At what point does the door to conception get closed?

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SteelArchangel

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Long.story.short.

My wife is 36, and has a very aggressive form of PCOS (polycystic ovarian syndrome). She is also believed to have endometriosis, however that cannot be diagnosed unless she has surgery, which for reasons is expensive and untimely.

Her new OBGYN wants her to take progesterone. I do not know much about progesterone but I was under the impression this is a form of birth control.

When we embrace one another, we are open to life. My wife has confided in me that she doesn’t want to be a laboratory experiment (Pope Paul VI Institute aside). She is terrified on so many levels about this and it’s a great cross to bear.

However, my wife is adopted. She had long confided in me that she always hoped to adopt one day because she was and she was given a great chance in life with it.
I told her I am with her on it, but my dilemma is…at what point morally is it acceptable to not pursue ways of conception?
 
SteelArchangel said:
Long.story.short.

My wife is 36, and has a very aggressive form of PCOS (polycystic ovarian syndrome). She is also believed to have endometriosis, however that cannot be diagnosed unless she has surgery, which for reasons is expensive and untimely.

Her new OBGYN wants her to take progesterone. I do not know much about progesterone but I was under the impression this is a form of birth control.

When we embrace one another, we are open to life. My wife has confided in me that she doesn’t want to be a laboratory experiment (Pope Paul VI Institute aside). She is terrified on so many levels about this and it’s a great cross to bear.

However, my wife is adopted. She had long confided in me that she always hoped to adopt one day because she was and she was given a great chance in life with it.
I told her I am with her on it, but my dilemma is…at what point morally is it acceptable to not pursue ways of conception?
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St. Pope Pius XII:
Serious motives, such as those which not rarely arise from medical, eugenic, economic and social so-called “indications,” may exempt husband and wife from the obligatory, positive debt for a long period or even for the entire period of matrimonial life. From this it follows that the observance of the natural sterile periods may be lawful, from the moral viewpoint: and it is lawful in the conditions mentioned. If, however, according to a reasonable and equitable judgment, there are no such grave reasons either personal or deriving from exterior circumstances, the will to avoid the fecundity of their union, while continuing to satisfy to tile full their sensuality, can only be the result of a false appreciation of life and of motives foreign to sound ethical principles.
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I’m confused.

My dilemma is at what point have I collected enough infertility-evidence to say…“we need to stop pursuing conception…and begin adoption process?”
 
I’m not sure I’m following your question.

You can adopt at ANY time. You don’t have to be infertile to adopt.

Your wife does NOT have to pursue extraordinary methods to have a child, if that’s what you are asking. You can just simply leave it in God’s hands.

I suggest you contact the National Catholic Bioethics Center and feel free to ask them your questions. Their head ethicist is a devout Catholic Priest and I’m sure they will help you.

https://www.ncbcenter.org/consultation/submit-request/

God bless!
 
I’m confused about exactly what you are asking…

Pursue adoption when you feel you are ready to adopt. Are you asking how long you should delay adopting to be sure you are unable to conceive? Would you have a problem if, after adopting, you did conceive?

Also, is the progesterone going to be used to treat her conditions? I think there are answers to your questions but they need to be stated a bit clearer. Thanks!
 
SteelArchangel said:
Her new OBGYN wants her to take progesterone. I do not know much about progesterone but I was under the impression this is a form of birth control.
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Progesterone is a female hormone. It isn’t “birth control” per se. Oral contraceptive pills contains several hormones, including progesterone.

A woman man take a medication even if it has the unintended consequence of temporary or permanent sterility.

There is no problem with her taking this if the doctor thinks it is the best course of treatment.
SteelArchangel said:
at what point morally is it acceptable to not pursue ways of conception?
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You are never under any obligation to “pursue ways of conception”.
 
We are never required to undertake extraordinary means.
 
SteelArchangel said:
My dilemma is at what point have I collected enough infertility-evidence to say…“we need to stop pursuing conception…and begin adoption process?”
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You are never under an obligation to “pursue” conception, especially infertility treatment.

You are always able to adopt- it is an act of charity. Adoption and pursuing conception aren’t mutually exclusive.

People with kids adopt, people without kids adopt, single people adopt. Adoption is not an avenue you can only pursue if you’ve exhausted all efforts to conceive.
 
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I’m 37. I have been married for 13 years and diagnosed infertile for 12.

I still cannot say we have closed the door to conception. We have long moved on from dreaming of having children (for various reasons adoption was not an option for us), we have long given up trying to maximise chances and observing my cycles (which have vanished into thin air anyways, except for the odd one out of the blue), but we still put this ultimately in the hands of God and stay open to life.

Maybe your question is : when do you decide you are done putting in specific efforts to conceive ? In this case, I would say : when you (as a couple) are ready to let go. For us, it was when it was all becoming just too painful, when hoping for a pregnancy month after month was beginning to drive us crazy. Nobody but you two can decide where that point is for you.
 
Thank you for your kind reply, and my heart goes out to you.

Yes, deciding when we are done putting in specific efforts to conceive is the question. I’ve been struggling though on where to draw the line.
 
SteelArchangel said:
Thank you for your kind reply, and my heart goes out to you.

Yes, deciding when we are done putting in specific efforts to conceive is the question. I’ve been struggling though on where to draw the line.
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it is still not clear what you are asking.
What are “specific efforts to conceive”?
Having sexual relations is the specific human act aimed at conception. What else could there be? Are you referring to advanced technologies or things the Church wouldn’t morally approve?

Does one of you want to cease relations?
Are you under the (erroneous) impression that can’t have relations if you can’t conceive?
 
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Thank you !
SteelArchangel said:
Yes, deciding when we are done putting in specific efforts to conceive is the question. I’ve been struggling though on where to draw the line.
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In that case, I’m not sure there is a moral issue as long as you don’t contracept or decide to avoid fertile times in the long term. In my experience, there is, however, a limit on how much disappointed hopes one can take, and a point at which a couple needs to move on, put a hypothetical pregnancy in the hands of God, and dream new dreams together. Only you can know if you are ready to try a bit longer, or if it is all becoming too painful altogether.

You are in my prayers.
goout said:
What are “specific efforts to conceive”?
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If I understood the OP right, it is trying to maximise one’s chances of conceiving by various means, like observing the cycle and having intercourse on purpose at fertile times.
 
Not quite what I’m asking

CCC 2379 says: Spouses who still suffer from infertility after exhausting legitimate medical procedures should unite themselves with the Lord’s Cross, the source of all spiritual fecundity.

In the Church’s eyes…what constitutes “exhausting”? I don’t want Christ to tell me after I’m gone that I’m denied Heaven because we did not exhaust legitimate medical procedures. That’s what I’m getting at.
 
No.

At what point to we stop going to doctor visits and taking fertility drugs 24/7/365, asking ourselves, “Have we tried hard enough to conceive?” And then consider adoption.
 
SteelArchangel said:
Not quite what I’m asking
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Do you really think that He is keeping score by tracking how many treatments you went through? And that x = Hell and x+1 = Heaven? Or “You didn’t try that new treatment that came out on August 22d 2019, so you are doomed”?

It seems to me that this is a matter of prudential judgement. If you are really worried about it your priest is the one to ask, not us random strangers.
 
SteelArchangel said:
No.

At what point to we stop going to doctor visits and taking fertility drugs 24/7/365, asking ourselves, “Have we tried hard enough to conceive?” And then consider adoption.
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You are not morally bound to take extraordinary measures to conceive!
 
Got you.

I think (just as a girl who tried to resolve these issues for herself, not as an expert in anything) part of it is objective, like asking yourselves “is there another morally permissible option we could try”, and part of it is subjective.

You have duties to yourself, to your mental and physical health as well as your wife’s, to your marriage, which need to be taken into consideration too.

When trying to conceive begins to make someone depressed and unhappy, becomes destructive to a couple’s relationship, and/or detrimental to one’s physical health, I think it is pushing it too far and a line needs to be drawn.

But that line will never be at the exact same place for different couples. Some may reach it much sooner than others (that’s the subjective bit).
SteelArchangel said:
At what point to we stop going to doctor visits and taking fertility drugs 24/7/365, asking ourselves, “Have we tried hard enough to conceive?”
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Reading that, I suspect you have reached the limit. You sound tired. My heart goes out to you too.
 
SteelArchangel said:
At what point to we stop going to doctor visits and taking fertility drugs 24/7/365, asking ourselves, “Have we tried hard enough to conceive?” And then consider adoption.
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Whenever you want to. That passage of the Catechism (2379) does not require any certain medical procedures but is, in my own reading of it, saying that once legitimate options have been attempted, then that’s it. Accept infertility as a participation in the Lord’s cross and don’t do anything illegitimate (IVF, surrogacy, what have you).

Dan
 
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You never have to take a single dose of fertility drugs, nor visit one infertility specialist. We are never required to go to extraordinary measures.
 
OP, how did you come upon the idea that you are required to take extraordinary measures to conceive a child?
 
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