At what age is it desirable to enter God's Kingdom?

[Bruno_Schulz]

**We take it a greater catastrophe when a young than when an old person dies.
But isn’t any age the right age, as long as one recognized God? God recognized us, long before we where born, might even be before Christ was born into this world, God knew who will be His. His - even when not born, because we aborted this human before his birth.

It was so ridiculous in the British Cath. Forum, when a lady quarrelled with me for so long, insisting that newborns who die before being baptized, get into purgatory! So, let’s hope, this won’t hold the thread.

In any case; the many very young people who die, my son Bjoern who was murdered, so many young soldiers around the world who died for a silly war they did not want, children who die…
It in fact doesn’t really matter when they or we ourselves die. If these young people are innocent, surely they are in Gods Kingdom or at least Gods hemisphere and definitely would not be wanting to return - unless; they made a lot of wrong and would do better - but can not now and have to carry the consequences.
Children though, hardly do wrong, newborns can’t do anything at all and are not guilty of not being baptized or being aborted. This sin lies on our community.

Back to the question “at what age is it desirable to enter God’s Kingdom”:
Of course its easy to say: Any age is the right age. But what then about the commandment: “HONOR YOUR FATHER AND YOUR MOTHER, SO THAT YOUR DAYS MAY BE LONG…” ??? is that just to bee seen for Gods own People the Jews at the time of Moses? – for it goes on: “… IN THE LAND THAT THE LORD YOUR GOD IS GIVING YOU.”

Oh well - we will see anyhow, so it doesn’t make too much sense to worry. Jesus Himself said, don’t worry (Mat 6:31-34)
If we live in God and don’t do wrong - everything is all right! And to die - is the door to god - in fact, we won’t die (John 11,25) for life goes on in death - greater than ever.
**

 

[bpbasilphx]

We enter God’s Kingdom, the Church, through Baptism.

 

[Bruno_Schulz]

We enter God’s Kingdom, the Church, through Baptism.

**Aren’t there very many reasons to doubt that? For so many devils had been baptised. Take Hitler and Stalin for a start. They fought against Christendom, so they did not enter God’s Kingdom through baptism.

The devil himself, Satan (later called Lucifer after the morning-star Venus) had been an angel of high rank in heaven. He was in Gods Kingdom, but was abandoned forever.

When we are on earth, we are not in Gods Kingdome, even when we live fully in God; fully in the word of God. Gods Kingdome can not be here. Jesus Himself told us in Joh 14,2:
„In my Father’s house there are many dwelling places. If there were not,
would I have told you that I am going to prepare a place for you?“

The question is. When would it be best time for us to leave this world and enter in the by Jesus Christ so often named heaven?
Young?
How young?
Old?
How old?
Or if so, rather - in which state of superior wisdom?
**

 

[SD_Catholic]

**Aren’t there very many reasons to doubt that? For so many devils had been baptised. Take Hitler and Stalin for a start. They fought against Christendom, so they did not enter God’s Kingdom through baptism.

The devil himself, Satan (later called Lucifer after the morning-star Venus) had been an angel of high rank in heaven. He was in Gods Kingdom, but was abandoned forever.

When we are on earth, we are not in Gods Kingdome, even when we live fully in God; fully in the word of God. Gods Kingdome can not be here. Jesus Himself told us in Joh 14,2:
„In my Father’s house there are many dwelling places. If there were not,
would I have told you that I am going to prepare a place for you?“

The question is. When would it be best time for us to leave this world and enter in the by Jesus Christ so often named heaven?
Young?
How young?
Old?
How old?
Or if so, rather - in which state of superior wisdom?
**

Honestly… I would say for the person dying… the younger the better (in relation to their chances of being less guilty of sins)… if you die at 5 I would think there’s a real good chance you’re going to heaven… Now I say for the person dying this may be better, but for the loved ones left behind it is much, much harder.

It seems once people pass that age where their free will starts to affect their decision making and sin starts to become a real factor… well then I guess we can hope that God allows us enough time to make choices that will be beneficial to our spiritual well being… some people reach that understanding early into their life and others at the very end… It seems that God our Father through his love of all of us would wish to give everyone a final chance to submit to his will, and return the love he has shown for them…

So either we enter his kingdom at a very young age free from personal sin or we are given enough time to make a positive choice to accept the will of God and do our best to live out that will…

Just my random thoughts

SD

 

[Bruno_Schulz]

**

hope that God allows us enough time to make choices… It seems that God our Father… would wish to give everyone a final chance to submit to his will…

Some reach this sooner, some later, yes. But what, if people had been good and turn to the worse in higher age in spite of being given enough time to turn to God? What if they did not; instead held sinful life for more suitable to us? The way to hell sure is easier to take, than that way to heaven.

Would it be off reason allowing the thought, that when a child or young person in a more or less sinless state dies, that this person in any case would have been good for the rest of his life, and therefore was taken away from earth?

But then; why are devils who kill, damage children’s souls or bring otherwise grief and sorrow over others, not taken away as long as they where good?

Most likely we won’t ever find an answer, or rather: The answers are such manifold, that a thousand books couldn’t hold the disparity of responses.
In such cases it’s always easy to say: We simply won’t ever know.
Might even be that we mustn’t know.

A friend of mine said: It’s same thing as if we’d ask; “why are we born?”
Not really, for that question is easy: We are born to be and do good and therefore (if we have been good and did good) will be allowed into heaven (where we originally come from and belong to).
**

 

[wcknight]

I would hope I would live long enough to correct most if not all of my faults and learn to love God as I should. And I would hope that I would die before I ever offended the Almighty as to ever warrant punishment.

Ideally directly after a good confession or just before Christmas day would be ideal. Our Lady says more souls are released on Christmas than on any other day.

The army doctor (surgeon) who died on Christmas day probably went right to Heaven.

BTW I would love to see my grandchildren if I ever get any, before I go.

 

[bpbasilphx]

Aren’t there very many reasons to doubt that? For so many devils had been baptised. Take Hitler and Stalin for a start. They fought against Christendom, so they did not enter God’s Kingdom through baptism.

No reason to doubt it at all. They were brought into God’s kingdom through baptism, but willingly walked out of it.

 

[Michael_David]

Is there a difference between Heaven and The Kingdom of God?

The first is final while the second is spiritually here while human. In this sense, Christ was King in the Kingdom while on earth and also in Heaven… and the New Heaven and New Earth to come. The Apostles, Paul too, were ‘spiritually’ in the Kingdom through the Holy Spirit in the pursuit of their ‘mission’ for Christ and the Kingdom. In the Our Father we pray for ‘Thy Kingdom come, Thy Will be done’… so if, Thy Will is being done, Thy Kingdom has come (on earth as it is in Heaven).

So the best time for us to be taken is when we are doing Thy Will, there would hardly be any transition except seeing God fully in all His spender.

(Bruno, I can understand your wanting to understand these things, I do too. Like you, my son was half my age when God called him home, and He left me here to age more yet. Perhaps to get closer to God then either of us would or could of without this happening. And I have to believe it was God’s will that it happened since Christ has said “not one sparrow falls without the Father knowing, and we are worth more then a sparrow”…)

Shouldn’t we be living His will for us in the here-and-now (The Kingdom)… so we can be with Him for eternity (in Heaven)?

 

[po18guy]

The Lord alone knows the proper time and date. So, the message for us seems to be to live as if we expect His call at any moment. A tall order, certainly, but consider the reward which He has prepared for the faithful! This points to the proper upbringing of children in the faith, the constant building up of the faithful, and kindness to the aged. Since we often fail at these tasks, we have been given a fresh day to start anew.

 

[chewchoo]

the age when we accomplish our mission here on earth, what ever that may be. we are not on this earth to be in and of ourselves; we need to draw other people to God. God can use even the most evil actions to fulfill his plan. we are to do God’s will until our end, and we are to fight the temptations of evil as long as we are alive. sure, going home to heaven while we are “still good” does sound appealing to a certain extent, but we are also responsible for our neighbor. we may just be the seed that they need X years from now.

 

[Bruno_Schulz]

**

Since we often fail at these tasks, we have been given a fresh day to start anew.

That’s true and what we lack mostly, is kindness towards ANYONE we meet, as we are asked for in the second commandment (Love your neighbour).

Now - we often feel too shy to be friendly towards someone we had been gruffly to in the past. Silly of us to think “what will he think about me, when I all of a sudden greet him friendly - exchange some nice words - or even apologise”.

Let’s do so! It’s a further step towards the kingdom of God! Especially when we consider; it might be today that we see God**

 

[Bruno_Schulz]

**

Is there a difference between Heaven and The Kingdom of God?

Well – Jesus spoke of heaven meaning His Fathers Reich, and Jesus spoke of His Father Kingdom, meaning the same. Match Mat 5,34:
“Do not swear at all: either by HEAVEN, for it is God’s throne.
And in Mat 26,29: “I tell you, I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it anew with you in my Father’s kingdom.”

Like you, my son was half my age when God called him home, and He left me here to age more yet. Perhaps to get closer to God then either of us would or could of without this happening. And I have to believe it was God’s will that it happened

Much is NOT Gods will. Especially when things happen like sexual abuse of Children, making children soldiers, murder and so on.

When my son was murdered I definitely did not moan at God, as many implied, but I asked God to take Björn (just after his 26th birthday) upon His Kingdom, and Holy Mary to lead Björn to God.

Surely you didn’t accuse God either. No Christian ever will, even when we sometimes in Christian forums read: “I yelled at God” - which is so terribly dumb and hurts any Christian on clear mind severely.

Jesus said in Luke 17,1: “These things will come, but woe to that person through whom they come.”

Other bad things happen to us too, whithout being in Gods will; else Jesus had not healed. Or let’s remember the dead Girl, Jesus woke up.

But it’s alsways best advise to pray YOUR WILL BE DONE - for Gods will is our best way, as God is love.
**

 

[Michael_David]

**

Well – Jesus spoke of heaven meaning His Fathers Reich, and Jesus spoke of His Father Kingdom, meaning the same. Match Mat 5,34:
“Do not swear at all: either by HEAVEN, for it is God’s throne.
And in Mat 26,29: “I tell you, I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it anew with you in my Father’s kingdom.”

**

Perhaps Heaven and the Kingdom refer to all of it as well as some of it. Much in how we (try) to understand the Trinity… three Persons but one God.

**

When my son was murdered I definitely did not moan at God, as many implied, but I asked God to take Björn (just after his 26th birthday) upon His Kingdom, and Holy Mary to lead Björn to God.

Surely you didn’t accuse God either. No Christian ever will, even when we sometimes in Christian forums read: “I yelled at God” - which is so terribly dumb and hurts any Christian on clear mind severely.

Jesus said in Luke 17,1: “These things will come, but woe to that person through whom they come.”

Other bad things happen to us too, whithout being in Gods will; else Jesus had not healed. Or let’s remember the dead Girl, Jesus woke up.

But it’s alsways best advise to pray YOUR WILL BE DONE - for Gods will is our best way, as God is love.
**

Yes, a lot of what happens here is ‘mans’ will… and God does not interfere, although He knows it is going to happen and that it does. Satan could be involved as well, but it still boils down to the human doing it, one way or the other.

Interesting, Jeff was 26 also when God called his name. And yes, I did ask God some questions at that time (still do), and yes, I was fairly upset in the full throws of grief for a while, now it’s eased enough to be more civil… the only answer I got was that His Son was Crucified, and He knows how I feel. Whether it was God’s Will, or the way one’s life IS to play out, seems Salvation is the main thing on God’s Mind. Considering this life temporal and the next one eternal, I can see His point. It doesn’t make it any easier for us left behind though.

Whether it be God’s Will here on earth, with human free-will, it is God’s Will in His Kingdom (Heaven)… As such, I still believe that if/when doing His Will here on earth, it is like being in His Kingdom, perhaps subdued some because of our human character, but still in line with how our eternity (may/could) be.

Also, I believe God can pull good out of bad… like what I am now doing that I would of not been doing had this not happened. I’m sure you know exactly what I mean by this…

 

[wcknight]

Only God knows when our time is up, and I would hope He chooses a time when we are closest to Him, or at least a time when we are in the state of grace.

I was a lapsed Catholic for several years (roughly 10, I’m not even sure how long it was). I went to mass once or twice a year at most, and no confession for about the entire duration.

I didn’t lead a terrible life then but I certainly was not in the state of grace as recognized by the Church. My kids are all roughly going through the same phase now, ranging from barely deiest to hard core atheist.

IF I or my kids had died during our rebellious, out of grace stage, God could easily say, I don’t know you. You don’t acknowledge Me, I don’t recognize you either. By Christian/Catholic standards we would deserve eternal punishement.

I pray my kids live long enough to come back to the Church as I did. For now, they don’t believe the Church is what it claims to be and they don’t believe Christ is who He claims to be. For a time, I didn’t either. For me, I was given enough time to see the error of my ways. IF God forbids, anything happens in the near future, they may not be so lucky.

IF God had taken them a few year ago, they would have been in the state of grace. But for now, they are not. In the future they may or may not return to the Church. Other than not recognizing God or the Church they are good kids, they are law biding, charitable, socially upright folks.

Jesus, warns us that we don’t know the time or place, but some of us don’t listen too well. For our types, I pray the Lord picks the optimum time so we can be at our best when our time is up.

Like the song says, we “don’t believe in Heaven but we pray there ain’t no hell.”

 

[Bruno_Schulz]

I’m sure you know exactly what I mean by this…

** Of course I do! No question about that.
Terribly hard is it from time to time, when even near relatives do not understand surviving parents.

We e.g. can’t go to family feasts. Hardly anyone understands.

But I won’t go into details in a public forum, as it bores affected people. He who might, might write to me in that matter
MailAdress is
Krippenfiguren at t.online.de
at=@ I’d be glad to answer any mail.

wcknight:

By Christian/Catholic standards we would deserve eternal punishement.

Let’s not despair on a son or daughter who (temporarily) get off the right was of Jesus Christ. And Christian standards do not necessarily have to be Gods ways.
Many Saints have at some point of their life been far off Gods intention too, but finally found their way back on the right track.

Many parents are in anguish and panic, when their kids seem to take ways away from God. A big mistake would be, to importunity them with religiosity and to keep expostulating them about their way to live.

Such efforts will separate them from their parents even a lot more and lead them more yet into a disbelieve, they before might be didn’t really practice.

Going on in the former friendly way and silently pray for them without saying so, is more effective.
**

 

[Bruno_Schulz]

above I wrote:
Let’s not despair on a son or daughter who (temporarily) get off the right was of Jesus Christ

it must o course be:
Let’s not despair on a son or daughter who (temporarily) get off the right WAY of Jesus Christ

 

[wcknight]

Thanks for the advice. I find it hard not to let my disappointment show. They’ve been getting religious article and books for gifts lately. I certainly don’t want to chase them further away.

 

[po18guy]

Jesus told the parable of the prodigal son (Luke 15:10-32) for a valid reason. He knows the human heart to its depths. Note that, as sad as the parable was at its beginning and middle, it ended on a happy note - with the exception of the jealous older brother who never left. A Dominican priest who taught on this parable mentioned that the father running to greet his returning son was remarkable. Running was considered disgraceful for an older man, and was reserved for the young. So great was the father’s love, that he risked criticism even for running to meet his younger son. A reflection of God’s love if us. Indeed, the young man did not perish in a state of disgrace, but was allowed to return to the father, repent and seek forgiveness.

There is a lesson even in the older brother’s case, who had possession of everything that was the father’s all along. He objected to his father’s royal treatment of the returning younger son. This mirrors the resentment of the all-day vineyard workers who objected to those hired in the last hour receiving the same reward for their one hour of work (Matthew 20:1-16).

Thus, the Lord seems to allow the prodigals of this world time to regain their senses and return to Him. He alone knows the state of our heart at the moment of His call.

 

[Bruno_Schulz]

**

I find it hard not to let my disappointment show.

Oh, that happens to almost everyone of us with our kids, close relatives and often even our wife or husband.

It’s no use to edge somebody, for then we construct a kind of resistance.

Still, it’s hard to advice the right thing to do. Often it’s good to seek advice from friends who know the person, or from priests.

However, I don’t like to pronounce it, but too I often met priests who are ever so unworldly and as they aren’t married nor have children, often don’t know what we are talking about.

Our young priest, we know his parents for ages, and they too said, that their son is really and indeed terribly quixotic
Those priest say: Things are such and such, but more often than not, things are not at all such and such

We notice that also on people who never had children. I, when my son died and I was in a terrible mood and grieve, and someone married but without children asked me what’s wrong, answered, when told what had happened:
“Oh - I know - that’s terrible; my dog died and I really know how that feels” :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

We all know though, how it feels when a close and otherwise nice friend doesn’t believe in God – even more so when it’s son, daughter, wife/husband.
To give and live contagious example is a good way, but not with ostentation, but in homeopathic dosis and kind of incidentally.

Today I met a friend, and he asked me how my last operation. Well, great I said – DUE TO MY PRAYERS! And went on to talk about our dogs. That’s what I mean by “incidentally”

Suchlike dosed words, often work miracles **