At offertory- no envelope- we pay via bank

[TheDoctor]

wrong, the parish is required to track individual donations for tax purposes. They must give a receipt for every individual donation in cash or kind over $100 and they must provide a receipt for your total annual cash donation at the end of the year. I am speaking of the US. In addition, the parish must track donations by source and destination for accounting to the diocese, since they pay a tax there on the regular collection, and special collections must be separately accounted for. Obviously if you give an anonymous donation there is no way to give a receipt, nor for you to prove it on your own tax return. The parish is required to list on their accounting to the diocese amounts received by cash, check or other sources.

Of course, however the gist I took from the post I replied to was if the Church had to track contributions or if they could be made anonymously. Since 99+% of contributors want a donation record for tax purposes it works well for both, and the electronic system fits in nicely.

Unless I am mistaken, the Church can accept and people can give anonymous donations.

 

[AnnVeronica]

Question- I get the sense that our parish priest wants everyone to pay via envelope at the offertory. I have an automated electronic payment get sent from my bank acct to the church’s. Inevermiss a payment- and it saves on paper and processing.

Does anyone see a problem with this? Has anyone run into a problem with this?

We have our kids each throw in a dollar to the basket-but we don’t use the envelope. Sometimes we may even forget to bring the spare dollars for the kids.

 

[AnnVeronica]

I think there is something to be said for bringing your offering to the altar. We continue to bring our envelope with our offering to Mass every week and if we are gone on a particular Sundy we have 2 envelopes the next Sunday. (I write out each Sunday’s check every payday out of my tithe money.)

I appreciatae those who use electronic payment and the reasons for it. I prefer to maintain the symbolism of bringing my offering to the altar.

 

[puzzleannie]

Unless I am mistaken, the Church can accept and people can give anonymous donations.

yes that is true but the parish is obligated to record and track the source of all money received, so we have to list those anonymous amoujnts as well. At my last parish the priest just put all the loose cash into the special collection of the day, or into the parishes emergency assistance fund (we did not have a St. Vincent, and that fund enabled him to give direct aid, properly accounted for, to those in need).

If you don’t use the tracking means provided by your parish, envelopes, electronic deduction or pay pal using their account # etc., you simply make the task of the counters and bookkeeper that much more laborious. It does not affect the pastor much at all. Loose checks have the same problem. But keep the money flowing in no matter how you pay, please, we are glad to get it. So many parishes here have seen huge drops in collections due to the economy. Many winter visitors have decided to support only one parish, where they used to support both their home parish in Minnesota or wherever and their local parish here, due to their own reduced retirement incomes. Yet is it not appropriate to support a parish where you spend half the year?

 

[puzzleannie]

I agree that it’s sad when you have to worry about the collection being stolen, but that’s the state of the world we live in.

As an accountant, it drives me crazy to see the lack of internal controls used to handle our parish collection. Just last week I found myself alone with the collection while the other counters ran to the office to see the secretary’s new baby. While I would never dream of doing such a thing, I could have easily helped myself to a few hundred dollars. What is especially irritating is the fact that, just a few months ago, one of the counters who left me alone with the money expressed “concern” that I (a non-Catholic who attends mass with my Catholic wife) was even trusted to help with the counting. Geez!

here the counters are not allowed to leave the room while the money is still there until it has been signed over to the people who will make the deposit. that does not stop a steady stream of people going back and forth to the bathroom.

check the news this week about a pastor who used 1.3 mil for nefarious purposes. That is why the internal controls and accounting rules should keep him from having unchecked access to funds and accounts as well.

all dioceses have these controls in place, not all pastors are rigid about applying them. I also cringe at what I see. For instance, the same team of counters should not work every week, but teams should change off, so an abberration of even a few hundred $ should be noticeable. Also parishioners should be aware the pastor is required to make an annual financial report showing where contributions have gone.

 

[Manny_DeStefano]

I am a member of our parish finance council, and appreciate the importance of a reliable offertory. We are beginning to explore electronic offertory, particularly for our parishioners who head south for the winter. What troubles me is Jesus’ admonition concernig alms giving. Rather difficult to maintain secrecy in alms giving and use either a printed offertory envelope or an electronic account. Does one make parish bookkeeping the guiding principal or the word of the Lord?

 

[Sirach2]

Puzzleannie:

If you don’t use the tracking means provided by your parish, envelopes, electronic deduction or pay pal using their account # etc., you simply make the task of the counters and bookkeeper that much more laborious.

That makes a lot of sense, and is something I had not considered as I read this thread. Our parish has teams who rotate, but around holiday time, it can involve a great deal of recording time for these volunteers.

Another point our pastor made, is that the expense of mailing envelopes every month can be lessened with respect to people who only donate a couple times a year, or those who give one check for the entire month when their pensions arrive, etc. My concern would be the automatic deduction could be posted at a time when perhaps the funds were not in the bank, resulting in overdraft fees. This would need to be carefully monitored by the donor.

 

[Phemie]

yes that is true but the parish is obligated to record and track the source of all money received, so we have to list those anonymous amoujnts as well.

If you don’t use the tracking means provided by your parish, envelopes, electronic deduction or pay pal using their account # etc., you simply make the task of the counters and bookkeeper that much more laborious.

Not really, unless the laws are different in the US. We simply record ‘loose collection’. On any given Sunday in my parish that ‘loose collection’ ranges anywhere from $150 to over $1000, depending on the time of year.

 

[FrDavid96]

I am a member of our parish finance council, and appreciate the importance of a reliable offertory. We are beginning to explore electronic offertory, particularly for our parishioners who head south for the winter. What troubles me is Jesus’ admonition concernig alms giving. Rather difficult to maintain secrecy in alms giving and use either a printed offertory envelope or an electronic account. Does one make parish bookkeeping the guiding principal or the word of the Lord?

We can’t always apply individual scripture verses to particular situations. Christ’s admonition against making a public issue out of one’s charity (like having someone blow a horn in the streets to announce a “donation”) does not translate into our own responsibilities in our modern society for proper accounting procedures. The principles apply, but the specifics don’t.

If you still want a scripture verse though, see Mark 12:42. The widow gave 2 “pennies” to support the Temple. So much for secrecy because 2,000 years later, we can all see the report of her offering.

People working in parish administration; pastor, counters, bookkeeper, etc. all have an obligation to the people who donate to be responsible stewards. There’s no conflict between the values of stewardship and humility in charitable giving.

 

[Bob_Aliano]

Not really, unless the laws are different in the US. We simply record ‘loose collection’. On any given Sunday in my parish that ‘loose collection’ ranges anywhere from $150 to over $1000, depending on the time of year.

We travel around the US a lot in the Summer and always donate to the parishes we visit using a personal check. The check gives us a record in light of the fact those parishes couldn’t possibly provide a receipt. Out of all the parishes we visited, some multiple times each year, only one ever acknowledged our donation, Our Lady of the Cove in Kimberling City, Mo.

 

[puzzleannie]

I am a member of our parish finance council, and appreciate the importance of a reliable offertory. We are beginning to explore electronic offertory, particularly for our parishioners who head south for the winter. What troubles me is Jesus’ admonition concernig alms giving. Rather difficult to maintain secrecy in alms giving and use either a printed offertory envelope or an electronic account. Does one make parish bookkeeping the guiding principal or the word of the Lord?

the practical fact of the matter is that your Sunday collection offering is not really alms-giving, except for the amount dedicated to special collections, missions, St. Vincent, Catholic Charities etc. The regular Sunday offering goes to help offset capital and overhead expense, including salaries, of operating your parish plant and its mission. Also the people doing the accounting are bound by the same laws of confidentiality that generally cover that area. That being said, were I to plan to give a large gift to my I would not do it through the parish system which often leaks like a sieve. Now if they were to list donors in the bulletin by name and amount, as I have seen in the past in the historical archives of some Protestant and Jewish congregations, that might be a problem.

 

[Phemie]

We travel around the US a lot in the Summer and always donate to the parishes we visit using a personal check. The check gives us a record in light of the fact those parishes couldn’t possibly provide a receipt. Out of all the parishes we visited, some multiple times each year, only one ever acknowledged our donation, Our Lady of the Cove in Kimberling City, Mo.

I deal with recording the collection and if there is a cheque with someone’s name on it in the collection plate they get a receipt (either at the end of the year if it’s a recurring thing) or sent to them that week if it’s an out-of-town address.

 

[Bob_Aliano]

I deal with recording the collection and if there is a cheque with someone’s name on it in the collection plate they get a receipt (either at the end of the year if it’s a recurring thing) or sent to them that week if it’s an out-of-town address.

You are a rarity indeed. Perhaps we should travel to Canada rather than around the US.

 

[Phemie]

You are a rarity indeed. Perhaps we should travel to Canada rather than around the US.

Well, if you’re into adventure travel you could take a trip to Labrador before they get the road paved. I promise that you’ll get a receipt for any cheque you drop into our collection plate.

 

[rick43235]

I deal with recording the collection and if there is a cheque with someone’s name on it in the collection plate they get a receipt (either at the end of the year if it’s a recurring thing) or sent to them that week if it’s an out-of-town address.

Same at our parish. If there is a name and address on the check, a statement goes out at the end of the year.

 

[Petergee]

Am I understanding you people correctly, that Catholic parishes in the US cannot accept anonymous donations, but must keep a ledger showing that every cent was donated by identifiable people?

 

[Petergee]

No need to write, I’m with him every day and have voiced my opinion. As far as he’s concerned he’s getting the parish ready to function without a pastor when he leaves in 14 months. I just pray that the day the bishop can’t appoint a pastor never comes because we will not be a parish any more but a business.

As I understand it, Canon Law does not permit any such thing as a “parish without a pastor”. There may not be a **resident **pastor, but every parish has a pastor who is responsible for the governance of the parish - either a priest in a neighbouring parish or the bishop himself.

And the likelihood that there will be no resident pastor makes it all the more important that the totally false and unChristian attitude that the parish is priimarily a business, must be vigourously rooted out from anyone holding any position of responsibility in the parish.

 

[Phemie]

As I understand it, Canon Law does not permit any such thing as a “parish without a pastor”. There may not be a **resident **pastor, but every parish has a pastor who is responsible for the governance of the parish - either a priest in a neighbouring parish or the bishop himself.

And the likelihood that there will be no resident pastor makes it all the more important that the totally false and unChristian attitude that the parish is priimarily a business, must be vigourously rooted out from anyone holding any position of responsibility in the parish.

As I understand Canon Law, although he can be responsible for several parishes, a priest can be Pastor of only one parish, and he resides in that parish.

 

[Bob_Aliano]

As I understand Canon Law, although he can be responsible for several parishes, a priest can be Pastor of only one parish, and he resides in that parish.

I did a quick check of a parish here in Colorado which I know does not have a resident priest. The archdiocese of Pueblo lists Bayfield as having St. Bartholemew parish with an administrator rather than a pastor.

 

[FrDavid96]

Am I understanding you people correctly, that Catholic parishes in the US cannot accept anonymous donations, but must keep a ledger showing that every cent was donated by identifiable people?

No. There’s a misunderstanding. The parish itself has a responsibility to keep track of all donations. It isn’t that a parish “cannot” accept an anonymous donation, but that when those donations come in, they are recorded as such. Parishes will use vocabulary like “loose cash” or something similar. Whether it’s one dollar or ten thousand dollars, it all has to be recorded.

If it isn’t possible to record the donor’s name, then that part simply isn’t done–but it’s still recorded as “anonymous” or whatever else.

The issue here is that the parish has a responsibility to both record donations and to give receipts. When people donate but in a way that makes it impossible or even difficult to give a receipt, this causes an administrative problem for the parish staff because they are obligated to do something, but they can’t do it.

The law in the US is that if someone makes a donation of $250 or more, the organization must provide (or at least offer) a receipt. The parish can’t fulfill its obligation to give a receipt if the donor is anonymous. Exact policy will vary by diocese but in general, parishes must give annual receipts to anyone who donates regularly.

The reason for this is that in the past, people used all kinds of methods to “fake” donations to charitable causes. Sometimes people would buy things from the parish (like ten $10 tickets to a chicken dinner), and call this a donation, which it isn’t because the person receives goods in return for money–and then use the cancelled $100 check as a receipt at tax time. Others would write a check to the church and cash that check from the collection basket. Again, at tax time, they used their checks as receipts to show a donation that never happened. In response to this, the laws were changed to require charitable organizations to give receipts stating specifically that the money exchanged was a donation and nothing more, and to say that cancelled checks cannot be used in place of receipts.

Many people are under the false impression that a cancelled check is sufficient to show a donation when they file their taxes. That used to be true in the past, but it is not that way anymore. The new laws (as well as a new perspective on fiscal responsibility) prompted dioceses to institute new policies that “everyone gets a receipt” and every reasonable effort has to be made by the parish to make this possible.

What I’m trying to say here is that when people contribute to a parish in such a way that the parish is obligated to give a receipt, but at the same time, the parish cannot fulfill that obligation, it puts the parish into a difficult position. It isn’t that anonymous donations cannot be accepted.

Does that help explain it?