atheism

[rinnie]

This is not comparing like with like. Being homosexual does not hurt people. You may say it hurts god or you as you want to ‘save them’. But guess what? There are actually people who dont believe what your church says. If you get offended then that is your issue, there is no reason to discriminate against them because of your belief, not theirs.
If there are people out there who are gay and also christian, then it is up to them how they behave.
It may surprise you but there are gay people out there (alot more than you probably think) who live very happy lives. Your religious discrimination should not be forced on them. Why not make adultery illegal? Why not make all contraception illegal?

Ron why do you keep bring up the gays all the time. No offense but its all you seem to want to talk about. You seem to be mad at God because he does not accept this kind of lifestyle.

God created women for man. Not man for man. You continue to say that being homosexual does not hurt people. I have showed you how any sin hurts people. I have showed you how the way people choose to live their life can and does effect others. You refuse to see this. If you want Catholics or any Christitans to go against the word of GOd and accept sin you can forget it.

Having gay feelings is not a sin, it can be controlled like any other sin. Just like a drunk wanted and needing a drink, but God promised us no sin can control us if we ask for his help.

If two men or women living together in a marriage was good for us God would have said so. But he make it plain that it is not. Now you can reject him all you want because he does not allow this lifestyle, but it still will not change a thing.

You know the truth, you chosse to reject the truth, deny the truth, thats your choice. But you can ramp and rage all day the truth is still the truth.

It is not my truth it is Gods truth, the truth you choose to deny. Sorry but it is what it is. We go by the word of God because we believe him to be all that is good. You choose to deny him and give you soul to the evil one. Because you either are against God or with him. You choose to be against him. Without God there is only one other place to go. There is God and there is the devil. We have our choice. No inbetween. You either live the word of God or you reject him. And when you reject him you accept the lies of the evil one. ITs really that simple.

 

[yankee_doodle]

Peter was nailed to an inverted cross in Rome. Does that sound like someone who is afraid of death?

I was talking about you (and your peers). However, I understand that’s only one element of it (btw I doubt your Peter was ever executed in Rome or anywhere else for that matter).

 

[Ronsatron]

Ron why do you keep bring up the gays all the time. No offense but its all you seem to want to talk about. You seem to be mad at God because he does not accept this kind of lifestyle.

God created women for man. Not man for man. You continue to say that being homosexual does not hurt people. I have showed you how any sin hurts people. I have showed you how the way people choose to live their life can and does effect others. You refuse to see this. If you want Catholics or any Christitans to go against the word of GOd and accept sin you can forget it.

Having gay feelings is not a sin, it can be controlled like any other sin. Just like a drunk wanted and needing a drink, but God promised us no sin can control us if we ask for his help.

If two men or women living together in a marriage was good for us God would have said so. But he make it plain that it is not. Now you can reject him all you want because he does not allow this lifestyle, but it still will not change a thing.

You know the truth, you chosse to reject the truth, deny the truth, thats your choice. But you can ramp and rage all day the truth is still the truth.

It is not my truth it is Gods truth, the truth you choose to deny. Sorry but it is what it is. We go by the word of God because we believe him to be all that is good. You choose to deny him and give you soul to the evil one. Because you either are against God or with him. You choose to be against him. Without God there is only one other place to go. There is God and there is the devil. We have our choice. No inbetween. You either live the word of God or you reject him. And when you reject him you accept the lies of the evil one. ITs really that simple.

First of all I do not reject god, nor do I know the truth you are talking about. I am not mad at god. That is like saying you are mad with Allah and you reject his truth. If you do not believe it then that does not make any difference.
The reason I bring it up is because of the discrimination that you want to impose on others. I do not see you saying that adultery should be made illegal, or using contraception etc. There are alot of things that god seems to think is wrong, but they seem to be allowed to pass by.
What did jesus actually say about homosexuality? What did jesus actually say about gay marriage?
the same point remains, you can believe whatever you like, that is your right, but when you want to force your beliefs on others is when I believe it is wrong.
You have not answered my question from before. If you think that your religious beliefs should be forced on others in the form of law discriminating against homosexuals, then would you also accept other faiths doing it? Would you welcome sahria law where you live or would you oppose it?

 

[MercyMia]

Dash - It hurts you because you have a soul, and your soul is united to Christ. Ignore all the negative posts on here and continue to ache for those who reject Him.

 

[Charles_Darwin]

What did jesus actually say about homosexuality? What did jesus actually say about gay marriage?

Yes i would like to see where jesus said it is wrong to be gay???

Also there is evidence to suggest jesus many even have been gay. Lets just say for arguments sake he was, would that in anyway change his teachings, make him any less of a person.

Its sad when one can’t see past their bigoted ways.

 

[Charles_Darwin]

Is everything here just by chance? All the miracles just elaborate hoaxes by the old senile men in Rome? All the martyrs fools for a non-existent cause. All the hate targeted toward a child-like-fantasy? 2000 yrs of ppl brainwashed? Do you really believe in nothing?

Way to reason things out… Make up straw-mans, then claim you win by default.

 

[rinnie]

First of all I do not reject god, nor do I know the truth you are talking about. I am not mad at god. That is like saying you are mad with Allah and you reject his truth. If you do not believe it then that does not make any difference.
The reason I bring it up is because of the discrimination that you want to impose on others. I do not see you saying that adultery should be made illegal, or using contraception etc. There are alot of things that god seems to think is wrong, but they seem to be allowed to pass by.
What did jesus actually say about homosexuality? What did jesus actually say about gay marriage?
the same point remains, you can believe whatever you like, that is your right, but when you want to force your beliefs on others is when I believe it is wrong.
You have not answered my question from before. If you think that your religious beliefs should be forced on others in the form of law discriminating against homosexuals, then would you also accept other faiths doing it? Would you welcome sahria law where you live or would you oppose it?

How many times can I tell you I force my faith on noone. God gave me free will God gave it to you. You either reject him or accept him. You say you do not reject him, then you accept him? You can not have it both ways.

I like God believe that this is a free world to pick and choose. If you are asking me if a Muslim should be able to worship their God as they choose I say yes. That is their choice and I do not have the right to take that away from the. Muslims are GOd fearing people. THey believe as we do that we all have one God the God of Abraham. I do welcome them and hope they can have the free will that I have to learn about Jesus Christ.

But you are tying to say that If I choose Gods law and not mans law then I am pushing my faith on others. At least that is what I believe you are trying to say. And I told you numerous of times if I choose mans law then I must choose to forego Gods law and I refuse to do this. If this country gives us the right to vote our conscience I believe we can do that. If we choose God that is our choice. If I am asked to vote on my God given right I will do that. I will not go against the word of God for anyone. SOrry that offends you in some way.

Just like I do not feel I have the right to tell a muslim how to live, they cannot tell me. BUt I believe with the grace of God we can all live together in harmony. And I believe that many many Muslims are God fearing people. I do not judge all muslims like I do not judge all Catholics, protestants etc. God said you can see the good or bad trees by the fruit they bare. There are good fruit and bad fruit in all walks of life.

This is a free country. This is the land of the free. And I love the life God has given me, the love he has showed me, and the people he has surrounded me to share it with. If he would decide to put a Muslim beside me and they would respect me I would respect them.

Just like if a couple of gays moved beside me. While I would not approve of their life style I would stiil love them for they are still Gods people. I told you before hate the sin love the sinner. And I would hope they would also love me for being a sinner and hate the sins I am sure I have also. And I would pray for them to come to the fulllness of the light, and would hope they do the same for me.

Just like I would not become a muslim, I could still learn to love and repect them for the good fruit they produce.

 

[Ronsatron]

How many times can I tell you I force my faith on noone. God gave me free will God gave it to you. You either reject him or accept him. You say you do not reject him, then you accept him? You can not have it both ways.

I like God believe that this is a free world to pick and choose. If you are asking me if a Muslim should be able to worship their God as they choose I say yes. That is their choice and I do not have the right to take that away from the. Muslims are GOd fearing people. THey believe as we do that we all have one God the God of Abraham. I do welcome them and hope they can have the free will that I have to learn about Jesus Christ.

But you are tying to say that If I choose Gods law and not mans law then I am pushing my faith on others. At least that is what I believe you are trying to say. And I told you numerous of times if I choose mans law then I must choose to forego Gods law and I refuse to do this. If this country gives us the right to vote our conscience I believe we can do that. If we choose God that is our choice. If I am asked to vote on my God given right I will do that. I will not go against the word of God for anyone. SOrry that offends you in some way.

Just like I do not feel I have the right to tell a muslim how to live, they cannot tell me. BUt I believe with the grace of God we can all live together in harmony. And I believe that many many Muslims are God fearing people. I do not judge all muslims like I do not judge all Catholics, protestants etc. God said you can see the good or bad trees by the fruit they bare. There are good fruit and bad fruit in all walks of life.

This is a free country. This is the land of the free. And I love the life God has given me, the love he has showed me, and the people he has surrounded me to share it with. If he would decide to put a Muslim beside me and they would respect me I would respect them.

Just like if a couple of gays moved beside me. While I would not approve of their life style I would stiil love them for they are still Gods people. I told you before hate the sin love the sinner. And I would hope they would also love me for being a sinner and hate the sins I am sure I have also. And I would pray for them to come to the fulllness of the light, and would hope they do the same for me.

Just like I would not become a muslim, I could still learn to love and repect them for the good fruit they produce.

You say it is a free country (except for homosexuals who should not have the same rights as you and I). The point is that you want people to live by your faith and deny them the same rights as you have based solely on their sexuality.
You have not answered my questions.
What did jesus actually say about homosexuality and gay marriage?
If you want the people to live your by laws that your faith promote, then do you also agree that sharia law shoud be passed as that is also based on another faith?

 

[rinnie]

Yes i would like to see where jesus said it is wrong to be gay???

Also there is evidence to suggest jesus many even have been gay. Lets just say for arguments sake he was, would that in anyway change his teachings, make him any less of a person.

Its sad when one can’t see past their bigoted ways.

Why you reject his word anyway. BUt here it goes

Romans 1:24

That is why God abandoned them to degrading passions, why their women have exchanged natural intercourse for unnatural practcies and the men in a similar fashon too giving up normal relations with women are consumed with passon for eachother men doing shameful things with them and receiving in themselves due reward for their perversion.

I am sure you will try to pick this apart too. But God knows what he said and he made it quite clear.

 

[rinnie]

You say it is a free country (except for homosexuals who should not have the same rights as you and I). The point is that you want people to live by your faith and deny them the same rights as you have based solely on their sexuality.
You have not answered my questions.
What did jesus actually say about homosexuality and gay marriage?
If you want the people to live your by laws that your faith promote, then do you also agree that sharia law shoud be passed as that is also based on another faith?

I showed you. Where did I say they don’t have the same rights as you and I. I see they can do everything in this world I do.

Except marriage in the eyes of God because God forbids it. God does not unite man and man women and women. He said so. He said that its perverted. Sorry.

But it does not stop them many states are allowing it. God said no, Not me. I do not make the laws of God he does. I told no trouble with the God of the Muslims. They claim that they have the God of Abraham. I told you that.

Why are you blaming me for up holding the commandments of God. He made the rules not me. God said no not me. I believe in him and agree with what he commands. Just because you don’t is not reason to discriminate against me.

 

[Ronsatron]

I showed you. Where did I say they don’t have the same rights as you and I. I see they can do everything in this world I do.

Except marriage in the eyes of God because God forbids it. God does not unite man and man women and women. He said so. He said that its perverted. Sorry.

But it does not stop them many states are allowing it. God said no, Not me. I do not make the laws of God he does. I told no trouble with the God of the Muslims. They claim that they have the God of Abraham. I told you that.

Why are you blaming me for up holding the commandments of God. He made the rules not me. God said no not me. I believe in him and agree with what he commands. Just because you don’t is not reason to discriminate against me.

Is it not obvious where you say they do not have the same rights? You have just said that they should not be allowed to marry.
You have also said before that you do not think we should follow the word of god as god says to stone them to death, so you cannot have it both ways. You reject the word of god in one area, but not in another.
Just so it is clear, you would not have an issue living under sharia law?

 

[josie_L]

You say it is a free country (except for homosexuals who should not have the same rights as you and I). The point is that you want people to live by your faith and deny them the same rights as you have based solely on their sexuality.
You have not answered my questions.
What did jesus actually say about homosexuality and gay marriage?
If you want the people to live your by laws that your faith promote, then do you also agree that sharia law shoud be passed as that is also based on another faith?

Well Jesus was a practicing/loyal Jew so I think it’s pretty obvious what he thought about homosexuality. Gays furthermore don’t need the rights which come with marriage which can come from civil unions just as easily if governments were willing to give them these rights. What I object to is their use of the word “marriage” for their union, so it’s not like Christians are refusing them any kind of union just not the kind that would be refered to as marriage. That is not me imposing anything on anyone, but rather a majority who recognizes the value and sanctity of marriage which they refuse to see diminished by a minority wishing to impose their views/understanding of it on us. SO SPARE ME THE C.R.A.P ABOUT US IMPOSING OUR BELIEFS ON SOCIETY WHEN IT"S ACTUALLY THE OTHER WAY AROUND. Government has no right to redefine marriage, this is not their job, what they should be doing is giving these gays their rights within the confines of a civil union rather than marriage.

 

[josie_L]

Yes i would like to see where jesus said it is wrong to be gay???

Also there is evidence to suggest jesus many even have been gay. Lets just say for arguments sake he was, would that in anyway change his teachings, make him any less of a person.

Its sad when one can’t see past their bigoted ways.

I think you’ve been watching “Family Guy” a bit too much. Jesus was an observant Jew and therefore loyal to his faith, those that followed him made sure to impart his teachings to others, this included the immorality of homosexuality. Have you ever read the New Testament Charles?

 

[Convert66]

Originally Posted by Charles Darwin forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_khaki/viewpost.gif Yes i would like to see where Jesus said it was wrong to be gay???

Would you make the same argument for pedophiles? Jesus never said anything (recorded, that is) about pederasty either. Maybe we should allow the UFC fighters to battle to the death, since Jesus didn’t explicitly condemn the Roman circus.

Besides that, you and I both know that if Jesus had explicitly said that homosexuality was a sin then you would summarily dismiss Him, and sin, as a myth.

Originally Posted by Ronsatron forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_khaki/viewpost.gif
You say it is a free country ( except for homosexuals that do not have the same rights as you and I).

You went on to say that opposition to gay marriage is premised upon the Christian faith (which is patently untrue), so can you point me to a single pre-Christian pagan society that legalized homosexual marriage?

The fact is that homosexuals enjoy the same rights as you and I in the form of civil unions (which is what every heterosexual Marriage in the US amounts to unless it is a Catholic Sacrament). If they do not enjoy that right, then they should. It is immoral to say that homosexual partners can’t pass on inheritances, or insurance coverages (although this is a financial issue related to risk assessment in charging premiums) or see their partners in a hospital because they aren’t immediate family. Those issues we can agree on. Where we collide is in the imposition of homosexual morality into the definition of marriage–which is and always has been a religious insitution established around child-rearing. Homosexuals wish to reduce the meaning of marriage to coupling, that is, solely about sexuality. That is an imposition of morality upon a previously existing religious institution (as old as civilization).

And we know that the ultimate goal is to restrict religions from exercising their religion free of government intrusion (contra-1st amendment) by forcing religious institutions to endorse homosexual “marriage” and refrain from moral teaching on the subject of sexuality at all, and if not, to face sanction from secular authority.

The imposition of morality is coming from the pro-gay marriage crowd. Not the other way around.

All my best . . .

 

[authenticity]

I was talking about you (and your peers). However, I understand that’s only one element of it (btw I doubt your Peter was ever executed in Rome or anywhere else for that matter).

My point is that I’m not sorry for my sins because I fear hell and desire heaven-- this is called imperfect contrition. I’m sorry because it offends God and I love God. Whatever my fate is would be justified because God is just. So you are wrong. My faith is not based on fear of death. I use myself here as an example because unless you are a solipsist, you can not prove that I don’t exist-- unlike Peter or Christ.

 

[Charles_Darwin]

I think you’ve been watching “Family Guy” a bit too much. Jesus was an observant Jew and therefore loyal to his faith, those that followed him made sure to impart his teachings to others, this included the immorality of homosexuality. Have you ever read the New Testament Charles?

Don’t watch family guy so you have lost me with that one?

Yes i have read some of it, when i went to school we still had religion forced on us. Thankfully that has now changed in Scotland.

 

[Charles_Darwin]

Would you make the same argument for pedophiles? Jesus never said anything (recorded, that is) about pederasty either. Maybe we should allow the UFC fighters to battle to the death, since Jesus didn’t explicitly condemn the Roman circus.
.

Are you really comparing homosexuals to pedophiles???

Oh and lets not forget the fine moral stance the catholic church, including the pope, took against pedophilia.

 

[Convert66]

Charles,

Stop the evasion tactics. I know it is difficult to look beyond your dogmatic beliefs, but you should at least try.

The comparison was not between homosexuals and pedophiles, but a reductio of your absurd objection. I notice you did not accuse me of comparing homosexuals to UFC fighters or gladiators.:dts:

Oh and lets not forget the fine moral stance the catholic church, including the pope, took against pedophilia.

The Church has always had the same stance on pedophilia as it has had on homosexuality, adultery or fornication. It is a grave sin. Surely you already knew this, but I suppose that when you are grasping, any straw man will do.

All my best . . .

 

[steve_b]

I doubt your Peter was ever executed in Rome or anywhere else for that matter).

1000 doubts don’t invalidate the truth that Peter died in Rome.

 

[josie_L]

You went on to say that opposition to gay marriage is premised upon the Christian faith (which is patently untrue), so can you point me to a single pre-Christian pagan society that legalized homosexual marriage?

The fact is that homosexuals enjoy the same rights as you and I in the form of civil unions (which is what every heterosexual Marriage in the US amounts to unless it is a Catholic Sacrament). If they do not enjoy that right, then they should. It is immoral to say that homosexual partners can’t pass on inheritances, or insurance coverages (although this is a financial issue related to risk assessment in charging premiums) or see their partners in a hospital because they aren’t immediate family. Those issues we can agree on. Where we collide is in the imposition of homosexual morality into the definition of marriage–which is and always has been a religious insitution established around child-rearing. Homosexuals wish to reduce the meaning of marriage to coupling, that is, solely about sexuality. That is an imposition of morality upon a previously existing religious institution (as old as civilization).

And we know that the ultimate goal is to restrict religions from exercising their religion free of government intrusion (contra-1st amendment) by forcing religious institutions to endorse homosexual “marriage” and refrain from moral teaching on the subject of sexuality at all, and if not, to face sanction from secular authority.

Actually I believe that secular authorities wish to restrict (even do away with religious influence) religious institutions in all social spheres where they are presently active. Look at the threat Catholic hospitals face if President Obama enforces all medical institutions to accept abortion on their premises. Or the Catholic adoption agencies that are closing down because they can’t refuse gay couples, or parents who are being admonished for home-schooling their children (while in some countries like Germany it is illegal). It is ridiculous for anyone to say we are trying to impose our beliefs (with the exception of the YEC crowd) when it is they the secular authorities/advocates who are blurring the lines between Church and State.

The imposition of morality is coming from the pro-gay marriage crowd. Not the other way around.