At what age should opposite sex siblings stop

[Anglewannabe]

Ever since I can remember (so probably before 3), I never changed in front of anyone even other girls. I ALWAYS had my privacy and my mom praised me every time I asked for it. Once I was at a supper with some girls from another school that were use to changing in front of each other for gym. We had to change for a play we were putting on. It was at a golf club and we went into the change room. All the other girls started to change and I went into a shower and closed the curtain to change. Everyone laughed. I was about 8 or 9. A sixteen year old girl who was in charge of us, opened the curtain (without asking) told me to hurry up and just grabbed my shirt, tugged on the buttons and said in a fed up tone of voice ‘just get of here you are OK’

To this day, I still remember the anger at my boundaries being violated. She would not give me 1 minute to finish. I told my mom who obviously was upset and though this girl was wrong.

Sure I was laughed at for being a prude. But guess what, I am happy that is how my mom raised me. That is why I believe it has been extremely easy for me to stay pure. All my peers who though I was a prude were to embarrassed to say no to a date who wanted to ‘go up their shirt’. They were never taught it is OK to say no.

Was my upbringing extreme. Yes now as an adult I think it is not necessary to be such a puritan. However, if that is what it takes to save oneself for marriage, it is perhaps a good thing

Angie

 

[KendraDZ1902]

Was my upbringing extreme. Yes now as an adult I think it is not necessary to be such a puritan. However, if that is what it takes to save oneself for marriage, it is perhaps a good thing

Angie

I don’t think changing in front of peers has anything to do with saving yourself or not. I don’t think anyone should judge one way or the other. If someone doesn’t want to change in the locker room with everyone else, fine. If someone doesn’t have a problem with changing in front of people in the locker room, fine. It has nothing to do with the opposite sex or having sex.

 

[thewanderer]

Ever since I can remember (so probably before 3), I never changed in front of anyone even other girls. I ALWAYS had my privacy and my mom praised me every time I asked for it. Once I was at a supper with some girls from another school that were use to changing in front of each other for gym. We had to change for a play we were putting on. It was at a golf club and we went into the change room. All the other girls started to change and I went into a shower and closed the curtain to change. Everyone laughed. I was about 8 or 9. A sixteen year old girl who was in charge of us, opened the curtain (without asking) told me to hurry up and just grabbed my shirt, tugged on the buttons and said in a fed up tone of voice ‘just get of here you are OK’

To this day, I still remember the anger at my boundaries being violated. She would not give me 1 minute to finish. I told my mom who obviously was upset and though this girl was wrong.

Sure I was laughed at for being a prude. But guess what, I am happy that is how my mom raised me. That is why I believe it has been extremely easy for me to stay pure. All my peers who though I was a prude were to embarrassed to say no to a date who wanted to ‘go up their shirt’. They were never taught it is OK to say no.

Was my upbringing extreme. Yes now as an adult I think it is not necessary to be such a puritan. However, if that is what it takes to save oneself for marriage, it is perhaps a good thing

Angie

While I have no problem with parents raising their children as yours raised you, I did just want to point out that it is not true that such an upbringing is necessary for keeping ones kids chaste and pure. I was not raised that way and I turned out just fine. Trust me, that one factor was not the only difference between your upbringing and that of your friends.

 

[EasterJoy]

First off, a child should be encouraged to keep his or her own physical boundaries, so in that sense no child ought to be forced into any of this with anyone if they don’t want to (with the exception of those times when the whole family has to be shoved into the same space for sleeping and it cannot be helped). I would even include same-gender siblings in that. Tickling, especially, is something that a child ought to be able to forbid on his or her own authority from Day 1.

As for the age when they ought not be allowed to do it even if they want to, I’d avoid baths together pretty early on and avoid sleeping together at some time before they reached adolescence. As for changing together, it depends on whether you mean changing underwear and bathing suits or stripping down to the underwear to change pants and tops. A child who totally lacks inhibitions does need to be taught to have a certain sense of propriety even among those they are very comfortable with, and putting in boy-girl boundaries with siblings when it becomes appropriate to have them with their opposite-sex friends is not a bad idea. When a little girl’s best friend happens to be a boy, he’s like a brother to her, after all. On top of that, older siblings can have a bit too much persuasive power with younger ones, and so if the parent is not going to be there, there shouldn’t be room left for an older one to use intimidation or the manipulation typical between older and younger in order to indulge his or her curiosity. “Normal kid behavior” does not meant that no harm is ever done by it; an older sibling can do harm that was never intended.

It is pretty rare to see siblings kiss each other in an inappropriate way at any age. The saying that being a co-champion is like kissing your sister was not coined for nothing.

 

[EasterJoy]

While I have no problem with parents raising their children as yours raised you, I did just want to point out that it is not true that such an upbringing is necessary for keeping ones kids chaste and pure. I was not raised that way and I turned out just fine. Trust me, that one factor was not the only difference between your upbringing and that of your friends.

I don’t know if her mom was praising her with the goal of enforcing some particular external boundary. Her mother may have been praising her out of a desire to encourage her daughter to draw her own boundaries without feeling she ought to conform herself to others and with no apologies to anybody. That ability is very important for those who want to stay chaste.

 

[thewanderer]

I don’t know if her mom was praising her with the goal of enforcing some particular external boundary. Her mother may have been praising her out of a desire to encourage her daughter to draw her own boundaries without feeling she ought to conform herself to others and with no apologies to anybody. That ability is very important for those who want to stay chaste.

I never said anything bad about the way she was praised or what her mother was praising her for. I think the way she was raised is a perfectly fine and legitimate way to be raised, and of course the ability to draw your own boundaries is extremely important. I was just making sure it was clear that it is not necessary to be raised or instilled with such strict boundaries in order to learn how to draw your own boundaries and remain chaste.

 

[CradleJourney]

At what age should opposite sex siblings stop…

1. bathing together
2. sleeping on the same bed
3. sleeping on the same room
4. changing clothes together
5. play wrestling
6. tickling in public

in addition, hugging and kissing. i think there may not be inappropriate age for hugging and kissing for any kinds of siblings, but what kind of hug and kiss they can and can’t do when they are adults?

What do you think?

thanks,
gaby

What has worked for us - your mileage may vary

1. Never started. Mainly from a “work” standpoint - if I’d had twins or triplets, this might have been different but with a 2yr gap, easier to bathe separately or with same-sex.
2. Got an 8 and 10 yr old who still share sometimes. They shared a room up to this year and would often fall asleep on one or the other beds. Currently working on rearranging the house to give the girl her own room. Once new bedrooms established later this summer, I’ll probably put a stop to it - though they’ll most likely share a tent periodically on vacations.
3. See above. My actual limit is beginning of puberty. Privacy needed by then. They’d have been separated before this, by my preference but only so much room for 5 kids in 900’ ft. Thankfully shipped one off to college which is opening the bedroom situation.
4. Never started, however, the occasional bit of nudity here or there when someone forgets to take their clothes to the bathroom. Usually a towel covers everything just fine, but no one bats an eye if it happens to slip. (AKA - it’s not acceptable to show the parts covered by your bathing suit, but there’s nothing wrong with them either - oops happen, we remind them of the rules, life continues.)
5. Good luck stopping that - 20 somethings, teens, tweens, all ages, brothers and sisters - happens on a regular basis here - usually starts when someone swipes the other’s (seat, ball, drink, etc.)
6. Tickling stops when anyone voices annoyance rather than play - we all tickle a lot but a firm “enough” or “no” stops it - or a simple “MOM!” will cause me to interrupt the play.
7. Kissing - we always kiss on the cheek. All ages, both sexes, though the boys usually decided around age 6 they weren’t kissing their siblings anymore. The girls however still give a quick peck as a “hello” or “thank you” sometimes. Both sexes required to give Mom a kiss goodnight (again, on cheek), and I give out kisses on foreheads or cheeks.
   Cheek kisses started to prevent germ heavy preschoolers from “sharing” with new babies and elderly grandparents. Have found it to work well.
8. Hugs - always Hug. Wrap arms around shoulder or torso or leg and squeeze (various heights). Nothing wrong with hugs … imho they make life bearable sometimes. However, for some strange reason, some people do not appreciate hugs - therefore, must not hug if someone says no, or indicates they don’t want one. Hugs (both sexes) required here as part of apologies. These usually take about a 1/10th of a second

 

[EasterJoy]

I never said anything bad about the way she was praised or what her mother was praising her for. I think the way she was raised is a perfectly fine and legitimate way to be raised, and of course the ability to draw your own boundaries is extremely important. I was just making sure it was clear that it is not necessary to be raised or instilled with such strict boundaries in order to learn how to draw your own boundaries and remain chaste.

Sorry, I didn’t mean to say you were saying anything bad about the way she was raised, but rather clarifying what I thought she was saying. I was saying that I did not take her to mean that she was raised with strict boundaries. I took her to mean that she was raised to know that her defense of her own boundaries was praiseworthy–“my mom praised me every time I asked for it”–even though her personal boundaries were stricter than some others around her. There is no sense given that she was scolded into her boundaries, but rather that she was allowed to be more strict than necessary in order to honor her own personal sense of what she wanted.

Her friends were not wrong for being willing to change in the presence of other girls themselves. Her friends were wrong for violating her right to have her own boundaries and wrong for laughing at her for sticking up for herself. They had no right to do that, and no good was served by it. It would not hurt them to let her have her own way and to mind their own business about it.

While being willing to change in front of other girls is apropos of nothing, I think it would harm the other girls’ chances of staying chaste if they felt someone else had the right to tell them where their personal boundaries ought to be or if they felt they had to conform themselves to what others thought when it come to how much of themselves ought to be exposed. That social atmosphere is how both boys and girls get bullied into sexual activity that they don’t even want, and that is always very bad.

 

[thewanderer]

Sorry, I didn’t mean to say you were saying anything bad about the way she was raised, but rather clarifying what I thought she was saying. I was saying that I did not take her to mean that she was raised with strict boundaries. I took her to mean that she was raised to know that her defense of her own boundaries was praiseworthy–“my mom praised me every time I asked for it”–even though her personal boundaries were stricter than some others around her. There is no sense given that she was scolded into her boundaries, but rather that she was allowed to be more strict than necessary in order to honor her own personal sense of what she wanted.

Her friends were not wrong for being willing to change in the presence of other girls themselves. Her friends were wrong for violating her right to have her own boundaries and wrong for laughing at her for sticking up for herself. They had no right to do that, and no good was served by it. It would not hurt them to let her have her own way and to mind their own business about it.

While being willing to change in front of other girls is apropos of nothing, I think it would harm the other girls’ chances of staying chaste if they felt someone else had the right to tell them where their personal boundaries ought to be or if they felt they had to conform themselves to what others thought when it come to how much of themselves ought to be exposed. That social atmosphere is how both boys and girls get bullied into sexual activity that they don’t even want, and that is always very bad.

I guess we just read her post differently. I think it was especially this part that made me think the particular place for her boundaries were originally set by her parents

Was my upbringing extreme. Yes now as an adult I think it is not necessary to be such a puritan.

But who knows. At any rate I agree it is very important to be able and willing to set and enforce your own personal boundaries. That is very important. I just also wanted to make sure that no-one thought that it is necessary to refuse to ever allow anyone to see you change in order to remain pure and enforce your own boundaries.

Anyway, as for the OP, I’m really not sure for a lot of them, but I do have a memory of bathing with my younger brother, I think when I was about 10-11. There was nothing remotely sexual or inappropriate about it.

 

[EasterJoy]

…I just also wanted to make sure that no-one thought that it is necessary to refuse to ever allow anyone to see you change in order to remain pure and enforce your own boundaries.

Yes. It is also very important not to carry around a sense of shame, even about boundary violations you’ve allowed in the past that were objectively sinful. Poor decisions in your past don’t mean you don’t deserve to be treated with dignity. I don’t think that even a woman who is actively employed as a prostitute deserves to be insulted, as if that would “drive” her to purity. Purity comes from an appreciation of one’s special place as a temple of the Holy Spirit, not from being shamed or insulted into staying within boundaries.

I remember hearing a brother insult his younger sister’s looks–both were out of high school. I chided him, and said that he ought to be teaching her that she is beautiful and valuable and should not take insult from anybody, nor should he teach her to feel that it is her job to conform to what some guy thinks of her, even her brother. A woman’s father and brothers have a very special place in teaching her how men ought to treat her, and if they want other men to respect her, they had better take that seriously. He cares about his sister’s purity, and he actually agreed with me.

 

[TheWarriorMonk]

I only have daughters (11 and under) living with us.

However, I have noted some things. For children that are innocent (not exposed to anything overtly sexual, etc.), awareness of differences in sexes and that they should cover up seems to appear around the age of 8. At that age I would avoid having them in unsupervised situations for any period of time with someone of the other sex.

 

[Anglewannabe]

I don’t think changing in front of peers has anything to do with saving yourself or not. I don’t think anyone should judge one way or the other. If someone doesn’t want to change in the locker room with everyone else, fine. If someone doesn’t have a problem with changing in front of people in the locker room, fine. It has nothing to do with the opposite sex or having sex.

I agree that no one should judge either upbringings. However, in my case, I believe the fact that my ‘no’ was token seriously helped me a lot.

 

[Anglewannabe]

While I have no problem with parents raising their children as yours raised you, I did just want to point out that it is not true that such an upbringing is necessary for keeping ones kids chaste and pure. I was not raised that way and I turned out just fine. Trust me, that one factor was not the only difference between your upbringing and that of your friends.

Yes, I agree the are other ways to bring up a child that turns out good. However, in my circumstance it is the most noticeable differentiating factor between my upbringing and my friends. I am sure there are other differences I am not aware of

 

[gaby_101]

Thanks all for nice answers and opinions

When posted this thread, i knew i would get many various opinions. I want to hear other families’ experiences and opinions about how they deal with these things, because there are no basic rules or standards about this, and sometimes parents are confused.

Yes I agree that in most cases, the siblings will decide it by themselves, when they begin to feel uncomfortable.
But I see some families, opposite sex siblings sometimes unaware about these things until they are adults, let’s say around 20s or 30s for example, because it’s become innocent habits. while they don’t have any sexual intentions indeed, should parents do something about it if it happens? or just let them do what they want until unlimited age? will these things be inappropriate when they are clearly innocent about it?

 

[gaby_101]

Her friends were not wrong for being willing to change in the presence of other girls themselves. Her friends were wrong for violating her right to have her own boundaries and wrong for laughing at her for sticking up for herself. They had no right to do that, and no good was served by it. It would not hurt them to let her have her own way and to mind their own business about it.

While being willing to change in front of other girls is apropos of nothing, I think it would harm the other girls’ chances of staying chaste if they felt someone else had the right to tell them where their personal boundaries ought to be or if they felt they had to conform themselves to what others thought when it come to how much of themselves ought to be exposed. That social atmosphere is how both boys and girls get bullied into sexual activity that they don’t even want, and that is always very bad.

yes i agree with this. her boundaries are up to her. her friends should respect other people’s own boundaries and thoughts. differences are okay and respects needed

 

[on_the_hill]

Kind of tangential, but it relates to the age at which there’s a self-awareness of what’s appropriate.

My boy will be 8 later this month. I was always surprised how much of a hand-holder he is. Nearly every time we’re walking together he would reach up and hold my hand. Up until about six months ago. Now, he’ll reach for my hand, hold it, then twist away. Hold, twist. Like he’s instinctively separating.

Anyway, he still sometimes takes a bath with his 10 year old sister. They initiate it, they’re o.k. with it. In fact, they, along with my wife and 14 year old daughter, walk into the bathroom, bedrooms, etc. in various stages of undress and nakedness practically every night. I’m the only one who doesn’t if my 14 year old daughter is around.

But that gives me an easy way to clear her out of the bathroom if I want to go in and shower: I’ll yell, “If you’re not out of there in one minute, I’m coming in there to start my shower!”
“Dad! Don’t! I’ll hurry up!”
“Thirty seconds!”
“O.k.! Fine! I’m leaving!”

 

[CuriousInIL]

I had to share a light note that just popped into my brain when reading this. On some TV show, I don’t remember which, a woman said that she had ben taught 2 things at home: 1. a woman should never be seen nude except by her husband and her brothers and 2. all men are brothers,

 

[KendraDZ1902]

I only have daughters (11 and under) living with us.

However, I have noted some things. For children that are innocent (not exposed to anything overtly sexual, etc.), awareness of differences in sexes and that they should cover up seems to appear around the age of 8. At that age I would avoid having them in unsupervised situations for any period of time with someone of the other sex.

My brother and I were unsupervised after school everyday. Well, he was in 5th grade and I was in 6th, until we graduated. Nothing weird happened.

 

[Ophelia23]

My brother and I were unsupervised after school everyday. Well, he was in 5th grade and I was in 6th, until we graduated. Nothing weird happened.

Same. If there was a rule of never leaving the two genders together unsupervised, then my parents would have had to quite unnecessarily pay for a babysitter way more often. My brothers are older than me and I am the only girl. I don’t quite get why us being unsupervised would have been inappropriate. We’re siblings for crying out loud.

 

[EasterJoy]

Same. If there was a rule of never leaving the two genders together unsupervised, then my parents would have had to quite unnecessarily pay for a babysitter way more often. My brothers are older than me and I am the only girl. I don’t quite get why us being unsupervised would have been inappropriate. We’re siblings for crying out loud.

I would be concerned if one or more of the siblings seemed seriously unhappy with the situation, especially the younger siblings. It is not what is consensual that is the most likely serious issue, after all, but what one sibling bullies the other(s) into doing or tolerating. That isn’t to say that a group of siblings can’t get themselves into a lot of trouble or that the real possibility of an unplanned drop-in from a neighbor isn’t better than nothing, but that parents need to be aware of the harm that can be done if a bully (or worse) figures out how to con or intimidate others into carte blanche to do what they want. A parent who doesn’t want to think it possible is the easiest to con.