atheism

[rinnie]

I don’t get it? Why would god not just forgive? This is why i would never worship it even if it did exist. A creature that is not capable of forgiveness without some kind of horrific punishment involved is not wothy of my worhship. For the minute punishment is introduced it is no longer forgivness.

On top of that i really don’t see the big deal about the jesus on the cross things. It’s not like he actually sacrificed anything. If he died and stayed dead i could see the sacrifice, but he didn’t he came back to life and went back to eternal paradise.

So the story is an eternal god comes down to earth for a few years then goes back to paradise, where is the great sacrifice? He gave up nothing.

It’s like a billionare sleeping on the street for a night, then going back to his life of luxury. Would you call that a sacrifice?

If you cannot see that by getting hung on the cross and beaten and spit on a crucifed on the cross and suffering the way Christ did on the cross did not sacrifice anything, you are correct then, you will never see it.

If you are a billionare and sleep on the street for a night you would understand how lucky you are to have what you have. I would call that a sacrafice, and would hope that the one night would be enough to show him how many people he can save from that horrible night. I would hope it would be one he would never forget. So yes I can see the good in it.

What you seem to forget it is by his death and ressurrection that he saved us all from sin, and because of that death we all get to go to paradise. It if because of his death that we are forgiven. IT is by his death that he took on the sins of the world and saved us all. SO we are forgiven.

 

[rinnie]

I personally do not agree with the death penalty, so no. A child killer is very different from a homosexual also by the way. We obviously have very different morals.

Could you show me where I said that a child killer and a homosexual are the same?

 

[rinnie]

Well if you believe that, you can’t believe not killing is a moral absolute, for there are exceptions to the rule.

Why would you say that. And where did I state what I believe. I just asked a question is all.

 

[rinnie]

And someone who has lived a good life, never caused anyone any real harm, but just could not believe in something without empirical evidence is hardly a murder either.

Who said they were?

 

[Ronsatron]

Could you show me where I said that a child killer and a homosexual are the same?

You did not say they were the same, I did not say you said they were the same. You seemed to be using a bit of negative association so I was pointing out that they are very different.
If you were not, you were just asking the question, then fair enough.

 

[Charles_Darwin]

If you cannot see that by getting hung on the cross and beaten and spit on a crucifed on the cross and suffering the way Christ did on the cross did not sacrifice anything, you are correct then, you will never see it.

I can see the suffering, where is the sacrifice?

If you are a billionare and sleep on the street for a night you would understand how lucky you are to have what you have. I would call that a sacrafice,

No, that is a learning experience.

and would hope that the one night would be enough to show him how many people he can save from that horrible night. I would hope it would be one he would never forget. So yes I can see the good in it.

All depends on what he does with the experience.
**
What you seem to forget it is by his death and ressurrection that he saved us all from sin, and because of that death we all get to go to paradise. It if because of his death that we are forgiven. IT is by his death that he took on the sins of the world and saved us all. SO we are forgiven.**

This is what i mean, why does god need the punishment, the pain, the killing? Why could it just not forgive? Why does killing need to be involved?

 

[Charles_Darwin]

Who said they were?

To your god they are, to your god a murder that believes is better then a good person that doesn’t.

 

[rinnie]

To your god they are, to your god a murder that believes is better then a good person that doesn’t.

You know you seem to be very good at telling me what my God teaches. Could you please show me the scripture that is written that confirms what you just said. thanks

 

[rinnie]

If you cannot see that by getting hung on the cross and beaten and spit on a crucifed on the cross and suffering the way Christ did on the cross did not sacrifice anything, you are correct then, you will never see it.

I can see the suffering, where is the sacrifice?

If you are a billionare and sleep on the street for a night you would understand how lucky you are to have what you have. I would call that a sacrafice,

No, that is a learning experience.

and would hope that the one night would be enough to show him how many people he can save from that horrible night. I would hope it would be one he would never forget. So yes I can see the good in it.

All depends on what he does with the experience.
**
What you seem to forget it is by his death and ressurrection that he saved us all from sin, and because of that death we all get to go to paradise. It if because of his death that we are forgiven. IT is by his death that he took on the sins of the world and saved us all. SO we are forgiven.**

This is what i mean, why does god need the punishment, the pain, the killing? Why could it just not forgive? Why does killing need to be involved?

Because sin is death of the soul. Because when we sin we must repent. Repentance makes us change the way we think and live.

where does killing always have to be involved with forgiveness anyway. God never said that he said we should forgive and repent. He never told us we should kill.

Tell ya what, you kid cheats, lies and steals. Why punish him. Why not just forgive him. Why do you think that child should be punished for what he did? Or do you think you should just forgive that child time after time and not punish him?

 

[Charles_Darwin]

You know you seem to be very good at telling me what my God teaches. Could you please show me the scripture that is written that confirms what you just said. thanks

Mark 3:29 "Whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin."

So for me to deny the holy spirt is an eternal sin that never be forgiven.

 

[rinnie]

I was always taught a sacrifice is to give something up for the sake of another.

So if someone gave up their home, their bed, etc and slept on the streets for a night would they not be giving up something. Their bed, home conforts. etc?

While I agree you can learn something by giving something up. A sacrifice is still giving something up is it not? I never knew there was a time limit on a sacrifice?

 

[rinnie]

Mark 3:29 "Whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin."

So for me to deny the holy spirt is an eternal sin that never be forgiven.

But where do you get from that scripture that a person who murders is better than a good person that believes?

 

[Charles_Darwin]

Tell ya what, you kid cheats, lies and steals. Why punish him. Why not just forgive him. Why do you think that child should be punished for what he did? Or do you think you should just forgive that child time after time and not punish him?

I think the kid should be guided, but that has nothing to do with this. For god did not punish us he punished himself.

So you still have not answered the question. Why did god not just forgive our sins? Why did he need the pain and punishment and death of himself? It is utterly pointless and makes zero sense.

 

[Charles_Darwin]

But where do you get from that scripture that a person who murders is better than a good person that believes?

For that is the ONLY enternal sin, murder can be forgiven, murders can still go to heaven.

 

[rinnie]

I think the kid should be guided, but that has nothing to do with this. For god did not punish us he punished himself.

So you still have not answered the question. Why did god not just forgive our sins? Why did he need the pain and punishment and death of himself? It is utterly pointless and makes zero sense.

Sure it does. Because men could not get by without sin. So someone without sin had to come down to pay for the sins of ours. So because God is merciful and loves us he turned himself into man and paid for all of our sins because we were not capable of it. He loved us so much that he died for us. To show us how much he loved us. And by this love he took away our sin. All we must do is repent and believe.

He made it pretty easy on us. And every sin is forgiven all we have to do is ask. Where did the bible say that God will not forgive our sins. All we have to do is ask and be sorry and sin no more. He is always waiting for us to ask for forgiveness. But if we don’t ask and want to be forgiven why do you blame him?

Also good question why did Christ have to die. He didn’t have to you know. He said if this was his kingdom we would not have killed him. We killed Christ. It was our sins and us who killed him. If we would have accepted him he would never have had to die. But we could not reject sin. If so this would have been paradise. So why are you blaming God for the sins of man. All he did was pay the price because we couldn’t.

 

[rinnie]

For that is the ONLY enternal sin, murder can be forgiven, murders can still go to heaven.

You are sadly mistaken. Just because people believe in God does not mean they are getting into heaven. God never said that. You are sooooooooooo wrong. The biggest believer in Christ is the devil. Do you think he is getting in? Yeah right.

Again you quote scripture but do not know it. God never said that a murder will get into heaven before a good person who does not believe. He never said that.

God said that if you repent and confess you sin and believe you can be forgiven. But he never said just because you believe you can kill etc and get in. Again you are wroooooooooooong.

 

[rinnie]

But you are correct in one thing if you reject the HS you are not one of Christ’s and you are not getting in. That is most correct.

 

[rinnie]

So just wondering little jr steals, cheats and lies, What exactly is the guidance he is going to get from you? What would you do, and how would you guide him for what he did, and continued to do?

 

[rinnie]

To your god they are, to your god a murder that believes is better then a good person that doesn’t.

So you are saying that our God says that the devil who believes is better than a good person that doesn’t. Again you have not showed me scripture for that because there is none.

Because again the devil is a murderer and believe’s. He is one of the biggest believers and again he is not getting in. God said so!

 

[steve_b]

There are Scholars who admit that the 5 Books of Moses could very well be a fairy tale.

God can’t lie or mislead. He is complete truth. Unlike some “scholars”