At this rate, I won't feel like I belong in any church

[Truth_Faith13]

So for the past couple of months, I have been reading and posting on here, I’ve watched episodes of journey home on EWTN, I’ve read the shorter explained version of theology of the body, I’ve read “The Protestants Dilemma”, the early church fathers and Jacobs Ladder: 10 steps to truth. I’m in the process of reading the catechism too. I have also been attending mass on occasion and spoken to a priest once. Thank you to all of your suggestions so far, it’s helped a great deal.

When I first came here, I felt as if I was drawn to the Catholic Church but didn’t understand or agree with many of its teachings. on reflection, reading and praying about these things, I find myself more drawn to the Catholic Church then ever before. Even my atheist husband has an attraction to it.

I’ve realised I have always believed in the real presence, I just didn’t realise I did. I believe in the communion of the saints, I believe in the sacrament of reconciliation. When I sit at mass, I feel Gods presence greater than I ever have done before, it’s a wonderful feeling,

…HOWEVER…I do still have issues and every time I feel like I have sorted one issues, another comes about.bThe biggest for me is contraception, I can’t get my head around it. I have tried to but can’t. Then I come across a post in my “validity of marriage” thread about a revert whose 30year marriage is being broken because the church doesn’t recognise it - this infuriates me. It’s so big on divorce, yet willing to break up a 30year legal marriage? especially when it’s ok for me to be married to an atheist just because we were married before I will have become (maybe) catholic?

So here is my dilemma, I can’t go back to the Protestant churches, I don’t feel anything there, it just feels like four walls, artificial. Not the truth. Yet, I don’t feel in complete approval of the Catholic Church either. So now I feel stuck in no church…

 

[Tantum_ergo]

So for the past couple of months, I have been reading and posting on here, I’ve watched episodes of journey home on EWTN, I’ve read the shorter explained version of theology of the body, I’ve read “The Protestants Dilemma”, the early church fathers and Jacobs Ladder: 10 steps to truth. I’m in the process of reading the catechism too. I have also been attending mass on occasion and spoken to a priest once. Thank you to all of your suggestions so far, it’s helped a great deal.

When I first came here, I felt as if I was drawn to the Catholic Church but didn’t understand or agree with many of its teachings. on reflection, reading and praying about these things, I find myself more drawn to the Catholic Church then ever before. Even my atheist husband has an attraction to it.

I’ve realised I have always believed in the real presence, I just didn’t realise I did. I believe in the communion of the saints, I believe in the sacrament of reconciliation. When I sit at mass, I feel Gods presence greater than I ever have done before, it’s a wonderful feeling,

…HOWEVER…I do still have issues and every time I feel like I have sorted one issues, another comes about.bThe biggest for me is contraception, I can’t get my head around it. I have tried to but can’t. Then I come across a post in my “validity of marriage” thread about a revert whose 30year marriage is being broken because the church doesn’t recognise it - this infuriates me. It’s so big on divorce, yet willing to break up a 30year legal marriage? especially when it’s ok for me to be married to an atheist just because we were married before I will have become (maybe) catholic?

So here is my dilemma, I can’t go back to the Protestant churches, I don’t feel anything there, it just feels like four walls, artificial. Not the truth. Yet, I don’t feel in complete approval of the Catholic Church either. So now I feel stuck in no church…

Give it time. Lots of prayers coming your way. . .I know it’s hard, but God’s guiding you. Listen to Him, ask Him to help you.

 

[EnglishTeacher]

So for the past couple of months, I have been reading and posting on here, I’ve watched episodes of journey home on EWTN, I’ve read the shorter explained version of theology of the body, I’ve read “The Protestants Dilemma”, the early church fathers and Jacobs Ladder: 10 steps to truth. I’m in the process of reading the catechism too. I have also been attending mass on occasion and spoken to a priest once. Thank you to all of your suggestions so far, it’s helped a great deal.

When I first came here, I felt as if I was drawn to the Catholic Church but didn’t understand or agree with many of its teachings. on reflection, reading and praying about these things, I find myself more drawn to the Catholic Church then ever before. Even my atheist husband has an attraction to it.

I’ve realised I have always believed in the real presence, I just didn’t realise I did. I believe in the communion of the saints, I believe in the sacrament of reconciliation. When I sit at mass, I feel Gods presence greater than I ever have done before, it’s a wonderful feeling,

…HOWEVER…I do still have issues and every time I feel like I have sorted one issues, another comes about.

Do you believe that the Catholic Church is the true Church, founded by Christ? If so, then there comes a point when you just have to take a leap of faith and jump in, so to speak. When I was considering becoming a Catholic a few years ago, I found that I still had a few remaining issues with Catholic teaching, too. But I believed that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, and that he founded a Church to safeguard the truth; and so I figured that I just needed to grow in understanding on the issues that I still had problems with. I found that once I joined RCIA and began living as a Catholic, the remaining doubts fell away one by one, and I did come to understand and believe all that the Catholic Church teaches. (You are welcome to PM me if you want to talk more.)

Then I come across a post in my “validity of marriage” thread about a revert whose 30year marriage is being broken because the church doesn’t recognise it - this infuriates me. It’s so big on divorce, yet willing to break up a 30year legal marriage? especially when it’s ok for me to be married to an atheist just because we were married before I will have become (maybe) catholic?

Why are you so quick to assume that the Church is trying to “break up” a marriage? From reading the post that you referred to, it sounds like the poster married outside the Church many years ago and is now waiting for her marriage to be convalidated.

It can be hard, I know. But keep praying, and stay close to God. The peace that you feel at Mass, is the Holy Spirit drawing you to himself. Take it one step at a time.

 

[mek42]

What are the expectations of those waiting for convalidation?

 

[EasterJoy]

I could go into details, but I think your problem may be that you’ve only spoken to a priest once. You are stuck being your own judge of religions; this is a job beyond mortals!

Understanding in the best and deepest and most sustaining sense is built on a foundation of faith, and not the other way around. I remember a priest who put this very well. He reminded his listeners that Jesus said, “It is the spirit that gives life, while the flesh is of no avail. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and life. But there are some of you who do not believe.” (John 6:63-64a) The priest pointed out that Jesus wasn’t upset with those who didn’t understand–nobody understood! He was disappointed in those who lacked faith in Him. And in Matthew, when Simon professed his belief in the Lord, Jesus did not say, *“Good for you, Simon! At least you get it! You are so much more clever than the rest of these!” *No, the priest pointed out, Our Lord said, *“Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah. For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my heavenly Father.” *(Matt. 16:17) The Lord did not require that his disciples understand. He required that they trusted, that they were willing to believe.

That is not to say that understanding is not important. It is. It is to say that in the vast majority of cases, faith comes first, then understanding. Certainly the understanding that profits is built on faith. Those who make their faith wait on understanding very often remain agnostic or find themselves refraining from any personal encounters with God. This even includes some people who are scholars of religion, who understand more things about more different religions than almost anyone else! With all that study, they don’t necessary find faith in anything. The famous expert in comparative religion, Joseph Campbell, in spite of all his knowledge, had lost the Catholic faith of his childhood. It is not always this way–God is persistent and imaginative beyond belief in His pursuit of souls!! Still, the exceptions prove the rule, which is that those who let their faith draw them into understanding come to a deeper understanding. The deep understanding that is built on faith is unavailable to those whose vast knowledge is all in their heads, the ones who are waiting for the fact that will force them to believe. They are waiting for a long shot, to put it mildly.

Did you know that RCIA classes usually start in September but do not ask candidates to take steps to join the Church until months later? Some parishes even call the initial classes “Inquiry Classes,” and structure them for so that they also benefit non-Catholic spouses or friends who quite resolutely do not want to join the Church but do want to know more about it in order to understand their Catholic loved ones better. Please consider signing up for RCIA inquiry classes this fall. In the meantime, do talk to your parish priest. He may have some suggestions for you to follow in the long meantime.

 

[Truth_Faith13]

I could go into details, but I think your problem may be that you’ve only spoken to a priest once. You are stuck being your own judge of religions; this is a job beyond mortals!

Understanding in the best and deepest and most sustaining sense is built on a foundation of faith, and not the other way around. I remember a priest who put this very well. He reminded his listeners that Jesus said, “It is the spirit that gives life, while the flesh is of no avail. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and life. But there are some of you who do not believe.” (John 6:63-64a) The priest pointed out that Jesus wasn’t upset with those who didn’t understand–nobody understood! He was disappointed in those who lacked faith in Him. And in Matthew, when Simon professed his belief in the Lord, Jesus did not say, *“Good for you, Simon! At least you get it! You are so much more clever than the rest of these!” *No, the priest pointed out, Our Lord said, *“Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah. For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my heavenly Father.” *(Matt. 16:17) The Lord did not require that his disciples understand. He required that they trusted, that they were willing to believe.

That is not to say that understanding is not important. It is. It is to say that in the vast majority of cases, faith comes first, then understanding. Certainly the understanding that profits is built on faith. Those who make their faith wait on understanding very often remain agnostic or find themselves refraining from any personal encounters with God. This even includes some people who are scholars of religion, who understand more things about more different religions than almost anyone else! With all that study, they don’t necessary find faith in anything. The famous expert in comparative religion, Joseph Campbell, in spite of all his knowledge, had lost the Catholic faith of his childhood. It is not always this way–God is persistent and imaginative beyond belief in His pursuit of souls!! Still, the exceptions prove the rule, which is that those who let their faith draw them into understanding come to a deeper understanding. The deep understanding that is built on faith is unavailable to those whose vast knowledge is all in their heads, the ones who are waiting for the fact that will force them to believe. They are waiting for a long shot, to put it mildly.

Did you know that RCIA classes usually start in September but do not ask candidates to take steps to join the Church until months later? Some parishes even call the initial classes “Inquiry Classes,” and structure them for so that they also benefit non-Catholic spouses or friends who quite resolutely do not want to join the Church but do want to know more about it in order to understand their Catholic loved ones better. Please consider signing up for RCIA inquiry classes this fall. In the meantime, do talk to your parish priest. He may have some suggestions for you to follow in the long meantime.

Thank you for your reply, I have emailed the priest and asked him for another meeting and asked if we have RCIA here. I’m waiting for his response. The last time he took about a week and I understand he is busy. He asked me to email him on Sunday after mass when I spoke to him briefly.

 

[EasterJoy]

What are the expectations of those waiting for convalidation?

They are expected at least to refrain from marital relations until it can be verified that they were free to marry when they did, or at least that they are free to marry now. I mean that it must be verified that they have never married at all or that none of their previous marriages are valid marriages to a living person, and that there are no other impediments to a valid marriage. The Church cannot bless a bigamous or impossible marriage.

 

[Truth_Faith13]

Do you believe that the Catholic Church is the true Church, founded by Christ?

Yes I do, I guess I just haven’t come to the conclusion that it’s completely free from error yet.

 

[EasterJoy]

Thank you for your reply, I have emailed the priest and asked him for another meeting and asked if we have RCIA here. I’m waiting for his response. The last time he took about a week and I understand he is busy. He asked me to email him on Sunday after mass when I spoke to him briefly.

I think he’ll get you on track. He’s busy, but do not be afraid to be persistent with him and in prayer about the help you need. Remember the story of the persistent widow! (Luke 18:1-8)

 

[EasterJoy]

Yes I do, I guess I just haven’t come to the conclusion that it’s completely free from error yet.

Do not worry about that just yet. You are feeling hunger pangs, but you are not meant to be able to feed yourself. Help is on the way!

 

[Lormar]

Yes I do, I guess I just haven’t come to the conclusion that it’s completely free from error yet.

Did it ever occur to you that your the one who isn’t free from error yet and not the Church? I ask this because I have made a similar mistake in thinking as you are doing, and I’ve been Catholic since I was four weeks old.

A long time ago, a woman who had been having difficulties with Church teaching, after I asked her how she was doing, said to me: “I realized that I was the one who needed to change and not the Church.”

Some food for thought and prayer.

 

[1ke]

Then I come across a post in my “validity of marriage” thread about a revert whose 30year marriage is being broken because the church doesn’t recognise it - this infuriates me. It’s so big on divorce, yet willing to break up a 30year legal marriage? especially when it’s ok for me to be married to an atheist just because we were married before I will have become (maybe) catholic?

I think you need to be more discriminating when reading posts. Often only part of the story is posted. You have leaped to an erroneous conclusion and have gotten indignant on the part of the poster without knowing the whole story.

The Church is not breaking up any marriage. The poster in that case ran into some communication problems and an unreturned email from a deacon. That is NOT breaking up a marriage. That is a delay in convalidation due to people being busy during Christmas. I am sorry it happened to her. Reading other posts it becomes clear that poster is upset by the situation, but hardly being told to “break up” by anyone.

But really if you get in a huff and decide you aren’t going to be Catholic based on anonymous posts on the internet when the stories are not even accurate-- well, I am sorry but I think that is a silly thing to base your conversion or non-conversion on.

 

[Jon_S_1]

So for the past couple of months, I have been reading and posting on here, I’ve watched episodes of journey home on EWTN, I’ve read the shorter explained version of theology of the body, I’ve read “The Protestants Dilemma”, the early church fathers and Jacobs Ladder: 10 steps to truth. I’m in the process of reading the catechism too. I have also been attending mass on occasion and spoken to a priest once. Thank you to all of your suggestions so far, it’s helped a great deal.

When I first came here, I felt as if I was drawn to the Catholic Church but didn’t understand or agree with many of its teachings. on reflection, reading and praying about these things, I find myself more drawn to the Catholic Church then ever before. Even my atheist husband has an attraction to it.

I’ve realised I have always believed in the real presence, I just didn’t realise I did. I believe in the communion of the saints, I believe in the sacrament of reconciliation. When I sit at mass, I feel Gods presence greater than I ever have done before, it’s a wonderful feeling,

…HOWEVER…I do still have issues and every time I feel like I have sorted one issues, another comes about.bThe biggest for me is contraception, I can’t get my head around it. I have tried to but can’t. Then I come across a post in my “validity of marriage” thread about a revert whose 30year marriage is being broken because the church doesn’t recognise it - this infuriates me. It’s so big on divorce, yet willing to break up a 30year legal marriage? especially when it’s ok for me to be married to an atheist just because we were married before I will have become (maybe) catholic?

So here is my dilemma, I can’t go back to the Protestant churches, I don’t feel anything there, it just feels like four walls, artificial. Not the truth. Yet, I don’t feel in complete approval of the Catholic Church either. So now I feel stuck in no church…

I would suggest starting the RCIA classes and see if that helps your questions.

One thing to check out might be something on Authority, like Tim Staples Truth and Consequences.

You still have the Protestant mentality that you are the authority on deciding truth. In Catholicism Truth is given by God and protected by the church.

No one said following God was easy, if you find a church where it is “easy” it’s not truth.

 

[Truth_Faith13]

I think you need to be more discriminating when reading posts. Often only part of the story is posted. You have leaped to an erroneous conclusion and have gotten indignant on the part of the poster without knowing the whole story.

The Church is not breaking up any marriage. The poster in that case ran into some communication problems and an unreturned email from a deacon. That is NOT breaking up a marriage. That is a delay in convalidation due to people being busy during Christmas. I am sorry it happened to her. Reading other posts it becomes clear that poster is upset by the situation, but hardly being told to “break up” by anyone.

But really if you get in a huff and decide you aren’t going to be Catholic based on anonymous posts on the internet when the stories are not even accurate-- well, I am sorry but I think that is a silly thing to base your conversion or non-conversion on.

I can’t help the way I feel about things, I was being honest. I used her story as an example, but it was something I already struggled with. I’m sorry you feel that I am being silly and who are you to say her story isn’t accurate? How very dare you! She is clearly upset by the situation and maybe she has misunderstood (and maybe have I), but to come back with an arrogant, self indulged post as if you know everything is wrong. All you have to do is explain in a kind and Christian way and we maybe more open to understanding (as I was with another poster who took the time to answer my concerns…I notice you didn’t bother reading those posts) .

Catholics who don’t act in a Christian way also put me off sometimes but hey I accept that I’m only human and not perfect! I am grateful for the posters on here who have been very helpful in explaining things even if my views have been “silly”.

 

[EasterJoy]

I think you need to be more discriminating when reading posts. Often only part of the story is posted. You have leaped to an erroneous conclusion and have gotten indignant on the part of the poster without knowing the whole story.

The Church is not breaking up any marriage. The poster in that case ran into some communication problems and an unreturned email from a deacon. That is NOT breaking up a marriage. That is a delay in convalidation due to people being busy during Christmas. I am sorry it happened to her. Reading other posts it becomes clear that poster is upset by the situation, but hardly being told to “break up” by anyone.

But really if you get in a huff and decide you aren’t going to be Catholic based on anonymous posts on the internet when the stories are not even accurate-- well, I am sorry but I think that is a silly thing to base your conversion or non-conversion on.

The poor OP lacks any guidance, and has been trying to cobble this all together by personal effort alone. With sound teaching, I think most of these problems can be addressed, don’t you? Yet some denominations cut their believers loose to figure it all out on their own, so people can get the impression that they’re supposed to be able to discern the truth all on their own. It is an understandable misconception to have, in the OPs situation. Unfortunate, incorrect, but understandable. If we were cut loose on the internet on our own, with no education to correct what we read, we’d be sorely tempted to do as she has, I would think.

 

[1ke]

I can’t help the way I feel about things, I was being honest. I used her story as an example, but it was something I already struggled with. I’m sorry you feel that I am being silly

I did not say that YOU were silly. I said the decision to become catholic or not based on anonymous stories on the internet-- ones that may or may not even be true-- seemed like a silly reason. I would hope your reasons would be based on something more substantial.

and who are you to say her story isn’t accurate?

Her own posts say that.

How very dare you! She is clearly upset by the situation and maybe she has misunderstood (and maybe have I), but to come back with an arrogant, self indulged post as if you know everything is wrong.

I am sorry that you see it that way. I don’t believe my answer was arrogant or “self indulged”. I don’t believe I know everything. I do think I know some things.

All you have to do is explain in a kind and Christian way and we maybe more open to understanding (as I was with another poster who took the time to answer my concerns…I notice you didn’t bother reading those posts)

Not commenting on a post does not mean I did not read it.

Catholics who don’t act in a Christian way also put me off sometimes but hey I accept that I’m only human and not perfect!

As am I. I assume this was a barb directed at me. Look, this is the internet, and the written word does not always come across as intended.

I did not mean to offend you, but to offer you another perpsective where perhaps emotional reactions to things on the internet were less a part of your decision making process on something so important.

I am sorry I offended you.

 

[Truth_Faith13]

I am sorry I offended you.

Thank you, I’m sorry if I over reacted, I’m an emotional person and it probably stems from being frustrated at every time I feel like I’m getting somewhere, something happens which puts me back.

The other posters are right, I’m still in Protestant mentality mode in some aspects and I know it’s probably me in error and not the church…but I can’t lie and pretend I’m ok with something when I’m not.

 

[Jon_S_1]

Thank you, I’m sorry if I over reacted, I’m an emotional person and it probably stems from being frustrated at every time I feel like I’m getting somewhere, something happens which puts me back.

The other posters are right, I’m still in Protestant mentality mode in some aspects and I know it’s probably me in error and not the church…but I can’t lie and pretend I’m ok with something when I’m not.

For me, once I was “Ok” with the Church’s authority it was far easier to clear my hurdles. If you can see the churches valid claim on truth then it is far easier to trust them even when it’s hard.

 

[christofirst]

The Church is currently preparing for the Synod on the Family and Evangelization, later this year, which will address many of the concerns in the OP. Divorce and remarriage, contraception, cohabitation, and other issues regarding family life today will be discussed, and we the laity had an opportunity to give our (name removed by moderator)ut as well via a questionnaire offered a few months ago. Regardless of the results of this Synod of bishops, the very fact that Pope Francis called for it in the first place shows that the Church does indeed acknowledge and is sensitive to concerns such as yours. I think if you could ask him, our Holy Father would likely tell you that you certainly do belong in the Church, concerns and all. Like others here have stated, I would certainly pray that my ideas be in line with Church teaching, but one need not feel excluded for having questions and doubts.

 

[St_Francis]

Thank you, I’m sorry if I over reacted, I’m an emotional person and it probably stems from being frustrated at every time I feel like I’m getting somewhere, something happens which puts me back.

The other posters are right, I’m still in Protestant mentality mode in some aspects and I know it’s probably me in error and not the church…but I can’t lie and pretend I’m ok with something when I’m not.

I know this may sound crazy, but pray for understanding. It does work!