Atheist friends?

[AlbertBall]

in question should approach the atheist friends and say something like:

“I think all of you are quite unattractive physically. I find all of your favorite bands to be harsh and unpleasant to listen to. I actively support the biggest rivals of all the teams you support. Also, you all have really bad hair.”

If the atheists remain as moral and sincere as before when faced with this merciless verbal abuse, then I think they are worthy friends. However, if they all morph into soul-stealing succubi I would advise the poster to sever ties with them immediately. I should stress that this holds especially true if the transformation literally happens.

Good luck with your dillema.

Yeah because its common knowledge that atheists fly into a blind rage if you call their favorite band unpleasant. I know that i have personally killed 7 people for such a slur!!!

 

[AlbertBall]

I have a bunch of friends who are atheists, and they’re all really cool except for the fact that they don’t believe in God. Or Jesus. Or the Virgin Mary. My mom says I should sever ties with them, but I really like them, so is it a sin to keep them around?

I think you need to sit your mother down and have a discussion with her about the obtuseness of bigotry. Please don’t let this shallow minded outlook warp your mind, take people for what they are. Good people are good people regardless, this sort of bigotry does not do anybody any good. It is refreshing to see 90% of the forum fighting this. I pity the other 10%.

 

[ethical_honesty]

Yeah because its common knowledge that atheists fly into a blind rage if you call their favorite band unpleasant. I know that i have personally killed 7 people for such a slur!!!

Haha, ok I assume you know I was making a joke? I thought I made it obvious! I talked about the friends literally turning into succubi! Jeez if I’d known so many people were going to take me seriously I would have made more of an effort.

 

[spn82756]

I have a bunch of friends who are atheists, and they’re all really cool except for the fact that they don’t believe in God. Or Jesus. Or the Virgin Mary. My mom says I should sever ties with them, but I really like them, so is it a sin to keep them around?

Perhaps you can be the influence that turns them to God. You don’t have to preach. Just act. That will show your faith and perhaps lead them to God.

 

[OraLabora]

Perhaps you can be the influence that turns them to God. You don’t have to preach. Just act. That will show your faith and perhaps lead them to God.

This is a very good suggestion. As a Benedictine, we tend to preach by example, not proselytizing.

I can relate a little anecdote. I pray the Liturgy of the Hours regularly. At my previous place of employment, I was typically one of the first or second people to arrive in the morning, usually at around 6:45 or 7 am depending on traffic. I would quietly read Lauds from my breviary for a few moments before starting work.

Two years later I resigned from that position to take up another opportunity. On my last day, one of my colleagues, also an early bird and roughly my age, came to see me to wish me well in my new job. He also commented “you know it really encouraged me to see you quietly reading your prayers every morning, it gave me renewed hope for the world”.

Here was a very private act that suddenly had a very public impact, without even trying, as I would quietly read Lauds from the privacy of my cube while my laptop would boot up (thanks to Windoze and its slow boot up…). It did not go unnoticed.

Eventually you may find that you pique people’s curiosity. They may ask things like “how do you stay so cool and level headed when under stress”, or “I noticed you sneaking a prayer in the morning, is that how you remain so cool under stress?”

I also had one comment “I saw your Bible on your bookshelf the day you started working here and I thought ‘oh no not one of those’, but now I realize you’re not what I came to expect out of someone with a Bible on his shelf, you never preach to us and you’re a genuinely likable guy and fun to work with”. I was quite touched by that comment actually. Why? Because so much evangelizing can “turn off” people, and I helped, perhaps in a small way, make someone realize that being spiritual and religious did not mean acting like a deluded fool but was instead a respectable life choice, one may be worth exploring.

Of course I realize that I am a mature adult. A teen may be a different story, but perhaps the right approach is to coach and instruct our teens to deal with these situations, rather than just say “don’t hang out with them because they are not like us”. IMHO, that teaches precisely the wrong thing. Someday the teen will have no choice but to work with people with other beliefs. He will have unfortunately learned a message of bigotry and thus be possibly handicapped in his interactions with them. Overcoming prejudices isn’t easy. It’s best not to instill them at an early age.

 

[tjm190]

I checked out your profile to see what sort of person could say such a foolish thing. You are apparently a dissident Catholic. ‘nuff said.

As fun as someone calling something foolish with no justification, I think sharing your reasoning would be wise, unless you want the accusation of foolishness to be turned around.

Do you reject that we should not disregard immoral commands, that Christ made a point to dine with sinners and tax collectors, or that purposely doing the opposite of what Jesus would do is immoral?

 

[j1akey]

There seems to be alot of fear in this thread about hanging out with or being friends with and alot of “those people” type of talk in this thread when it comes to atheists. It’s like we’re leppers or something. I really don’t understand this because it seems bigoted and close minded to me. People are people, who cares if they don’t believe in the same things.

 

[Newbie2]

There seems to be alot of fear in this thread about hanging out with or being friends with and alot of “those people” type of talk in this thread when it comes to atheists. It’s like we’re leppers or something. I really don’t understand this because it seems bigoted and close minded to me. People are people, who cares if they don’t believe in the same things.

If we’re talking about an adult or older child, then perhaps mom is being overly cautious.

However, consider three things;

First that a child can be very impressionable. Mom knows her kid(s) better than anyone, probably even dad. It would seem in this scenario that we’ve been discussing that mom is concerned that her kid is impressionable to the point of risking his faith.

Second, that a parent of a minor child (if this is the case) has every right to screen their friends and decide which influences she allows her kid(s) that her child(ren) get exposed to.

Third, and this may be difficult for an athiest to understand, but one’s faith is the most important thing on one’s life. There is no exception. When it comes to the risk of losing one’s faith or causing doubt or weaking one’s child’s faith, one cannot afford to take any sort of risk, and apparently mom thinks that hanging out with those who do not share that faith is a risk.

So for people of faith, faith is a matter that eclipses all else; eclipses the appearance of “bigotry” or “close-mindedness” or whatever else one chooses to label this particular mother’s wishes.

Now that being said, it’s entirely possible that her kid may have a positive influence on (his) athiest friends, sharing his faith with them. She may be overprotective; we don’t know, there’s not enough information given.

When you say “people are people, who cares if they don’t believe in the same things”, it’s obvious that you’ve never raised kids. There are many influences besides atheism out there i.e. “different things” that parents do not want and have every right to keep their children from, and parents would be negligent if they didn’t.

Who cares? Good parents care.

Of course this argument could be turned backwards by claiming that if one kept their kids from associating from other kids of different races, that would be racist. Of course it would. But we’re talking about beliefs, not physical appearances or cultural differences.

 

[crazzeto]

I have many Athiest friends, I pray for them and always do my best to promote the faith in whatever way I can…

 

[j1akey]

Newbie2:

If we’re talking about an adult or older child, then perhaps mom is being overly cautious.

However, consider three things;

First that a child can be very impressionable. Mom knows her kid(s) better than anyone, probably even dad. It would seem in this scenario that we’ve been discussing that mom is concerned that her kid is impressionable to the point of risking his faith.

I would make the counter arguement that kids need to experience life as it comes. While I do agree that parents need “screen” the people their children associate with, in my experience this has been pretty limited to making sure they’re not hanging out with drug dealers or gang members or other kids that are going to get them in trouble.

Third, and this may be difficult for an athiest to understand, but one’s faith is the most important thing on one’s life. There is no exception. When it comes to the risk of losing one’s faith or causing doubt or weaking one’s child’s faith, one cannot afford to take any sort of risk, and apparently mom thinks that hanging out with those who do not share that faith is a risk.

You’re absolutely right, I don’t understand this. Actually I should rephrase that, what I think about how the universe works is pretty important to me but it’s not the most important thing in my life. In my mind I would think the most important thing would be providing for your family if you have one or putting food on the table. Faith doesn’t provide a place to live or food to eat but that doesn’t have anything to do with the point I was trying to make either way.

On a side note that has nothing to do with this topic but kind of gets to faith being the most important thing in someones life, my brother has sort of made this arguement to me as well. He’s dirt poor, just had a child, the town he lives in offers no opportunity to be able to financially provide a better life for his child or wife but he refuses to even entertain the notion of moving to an area that might provide a better life for his family of which he is the sole providor because he likes the church that he goes to. This completely blows my mind.

Anyway, back to the original conversation.

When you say “people are people, who cares if they don’t believe in the same things”, it’s obvious that you’ve never raised kids. There are many influences besides atheism out there i.e. “different things” that parents do not want and have every right to keep their children from, and parents would be negligent if they didn’t.

Who cares? Good parents care.

When I wrote the original reply I wasn’t really referring to a mothers choice of what she and what can’t do since it’s obviously none of my business. And yes of course good parents care. What I was referring to was the general sense of the hostility that I got against non-chritians/catholics in general. A kid is eventaully going to grow up and encounter people from all walks of life. Shielding a kid from everyone except christians is no preparing him deal with others.

Of course this argument could be turned backwards by claiming that if one kept their kids from associating from other kids of different races, that would be racist. Of course it would. But we’re talking about beliefs, not physical appearances or cultural differences.

Well, actually beliefs are a part of what makes up a culture so yeah you are talking about cultural differences and while it may not be racism in the historical sense of the word, the though process is still the same. There was a time not long ago that parents didn’t want their kids associating with other black kids. This is the same thing. I’m also not convinced that anyones faith would be at risk from any other kids. Kids that are young enough where they can’t make up their own minds yet about anything generally don’t know any better anyway. I grew up with jewish, christian, catholic and even a couple muslim friends and they sure didn’t make any kind of religious impression on me and nor did I on them. Kids that young don’t even know any better, they just want to play video games or football and go out and have a good time. If the kid isn’t breaking any laws or getting into trouble then just let him be.

Also I’m kind of leary that the person in the thread is a kid. If he is then he’s probably at least a teenager and capable of personal thought about the subject and therefore old enough to decide who he can hang out with.

I don’t know a single person that really gave a damn about their faith until they were an adult or close to it, at least old enough to decide what’s good for them. When my parents would make me go to church, I didn’t know any better, I wasn’t old enough to actually think about that sort of thing because I believed everything everyone told me. “There’s a god? OK i’m 10 so I’ll believe you.” And that’s the way it went with me until I was old enough to actually think about things.

 

[Newbie2]

I would make the counter arguement that kids need to experience life as it comes. While I do agree that parents need “screen” the people their children associate with, in my experience this has been pretty limited to making sure they’re not hanging out with drug dealers or gang members or other kids that are going to get them in trouble.

Well, “experiencing life as it comes” and shielding kids from drug dealers and what not are two quite different things, no? And no, we aren’t comparing athiests and drug dealers, right?

When I wrote the original reply I wasn’t really referring to a mothers choice of what she and what can’t do since it’s obviously none of my business. And yes of course good parents care. What I was referring to was the general sense of the hostility that I got against non-chritians/catholics in general.

And that shouldn’t be the case, i.e. any sort of “hostility”.

A kid is eventaully going to grow up and encounter people from all walks of life. Shielding a kid from everyone except christians is no preparing him deal with others.

Depends on the kid. Some kids are overly impressionable and would follow their friends whever the wind blows them. I would agree that there is a time and place for shielding, again depending on the personality and makeup of the individual, if that’s what you’re saying.

Also I’m kind of leary that the person in the thread is a kid. If he is then he’s probably at least a teenager and capable of personal thought about the subject and therefore old enough to decide who he can hang out with.

Maybe, maybe not. We weren’t given that information.

I don’t know a single person that really gave a damn about their faith until they were an adult or close to it, at least old enough to decide what’s good for them.

Really? Wow. I had the opposite experience; most everyone that I knew growing up with, or at least hung out with, is still a person of faith, having been so ever since I knew them as teenagers.

 

[AlbertBall]

First that a child can be very impressionable. Mom knows her kid(s) better than anyone, probably even dad. It would seem in this scenario that we’ve been discussing that mom is concerned that her kid is impressionable to the point of risking his faith.

Second, that a parent of a minor child (if this is the case) has every right to screen their friends and decide which influences she allows her kid(s) that her child(ren) get exposed to.

Third, and this may be difficult for an atheist to understand, but one’s faith is the most important thing on one’s life. There is no exception. When it comes to the risk of losing one’s faith or causing doubt or weaking one’s child’s faith, one cannot afford to take any sort of risk, and apparently mom thinks that hanging out with those who do not share that faith is a risk.

Yes but were not talking about the mothers faith we are talking about the kids. The kid should have a right to choose (when they are at an age when they are capable of course). Sounds to me your like you want to make sure the kid is fully indoctrinated before sending it off into the big bad world.

Oh and lets be realistic, where talking about kids. Do you really think a five year old kid is going to say “Right! Before we go make a tree house i would just like every christian here to justify their faith!!!”

 

[Newbie2]

Yes but were not talking about the mothers faith we are talking about the kids. The kid should have a right to choose (when they are at an age when they are capable of course).

Well, that’s part of the equasion, isn’t it? What is that age for a particular kid? Mom knows that best.

Sounds to me your like you want to make sure the kid is fully indoctrinated before sending it off into the big bad world.

Duh. Who in their right mind wouldn’t want their kid fully prepared when they go off on their own? I’d consider it “educated”, not “indoctrinated”.

Oh and lets be realistic, where talking about kids. Do you really think a five year old kid is going to say “Right! Before we go make a tree house i would just like every christian here to justify their faith!!!”

 

[AlbertBall]

Newbie2:
I don’t agree. Kids should not be subjected to belief systems. Wait until they are 16 (adult age) then they can decide. But that would be too late eh?

It is not education, it is indoctrination. Would you consider it education if your kid was to have islam forced on them? I doubt it.

“Indoctrination is instruction in the fundamentals of a system of belief* (such as a philosophy or religion)*.”

 

[chessmane4e5]

I don’t agree. Kids should not be subjected to belief systems. Wait until they are 16 (adult age) then they can decide. But that would be too late eh?

It is not education, it is indoctrination. Would you consider it education if your kid was to have islam forced on them? I doubt it.

“Indoctrination is instruction in the fundamentals of a system of belief* (such as a philosophy or religion)*.”

But others are saying that kids should be taught the philosophy of accepting people no matter what their beliefs. So this is indoctrination too.

I would rather indoctrinate my kids with Catholicism (which is what I think is right) then let the world indoctrinate them.

 

[OraLabora]

My understanding is that it’s a duty to raise them in the faith.

But the CCC and other documents are very quiet about whether it is a duty to isolate them from other beliefs.

 

[Seamus619]

I have a small number of Atheist friends as well. And they know that I am a Catholic, they know what I believe in, and they are good enough people to respect my beliefs and not try and bring me over to their belief. We do not share religious beliefs, but they still in my eyes good people who have the capability to change, which I pray for them to do. All I can say is, if they respect you and your beliefs and do not talk down about your religion to you, or try to make you change beliefs, just be a good person and be their friend. And pray for them to find God.

 

[chessmane4e5]

I live in the North Carolina (not quite the Bible Belt, but close enough).

All of my friends (and my wife’s) are non-Catholic Christians. We used to do Bible Study with them ( it was actually the leaders that wanted to stop because they wanted a different direction for the group).

It is difficult to put in words. It was not like they directly knocked Catholicism, but my wife and I always felt “weird” (again, I can’t describe it).

Maybe it was us, and not them. Maybe it was them, but not everyone is like them.

I think there is something for what St Paul said (he was talking about Pagans): “Therefore do not associate with them.” Eph 5:7

Now I know he is talking about Pagan and he is saying this because they are of the darkness but the Ephesians are now of the Light. But, there were also no other Christians at the time of Paul. I could imagine him writing letters today saying not to associate with non-Catholics. I know this seems harsh, but the Devil does want to pull us away from the Catholic faith.

saint-mike.org/warfare/library/wp-content/docs/secret.pdf

 

[Magdalena09]

I don’t agree. Kids should not be subjected to belief systems. Wait until they are 16 (adult age) then they can decide. But that would be too late eh?

It is not education, it is indoctrination. Would you consider it education if your kid was to have islam forced on them? I doubt it.

“Indoctrination is instruction in the fundamentals of a system of belief* (such as a philosophy or religion)*.”

If you’re going to quote something it’s good to also cite your source.

Raising your children in the faith you are is a completely logical. Personally I think anyone who wouldn’t raise their children up in their own faith must not really believe it.

To say that children “should not be subjected to belief systems” until they are X years old is ridiculous. Everyone lives their life by a system of beliefs whether it has an official label or not. If my child makes a racist comment and I correct them and explain to them why racism is wrong, guess what… that’s my belief and part of my belief system, but it isn’t a part of everyone’s.

Truth stands on it’s own and if people are seeking the Truth they will find it.

 

[AlbertBall]

I have a small number of Atheist friends as well. And they know that I am a Catholic, they know what I believe in, and they are good enough people to respect my beliefs and not try and bring me over to their belief. We do not share religious beliefs, but they still in my eyes good people who have the** capability to change,** which I pray for them to do. All I can say is, if they respect you and your beliefs and do not talk down about your religion to you, or try to make you change beliefs, just be a good person and be their friend. And pray for them to find God.

If they are good people then you should just accept them for what they are, why on earth should they change?