At what point do you let go and file for divorce?

[Lerin]

I believe now that I have held on so tightly to an unrealistic view of him because I feel RESPONSIBLE for his soul. He became Catholic for me… Obviously I failed in helping him grow in faith. I fear now that he is lost and I can’t bear the thought of him dying in such a state of sin…

A “God-given epiphany” during the quiet reflection of last evening has released me from this torture… I cannot take on all this responsibility… I must let God love, heal and guide my husband – and hopefully save him. I am not capable of doing this. I am too broken. I have to let go and let God… Am I on-base here? Is this the path to becoming a whole, living, breathing, feeling person again? I think so.

I read your original posting, and all of the replies… and these two paragraphs I could have written 7 years ago.

I married the boy (and I use that term intentionally) I “loved” since we were both 14, a year out of high school. No need to go through each painful detail, but rather than “the other woman” my ex-husband was cheating on me with an illegal drug habit that I discovered when my finances were already decimated, credit ruined, and had one tiny baby girl all at the age of 21. I suffered from his alcoholism for two years in our marriage and was trying to “help” him, raised in a dyscfunctional family himself, but finding illegal drugs in my house with my baby was what I needed to separate.

I converted to the Catholic faith less than a year before I found all of this out… my exhusband had no religious faith or belief in God, and was bewildered by my decision. However, I now know that God called me exactly when I needed HIM… because without the anchor of the Church, I could never have been able to bear all of the pain and devastation that was to come.

I was similarly still keeping up with his bills, paying his way, and hoping and praying he would come to Christ and be the man I always pretended he was.

This obviously did not happen, and six months after our separation and learning more and more sordid things I never wanted to know… I filed for divorce to protect myself and my baby girl, and to try to rebuild my life.

I talked to the priest who led me through RCIA, and he assured me that a CIVIL DIVORCE is not a sin in itself at all. What would be sinful is if I had been validly married in the Church and then chose to marry another.

At 21, I was already prepared to be single for the rest of my life. I had no desire or even imagined I COULD trust another man to invite him into my life. After all, if I could be so wrong about someone I had loved since I was a kid… how could I ever trust my gut again?

Although I thought I would never even date, much less marry, again… at 21, and knowing my story, my priest suggested that I go through the Tribunal and get an investigation into the validity of my marriage in the eyes of the Church. An annullment is not a “Catholic divorce” but instead, it is a VERY thorough investigation into the circumstances at the time of the marriage vows to determine whether a valid marriage was actually entered into at all. My case was granted on several grounds, and going through it was good for me spiritually… I got help and counselling for my “co-dependent” behavior, and attended Mass and Confession as often as I possibly could.

Being able to unite my sufferings with Christ, making all of that pain MEAN something, was exactly what got me through the process. I could not have done it, but by faith.

And the “short” version of my happily ever after… I ended up meeting a devoutly Catholic man and our friendship blossomed… and he married me in the Catholic church, taking on all of my debts and my painful past… and my ex-husband’s rights were terminated to my daughter, and my husband was able to adopt her. He is the only father she has ever known, and is a wonderful one. We are expecting our fourth baby this May.

Procuring a civil divorce is NOT a sin in this case… and anyone who says differently is just ignorant of both Church teaching and your situation. I am glad you are already finding peace. Remember that you are not responsible for your husband’s choices, he is an adult and is answerable for his choices alone. Keep praying for him, but do not place yourself in harm’s way. A civil divorce will protect you from further damage.

I’m gearing up for a response to Mark, and those who think as he does.

Bless you and your babies… and please send me a personal message if there are any additional details you want to know that could help you.

 

[Lerin]

Jesus says,

"Have you not read that the one who made them at the beginning "made them male and female,’ and said, “For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.” Mt 19:4-6.

We fail Jesus every day, yet He does not divorce us!

Mark, you cannot possibly have any idea what you are saying.

Jesus NEVER asked us to put ourselves or our children in harm’s way. Procuring a civil divorce is NOT a sin in this situation. She is not asking for a divorce because her husband has “failed” her, but to make sure she is legally protected from this man’s financial mistakes and emotional abuse.

Are you prepared to say that she is sinning by getting a civil divorce? That would be a very bold judgement, and as you know… Jesus ALSO says, "Stop judging, that you may not be judged. For as you judge, so will you be judged, and the measure with which you measure will be measured out to you."

By asking for divorce, this woman is not saying that her husband is a failure, unworthy of the love of Christ, or even that she is not going to forgive his sins against her. What she is saying is, I cannot allow myself or my children to be financially taken for a ride… and I am going to set boundaries that my husband respect me and my human dignity.

Civil divorces are neither here nor there in the eyes of God. If she was married validly in the Church, a civil divorce will not change that. If she was not, a civil divorce will not affect that either. A civil divorce is a legal matter only, and she has the right to protect herself and her children.

In fact, as a mother, it is her God-given responsibility to protect them… legitimately dependent on her… rather than to contribute to her husband’s reckless and irresponsible choices by protecting him from the consequences of his behavior. Who knows… a divorce could be what snaps him out of this childish and appalling behavior.

Peace to you, brother. I am just trying to help you understand where mothers like she and I are coming from, and that your ideas of divorce do not exactly follow the teachings of the Church.

 

[chevalier]

I think you are way past the point of it being in your family’s best interests to file for divorce. I am surprised you have not mentioned counseling with your priest. He is the first person who should be advising you.

First, your husband has broken his marriage vows, and Jesus himself gave fornication as a possible justification for divorce. He is seeing another woman, and that makes your marriage a sham, which is something your children will eventually pick up on.

Angels, the reasons where civil divorce may be tolerable is: “If civil divorce remains the only possible way of ensuring certain legal rights, the care of the children, or the protection of inheritance, it can be tolerated and does not constitute a moral offense.” (Catechism, 2383) It requires more than best interest. As for what Our Lord said, it was also that God put together man shall not put asunder. Adultery alone is reason enough for separation, but not for a civil divorce. Divorce is an if nothing else works legally kind of thing and it’s about protection, not supposed to be retaliation or punishment, or the relief of being able to call a marriage over according to the civil law. In the case of the Opening Poster, it may become apparent that divorce is justified or perhaps even necessary, but that’s because of how the situation harms her and the children and puts them in danger.

I understand that is how the Catholic church interprets it. Yes, it is important to clarify that adultery is not necessarily grounds for annulment.

Grounds never - proof of grounds, sometimes (simulation or other defects of consent).

However, even within the Catholic interpretation of Matthew 19:9, the act of sexual sin is considered severe enough to disolve a lawful bond. In that verse, the engagement of a Jewish couple.

The only thing you can really compare that to is the dissolution of a contracted but not consummated (ratum et non consummatum) marriage, which is similar to what the Hebrew engagement was - and in this case, the Pope would sever the bond, not the adultury itself. In case of a valid and consummated marriage, it is only severed by death, so you don’t end up unmarried but unable to marry as long as your spouse lives. Contrary, you’re still married.

As for the Hebrew marriage, divorce was in Moses’s Law because of the hardness of hearts, but wasn’t how it was intended in the beginning, which Our Lord restored.

I think that Matthew 19:9 supports the pursuit of a civil divorce in the case of a husband who is in a longterm affair and living outside the home.

It supports separation in case of adultery and there is an actual provision that it needs to be submitted to ecclesiastical authority after six months (Can. 1152 §3. If the innocent spouse has severed conjugal living voluntarily, the spouse is to introduce a cause for separation within six months to the competent ecclesiastical authority which, after having investigated all the circumstances, is to consider carefully whether the innocent spouse can be moved to forgive the fault and not to prolong the separation permanently). One’s own authority is limited to cases of imminent danger in delay, when one or the children are in danger (Can. 1153 §1. If either of the spouses causes grave mental or physical danger to the other spouse or to the offspring or otherwise renders common life too difficult, that spouse gives the other a legitimate cause for leaving, either by decree of the local ordinary or even on his or her own authority if there is danger in delay.).

 

[chevalier]

Some ambiguity may be caused by the fact that the word “divorce” doesn’t expressly mean either dissolution of marriage or separation. In moral theology, the word has been used to mean separation, but in civil law it’s primarily means of severing the legal bond. We are allowed separating, but we are not allowed severing. If civil separation covered everything, including inheritance, medical bills, expenses, liability for damages and so on, and the only difference between civil separation and civil divorce were that civil divorce pronounced the end of a legal marriage, then I believe it would never be proper for a Catholic. If you’d like to take a larger look at the subject, see the Catholic Encyclopedia here and here.

 

[chevalier]

Erm, sorry for a third post in a row but what I said in my first post about the unconsummated marriage and the Hebrew engagement could be taken in the wrong way because an unconsummated marriage is still valid and sacramental, although not indissoluble (by the Pope, not a private or civil authority) yet. This is just to clarify, because it has nothing to do with the topic at hand and the Opening Poster’s situation (sorry for this) - just don’t want to give rise to wrong ideas.

 

[Angels_Unaware]

Erm, sorry for a third post in a row but what I said in my first post about the unconsummated marriage and the Hebrew engagement could be taken in the wrong way because an unconsummated marriage is still valid and sacramental, although not indissoluble (by the Pope, not a private or civil authority) yet. This is just to clarify, because it has nothing to do with the topic at hand and the Opening Poster’s situation (sorry for this) - just don’t want to give rise to wrong ideas.

No, the topic at hand is whether or not a wife should do nothing while her husband abandons her and continues a long term adulterous affair he has no intention of ending.

I really do not get why you say, “divorce is not about punishment, it is permissable only if it is the only way to ensure the legal rights of the family”. What could possibly have led you to wrongly and prejudicially assume that I was advocating PUNISHMENT of her husband? That you make such an entirely inappropriate attribution is disturbing.

You are missing the point, which is that a civil divorce is not a sin, and is called for when a spouse leaves the family to take up with another person.

She is not free to re-marry. That would require an investigation by the tribunal. But she is absolutely free to divorce, not simply legally separate, and it borders on abuse to tell someone in her situation that she is not if she so wishes.

Matthew 19:9 is not a clear passage, but the Catholic church believes it refers to the engagement of a Jewish couple, which was contract that had to be legally disolved. Fornication prior to final marriage was grounds for divorce- the breaking of the engagement contract, due to the spouses’ unsuitability for marriage.

The metaphor is not intended to claim she has grounds for annulment, it is intended to support, in a round about way, her grounds for civil divorce. However, as you yourself pointed out in another post, she has grounds after 6 months to bring this to the Church.

She has not mentioned what the Church is advising her, and that is wrong. We should not be advising her in this very serious situation. Her Church should be.

 

[limerick]

This is not your failure.

Self-flagellation has its place, but then we must acknowledge that ray of hope that’s been beating on our windowpane and ride it to freedom.

This man has had it made for years and you have the power to pull the plug and rise above the drudgery of doing your part and his part in the relationship. I see him as dead wood, best cut away.

God will lead you to serenity. It’s not necessary to even consider “dating” or any of that business. The best place you can be is with yourself, in prayer and meditation, so the rest of your life can be offered up in gratitude. And you will feel gratitude. Your life can be as noisy or as quiet as you choose it to be, without the encumbrance of a selfish partner. You don’t even need to point fingers or plead your case (unless your attorney requires that you do so). No revenge necessary. Just move forward. Enjoy the gift of life as you believe God directs you to.

Limerick

 

[BMB]

She has not mentioned what the Church is advising her, and that is wrong. We should not be advising her in this very serious situation. Her Church should be.

In reply to this very fair point, I am a cradle Catholic, taught in Catholic schools and raised by devout parents who were married 54 years prior to my father’s passing last year.

I consider myself devout and grounded in the Faith. I made an appointment and had the first meeting with my Priest 2 days after the admission of the affair. He consoled me in my admittedly overwhelmed and overwrought state. A-humme’d and nodded his head alot, expressed disappointment in their “double-adultry” (husband’s girlfriend is Catholic and attended a neighboring Catholic church). I have visited with him 5 times since and gone to confession 3 times. Each time he is attentive but offers little guidance.

He reminds me to take care of myself so that I can be a good mother.

When concerned about making husband move out when he refused to stop his affair… my priest supported that I had every right to ask him to leave.

He suggested I get a formal decree of “separate support
and maintenance” to protect myself and children financially.

We recently touched on the subject of a civil divorce and he simply gave examples of how it “happens all the time” and is sometimes necessary. He suggested I simply ask my husband whether he wants a divorce or not. What?

Once my priest mentioned that I might want to consider reviewing our courtship for indications of earlier deceptions.

I have been a member of his congregation for 19 years, This priest knows me and my family. My children go to the parish school. He is very itelligent and empathetic but untraditional in some subtle ways. Not a hell/brimstone kinda guy. More… live and let God.

Do you see where I feel unsure and unsteady? Am I getting adequate spiritual counsel/support? Catholics are the rare minority where I live, There are no marriage help seminars/courses, divorce help and recovery groups at my parish.

I did not choose for my marriage to fail. Far from it. I am heartbroken. I DO believe I have tried everything I am capable of doing to “fix” it. I don’t want to be a bitter person, untrusting and mired in failure the rest of my life. But, quite honestly, I don’t know if I will ever feel un-bound to this man, divorce or not.

 

[Lerin]

But, quite honestly, I don’t know if I will ever feel un-bound to this man, divorce or not.

That’s because you WILL always be bound by children and common history.

I’m so sorry you’re struggling through this. At any age or stage, whatever the particular circumstances… it is quite a shocking experience to suddenly realize that you have been lied to for years by the person you are supposed to be able to trust with everything.

Praying for you, right now.

Peace!!!

 

[Angels_Unaware]

He suggested I simply ask my husband whether he wants a divorce or not. What?

Your priest is right. Why would find this to be an odd suggestion? You absolutely should ask him if he wants a divorce, and give him one if he does.

Once my priest mentioned that I might want to consider reviewing our courtship for indications of earlier deceptions.

Good idea.

Do you see where I feel unsure and unsteady?

Not at all.

Am I getting adequate spiritual counsel/support?

Yes, you are, but you can ask for more in depth counsel from someone else.

But, quite honestly, I don’t know if I will ever feel un-bound to this man, divorce or not.

That isn’t the purpose of a civil divorce or an annulment. History cannot change. People get divorces in situations like these for the same reason they plug broken pipes spewing raw sewage in their bathrooms. Or, the same reason why they take dogs to the vet to be put down. Or, the same reason they amputate gangrenous toes.

 

[Liberanosamalo]

You have to cut the priest a little slack. It’s horrible to be the person people come to with this kind of problem. You feel for the person suffering. But a Catholic priest can’t quite be the first person to suggest you get divorced. The Catholic Church believes marriage vows are sacred. IF there is any chance that it can be preserved, that is the first option.

It takes a while to discern whether this is hopeless or not. From what you say, it does sound pretty hopeless.

But it’s counterintuitive for a priest to be advocating something the Church is against.

He is correct. Start thinking back to see how long such deception in any matters was part of the relationship, the dating, the courtship, the engagement…

 

[BMB]

Lerin -

it is quite a shocking experience to suddenly realize that you have been lied to for years by the person you are supposed to be able to trust with everything.

Exactly… you and many others here truly understand my heartbreak… I have loved this man since I was 16 and he was 17. It does help to know that life can be good again. Thank you for your prayers.

I noticed in your reply to Mark you used the term “emotional abuse.” My counselor threw that term out in a session the other week and I was shocked. What, Me? I never saw him as quote “abusive.” I never considered myself one who would tolerate abuse.

I dismissed it then but have since come to see the myriad of ways he undermined my self worth. 4 years of blowing me off and leaving me to be the sole parent so he could meet and romance his girlfriend is rather abusive. And to think, I felt guilty for being resentful.

I am humiliated that he took so much from me for so long, yet I pray for him and always will.

Thank you for your offer to speak privately, I would really like to hear more of your survival story.

 

[TigerKitty]

BMB -

So very sorry to hear your situation. Spending time in the military hurts many marriages (as evidence of my friends and also on this site).

It is a tough situation and I wish you the strength, the STRENGTH, to endure this - and that you will be OK with whatever decision you make. God bless you and your children.

• TK

 

[Lerin]

But it’s counterintuitive for a priest to be advocating something the Church is against.

IS the Church against a civil divorce in these circumstances?

If the marriage was valid, a civil divorce does nothing to take away the “spiritual” bond of marriage. Once married in the eyes of God, we are married for life.

I am a convert, so maybe I have different experiences… but, isn’t a civil divorce merely a legal matter?

And in this case, and in similar ones, isn’t getting a civil divorce a prudent decision? Protecting yourself and your children from further harm seems to be the priority over keeping a civil marriage.

The priest is probably asking you to start a soul-searching over his behavior during the courtship to ask yourself whether it is possible that it was never a valid marriage, since both parties have to be able to give valid consent.

 

[BMB]

Why would find this to be an odd suggestion? You absolutely should ask him if he wants a divorce, and give him one if he does.

I found it odd because in a series of counseling I laid out very clearly the situation. My husband had been lying to me and having and affair with a co-worker for 4 years. Again, lying to me for 4 years… with someone he fantasized about, slept with and worked with daily. Yet he came home and pretended to be a husband for 4 years… daily. Seemed to me that his answer would be self-serving either way he chose.

From my many prior posts i suppose by now you know I am a glutton for punishment… so…

I asked if he wanted a divorce early in this process. He said yes but has done nothing to pursue one. Never has hired a lawyer. I have had to initiate every legal aspect of the separation.

I asked again anyway… 2 weeks ago… I asked if he thought there was any hope for our marriage. He said no. He showed sufficient remorse though. Seriously, I don’t think he likes hurting me… I just make it so easy for him.

 

[limerick]

“He suggested I simply ask my husband whether he wants a divorce or not. What?”

Do you want a divorce?

Limerick

 

[Angels_Unaware]

Why would find this to be an odd suggestion? You absolutely should ask him if he wants a divorce, and give him one if he does.

I found it odd because in a series of counseling I laid out very clearly the situation. My husband had been lying to me and having and affair with a co-worker for 4 years. Again, lying to me for 4 years… with someone he fantasized about, slept with and worked with daily. Yet he came home and pretended to be a husband for 4 years… daily. Seemed to me that his answer would be self-serving either way he chose.

Why should you care whether his answer is self-serving or not? A divorce is about emotional, physical and financial self-protection.

From my many prior posts i suppose by now you know I am a glutton for punishment… so…

I asked if he wanted a divorce early in this process. He said yes but has done nothing to pursue one. Never has hired a lawyer. I have had to initiate every legal aspect of the separation.

I asked again anyway… 2 weeks ago… I asked if he thought there was any hope for our marriage. He said no. He showed sufficient remorse though. Seriously, I don’t think he likes hurting me… I just make it so easy for him.

It seems you’re very focused on his inner experiences instead of on his actions.

When someone wants a divorce, you are best to give it to them. If you don’t, you are in a very psychologically manipulative situation, from both sides. Just more sewage that needs to be stopped up.

 

[BMB]

• It seems you’re very focused on his inner experiences instead of on his actions. When someone wants a divorce, you are best to give it to them. If you don’t, you are in a very psychologically manipulative situation, from both sides.*

I don’t understand what you are saying here, but i WANT to. What do you mean focused on his “inner experience?”

If I look only to his actions could I really see him as a person worthy of being a father to his kids, a person that is flawed but worthy of love. Wouldn’t I be a sinful and bitter person if I only saw him through his actions and neglected the reasons he may be the way he is?

Am I being “psychologically manipulative” by holding onto hope too long? I am not being sarcastic or flippant. I REALLY want to know. Am i causing more pain to myelf. Hmm… a new perspective.

I just WANT to have peace and know that I am not adding sin to sin.

 

[BMB]

“He suggested I simply ask my husband whether he wants a divorce or not. What?”

Do you want a divorce?

Limerick

Up until a week ago I could unequivicably shout NO!

This past week of searching my heart and realistic expectations for my children and life have caused me to question my sanity in this.

I have done all the wringing of hands and gnashing of teeth and counseling and fervent prayer. He has not moved one step away from his adulterous situation. I make room for him, refusing to deny his children a Father. He does not acknowledge my boundaries.

To continue hoping for a miracle now seems clearly unhealthy for me and the kids.

I have made the decision to go to my Priest asap to discuss a few very important questions.

1. Is a civil divorce in my situation a sin?
2. What is the process of having my situation considered by the Tribunal?
3. What other options/ suggestions can the church offer me.

I will contact my attorney with questions this week:

1. What is the legal difference between the legal “order of seperate maintenance and support decree” I already have and a civil divorce.
2. Am I already financially protected with this decree?

1 point that makes me cringe is that a civil divorce will allow him to “publicly” display his girlfriend and introduce her to the kids. Perhaps even marry her… not a situation I’m excited about putting my kids in.

Thoughts?

 

[chevalier]

@BMB: In the light of the facts that you give, if it were my situation, I would consider filing a nullity charge with the diocesan tribunal. It’s possible that your husband never intended marriage or did not understand what marriage was about. Since your local tribunals - and I’m presuming you live somewhere in the United States - in most cases require a civil divorce decree before they commence a nullity investigation, it wouldn’t be a sin to get a divorce if you wanted to pursue the nullity claim. And marrying again is not the only reason to file for a nullity declaration.

Other than the nullity proceedings (I am avoiding the term “annulment” because it implies that the Church retroactively voids the marriage, which she has no power to do in case of a consummated sacramental marriage), if I were you, I would ask myself if I wanted to protect myself and/or the children and make the civil law reality reflect the canon law separation… or if I wanted to call the marriage a failure, call it over and start thinking about myself as a single person, merely prohibited from marrying again as long as the spouse lived. In the former case, I would have peace in my conscience (although I would first check if civil separation really wouldn’t be enough). In the latter case, I would be worried. This is because separated spouses are still married, so I would feel I had no business making my state recognise what my Church did not, i.e. the end of marriage. If you do not want to create any impression of the marriage being over, but you simply want to stop living with your husband and stop being responsible for his debts, stop being exposed to any danger he might cause and so on, then you are most probably fine. However, I am not competent to give you this kind of advice, but you should get your advice from the priest and the canon lawyers.

1. What is the legal difference between the legal “order of seperate maintenance and support decree” I already have and a civil divorce.

The principal difference is that in case of divorce, the marriage is considered over and remarriage is allowed. There may be other differences, but they will differ from state to state. I suggest you look up your state’s divorce statutes, which are likely to include separation, and separation statutes if there are separate ones.

1. Am I already financially protected with this decree?

Others have pointed out that you may be liable to medical bills, liable for accidents and so on, whereas after divorce you would not be. I cannot confirm because I don’t know what state you are from and I’m not an expert in United States law. Once again, protection is a perfectly legitimate motive. It was looking for a divorce for the ability to call it over that I was speaking against. Please don’t take my advice the wrong way.

1 point that makes me cringe is that a civil divorce will allow him to “publicly” display his girlfriend and introduce her to the kids. Perhaps even marry her… not a situation I’m excited about putting my kids in.

You will most likely not be able to hold off a divorce idefinitely. The innocent spouse can in some jurisdictions deny the guilty one divorce for some time, but not for too long. The most liberal jurisdictions allow the guilty spouse to get a divorce despite your opposition. The most conservative used to prevent a guilty spouse from suing for divorce at all, which is probably not the case any more anywhere in the US, although you never know. There are over 50 states, after all.