of Western California consists of 4 Churches.
Diocese of Western United States
Overseen by His Grace Bishop Mar Aprim Khamis, consists of over 6 Churches and a Mission.
Given the small number of parishes, I would say that this is a pretty significant conversion, at least with regard to the United States.
(It is interesting that the single Assyrian patriarch, Mar Dinkha IV resides in Chicago.)
po18guy
Well-known member
Ah, but it is a movement in the right direction! More unity than before. Unity requires humility and obedience. This models Jesus rather well, as he was meek and humble of heart, and obedient unto death. Praise God in Heaven! Amen!
M
Memaw
Guest
AMEN and we could all use a big dose of humility and obedience, God Bless.
M
momkat1963
Guest
I met Mar Bawai and some of his clergy at a Catholic/Orthodox ecumenical conference at Catholic University several years ago. They graciously celebrated their Eucharistic Liturgy for the conference members, an event which I hope never to forget. Mar Bawai also delivered at least one talk. I remember him with great respect and affection and am so happy for him and his people. May God grant him many years!
P
Peter_J
Guest
From Catholic News Agency:
**Assyrian bishop explains his journey into communion with the Catholic Church **
San Jose, CA., Jun 5, 2008 / 03:44 am (CNA).- Last month, Bishop Mar Bawai Soro and nearly 1,000 Assyrian Christian families were received into communion with the Chaldean Catholic Church in California. Bishop Bawai explained the process to CNA, and expressed his hope that other Assyrian churches will also consider uniting with the Catholic Church.
The Assyrian Church, centered in modern-day Iraq, dates back to the earliest days of Christianity. Around the fifth century, the Assyrian followers began to embrace the teachings of Nestorius, Archbishop of Constantinople whose doctrines were condemned by the Council of Ephesus in 431.
However, at the beginning in the sixteenth century, large numbers of Nestorian Assyrians came into union with Rome, creating the Chaldean Catholic Church which is now larger than the Assyrian Church.
Bishop Soro described the process of coming into communion with the Catholic Church to CNA: Twenty years ago, many of the Assyrian church’s faithful realized that other than Papal Primacy, there were no theological issues that existed between themselves and the Catholic Church. He explained that, “the more I studied Catholic theology, the more I became certain that both Churches were basically of the same apostolic faith and practice.”
The Assyrian prelate wasn’t the only one who saw this similarity. Bishop Soro recalled that, “at the same time, this hypothesis was also pondered upon by the official dialogue between the Catholic Church and the Assyrian Church of the East. The conclusion after twenty years of casual ‘talks’ and official dialogue proved this hypothesis to be correct.”
However, in 2004 the patriarch and bishops “decided to suspend the dialogue with Rome” even though “all obstacles for restoring communion with the Catholic Church (Papal Primacy not included)” were proven not to exist.
Bishop Soro said that his fellow bishops’ rejection came despite a recognition that there was an agreement between the two traditions. He explained that, “they knew well that the ecclesial patrimony of the Assyrian Church of the East – canonical, liturgical, and patristic – recognizes the Primacy of the See of Rome. Despite the fact that this was my appeal and argument to my church leaders for many years - -be faithful to your tradition and enter the Catholic Communion, i.e., accept the Primacy of the Pope - - they did not listen.”
Instead, in 2005, “they decided both to break the dialogue with Rome and to suspend me from the Assyrian Church of the East. And so, since 2005, I have been able to rally those Assyrian faithful who became as discontent with their church’s attitude as I was and bring them to understand that the best step to be taken is the restoration of communion with Rome. In the past two and half years, we gradually paved the way for the historic move to unite with the Chaldean Church.”
Bishop Bar Mawai also spoke of his hope for the rest of the Assyrian Church of the East to unite with Rome. In an interview with Terrasanta.net, the bishop stated that while there is a possibility for community, two factors must be considered: time and hard work.
The prelate explained: “At the present time, some of the anger has to melt away before any realistic attempt is reinitiated. We are doing all that is humanly possible to reply with compassion and reason to all the accusation and condemnations some of the radical Assyrian groups and individuals are directing at us because of our union with Rome. We hope that ultimately the truth of God’s work and the message of His forgiving love will prevail over all trials.”
In regards to the second factor, the bishop emphasizes the importance of showing the world, “that church unity is a win/win proposition,” especially for Christians in Iraq. “The Christian communities out there need all the help and support they can muster. And, through such unity, for example, Iraqi Christians become more assertive of their commitment to all that will give witness to their Christian character and advance their genuine contribution Iraq.”
**Assyrian bishop explains his journey into communion with the Catholic Church **
San Jose, CA., Jun 5, 2008 / 03:44 am (CNA).- Last month, Bishop Mar Bawai Soro and nearly 1,000 Assyrian Christian families were received into communion with the Chaldean Catholic Church in California. Bishop Bawai explained the process to CNA, and expressed his hope that other Assyrian churches will also consider uniting with the Catholic Church.
The Assyrian Church, centered in modern-day Iraq, dates back to the earliest days of Christianity. Around the fifth century, the Assyrian followers began to embrace the teachings of Nestorius, Archbishop of Constantinople whose doctrines were condemned by the Council of Ephesus in 431.
However, at the beginning in the sixteenth century, large numbers of Nestorian Assyrians came into union with Rome, creating the Chaldean Catholic Church which is now larger than the Assyrian Church.
Bishop Soro described the process of coming into communion with the Catholic Church to CNA: Twenty years ago, many of the Assyrian church’s faithful realized that other than Papal Primacy, there were no theological issues that existed between themselves and the Catholic Church. He explained that, “the more I studied Catholic theology, the more I became certain that both Churches were basically of the same apostolic faith and practice.”
The Assyrian prelate wasn’t the only one who saw this similarity. Bishop Soro recalled that, “at the same time, this hypothesis was also pondered upon by the official dialogue between the Catholic Church and the Assyrian Church of the East. The conclusion after twenty years of casual ‘talks’ and official dialogue proved this hypothesis to be correct.”
However, in 2004 the patriarch and bishops “decided to suspend the dialogue with Rome” even though “all obstacles for restoring communion with the Catholic Church (Papal Primacy not included)” were proven not to exist.
Bishop Soro said that his fellow bishops’ rejection came despite a recognition that there was an agreement between the two traditions. He explained that, “they knew well that the ecclesial patrimony of the Assyrian Church of the East – canonical, liturgical, and patristic – recognizes the Primacy of the See of Rome. Despite the fact that this was my appeal and argument to my church leaders for many years - -be faithful to your tradition and enter the Catholic Communion, i.e., accept the Primacy of the Pope - - they did not listen.”
Instead, in 2005, “they decided both to break the dialogue with Rome and to suspend me from the Assyrian Church of the East. And so, since 2005, I have been able to rally those Assyrian faithful who became as discontent with their church’s attitude as I was and bring them to understand that the best step to be taken is the restoration of communion with Rome. In the past two and half years, we gradually paved the way for the historic move to unite with the Chaldean Church.”
Bishop Bar Mawai also spoke of his hope for the rest of the Assyrian Church of the East to unite with Rome. In an interview with Terrasanta.net, the bishop stated that while there is a possibility for community, two factors must be considered: time and hard work.
The prelate explained: “At the present time, some of the anger has to melt away before any realistic attempt is reinitiated. We are doing all that is humanly possible to reply with compassion and reason to all the accusation and condemnations some of the radical Assyrian groups and individuals are directing at us because of our union with Rome. We hope that ultimately the truth of God’s work and the message of His forgiving love will prevail over all trials.”
In regards to the second factor, the bishop emphasizes the importance of showing the world, “that church unity is a win/win proposition,” especially for Christians in Iraq. “The Christian communities out there need all the help and support they can muster. And, through such unity, for example, Iraqi Christians become more assertive of their commitment to all that will give witness to their Christian character and advance their genuine contribution Iraq.”
R
rpp
Guest
One conclusion that I can draw from this story is that Bishop Soro is a courageous and humble man. May God richly bless him.
P
Peter_J
Guest
bpbasilphx posted this on a recent thread:
I was just wondering, do any of you know much about this Mar Odisho of Sauwa, e.g. when did he live?bpbasilphx said:
A
antgaria
Guest
Dear PeterJ,
I’m currently at work, so I don’t have too many resources available, but after a bit of digging around in google, I finally ran into a short blurb on him on the wiki syriaca. That gives a short history on him and a list of his works, many of which are unfortunately lost.
He was a metropolitan bishop of great renown for his spiritual learning, as can be seen in his preamble to the book “Marganitha”. In it, he informs us about why he wrote the book:
The text of that work can be found for example here, but you should be careful with it in that most of the publically available translations make the mistake of translating qnoma inappropriately into person and seems to be heretical and even sometimes confusing. The Syriac texts have three concepts used which are kyana, qnoma, and parsopa, and there is a problem if one associates qnoma with person to the same usage as one would in English.
In Christ,
Anthony
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Peter_J
Guest
Thanks, Anthony! I see that Mar Odisho lived in the 13th and early 14th centuries (which is to say, in the middle of a period of Syriac history that I know very little about; but you’ve got to start somewhere, right? 
)
)
A
assyrian73
Guest
Mar Aodisho D’ Nsiwin(a district in modern Turkey) & Armenia
Mar Aodisho never recognizes or was aware of the supremacy of the pope in same way that Roman Catholic today practicing this Supremacy over the churches that are in full Communion with. Simply, Mar Aodisho by saying that the See of Rome is FIRST & HEAD of all Patriarchs, here Mar Aodisho actually saying FIRST among Equal He never believe in the Authority of Pope over Patriarchs He never mentioned in his Canonical Book which is it in Assyrian Language, so for you and many like you simply they do not understand the original Language of his Books and writes. For the case of ex-Bishop Soro, he was very selective for saying the Mar Aodisho did mentioned such Reference to the Supremacy of Rome over “all Patriarchs”, because if you read the whole expressions that Mar Aodisho write about it you gona be amazed what Mar Aodisho saying about the See of Saliq-Oqtesphon of the Church of The East. So, soro he did mentioned two references from Mar Aodisho , the First one soro misunderstand it completely by saying that Mar Aodisho confirms the “Authority” of Pope over all patriarchs:
First one: "To the Great Rome [authority] was given because the two pillars are laid [in the grave] there, Peter, I say, the head of the Apostles, and Paul, the teacher of the nations. [Rome] is the first see and the head of the patriarchs.” (Memra 9; Risha 1)
Pg: 370
The word “Authority” it is soro’s expression not Mar Aodisho, we can not find the word Authority in the original text of Canon Book by Mar Aodisho. Mar Aodiosho he here was saying that the See in Rome was granted or given Patriarchal Title because the two pillars are laid there, …….
So the case is about how the Rome City granted a Patriarchal Title. However soro misunderstood the original text (deliberately or not?).
Second one: "And as the patriarch has authority to do all he wishes in a fitting manner in such things as are beneath his authority, so the patriarch of Rome has authority over all patriarchs, like the blessed Peter over all the community, for he who is in Rome also keeps the office of Peter in all the church. He who transgresses against these things the ecumenical synod places under anathema.” (Memra 9; Risha 8).
This reference does not exit entirely in the Book of Mar Aodisho, I have the canon book of Mar Aodisho there is no such reference.
If you wish to have the book of canonical of Mar Aodisho you can buy it online:
lulu.com/content/245193
For extra information about the book of Marganita visit this link:
nestorian.org/book_of_marganitha_part_iii.html
Mar Aodisho never recognizes or was aware of the supremacy of the pope in same way that Roman Catholic today practicing this Supremacy over the churches that are in full Communion with. Simply, Mar Aodisho by saying that the See of Rome is FIRST & HEAD of all Patriarchs, here Mar Aodisho actually saying FIRST among Equal He never believe in the Authority of Pope over Patriarchs He never mentioned in his Canonical Book which is it in Assyrian Language, so for you and many like you simply they do not understand the original Language of his Books and writes. For the case of ex-Bishop Soro, he was very selective for saying the Mar Aodisho did mentioned such Reference to the Supremacy of Rome over “all Patriarchs”, because if you read the whole expressions that Mar Aodisho write about it you gona be amazed what Mar Aodisho saying about the See of Saliq-Oqtesphon of the Church of The East. So, soro he did mentioned two references from Mar Aodisho , the First one soro misunderstand it completely by saying that Mar Aodisho confirms the “Authority” of Pope over all patriarchs:
First one: "To the Great Rome [authority] was given because the two pillars are laid [in the grave] there, Peter, I say, the head of the Apostles, and Paul, the teacher of the nations. [Rome] is the first see and the head of the patriarchs.” (Memra 9; Risha 1)
Pg: 370
The word “Authority” it is soro’s expression not Mar Aodisho, we can not find the word Authority in the original text of Canon Book by Mar Aodisho. Mar Aodiosho he here was saying that the See in Rome was granted or given Patriarchal Title because the two pillars are laid there, …….
So the case is about how the Rome City granted a Patriarchal Title. However soro misunderstood the original text (deliberately or not?).
Second one: "And as the patriarch has authority to do all he wishes in a fitting manner in such things as are beneath his authority, so the patriarch of Rome has authority over all patriarchs, like the blessed Peter over all the community, for he who is in Rome also keeps the office of Peter in all the church. He who transgresses against these things the ecumenical synod places under anathema.” (Memra 9; Risha 8).
This reference does not exit entirely in the Book of Mar Aodisho, I have the canon book of Mar Aodisho there is no such reference.
If you wish to have the book of canonical of Mar Aodisho you can buy it online:
lulu.com/content/245193
For extra information about the book of Marganita visit this link:
nestorian.org/book_of_marganitha_part_iii.html
J
JackQ
Guest
I didn’t know about this. This is fantastic news!
C
Chaldean_Rite
Guest
Praise be to God!
A
allhers
Guest
R
ronyodish
Guest
assyrian73,
You should get the Nomocanon here:
gorgiaspress.com/bookshop/p-55558-abdisho-of-nisibis–the-nomocanon-of-abdisho-of-nisibis.aspx
It’s very expensive though, and I’m not sure if they even have it in stock.
The one at lulu is an abridged reprint of the “Synodicon Orientale” that was published by J. B. Chabot in 1902.
God bless,
Rony
You should get the Nomocanon here:
gorgiaspress.com/bookshop/p-55558-abdisho-of-nisibis–the-nomocanon-of-abdisho-of-nisibis.aspx
It’s very expensive though, and I’m not sure if they even have it in stock.
The one at lulu is an abridged reprint of the “Synodicon Orientale” that was published by J. B. Chabot in 1902.
God bless,
Rony
- Status