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Gump
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I am concerned about prayer, but that isn’t my only argument. As far as I’ve heard you’re ignoring my points about prayer and stalling.
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Bennie_P
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I can see that Hobble is earnestly searching and I’m just posing questions that will, I hope, get Hobble to ask the right questions in which the answers can only come from God and not from someone like me that is in reality very dogmatic about my Catholic Faith. I just don’t want my dogmatism get in the way of the answers to the questions. And you are right IMHO, every sin does harm to others and the community in general, not only to the one committing the sin…
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Bennie_P
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Source of your assumption please?
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Bennie_P
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Do you talk to those you know about this subject? Many avoid it for fear that if they think on it too much they might become some Jesus freak or something. and if that happpens then all that self-centerness might have to go, or others may think them wierd, crazy, etc…think about it. There are more closet Christians out there then you may think.
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Bennie_P
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Christianity isn’t magic. Magic is for those that think they can control others by manipulation, that is how pagans get side tracked. God gave mankind a free will choice between doing right or wrong. So it is your choice, not mine on what you believe or refuse to believe, to do good or to do evil. It is all up to you. I don’t believe in God because others believe in God, I believe for I have seen what He has done in my own life. I recognize He is real and it is not because I was told He was real, I believe because I know He is real and some day you will too.
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Hobble
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Most people I know will talk of Jesus as a comedic character. Religion really isn’t taken seriously by most people around here. Even the few I know of that are religious, still aren’t very devoted.Do you talk to those you know about this subject? Many avoid it for fear that if they think on it too much they might become some Jesus freak or something. and if that happpens then all that self-centerness might have to go, or others may think them wierd, crazy, etc…think about it. There are more closet Christians out there then you may think.
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Bennie_P
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Humor many times is used to cover up fear and self-doubt. When people make jokes about things and subjects they don’t understand or fear, they are showing thier own ignorance and inadequencies - consider the roots of ethnic humor.
As to the level or measure of devoutness, well that is up to God to judge…
Christianity isn’t for the perfect, but for sinners seeking Holiness and a realtionship with God.
God bless you…
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peary
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What’s that old saying? For those who don’t believe, no explanation is possible. For those who do believe, no explanation is necessary. 
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Hobble
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No, I don’t think you understand. There must be a cultural difference from USA to Canada. Here, no one fears religion. Not in the slightest. I hate to break it to you, but it has little bearing on anyone’s life.Humor many times is used to cover up fear and self-doubt. When people make jokes about things and subjects they don’t understand or fear, they are showing thier own ignorance or fear. - consider the roots of ethnic humor.
There’s no real ruling religion here. There’s a street near here that has 4 churches on it, all on the same block, a catholic church, a jewish one, a christian one, and a serbian something or other church. But I’ve never really seen many people at any of them.
The closest thing to fear of religion, is that USA is so close to us, and religion is so serious and controlling there that it’s concerning. USA here is a source of either comedy or anger. Comedy because of your president, and the ridiculously foolish things he says and does. and anger because of your president, and the ridiculously foolish things he says and does. Although we are concerned that our current Prime Minister seems to be such a puppet of the US.
I’ve been to the states several times though, and I know there’s good people there, and they’re not much different. But to most in Canada the USA is stereotyped frequently.
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Bennie_P
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Well we have been building a roadway from Mexico directly to Canada and I hear the president has promise citizenship to the illegals, which he has been supplying arms to (that’s a state secret so don’t tell anyone, oh, they, the illegals, are mostly Catholic and it has been said that he might cross the Tiber too), But back to the subject, citizenship now to all illegals if they capture your oil fields and kill off all those pesty polar bears. So if I was you’all(that is Texas talk for all of you) I would be scared too…
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Hobble
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Exactly. It’s dangerous when one of the most powerful countries will ignore drastic environmental problems, because they can get oil out of it. Or start wars, for oil. It’s depressing.Well we have been building a roadway from Mexico directly to Canada and I hear the president has promise citizenship to the illegals, which he has been supplying arms to (that’s a state secret so don’t tell anyone, oh, they, the illegals, are mostly Catholic and it has been said that he might cross the Tiber too), But back to the subject, citizenship now to all illegals if they capture your oil fields and kill off all those pesty polar bears. So if I was you’all(that is Texas talk for all of you) I would be scared too…
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Techno2000
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Did you ever stop and think maybe God set up the world as it is now, to see who is going to have Faith and who is not, it is all just a test of Faith.Some win and
some lose in this Test.
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Veronica7978
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Your questions have been answered ad nauseum by others here in this forum. Those people are well versed in scripture, I’m not. I just love God. The fact that I refuse to comment on the absurd isn’t stalling, it’s me deflecting your attempts to get a rile out of some catholics by saying things you perceive as blasphemous and irreverent enough to evoke havoc. Since I saw your answers were there, in black and white, I didn’t answer, except to say you need to “see” as well as “look” - remember?
Anyway, the benefit of being religious, that you fail to get, at this time, is this feeling that only serving God brings. It’s a feeling that Christians throughout the ages have lived and died for, they give up everything for. (Don’t impose your all or nothing standards here - Christians are people, we sin, we fall, but we stand again.)
The answer to prayer is always there, just as promised. We pray for God’s will, just as Jesus prayed. Jesus requested the cup pass him if it were the Father’s will. The suffering of Jesus, his mother (who accepted her task as well at God’s will) were not easy things for them as they were human. As I said, I’m no apologist, which is why I don’t answer these types of questions, but I’ll just do my best here from what I know is true…when we pray, we pray for the will of God, not our own - why should we when God is all good, he knows what is good and right and he loves us - and you.
So - though I’ve seen hardships that you couldn’t imagine, and I’ve wanted my way. When I got to the end, I looked back and saw the good that God was bringing me, through my suffering, closer to him - something that you cannot understand in your current frame of mind. There is merit in suffering. I don’t know the exact quote but it’s something like this: The wheat must fall to the ground in order to promulgate.
Try to deny yourself for another. There is nothing you can buy with money that makes you feel as wonderful. Just try it. Pray & suffer for a day, read the life of one saint (St. Therese will help you if you need to learn about self denial). Now, you will come back with talk of starving children, and believe me, they are never far from the Catholic mind as our religion is based on sacrifice for the poor. The entire Lenten season is about giving up food and giving it to the poor. And as I posted earlier, we give hundreds of millions to feed those all around the world. I think it’s important that you ask yourself how many atheist agencies give as much. And my question that you are stalling on…what outcome do you want from your pointing out our supposed failings? Do you want us to stop giving as much to the poor? And yes, there would be a tremendous decrease in the charitable dollars if people no longer had faith and hope - to deny that fact is delusional. So the outcome you are trying to achieve is?
Regarding the divorce rates etc…since you are expecting comments from me blah blah blah…I would ask you what other variables are involved in those stats? For example, did you know that rape increases with the sales of ice cream? It’s true. Cases of rape increase with ice cream sales. Do you think that ice cream causes rape? No, there are other variables involved. Summer months, open windows, unlocked doors, later hours out, etc., So, the bottom line here is that your numbers are bunk Gump - I don’t know who did the study, and in todays world, studies show something one day and another thing the next based on the agenda of who’s paying. In 2005 there was a huge study that said prayer works with regards to medical healing…should we go with that study or the 2007 study? In 2009 if there’s a study that again changes the opinion on prayer, will you change yours? haha!
Alrighty then,
Nighty night.
P.S. I’m on summer vacation, I don’t want to work so much. Gosh!
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Gump
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Since you seem so hellbent on stalling (never understanding that Prayer DOES NOT WORK), I ask you: Do you believe in the Bible, and all that is written within it?
timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article571206.ece
The hypocrisy here in unbearable. You assumed that I made an assumption. Great job.
timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article571206.ece
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peary
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**Well, at least Dr. Laura has never been THIS boring!
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COLOS
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Sufferring and death are a real part of this life. It is the way things are. You will suffer and die soon enough as well, and so will I. God provided a way for suffering and death to not be meaningless. As shown on the cross, one of the greatest powers in human life is redemptive suffering. This is alien to you.
In this modern world, suffering is equated with sin. Suffering is the sin of the atheist religion, where you are your own god and should act to prevent any personal discomfort while you live. It is the worst that can befall an active consumer.
The ultimate goal in this life is the purification of the heart through Grace. No Saint that I know of had any interest in prolonging his/her life beyond the time that was set for them, and many Saints suffered very much prior to dying.
A very interesting book, Last Words of Sinners and Saints. Here is a Catholic collection: Last Words: Final Thoughts of Catholic Saints and Sinners. Funny thing about many of those famous last words from athiests…
There is a very real difference in how Christians die and how atheists die. In my job I get to see it first hand. You are more than welcome to your beliefs. I’d rather die at peace with God.
Hell is real. There is a debt to be paid based on how you live. Justice is frequently not served in this life. God help us.
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Gump
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A God that requires your believing (and chooses not to prove himself to you) must be very insecure. Why can we not be believers when we see proof of this God?
If him not intervening truly is part of his ‘will’ why does he damn those who choose simply not to believe in him without proof? This all-knowing, pure and gracious God seems to be very emotionally instable as well as malevolent.
If him not intervening truly is part of his ‘will’ why does he damn those who choose simply not to believe in him without proof? This all-knowing, pure and gracious God seems to be very emotionally instable as well as malevolent.
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COLOS
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And you would want your absolute right to the free excercise of your will rendered null and void? If He showed Himself to you, you would have no choice, now would you? You really want that, do you?
You build your own hell on this earth. According to the Church, you are the architect of your own future. Blame whoever you wish.
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Gump
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If this God showed himself to me personally (and preferrably with other witnesses) I would willingly give up my own free will. Such a God would be able to take it if he needed it be. I’m not close-minded, if there is reasoning to believe, I will believe. If we discover an alien life force with Religions exactly matching one of ours, I would believe on the spot.
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COLOS
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Why on earth would you want to give up your free will against your will? You are willing to give up your free will against your will? Seriously? After all, it isn’t in your will to see God, is it?
Who would want a God that just took what He wanted without regard to the free will He bestowed on His image and likeness? Who would want a God that forces Himself on people who don’t want to search for Him? That is the kind of God you would willingly worship? Well, not willingly, obviously. He would force you to worship him. Your concept of God is merely a mirror image of yourself and what you would do, is it not? That is the behavior that is acceptable, yes? He who has the power has the right, is that it? Really, that view point reveals more about you than about the atheistic argument against the existence of God.
The actual answer to my question is no. As an atheist, the concept of God has no meaning to you. Nor does the concept of universal morality, since everything relating to morals is subjective. Nor do the teachings of the Church, since to you the Church is based in fiction. The real question is what on earth is an atheist doing on a Catholic forum?
You are bored, of course. The second sin of atheism. Why be bored when you could be entertaining yourself? After all, boredom is just a lesser form of suffering to secular humanists.
There’s 2000 years of Catholic Christian history. In that time, there have been some brilliant philosophers and theologians. Maybe you should read for a bit before trying to take on a Roman Catholic Community. You would have much better luck with any protestant forum out there.
You have every opportunity to search while you are alive.
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